Putting Bi-Wiring to rest.

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	Thread	Last Poster	Posts	Last Post
	Archive through October 17, 2010	Jan Vigne	100	2010-10-18 01:15

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Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15369 Registered: May-04	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 01:19 GMT . "Bi-wiring is mostly about time correction." It has nothing to do with "time correction". "Highs travel faster than lows, so the wire for the midrange & tweeter is longer than the one for the woofer and the mid/tweeter wire is wrapped around the woofer wire." "Remember, there is no time correction at a concert." .
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15370 Registered: May-04	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 01:22 GMT . "I have a plethora of electrical properties available to me through Nasa JP Labs, the NRC and maybe the library of professional congress, but lets forget that, and see how the speed of electrons varies in any useful way to frequencies or bandwidths that are audible." Comtemporary theory suggests no "electrons" move since there is only one electron involved. I'll see if I can find that link. .
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15371 Registered: May-04	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 01:28 GMT . "You know how if you suck helium out of a balloon your voice is higher pitched for a few seconds? That's because helium moves faster than air!" Ain't got a thing to do with wires or how speakers reproduce frequencies even after correcting for your misstatement. .
superjazzyJa(me)s Bronze Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 31 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 16:50 GMT Congratulations Jan! You've done the impossible! Just when I didn't think it was possible to have any less respect for you, you post another barrage of long winded non-sense and miss information. Again, explaining your poor excuses for points in a demeaning manner. The point about the helium is to explain to your blind drunk little supporter what happens when the speed of sound waves is changed. If speed them up as with helium, you'll increase the frequency. If slow them down, you'll decrease the frequency. Bi-wiring is absolutely, positively all about time correction and always has been. The sales rep in the high end store showed me a display of bi-wiring cable, a display made by the wire manufacturer, which showed the cable cross sectioned so you can see the mid/tweeter wire wrapped around the woofer wire. The company that made the wire (Monster, I think) explains in the write up the hows and whys of bi-wiring. This includes making the signal arrive later at the mids & tweeters in hopes that it will arrive at your ears at the same time as the bass. High frequncy sound waves DO travel THROUGH THE AIR faster than low frequency sound waves. My point in pointing out that there is no time correction at a concert was to make everyone aware that since there is no way to do this live, bi-wiring your speakers may not sound natural. Hey Jan, why don't try gaining some practical knowledge some time. It would do you a world of good.
Nuck Platinum Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 15479 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 17:35 GMT no time for sj now, I have to fly out of QC as fastas I can, before some other peon, tries to make a point that is easily de-structured with some real sense and experience. Later losers, you can eat the sh!t that Jan feeds you, if either of you ever own an analogue meter and a book. Start with the book, I have read enough.
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15374 Registered: May-04	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 17:39 GMT . "The point about the helium is to explain to your blind drunk little supporter what happens when the speed of sound waves is changed. If speed them up as with helium, you'll increase the frequency. If slow them down, you'll decrease the frequency." The "point" about helium still has nothing to do with biwiring or about how speakers reproduce frequencies. The driver's diaphragm can only be driven at the rate of input determined by the signal frequency and the amplifier's input to the speaker system. Any time or phase anomalies which occur within the speaker cannot be corrected by any piece of wire - and they have nothing to do with helium. The "speed" with which higher and lower frequencies travel though "air" will be determined by factors such as density related to humidity or temperature. Sucking helium has nothing to do with that. Electrons travel - if they travel at all - at a set rate of speed. Cable manufacturers have for several decades proposed multi-gauge stranding more for reasons of skin effect that anything else. This too has nothing to do with sucking helium nor does it have anything to do with the speed or frequency of the compression/rarefaction component of sound. "Bi-wiring is absolutely, positively all about time correction and always has been." Prove it, show me the cable manufacturer who claims biwiring is all about time correction. Then show me another cable company who agrees with that theory. This idea of certain electrons determined by frequency moving faster within a certain gauge of cable has been around for awhile but most designers discount this as so much hoooey. Because a sales rep told you something, you take it as fact? I'm not denying a cable company might try this line of reasoning and I'm not denying a sales rep might try that line on someone - most audio sales reps don't know very much that's why they're reps and not salespeople, but biwiring is not all about time correction. Ask Plymouth. In the meantime, if biwiring is all about time correction, why do speaker designers of biwirable systems compensate for time by building slanted cabinets? Does this cable manufacturer also have a similar construction to their single wire cables? That would imply biring is not all about time, wouldn't it? You do understand that various filter types employed in speaker systems have a "built in" time element to their effect, right? Time and polarity actually. If you have compensated for "time" with your cables and then also with your speaker's construction and/or filter action, and yet "speed" is determined in your room by the density of the air, how do you have any idea whether those frequencies are arriviig at your ear in sych? And, should the signals be out of phase between low and high frequency components, what would that do to the step response of the speaker system? Wouldn't out of phase signals reaching your ear at the same instant cancel each other out? If the music contains all frequencies above 20Hz and extending out into infinity - or just to the 100kHz point for simplicity - to capture the "natural" harmonics of the instruments, how many divisions would be necessary in the cable's time correction/gauge change to accurately move each band of "frequency electrons" along at the proper speed? Two divisions? Five divisions? If only two divisions, what happens to these higher frequnecies which would need an even longer cable run to be all about timing? If the cable is only divided into two sections, what happens if you have a three way speaker? What if you move farther away or closer to the speaker? Wouldn't that screw up the "time" element of "making the signal arrive later at the mids & tweeters in hopes that it will arrive at your ears at the same time as the bass"? So all this talk of "time" and "speed" is only right if you are sitting "X" distance from "X" speaker. Right? If you have a different speaker or you move to another listening distance, everything goes out the window. No? How much of the direct sound component of the speaker's output do you suppose you hear vs how much is the reflected sound from the room boundaries which account for first, second, third, fourth and fifth reflection arrivals? If the reflections are constantly further and further out of "time" with the direct radiation pattern of the speaker, what does that do to the time and speed of frequencies? What if you had a bipolar radiator - one that was biwirable? Then you'd have only 50% of the signal being directed toward your listening position at best and only if you were sitting about three feet in front of the speaker. All the rest of the main radiation would be to the rear of the speaker and would be reflected off the front wall before it arrived at your ear. That could be a lot of time between direct and reflected arrival times. But the speaker - like leo's panels - are still biwirable. Do you understand the issues here? So, if you have a biwirable, three way time and phase "corrected" bipolar speaker system employing third order Butterworth filters in the crossovers with a vented enclosure (where you are hearing the out of phase back wave of the low frequency driver and the group delay of the system), what happens to biwirable time and speed if you move your chair three feet further away from the speaker? What happens if you didn't buy the cable manufacturer's product to compensate for the "speed" of the high frequencies? "My point in pointing out that there is no time correction at a concert was to make everyone aware that since there is no way to do this live, bi-wiring your speakers may not sound natural." The silliness of your comment is that "time" is hardly of real consideration in any multi-mic recording. If time were the only thing to consider, then most of our problems would be solved. And biwiring "may not sound natural" is of even higher absurdity. "Hey Jan, why don't try gaining some practical knowledge some time. It would do you a world of good." And where would you suggest I go to get an education just like yours, James? .
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15375 Registered: May-04	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 19:08 GMT . James, before you once again start complaining about once again being faced with logical questions which you should have had the smarts to ask the sales rep trying to 'splain this BS, try this. In a biwiring set up no matter how you make your connection to the amplifier, you're going to find a full range signal being output. In your specially wound cable which compenstates for the "speed" of the electrons how is that "speed" determined? Aren't electrons just sub atomic particles without any motive force of their own? If all the individual conductors within the cable connect to one full range output from the amplifier at one point, what makes just the "high frequency" electrons travel along only the longer cable? Is the electron being smart or what? Are "high frequency" electrons smaller than "low frequency" electrons? What about "midrange electrons"? How big are they? What would happen should a "rogue" low frequency electron jump onto the longer conductor? Or vice versa? I'd appreciate you dispensing just a small amount of your vast knowledge to answer those questions, James. They have been vexing me ever since Monster introduced multi-gauge counductors in a single cable way back in the 1980's. Thanks a bunch for the help. .
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15376 Registered: May-04	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 20:26 GMT . "How electrons travel through wire" "Comtemporary theory suggests no "electrons" move since there is only one electron involved. I'll see if I can find that link." " We are told, by physicists, that electricity travels the same exact speed, through a wire, that light travels through a vacuum (the famous speed c). There are two problems with that, aren't there? Electricity is the flow of electrons. Electrons have mass. Relativity says that things with mass cannot travel at the speed c. Only things with no mass (zero rest mass) can (and must) travel at c. Even light cannot travel at c, when it is travelling through other substances. Light slows down, to travel through glass, water, or air. So, how can electrons travel at c, through copper? Well, it turns out that physicists are right; electricity does travel at c. Also, electrons do not travel anywhere near c, within a wire. Electricity travels at c, while electrons do not. ... when an electron enters one end of the wire, an electron leaves the other end of the wire. This effect takes place at the speed of light ©. But, they were not the same electron. A different electron exited the wire." http://www.jimloy.com/physics/electric.htm "The actual velocity of electrons through a conductor is measured as an average speed called drift speed. This is because individual electrons do not continue through the conductor in straight line paths, but instead they move in a random zig-zag motion, changing directions as they collide with atoms in the conductor. Thus, the actual drift speed of these electrons through the conductor is very small in the direction of current. For example, the drift speed through a copper wire of cross-sectional area 3.00 x 10-6 m2, with a current of 10 A will be approximately 2.5 x 10-4 m/s or about a quarter of a milimeter per second. So how does an electrical device turn on near instantaneously? If you think of a copper wire as a pipe completely filled with water, then forcing a drop of water in one end will result in a drop at the other end being pushed out very quickly. This is analogous to initiating an electric field in a conductor." http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae69.cfm So, does that muddy the water some? Electrons do not "travel" a straight continuous path from the input of the cable to the output of the cable. The electron which enters the cable is not the same electron which is leaving the cable at the output side. Therefore, we need concern ourself with only one electron at a time. Now, in the question of "frequency selective" electrons moving through a cable, the concept is wrong to begin with. A single electron does not travel through the cable until it reaches the opposite end at the speed of light or even the speed of electricity. A single electron enters the cable (pipe) at the input end which in turn "bumps" the electron waiting at the output end of the cable out of the "pipe". That electron has been waiting its turn for quite some time if you consider "the drift speed through a copper wire of cross-sectional area 3.00 x 10-6 m2, with a current of 10 A will be approximately 2.5 x 10-4 m/s or about a quarter of a milimeter per second." That's at 10 Amps! Next question then, James, how does the electron leaving the output end of the cable recognize the "frequency" of the electron which entered the cable? I'm hoping you can help me out with all this, guy. .
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3434 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 20:50 GMT These threads make my head hurt. Having the option to Bi-Amp is nice, but I very rarely if ever come across anyone who does this; why? Bi-Amping undoubtably has its benefits? I for one cannot accept bi-wiring as valid, A: because it doesn't make any sence to me, and B: I cannot hear a lick of difference when used.
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15176 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 21:33 GMT Christopher There is no doubt that bi-wiring is better but how is the difference? If you use very good wires then only 6 feets the difference will be hard to see but if you use 20 feets you will see the difference. Many systems can't demonstrate the difference because they sound very good but are not very analytic.
David Mitchell Gold Member Username: Dmitchell Ottawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4344 Registered: Feb-07	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 21:36 GMT "There is no doubt that bi-wiring is better..." I still have doubt.
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15177 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 21:39 GMT David Why?
David Mitchell Gold Member Username: Dmitchell Ottawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4345 Registered: Feb-07	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 21:53 GMT Because I've tried it on multiple occasions (even on analytical gear) and hear no difference whatsoever. Besides that, the notion of how 2 lengths of wire coming from the amp can differ that significantly from a piece of speaker wire operating as a jumper.
Chris H Gold Member Username: Hawkbilly Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1046 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 23:26 GMT "Many systems can't demonstrate the difference because they sound very good but are not very analytic." You're a piece of work. Ok guys, everyone over to Plymouths so we can hear what a REAL system sounds like. For cryin' out loud Plymouth, how condescending can you be ? You want everyone to take your word as gospel, but if someone relays a differing experience you immediately blame their wire or the gear they use, without knowing sh!t about either. Nice. Very nice.
Chris H Gold Member Username: Hawkbilly Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1047 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 23:28 GMT As general rule, I'd rather have a system that sounds "very good" than one that sounds "analytical". You know, one that music sounds good on.
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3438 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 23:40 GMT "There is no doubt that bi-wiring is better but how is the difference? If you use very good wires then only 6 feets the difference will be hard to see but if you use 20 feets you will see the difference. Many systems can't demonstrate the difference because they sound very good but are not very analytic." Huh?
superjazzyJa(me)s Bronze Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 32 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 00:01 GMT Here it is Jan, the helium analogy was just like your water in a pipe analogy. designed so people could make sense of a concept. If it's not okay for me to use analogies, then don't you use them. So let me know if we're both going to use analogies or neither of us are. I know it's hard, but please try to understand this was about how sound is effected by speed. I was trying to get this to a level that your little buddy could get a handle on. First, as it pertains to bi-wiring, I never said I believed everything the sales rep said. Just because I didn't have time to explain that at the moment, doesn't mean I just accepted it. Like I pointed out, which you conveniently ignored, the sales rep showed me a display (yes it was monster) that showed a cross section of the time correction cable with monster's explanation. Of course I had the same questions as you and asked them. Although a full range signal travels through both wires, the signals do have to pass through the crossovers. Or did you forget about those? I asked about distance from speakers, numbers of windings (19,981 to cover each individual wave length in the spectrum? No one seems to think that's necessary yet.) Again, I know this is a difficult concept for you Jan, but the speed I am referring to is the speed of SOUND! Not the speed of electrons flowing through a wire. Do you get that? The signal to the mids & tweeters is delayed so that the bass leaves the woofer before the signal gets to the other drivers. Hello? It has nothing to do with how fast the signal is processed by a driver. Again, it's not that I buy this, this is what Monster, Audio Quest, etc. are saying. The only reason I even posted in this thread to begin with is that some people were confused about the difference between bi-wiring and bi-amping. It was never to encourage or discourage people as to whether they should do so or not. Am I surprised that you missed that? Not in the slightest. By the way, the explanation about how electrons flow through a wire: NO! REALLY! Next you'll tell us that the sky is blue! Are you aware that there are actually groups of electrons traveling into and out of wires? Ever hear of a coulomb? You've mentioned that you've never bi-wired speakers. Why don't you try that and see how it sounds compared to single wiring? At least be able to tell us how that sounds to you! Do you notice a difference in timing, sound quality, etc. Why do argue the point when you haven't tried it? The single wire with time correction claim is that multiple widths and lengths of wire are used in a single run. Of course they all have the same solder points at both ends, so the legitimacy of this being related to time correction is in question. I can tell you this. When I bought my speakers, I had 16 gauge Monster cable in pace. I replaced them with Monster 12 gauge. With the new wire, the sound was better and the timing was tighter. However, was that time correction at work or just the result of thicker wire? Jury's still out. Audio Quest and other companies are making similar products. So Jan, do you really think these companies spend millions of $ on research for a gimmick? If they are it's quite a gimmick! Not to say that I buy what they say, but it's something to think about. An education just like mine? That would involve flying to NJ to chase down people who have most likely passed away. But you could do some research online. Obviously you have access to a computer. Or you could...READ SOME BOOKS! WOW What an idea!
superjazzyJa(me)s Bronze Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 33 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 00:03 GMT Hey look! Nuck posted! Spend all day Sunday in bed did we? Or do you not get hangovers anymore? Bet AA could help you out!
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3443 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 00:03 GMT Why do I have a strange feeling this is about to get uglier than it already is?
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15179 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 00:28 GMT Chris A system is not only cable but source, amplification then transducer. A analytical system has its default which is the fitness to bring the light details not wanted. Perfect recording sound great but good recording does sound as well! We are back to the debate with Jan where I said that the quality of cable make a difference in Bi-wirings! >>>>David why you was not in the discusiion betwen Jan and me about it?
David Mitchell Gold Member Username: Dmitchell Ottawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4349 Registered: Feb-07	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 00:33 GMT I must have been listening to music in my non-biwired system, and enjoying it.
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15180 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 00:42 GMT David Read the complete thread then you will see that I said that you don't need bi-wirings if the cable is good. What I can see is that you are here discussing this subject but when me and Glasswolf says to Jan that this is not necessary with good wires! This forum is dead then I know why now!
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3445 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 00:44 GMT Mind if I ask where you racked up 15K posts???
David Mitchell Gold Member Username: Dmitchell Ottawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4350 Registered: Feb-07	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 00:49 GMT Wow, ok... I'm not sure if your arrogant and condescending manner is due to English not being your primary language, but you may want to reconsider the way that you communicate with people. I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt. You automatically assume I did not read the entire thread, because I have a differing opinion that you. I tend to stay out of pissing matches since they are a waste of time, but something as obvious as this I figured I throw in my 2 cents.
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3446 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 00:51 GMT Ditto.
David Mitchell Gold Member Username: Dmitchell Ottawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4351 Registered: Feb-07	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 00:51 GMT "Mind if I ask where you racked up 15K posts???" That's exactly what I was wondering Chris. Car audio maybe?
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3447 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 00:55 GMT There's a Video Games section?
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15181 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 00:56 GMT Satellite forum! Welcome plymouth. You are now logged in. Check new messages • Edit profile • Log out Username: Plymouth Your Name (Displayed next to your posts): Plymouth Last Logged In: October 18, 2010 Registered: January 20, 2008 Total Posts: 15181 Status: Platinum Member Country: Canada Age: 4? Sex (M/F): m Total A/V System Value: 1???? Your A/V System: Viewsat ultra, HH90, fortec 33",QPH-031
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3448 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 00:58 GMT Sputnik or Telstar?
superjazzyJa(me)s Bronze Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 36 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 01:01 GMT David, there is no law saying you have to bi-wire. Do what sounds good to you. Just recommend that people try different things and see how they sound whenever possible. I also strongly recommend ignoring EVERYTHING Jan says.
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15182 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 01:05 GMT This forum is dead then I know why now! You know what? When I type bi-wirings, I can see eCoustics on top of page now follow-up by Damping factor thread and Negative feedback! Try it on Yahoo!
David Mitchell Gold Member Username: Dmitchell Ottawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4352 Registered: Feb-07	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 01:08 GMT "Just recommend that people try different things and see how they sound whenever possible" I agree with this. That's exactly what I've been doing for the last 5 years or so. "I also strongly recommend ignoring EVERYTHING Jan says." This I don't agree with.
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15183 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 01:09 GMT Sputnik or Telstar? I get 26 satellites!
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3450 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 01:10 GMT I generally try to do EVERYTHING Jan says when it come to audio.
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15184 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 01:12 GMT That's what is called "troll"! No?
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3451 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 01:16 GMT There are "trolls" and there are "stalkers", I suspect the latter.
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3452 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 01:25 GMT Is it true that if I wear a grounded-spaghetti strainer on my head, the Black-Ops Halliburton satellites can't scramble my thoughts?
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15186 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 01:26 GMT LOL! Good one!
David Mitchell Gold Member Username: Dmitchell Ottawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4353 Registered: Feb-07	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 01:27 GMT It was true, but they developed a counter-measure to that last week.
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3453 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 01:27 GMT So that's a no? I didn't think it would help!
Nuck Platinum Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 15486 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 01:40 GMT Hey jazz fukc whatever...quick, what speakers does JV run? before that? BEFORE THAT? JV sold and biwired speakers before you could spell the word meter. BTW, if you weren't busy playing marbles together, you might see single drivers there..A lot. I am going to check out, because I was just so happy to leave that shiithole of Sainte Foy today, I am just as happy to wash my hands of morons.
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15187 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 02:15 GMT The life is back on the Audio forum!!!!!!!!!!!
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15188 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 02:16 GMT Nuck Why not join me at Neilson bar?
Paul Larrea Diamond Member Username: Wingmanalive Www.stainles... .ecrater.com Post Number: 23690 Registered: Jun-06	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 03:31 GMT I say we all saddle up to my bar and get sloppy drunk. Free admission, free drinks. Any takers lol?
sean Platinum Member Username: Insearchofbass 2 hifonics 2607s, 2dcSounds12xls SPL\idmax12SQ Post Number: 15613 Registered: Jun-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 03:43 GMT Is that beer ready Paul?
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15193 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 04:01 GMT Paul I'm starting! LOL!
sean Platinum Member Username: Insearchofbass 2 hifonics 2607s, 2dcSounds12xls SPL\idmax12SQ Post Number: 15620 Registered: Jun-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 04:18 GMT Maybe one day ill have to come and visit you paul since you live just in NJ.
Chris H Gold Member Username: Hawkbilly Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1048 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 10:02 GMT "A system is not only cable but source, amplification then transducer" No sh!t. Thanks ever so much for straightening me out on that.
leo stierer Gold Member Username: Magfan USA Post Number: 1704 Registered: Oct-07	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 16:30 GMT Been catching up on this thread: Super? What is the definition of a coulomb? How does that relate to the charge in a capacitor? How does it relate to your criticism of whatever you were criticizing? Plym? I find it weird that a motor control guy like you has no idea what Power Factor is. Or how it relates to amps / speakers and power supplies. In brief, power factor is a measure of how much voltage and current are out of phase. It is usually measured in degrees. Take the cosine of the phase angle in degrees and you have power factor. Let's say, for a bad example, that you measure your power supply using your amp clamp? You measure say......2 amps. W/ P=IE you would say something over 200 watts, right? Maybe 240 in an ideal case. Well, how much POWER is actually delivered? If you are dealing with a pure resistive load, you get it ALL. However, since your PS has reactive elements......that transformer and all those caps, you will have a phase angle. This is why I suggested a Kill-a-watt meter. In order to measure phase angle takes a big hassle using just amp and volt meters. Example? Right at this minute my line voltage is a pretty good 118 volts. My 4' tube light is drawing about 0.34 amps. This is about 40va. However, my PF is .79 so I'm actually getting billed for 32 WATTS. As it happens, a large factory can be billed an additional charge for low power factor. You consume VA, but get billed for WATTS. That's why some speakers are amp killers and that some 'hi sensitivity' speakers need lots of power. And, as it turns out, some low sensitivity speakers are OK with less powerful amps. Couple a low impedance dip with a hi phase angle and there you go. This phenom is also related to why certain speaker designs like certain amps. I'll let you figure that part of it out. I'm fairly certain that your modified power supply is low power factor. And NO, Magnepan is NOT electrostatic and has no parasitic charge. The ARE fairly low sensitivity, made up for by the dipole radiation pattern and recovery of the backwave and at the same time are moderate in phase angle. They are considered by most to be 'current hungry'.
superjazzyJa(me)s Bronze Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 37 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 16:47 GMT Leo, I am not relating ANYTHING AT ALL to a charge in a capacitor. I have not even touched on that subject.
superjazzyJa(me)s Bronze Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 38 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 17:05 GMT First of all Jan, I am more of a MAN than you ever have been, are now or ever will be. You haven't proven anything yourself, except that you are an arrogant and incredibly stupid little boy with absolutely no knowledge of anything. Don't want to be insulted? Try actually reading my posts and getting the point. The reason I pointed out what amp makers claim which they most certainly do, is to demonstrate why a tube amp would be better with multiple speakers you incredibly stupid moron! Why don't YOU stop wasting MY and PLYMOUTH's time and go away? Go learn some actual facts. Find website for yourself! I'm not going to waste any more of my time on a pathetic worm like you Jan. So don't say anything to me at all ever!
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15383 Registered: May-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 17:27 GMT . "Here it is Jan, the helium analogy was just like your water in a pipe analogy. designed so people could make sense of a concept. If it's not okay for me to use analogies, then don't you use them. So let me know if we're both going to use analogies or neither of us are. I know it's hard, but please try to understand this was about how sound is effected by speed." I have no problem with analogies or even some flowery metaphors - when they are accurate and related to the topic at hand. The issue of helium still has nothing to do with biwiring or with time compensation through the cable. I know this is hard for you to grasp, so don't try. You'll only get a headache. First, as it pertains to bi-wiring, I never said I believed everything the sales rep said." What you said then ... "Bi-wiring is absolutely, positively all about time correction and always has been. The sales rep in the high end store showed me a display of bi-wiring cable, a display made by the wire manufacturer, which showed the cable cross sectioned so you can see the mid/tweeter wire wrapped around the woofer wire. The company that made the wire (Monster, I think) explains in the write up the hows and whys of bi-wiring. This includes making the signal arrive later at the mids & tweeters in hopes that it will arrive at your ears at the same time as the bass." https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1908632#POST1908632 " Of course I had the same questions as you and asked them." If there was no proof from the rep when you "asked these same questions", why did you use the rep's example as proof of your claim? Stupidity is a terrible affliction for you, isn't it, j? You find you have to back out of so many things you've stupidly claimed to be true. "(19,981 to cover each individual wave length in the spectrum? No one seems to think that's necessary yet.)" Maybe because that's stupid too. I assume you came up with that figure? When you find a 19,981 way speaker, let me know. "Again, I know this is a difficult concept for you Jan, but the speed I am referring to is the speed of SOUND! Not the speed of electrons flowing through a wire. Do you get that?" Read the title of the thread, "Putting biwiring to rest". Then ... "Bi-wiring is using a single channel for each speaker. Many amps used to have 2 outputs for a single channel. One output ran directly to the woofer through a thick wire. The other output ran to the midrange and tweeter through a thinner wire which was wrapped around the woofer wire. This type of cable was called "time correction" cable. The reason for it is that mid & treble travel faster than bass. This set up was designed to compensate for the difference in speed. Bi-amping is using one channel of an amp for the woofer and one for the mid & tweeter." https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1906728#POST1906728 "Bi-wiring is mostly about time correction. Highs travel faster than lows, so the wire for the midrange & tweeter is longer than the one for the woofer and the mid/tweeter wire is wrapped around the woofer wire." https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1908176#POST1908176 "Since there is no way to slow down air waves without dropping their frequency, the idea is to make the electrical signal reach the midranges and tweeters later than it does the woofer in hopes that the sound arives at your ears at the same time or at least closer together than without time correction." https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1908259#POST1908259 "Bi-wiring is absolutely, positively all about time correction and always has been. The sales rep in the high end store showed me a display of bi-wiring cable, a display made by the wire manufacturer, which showed the cable cross sectioned so you can see the mid/tweeter wire wrapped around the woofer wire. The company that made the wire (Monster, I think) explains in the write up the hows and whys of bi-wiring. This includes making the signal arrive later at the mids & tweeters ... " *"The signal to the mids & tweeters is delayed so that the bass leaves the woofer before the signal gets to the other drivers."* now ... *"the speed I am referring to is the speed of SOUND! Not the speed of electrons flowing through a wire."* "Again, it's not that I buy this, this is what Monster, Audio Quest, etc. are saying." Then I'll ask you again to explain why you even tried to use the cable and what the cable rep claimed as proof of your claims? The cable has nothing to do with the "speed" of wavefronts through air. As I've pointed out, the cable cannot compensate for the time correction of the speaker system. "Time" is screwed in the speaker's electrical system. I told you, filters have both time and phase anomalies which must be accounted for in a high quality system. Any correction to the "time" element of a speaker's electrical design has nothing to do with the speed of sound. If you understand facts, your backtracking falls apart immediately. "The signal to the mids & tweeters is delayed so that the bass leaves the woofer before the signal gets to the other drivers." Right, this is an effect of the filter action of the crossover, not the cable. "The only reason I even posted in this thread to begin with is that some people were confused about the difference between bi-wiring and bi-amping." I don't remember anyone here being confused about those two concepts, please provide a link to the post where you found this "confusion". "You've mentioned that you've never bi-wired speakers. Why don't you try that and see how it sounds compared to single wiring? At least be able to tell us how that sounds to you! Do you notice a difference in timing, sound quality, etc. Why do argue the point when you haven't tried it?" "Just to let everyone know the facts on my end of this, I do not now own nor have I ever owned a pair of speakers which offered biwiring capacity. It would, therefore, be impossible for me to reach any conclusion " ... based on your desire to hear a difference to justify the money spent ... ". I have not spent money for speakers or cables which have to do with biwiring, therefore I have nothing to justify to you or to myself pertaining to my actions or beliefs." Never said I've not heard a pair of biwirable speakers. I've never owned a pair. I am not arguing the "point" of biwiring. I am disproving the assertion which you made, "Bi-wiring is absolutely, positively all about time correction and always has been." I'm doing so because it is wrong and stupid, just like you. "The single wire with time correction claim is that multiple widths and lengths of wire are used in a single run. Of course they all have the same solder points at both ends, so the legitimacy of this being related to time correction is in question." But you used it as "proof" of your claim. "When I bought my speakers, I had 16 gauge Monster cable in pace. I replaced them with Monster 12 gauge. With the new wire, the sound was better and the timing was tighter" Unless the cable is intentionally mis-engineered for a specific purpose, cable alone cannot affect "time". You state it cannot in various places (" ... so the legitimacy of this being related to time correction is in question.") and now claim it can here above. "Audio Quest and other companies are making similar products" Please point me to these websites you say you visit to prove this statement. With the proven unreliability of your word, I'd like some proof of almost anything you claim. "So Jan, do you really think these companies spend millions of $ on research for a gimmick? If they are it's quite a gimmick! Not to say that I buy what they say, but it's something to think about." child, I've been around this stuff far longer than you. Here's something to think about, how many cable companies are there competing for the limited resources of the audiophile market? How many ways are there, do you suppose, to design a speaker cable? "An education just like mine? That would involve flying to NJ to chase down people who have most likely passed away. But you could do some research online." Can't. P says "guuugle is no goood". Though chasing down a dead guy doesn't sound that difficult. .
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15384 Registered: May-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 17:45 GMT . "First of all Jan, I am more of a MAN than you ever have been, are now or ever will be." ROTFLMAO!!! (shhhhh, everyone, ya'll behave now) "Try actually reading my posts and getting the point." I have and they're quite easy to refute. "The point" is you are a stupid, trash talking little punk who lacks the ability to back up what the loud mouthed little boy in you claims. I thought I had made that clear. "The reason I pointed out what amp makers claim which they most certainly do, is to demonstrate why a tube amp would be better with multiple speakers ... " But you're wrong and you're reasoning was stupid and factless. If they "most certainly do" it shouldn't be a problem to prove it. "What's the matter,j? Can't find the links on your own? Aw, poor baby!" Nor should it be a problem to accept my challenge. If I can't disprove what you've claimed, you can stay. If you can prove what you say about tube amps and "8X" power into "1 Ohm", you get to stay. If you aren't a punk kid, why not accept the challenge? What do you have to loose? No one here respects you anyway. It's not like you're fighting for valor here. "'m not going to waste any more of my time on a pathetic worm like you Jan. So don't say anything to me at all ever!" If you're not here, I won't say anything to you. If you stay here after accepting the fact you cannot prove what you claim and running from a very simple challenge to prove what you say and thereby prove me to be wrong, and by staying here you continue to be a stupid, little trash talking punk, I will continue to prove you are what I claim and what everyone here sees you to be. I don't like stupidity for the sake of stupidity and, if you post stupdiity, I feel compelled to point out just how stupid the little punk with the big mouth who can't prove sh!t can be. Now, the best thing for you to do would be go bother someone on the car stereo forums. .
superjazzyJa(me)s Bronze Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 41 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 20:02 GMT Hey Jan since you haven't proven anything quit acting so childish and pestering me. Go away kid, ya bother me. Go back to the sand box with your little friend. Don't talk to me or refer to me or what I say. You make yourself look stupid, foolish and childish when you keep going on and on. We can agree that we're not about to agree right? So just let it go. If you want me to believe that you're any kind of man at all, prove it by dropping it already! Are you at least capable of that?
leo stierer Gold Member Username: Magfan USA Post Number: 1706 Registered: Oct-07	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 20:16 GMT So, Super, What IS a coulomb? Definition please, and how it matters to whatever you were spewing.
Chris H Gold Member Username: Hawkbilly Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1049 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 22:05 GMT "The reason I pointed out what amp makers claim which they most certainly do, is to demonstrate why a tube amp would be better with multiple speakers you incredibly stupid moron!" Wow. Just wow. "First of all Jan, I am more of a MAN than you ever have been, are now or ever will be. " Kid, you're killin' me.
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15205 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 23:38 GMT Stop your sh1t! The truth is that Jan is a idiot then I proved it, he got his info on Guggly like a internet troll with many link with black or white answer for the same subject! A idiot still a idiot! That's it!
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15389 Registered: May-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 23:40 GMT . " We can agree that we're not about to agree right?" We can agree not to agree on politics, religion or what speaker to buy. We cannot agree to simply disagree when you continue to post stupid trash talkin' sh!t that is clearly not only wrong but in direct contradiction to what you have previously posted. https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1909041#POST1909041 https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1909052#POST1909052 If you continue to say stupid sh!t, it will get corrected. At that point it is in your better interest to shut up and take it like the "man" you claim to be while I disentangled the BS you post. Otherwise, I'll do again what I've done here until you are again crying out, "Mom, he touched me! MOM!!!!!" I suggest you go see who you can disturb on the "Accessories" forum. .
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15206 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 23:43 GMT Many other forums kicked his azz because he don't know what he talking about when the technical is needed. I agree that for the latest news he is good but closed his mouth on technical thing would be a great improve from him! He look like a old tart with his stupid replies!
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15390 Registered: May-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 23:50 GMT . "Stop your sh1t!" "Mom, he's looking at me, Mom. Make him stop looking at me! MOM!!!!!! ROTFLMAO!!! "The truth is that Jan is a idiot then I proved it ... " https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1906071#POST1906071 Truth is the enemy of the lie. https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1907432#POST1907432 .
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15207 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 23:55 GMT You tell me that my time has run out ! You bet?
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15208 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 23:58 GMT Where is your girlfriend James Macaulay?
Chris H Gold Member Username: Hawkbilly Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1050 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 23:59 GMT "The truth is that Jan is a idiot then I proved it" You proved lots about yourself, but nothing about Jan. You can puff your chest out all you want, it doesn't make anything that you said any more true. All you have Plymouth is your opinions, and many won't share them......you'll have to resign yourself to that at some point.
David Mitchell Gold Member Username: Dmitchell Ottawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4354 Registered: Feb-07	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 00:05 GMT Plymouth, you seem to have a personal vendetta against several long standing members of this forum. Why is that? Because they disagree with you? Let it go... not everyone is always going to subscribe to your beliefs. If that upsets you this much, it must be very hard being you.
Chris H Gold Member Username: Hawkbilly Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1051 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 00:14 GMT "Where is your girlfriend James Macaulay?" You your halitosis ( aka James) have sunk to some pretty pathetic lows and you need to get a grip. Honestly, grow up. If you've got an articulate argument to make (still waiting on that one) make it, otherwise.....and for the betterment of humankind......remove your fingers from the keyboard.
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15209 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 00:18 GMT I invite you all to read the complete thread as well that "Damping factor and negative feedback" to see which one started his idioties! David Yes it seem but it is false!
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15210 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 00:24 GMT Chris You can tell it to this stupid Jan with his "Roman" posts about nothing about the real subject!
Chris H Gold Member Username: Hawkbilly Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1052 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 00:40 GMT "You can tell it to this stupid Jan with his "Roman" posts about nothing about the real subject!" Subject ? I've not seen one of those. I've also not seen you do anything other than state your broad opinions.....to which people have largely disagreed. Jan tried numerous times to stay with you, but your not an easy guy to follow, and you steadfastly refuse to state anything other than absolutes without making an intelligent argument about any of them. You don't listen. At all. Try reading Jan's posts. Really reading them.....rather than looking for a phrase to take issue with. I still suggest you back away from the keyboard and perhaps come back when you want to discuss (involves listening, respecting, etc) something reasonably. The folks here are really great, and very knowledgeable. Your and James' remarks to Nuck are hateful and ugly. If I was the admin here you'd be done.
Nuck Platinum Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 15487 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 01:06 GMT It's fine CH. This is the wild west, and I have withdrawn from the scrum. Like I am hard to find, haha. Plymouth, you genius, you may not have searched far enough. If you look back on my history ( as you seem wont to do), you will find that I am a man of culture. A man of experience. A certain je ne sais quoi, that has me invited into homes of members here. For listening sessions and family dinners and gatherings. You are a fool. If you play nice, you might get an invite for a turkey dinner. Come alone, one way ticket.
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15211 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 01:26 GMT James Macaulay I just play nice like you do under many false nick on Satellite forum!
Paul Larrea Diamond Member Username: Wingmanalive Www.stainles... .ecrater.com Post Number: 23698 Registered: Jun-06	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 01:32 GMT quote: If you play nice, you might get an invite for a turkey dinner. Come alone, one way ticket. Lololololol. Sorry. It was funny.
shawnboy Silver Member Username: Shawnharman Post Number: 209 Registered: Dec-05	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 01:33 GMT plymouth and james remind me of that one person we had on here under different names always attacking Jan what was his name?
David Mitchell Gold Member Username: Dmitchell Ottawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4355 Registered: Feb-07	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 01:36 GMT I was thinking the same thing Shawnboy, except one speaks broken English and the other doesn't. Kinda interesting how superjazzyJa(me)s registered right around the same time Plymouth slithered over from the satellite forum.
Paul Larrea Diamond Member Username: Wingmanalive Www.stainles... .ecrater.com Post Number: 23699 Registered: Jun-06	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 01:46 GMT Yeah but James doesn't come with the broken English. Ugh, I better stay out of this. Plymouth and I have a bad history.
Paul Larrea Diamond Member Username: Wingmanalive Www.stainles... .ecrater.com Post Number: 23700 Registered: Jun-06	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 01:47 GMT Not that there's anything wrong with that.........lol.
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15214 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 01:52 GMT I can understand why many persons attack Jan with his attitude!
superjazzyJa(me)s Bronze Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 45 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 03:34 GMT Okay, obviously Jan plans to keep his stupid childish crap going. Since I never contradicted myself, nor have I said anything that's wrong, there is nothing to correct. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't waste my time proving something to you. You are an unworthy fool and you'd argue anyway. Since you brought up the topic of religion, I would bet that if God or whatever god you believe in proved something to you by showing you with no room for argument at all, you'd still tell him he's wrong! Why because you are the biggest fool ever to walk the Earth!
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3454 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 03:49 GMT How do I unsubscribe from this thread? These jackasses are begining to make my blood boil!
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15394 Registered: May-04	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 03:56 GMT . Consider the source, CM. This is what they think of as "fun".
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3455 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 04:02 GMT Oh yeah, it's a genuine barrel of monkeys!
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15398 Registered: May-04	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 14:15 GMT . More like the loudmouthed drunks in bar. Their only concern is that they can disrupt everyone else. On a scale of 1-10, how much reliable information do you feel these two have provided in their dozens of posts? I'd put that number at about "-9".
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3456 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 14:19 GMT That's being a bit generous, don'tcha think?
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 230 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 18:59 GMT Bottom line: Bi-wiring is FAR from being put to rest!
Nick K Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10 Canada Post Number: 3257 Registered: Jun-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 03:16 GMT bi-wiring. superjazzy and plymouth are pals for sure. I also believe superjazzy has been here many times before under other names. The puzzle has been cut.muuahaaahaaa evil laugh This forum the last few weeks has really been over run by these guys. The Admin of ecoustics runs this forum like a tool.
David Mitchell Gold Member Username: Dmitchell Ottawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4378 Registered: Feb-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 03:26 GMT For sure Nick. I posted a thread awhile ago an admittedly off-topic post about BBQ-ing (which is a pretty popular topic among some regulars here) and it was deleted by the admin, but for some reason they allow come-lately tools to waste bandwidth and espouse all sorts of useless nonsense, and even attack members at a personal level.
Nick K Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10 Canada Post Number: 3259 Registered: Jun-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 03:35 GMT Yeah so true David. I was surprised he deleted the bbq thread. Was probably the most interesting, and fun thread posted on Ecoustics in well over 4 months. What do they do? Delete it. Way to go admin. You are really steering ecoustics in the right direction. I came on the Amps forum tonight to see one name listed as the last poster on the top dozen threads. All of it is topics about hooking up 128 speakers to you amp and watching it blow. Or lessons on Ohms law. Who gives a f$&k. I much rather talk about smoking food.
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3474 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 03:36 GMT Me too!
George / SoundGame Gold Member Username: Soundgame Pickering, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1199 Registered: Jun-08	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 03:37 GMT Man, it's amazing how things can change with a couple new influences. It's like an outbreak here!
Nick K Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10 Canada Post Number: 3260 Registered: Jun-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 03:43 GMT lol Like a virus George. Spreading through the forum and the Admin is the anti-virus software that can't delete it. Chris - I feel another bbq thread coming on shortly. I got a new smoker and I am feeling daring.lol. Smokers Law = Meat + Smoker = yum yum. There hows that for an equation. If you put 8, 4 pound rib racks on your smoker you will blow your smoker. If you lay the 8, 4 pound ribs in parallel that will create a 32 pound load. This will set fire to your smoker. lol!!
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15399 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 03:47 GMT BBQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What the fock this thing has to do with Home audio?
Nick K Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10 Canada Post Number: 3262 Registered: Jun-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 03:51 GMT You ever sit at your system with it cranked, beer in hand eating a plate full of smoked ribs? That is what I am talking about. Food and Music go together like BJJ and Ankle locks.
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15403 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 04:02 GMT OK I see! I don't know why Admin deleted this thread! I vote for a off topic for each forum! What do you think?
Nick K Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10 Canada Post Number: 3264 Registered: Jun-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 04:21 GMT I would think the fine people of Ecoustics who keep this forum going by continuously posting fun and helpful audio/video threads here should be aloud to start the odd off topic thread all they want.
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15404 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 04:38 GMT Nick Seriously from what I can see, the mixing between ecoustics forums is not too good! I would ask to Admin for a Off topic ad to most important forums! I cross my finger then I hope that he add it!
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 255 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 11:28 GMT I agree Nick, a little fun now & then is good, but it was going overboard very quickly. Just so you know, I haven't been on this forum under other nicknames and haven't been on other forums audio at all. I came into ecoustics in hopes of talking to people about audio with mutual respect. I am going to try that again.
David Mitchell Gold Member Username: Dmitchell Ottawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4379 Registered: Feb-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 13:18 GMT "Food and Music go together like BJJ and Ankle locks" Ha! Awesome Nick.
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15496 Registered: May-04	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 13:39 GMT . "If you put 8, 4 pound rib racks on your smoker you will blow your smoker. If you lay the 8, 4 pound ribs in parallel that will create a 32 pound load. This will set fire to your smoker. lol!!" .
Christopher Molloy Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy Fort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 3475 Registered: Oct-04	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 14:05 GMT HA!
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 259 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 14:19 GMT "You don't bring a knife to gun fight and if they put of yours in the hospital, you put one of theirs in the morgue." No disrespect to Sean Connery, but where did his character end up? In the morgue! Why? Because he walked right into the most obvious trap of all time! On ecoustics, Sean Connery's character was played by Jan Vigne. The mafia guy with the knife was played by a post about a -3 dB subwoofer enclosure. Frank Nitty was played by SuperjazzyJa(me)s, except SuperjazzyJa(me)s had a full auto paintball gun because, aside from having no interest in killing or harming people, Sjj covered JV with paintballs for all to see.
Paul Larrea Diamond Member Username: Wingmanalive Www.stainles... .ecrater.com Post Number: 23781 Registered: Jun-06	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 14:37 GMT * Anxiously awaits beer to finish fermenting*
David Mitchell Gold Member Username: Dmitchell Ottawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4381 Registered: Feb-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 14:54 GMT How much longer Paul?
Paul Larrea Diamond Member Username: Wingmanalive Www.stainles... .ecrater.com Post Number: 23782 Registered: Jun-06	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 15:21 GMT It will be 21 days tomorrow David since brewing. My hydrometer readings are showing signs that it's time to bottle tonight or tomorrow. After that it's 2 weeks on the shelf then into the fridge. Booooooyaaaaaaa. 2nd batch will brew tomorrow.
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15498 Registered: May-04	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 15:53 GMT . ""You don't bring a knife to gun fight and if they put of yours in the hospital, you put one of theirs in the morgue." No disrespect to Sean Connery, but where did his character end up? In the morgue! Why? Because he walked right into the most obvious trap of all time! On ecoustics, Sean Connery's character was played by Jan Vigne. The mafia guy with the knife was played by a post about a -3 dB subwoofer enclosure. Frank Nitty was played by SuperjazzyJa(me)s, except SuperjazzyJa(me)s had a full auto paintball gun because, aside from having no interest in killing or harming people, Sjj covered JV with paintballs for all to see." Hate to point out where Nitty's character ended up and how Connery's character was taken out by creeps. That the lesson won out in the end is the take away for most people. Look, james, if this is your idea of, "Just don't be surprised or offended when I don't talk to you or answer your questions. okay?", you are seriously missing the point. And I am offended that after all the BS you posted yesterday this is what I find today. What are you trying to start back up now? Have you decided to continue all the BS of the last week? Why? To what end may I ask? Drop it and either become a member of this forum or not. No one believes your BS about the "trap" you set for me. No one other than you believes I fell into anything when I posted, "Three DB cabinets do not exist." For the love of Pete, give it up! If you want to end up only talking to P, do it through emails and leave the rest of us alone. You claimed you didn't want the problems to continue yet here you are starting them up again in yet another thread away from where your posts occurred. You are not proving to be any more trustworthy now that you were two days ago. Get your sh!t together for a change. Don't you get that the last two dozen posts on this thread are a reaction to just what you are posting here? No one wants you hear your crap or the crap P is now going to feel compelled to follow with. The forum is about audio and people getting along. If you have other issues, take then somewhere else. You're sh!tty attitude doesn't fit in here and never will as long as you keep this BS going. Either you drop it and move onto becoming a useful member of the forum or, I suggest, you just move on because you have no intentions of ever fitting in. You don't want anyone to talk to you? Keep this up and they won't. .
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 264 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 16:15 GMT 2 questions Jan. Are you now claiming to be a mind reader? You are saying that no one believes that you fell into a trap. I don't recall anyone else saying anything about that. What was the 8, 4 lb rib racks on the grill post about? Some sort of joke? If so, it was a stupid childish joke. Not the kind of joke a mature person would post.
Chris H Gold Member Username: Hawkbilly Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1069 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 16:32 GMT "Not the kind of joke a mature person would post." Good grief. You're posting this ? Would you like me to revisit some of your posts ? C'mon James. Don't start this up again.
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 265 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 17:06 GMT It's not that I want to start more trouble Chris, I just want Jan to think about, not even answer, my questions. Just think abou them. It takes 2 people to fight and it takes 2 people to make peace. At best, Jan's post about the ribs was poorly timed. I plan to stay in this forum for a very long time. I'm sure we'd all like for that time to be peaceful. That can only happen if BOTH Jan and I stop the insults. The idea that Jan is free to say whatever he wants to me and I can only say nice things to him, just doesn't wash. Okay? It will just never go that way. Thank you!
Chris H Gold Member Username: Hawkbilly Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1070 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 17:17 GMT Who's saying you have to say nice things to him ? I didn't. And you've got your facts wrong again. It wasn't Jan's joke. Scroll up and see who made the joke. And it wasn't pointed at you, dude.....unless you CHOOSE to take it that way. You're getting yourself twisted again, and you've got your facts wrong again.
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15500 Registered: May-04	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 17:46 GMT . "It wasn't Jan's joke. Scroll up and see who made the joke. And it wasn't pointed at you, dude ... unless you CHOOSE to take it that way. You're getting yourself twisted again, and you've got your facts wrong again.}
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 268 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 18:05 GMT The first time I saw that was when Jan reposted it. I had not that Nick posted it to begin with. Still, for Jan to quote that, not good.
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15501 Registered: May-04	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 18:18 GMT . "2 questions Jan. Are you now claiming to be a mind reader? You are saying that no one believes that you fell into a trap. I don't recall anyone else saying anything about that." Two points then, Nuck said he didn't believe you at the time of your post and he called you a "troll", a call which you are not diminishing by your actions now. Are you a mind reader? Who out there has said they do believe you? Not even P. What other sort of evidence do you require to understand this issue? With each of these bizarre posts you dig your credibility hole a lot deeper and more difficult to climb out of. "What was the 8, 4 lb rib racks on the grill post about? Some sort of joke? If so, it was a stupid childish joke. Not the kind of joke a mature person would post." Yeah, it was a joke, and a funny one where everyone but you sees the humor in it. It was a harmless joke that spoke to the maddening, never ending repitition of you finding wrong with everyone else and that this forum is going nowhere until you move forward. It was a godd*mn joke, laugh for a change. James, you clearly have difficulties keeping facts straight. This is at least the second time you have fabricated things which simply do not exist in easy to prove, factual accounts. Even when told you are wrong you plunge ahead with all guns blazing. When you discovered the woofer link was posted by P, you immediately shifted to rationalize away your dozen posts claiming I was the "stupe". If you do scroll up to see who made the post about ribs, I suspect you'll shift again in a similar fashion. Fella, if you can't keep any of this straight for two posts, why should we believe you have any of this straight? James, you are doing yourself no favors here if you truly wish to remain on this forum for a long time. If you see insults and disrespect everywhere, I don't even know where to begin a resonable conversation with you. Take this for what it is and not as an insult. You need to get your head together. .
Chris H Gold Member Username: Hawkbilly Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1072 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 18:22 GMT It was funny, and had nothing to do with you. What's not good is that you make everything about you and Jan. Everything's an insult, and everything is somehow Jan's fault. GET OVER YOURSELF JAMES ! The irony (or hypocrisy....pick one) is that you would have crucified Jan for the same mistake. I mean, roasted him. Yet because it was you and not Jan, you are completely unapologetic for the mistake, and SOMEHOW YOUR MISTAKE IS JAN'S FAULT !! James, open your eyes.
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15411 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 18:23 GMT Chris and Jan We are here to last! You bet that you are not capable of dumping us outside of this forum ? I'm a fully eCoustics members then I have no other link with other competitors sites like Strereophile or DIY. The joke started with Jan comments don't forget it! He kicked Galsswolf out of here, he tried it with me and Super! Bad news! We are here to last! Live with it! PS: I don't need to put it in red with huge character!
David Mitchell Gold Member Username: Dmitchell Ottawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4382 Registered: Feb-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 18:26 GMT "Bad news! We are here to last!" This certainly is bad news. But somehow I doubt it.
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 15502 Registered: May-04	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 18:27 GMT . -town.
Chris H Gold Member Username: Hawkbilly Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1073 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 18:29 GMT Plymouth, I don't care if you stay or go. It's not something I can control so I won't lose a minutes sleep about it. I'll sift through your posts to the ones that are truly helpful.
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15413 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 18:35 GMT Chris Thanks! I'm also capable of helping then I'm also tired of this useless word war!
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 271 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 18:41 GMT Jan, another big whatever from you. What a surprise! "-town" What the f***?
Chris H Gold Member Username: Hawkbilly Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1075 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 18:46 GMT "I'm also capable of helping then I'm also tired of this useless word war!" Capable of helping ? I'm sure you are. Try listening though, because all I've seen you do is dispense your "wisdom" without any allowance for alternate points of view. As for the word war, we all are tired of it. So help end it. Be civil, and respect other points of view.
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 272 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 19:01 GMT Oh Jan, Nuck speaks for everyone? You walked into very obvious trap. Think about how I said it. It was in a post where I simply suggested subwoofers for getting more bass. Then I abruptly start talking about a -3 dB roll off? Anyone with a shred of common sense would've seen that! Enclosures 101! Come on Jan! You walked into the obvious trap ever set. Just admit it already!
Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15415 Registered: Jan-08	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 20:32 GMT Chris I exposed my point of vue then was attacked without compromise by Jan, he is doing same thing with Galsswolf then Super. I posted some problems with his attitude coming from many Guitar forums, none excuse from him everywhere he started the trouble. Guy at Car Audio are very gently then when I exposed my though on audio, they was capable of discussion without bashing or insult! Note that Car Audio forum is the best performer forum of eCoustics! Why not apply the same politic of discussion on this forum for the best of all? Guys have a good day! I'm gone for my birthday party! See you tomorrow! Bye!
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 277 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 20:42 GMT Well Plymouth, I guess you & I are the only ones who see what's wrong with what Jan was saying to us. I guess his little band of followers like being treated like crap. Enjoy your birthday party!
Chris H Gold Member Username: Hawkbilly Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1078 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 21:18 GMT ..."I guess you & I are the only ones who see what's wrong with what Jan was saying to us. I guess his little band of followers like being treated like crap. " So you're the exception, yet it's our problem ? Try thinking about that. If you two are the only ones with the problem, then........?
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 279 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 21:46 GMT Chris, I see you've spent too much time in professor vigne's school of long winded non-sense! Your proctologist called Chris. He told me to tell you that he found your head! He wants to schedule the extraction procedure for next week!
Chris H Gold Member Username: Hawkbilly Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1079 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 22:07 GMT 23 words is long winded to you eh ? That must officially bet the shortest attention span every recorded. I'll check with Guinness. It's official. You never had any intention of changing. You are what you are James. Enjoy.
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 281 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 23:22 GMT The long winded not yet! You got the non-sense part down pretty good though! It all comes in time. Before you know it, you'll be posting 8 million pages of talking in circles and saying nothing just like Jan!
Chris H Gold Member Username: Hawkbilly Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1081 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2010 - 00:41 GMT You just called it "long winded nonsense", and then said "long winded not yet" in your next post.
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 283 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2010 - 02:43 GMT There is a process. You mastered the non-sense part. Now he'll teach you the long winded part.
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 284 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2010 - 02:53 GMT It's a process Chris. He taught you how to post non-sense, next he'll teach you how to make it long winded. One step at a time!
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 285 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2010 - 03:03 GMT It's a process Chris! You mastered the non-sense part, Prof Vigne will teach you the long winded part. Onr step at a time!
sean Platinum Member Username: Insearchofbass 2 hifonics 2607s, 2dcSounds12xls SPL\idmax12SQ Post Number: 15695 Registered: Jun-04	Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2010 - 04:06 GMT should I get the popcorn out now? haha
Stryvn Gold Member Username: Stryvn Wisconsin Post Number: 1240 Registered: Dec-06	Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2010 - 12:19 GMT He's bi-polar. No two ways around it. I've seen this show before. Like trying to reason with a ham sandwich.
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 286 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2010 - 14:24 GMT Bi-polar? Lol! Give me a break! I can assure I'm not bi-polar. You guys are silly!
superjazzyJa(me)s Silver Member Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 287 Registered: Oct-10	Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2010 - 14:35 GMT Everyone can relax now I got the l got the last I had to say about your friend out of my system yestetday.

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