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New member Username: Frank12391Post Number: 1 Registered: Jun-10 | Hi all, I'm new to home audio. I've been into car audio for 15 years but home audio is another ball game altogether. I need some help with this amp. I have quite a few questions here. I hope you can bare with me? Firstly, I have a set of beovox s45-2 that I'm wiring up to the amp - no probs there but also have a velodyne CHT-R 8 that I want to run off it also. I am told that I must use speaker level inputs to the sub as the amp does not have output jacks. The velodyne has both speaker & RCA inputs. The guy I bought the amp off told me to use the tape recording output. Is that correct? There is one RCA out that I can see & a pair of tape outputs as well. The amp specs suggests it has has 90w mono output. Do I need to run it simultaneously from the stereo speaker terminals to the sub; And can I run 2 of these amps together with 1 source, a CD player to drive more speakers? Thanking you. Jess. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4031 Registered: Feb-07 | Don't use the tape out, as far as I know, this won't be controlled by the volume on the amp. I've run subs off other integrateds by using the speaker inputs on the sub. This is what I've done in the past - run the + from one channel and the - from the other channel into the speaker level inputs on the sub. There, done. |
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New member Username: Frank12391Sydney, N.S.W Australia Post Number: 3 Registered: Jun-10 | That is bridging the amp, Mono - Stereo / try mode, is that correct? That is not uncommon in car audio. Is that common practice in home audio? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4036 Registered: Feb-07 | Nope, I don't think you're doing any bridging, since the sub will presumably be powered, so there's no load on the amp. The sub, by design, will be running in mono, and the amp still in stereo. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1272 Registered: Oct-07 | The sub's speaker level inputs will NOT load an amp at all. These kinds of inputs have pretty large input impedance. Evening out the load, by David's technique is nice, but not necessary. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4037 Registered: Feb-07 | It's my obsessive compulsive personality, and my need for relative symmetry, to spread it across the L and R channels Leo :-) |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14944 Registered: May-04 | . The common connection, whether it be signal input or speaker output, is just that "common". Its the same chassis ground no matter where you take it. The one from here and the other from the other is no different than making both connections to one speaker output. There is no "evening out" of the load in what you're doing DM. In most cases you could make your hot leg connection to the "+" side of the speaker output and then just touch the "-" leg to the chassis or to the phono ground lug and you should get sound. The exception to this would be a true dual mono amp that has separate ground paths for both channels beginning at the AC input. . |
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New member Username: Frank12391Sydney, N.S.W Australia Post Number: 4 Registered: Jun-10 | So I could even use left or right if i wanted to? But how do you get 90 watts mono when running a passive sub from this amp as it specifies? What would be the input voltage do you think? And do you recon my speakers will match the amp ok in regards to sensitivity? Sorry for all the Qs. |
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New member Username: Frank12391Sydney, N.S.W Australia Post Number: 5 Registered: Jun-10 | Also, sorry for being a pain, can I run 2 of these amps together to drive more speakers? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14945 Registered: May-04 | . Do not run the sub output from the tape out, it is a fixed level and you will not be able to control the excessive volume it produces. If I remember correctly, the 5100 has dual pre amp outputs. If that's correct, run your sub from one of the pre outs. If there isn't a second pre out, buy a "Y" splitter for the single output. You'll then need to run a very short cable from the female of the splitter to the main amp input jack of the 5100. Do not coil any excess cable here, buy a cable that is as short as possible. If the amp has been in storage or unused for any length of time, do not plug this into the AC outlet and slam it with 120VAC. It needs to slowly be brought up to full power while being monitored on a bench with an oscilloscope and a Variac. I hope you're not planning on doing much partying with the B&O speakers. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14946 Registered: May-04 | . If you have a passive sub, you're screwed. Where'd you find a passive sub nowdays? From a HTIB mini-system? If that's the case, don't even bother with the sub. Save up enough money to buy a real (powered) subwoofer. I thought you said you had a Velodyne with RCA inputs. That would be a powered sub. The passive sub isn't going to match the sensitivity of the B&O's and you will be very unhappy running them both off the speaker outputs of the amplifier. You certainly cannot manage to get mono for the sub and stereo for the speakers at the same time. No, you cannot run two of these amps "together". Forty five watts of McIntosh is enough for most speakers you are likely to consider. Buying more watts isn't going to get you more volume. . |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4038 Registered: Feb-07 | The sub he's talking about Jan is the Velo CHT-R, a powered sub. |
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New member Username: Frank12391Sydney, N.S.W Australia Post Number: 6 Registered: Jun-10 | Thanks for your help, I don't intend to kill the speakers. I'm only in a 2 bdr apartment so excessive volume is not required, just sound quality. The amp has been re-furbed by a repairer. It was his own personal equipment. I'll have to ask him how long it's been on the shelf in his show room b4 I bought it. He told me that he had to replace 2 caps but apart from that it lights up & is flawless looking. You are talking about running 2 amps together right, or the above issue regarding the sub connection? Here is a link to some pics. You can see the rear panel http://www.audioscope.net/mcintosh-ma-5100-amplifier-p-806.html I don't know which input to use & there is an output below the ground, beside the tape outputs. When you say female of the splitter, can you elaborate on that further please? Please excuse my ignorance. I have a lot to learn & I appreciate your help very much. |
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New member Username: Frank12391Sydney, N.S.W Australia Post Number: 7 Registered: Jun-10 | Yeh, it's a powered sub & I just got the message about running 2 amps together. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4039 Registered: Feb-07 | If you're interested in sound quality, and you live in an apartment, forget about the sub, you don't need it. I'm currently running a 2 channel system with no sub off a 10 watt tube rig with lots bass and more volume than my neighbours probably appreciate. You have a half decent amp there. |
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New member Username: Frank12391Sydney, N.S.W Australia Post Number: 8 Registered: Jun-10 | I like the low end sound though |
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New member Username: Frank12391Sydney, N.S.W Australia Post Number: 9 Registered: Jun-10 | I listen to Jazz fusion & modern classical sometimes, I need the sub to get the low end instruments like tubers, large horns, etc |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14947 Registered: May-04 | . http://www.psbspeakers.com/audio-topics/The-Frequencies-of-Music " I'm currently running a 2 channel system with no sub off a 10 watt tube rig with lots bass ... " That may be but you're not runnning 25 year old B&O S45's. They have no deep bass and don't do much with the midbass they do have. " When you say female of the splitter, can you elaborate on that further please?" If you understand the difference between male and female, you'll get the connection once you look at the splitter. . |
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New member Username: Frank12391Sydney, N.S.W Australia Post Number: 10 Registered: Jun-10 | Thank you. Ok now, "If there isn't a second pre out, buy a "Y" splitter for the single output. You'll then need to run a very short cable from the female of the splitter to the main amp input jack of the 5100". If I do this, I'll be left with 1 spare RCA jack from the splitter. What do I do with this? Split it again & run it to the sub inputs? Otherwise, why not run a male to male RCA from the Single output to the main input? Please clarify, thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: Frank12391Sydney, N.S.W Australia Post Number: 11 Registered: Jun-10 | Can a mod please advise me here. I have been given different opinions & methods here. Here is the url to the mac manual http://www.berners.ch/McIntosh/Downloads/MA5100_own.pdf |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14948 Registered: May-04 | . Well, I remembered wrong, there are no pre outs on the 5100. You'll have to run speaker level outputs from the speaker taps on the amplifier to the subwoofer's high level inputs (speaker out on amp to speaker in on sub). Ignore the single mono output, it too is unaffected by the volume control. . |
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Bronze Member Username: Frank12391Sydney, N.S.W Australia Post Number: 12 Registered: Jun-10 | Got it. Thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3858 Registered: May-05 | Good luck with the mods... We don't have any. What Jan is telling you is correct. Run the speaker wires from the speaker outputs on the amp to the sub. The sub should have speaker outputs as well, so run speaker wire from them to your speakers. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15119 Registered: Dec-04 | The configuration that Dave suggested is a 'mixed mono' setup, and is easiest on a taxed amp. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4045 Registered: Feb-07 | Most of my amps are overtaxed, as am I. Happy Canada Day! |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3864 Registered: May-05 | I live in Westchester County, NY, home of the highest tax rate and overall taxes in the US. I'm pretty sure Ontario is worse though. "Free" health care is anything but free. Morons down here think that its a great idea, until you tell them how much "free" health care costs Canadians and how long you can wait for non-life threatening stuff like MRIs and orthopeadic surgery. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14951 Registered: May-04 | . "Mixed mono"? How do you arrive at that with one cable running to a common ground amplifier? |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3087 Registered: Jun-07 | My benefits are free. My company pays for them. And as far as health care goes, I believe something like 9-18 dollars in health care tax comes out of each pay every two weeks. You do the math. I talk to people every day in the south that are paying up to 600 dollars a month in health care benefits.lol I hope your not paying that Stu. As far as the wait...havn't had to experience anything life threatening yet so I will let you know.lol. P.S. Free health care in Canada costs barely nothing. Anyone telling you it costs us an arm and a leg is a moron. Yes we get taxed for health care, but its piddly s$!t. So small you dont even notice it. I bet a 600 dollar health care fee a month to cover a family of four is more noticeable.lol P.S.S I am not getting into another health care battle. But where are you guys getting your info from? Oh, and your protecting the world by being in Iraq....lol right...I think the public believes whatever is fed to them. Sad. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3088 Registered: Jun-07 | On the flip side, hello new tax...and ouch to my a - hole!!! lol. I guess the argument can go both ways. But I could care less. Happy Canada Day!!!! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3089 Registered: Jun-07 | lol ahh im just playing around Stu. There is no perfect system I suppose. Purchased some parts today from my supplier and WAMMO!! Use to pay 5 percent tax on the parts, now I pay 13! Ouch. But hey any other Canadian notice our alcohol is cheaper now? That makes it all worth while. LOL!! |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3869 Registered: May-05 | Every time I've shopped in Canada (ON specifically) I've been hit with absurd sales taxes. Isn't there about 15 or 20% sales tax on stuff? In NY we pay about 8%. There are a lot more hiddent taxes in ON, according to my aunt who moved to Toronto about 15 years ago. A lot of athletes I work with are from Canada. Try tearing your ACL and getting an MRI. Most have waited about a year and a half. Some had surgery before the MRI. People here complain about waiting 2 days. I tell them to talk to their Canadian teammates for a little perspective. My wife gets free health care as a benefit. Before that, we were paying about $200 a month. Rant over. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4048 Registered: Feb-07 | We now have the HST (harmonized sales tax) in Ontario, as of yesterday. What it really is a way to apply the GST and PST to more goods than were taxed before. It's a tax grab, yet again. Our universal health care is something that as toted as uniquely Canadian, but the fact of the matter is that in many areas, our health care system is quite broken. Waiting a year for an MRI is ridiculous, waiting in a hospital waiting for 7 hours with a sick daughter is not good either. On top of that, a lot of Canadians don't even have access to a family doctor. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1279 Registered: Oct-07 | Don't many of our Northern Neighbors head south for elective procedures and simply $$ for them? I wonder how that'll work out under Obamacare? Here in Southern California, some head even further south for some medical and dental work. Ole` |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1280 Registered: Oct-07 | OH, I forgot about the sub! It would also be OK to run speaker wires to the sub. Quality almost doesn't matter.....Than run the normal wires from the amp to the speakers. Use good wire for those connections. NO need to 'daisy chain' them. This will run the sub and the speakers will be Full Range. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15127 Registered: Dec-04 | I stitched myself after being told it would take 6 hrs for stitches. Apparently Nick does not see the 900$ surcharge on tax returns that I do. Or the employee Health and benefit fees that I pay. Or the 7.8% levy on employee benefits that are applied. Nick, baby...this is going to kill us all. You wanna see a crying shame?!? Look at what my boss, a small employer, pays in taxes and fees!!! You want to start a small business...where?!? I have no doctor, nor have any hope of finding one. They are like Packers season seats, I kid you not, just none, will the family doc to kids. This system is absolutely broken, forelorn, and impossible. I am going to Michigan to have a lump removed and inspected, at a cost of 700$ USD. I was told to wait up to 9 months for that to be done here. Add to that...the service in Michigan is yours, you get the results. Here in ON, you never get to see Keifm the gov't and Doc's own the stuff, and it is not required that the info follow you when you moved or are displaced, as I now seem to be, despite a sterling tax record. Tax free day in Ontario was June 5th this year. This means that every single day of your life from Jan1 to June 5th, every cent that you earn is gone to the taxman. Next year is projected to be June 15th. I pay a lot more than that, because I drink and use lots of gas, plus the max 'health surtax'. If I could afford another beer, I would have one. oh wait, I bought before the new tax came in! cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3091 Registered: Jun-07 | lol Beer is actually cheaper now NUCK Down from 17 percent to 13. boooo yaaa!!!! Yeah the taxes in Canada is insane. 13 percent Stu. Much too high. I have never been sick or had an injury but I know a lot of people wait and wait and wait. Too bad. The system here is definitely broke, but by as much as the US system is. I think they both equally suck.lol. I guess there is no such thing as a good health care system. I knew i would get people all riled up over that comment.lol Fun times. Seems these days you just have to mention politics, health care, or obama to get the southern peeps a rolling. lol I could care less. This political talk is boring me..zzzzzzZZZzz. Audio is way more interesting. Thank goodness we can all enjoy that. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4049 Registered: Feb-07 | Still a bit off topic here, if you don't have access to a family doctor you're relegated to going to a walk-in clinic, which is really a walk-in and wait for hours clinic. Then you have access to a third-rate doctor. I went to a walk-in clinic once with a self-diagnosed staph infection. I knew I had got it from the mat, where staph thrives. The doctor said "no... that's not staph. That's syphilis". LOL. Then he went ahead and prescribed me massive doses of penicillin, a drug that I'm deathly allergic to. Free health care! Woo hoo. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1282 Registered: Oct-07 | "Absolute power corrupts even when exercised for humane purposes. The benevolent despot who sees himself as a shepherd of the people still demands from others the submissiveness of sheep. The taint inherent in absolute power is not its inhumanity but its anti-humanity." Extra Credit to anyone who can identify the person quoted, above. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12892 Registered: Feb-05 | Eric Hoffer...or perhaps a fella named McIntosh...I dunno... |
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Bronze Member Username: Frank12391Sydney, N.S.W Australia Post Number: 26 Registered: Jun-10 | I could use the high pass in the sub to run the speakers couldn't I? Or do you think it's better to run the the speakers full range? I was thinking to use the high pass in the velodyne, It's a set 80 or 100 Hz, I could then set the variable low pass a little higher than usual on the sub to handle some of the mid frequencies. That should give me me more volume when or if I need it since the sub amp is 160 watts (plentiful in an apartment) Opinions on what would sound best, please guys. I am yet to take out the amp as I still owe a few $ on it so trial & error is not possible atm. I'm getting very inpatient & can't wait to get it & hook it all up. Got the B&Os, NAD tuner & CD ready though, just waiting on the amp. Grrr. I want it now.... |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1285 Registered: Oct-07 | ART! Full credit! But ONLY if you didn't have to look it up! LCam, You're probably going to have to experiment and keep this thread updated. |
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Bronze Member Username: Frank12391Sydney, N.S.W Australia Post Number: 28 Registered: Jun-10 | My only concern is losing sound quality through the velodyne's Xover. I'm leaning toward full range but we'll wait n see I suppose. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1286 Registered: Oct-07 | LCam, I run my panels full range. I run my sub crossover at the very low end. Certainly not over 45hz. Any higher and I have kind of a bubble in the midrange. Too high a crossover and the low/mids are bloated sounding. The low crossover keeps it tight and the sub only works when presented with an input at the lower limit of the speakers. Localization of the sub is impossible and due to my odd shaped room, evenly distributed. |
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Bronze Member Username: Frank12391Sydney, N.S.W Australia Post Number: 32 Registered: Jun-10 | I know what you mean. If the sub frequency is too high, it becomes directional to the ear. |
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Silver Member Username: EzntnGreeneville, TN Post Number: 186 Registered: Apr-09 | Fortunate I am, there are separate RCA's on the Cary to feed a signal to the Gallo sub amp. I think its time to get river sand for the bases, no rain in ages, so the sand is dry. Flecks of mica in the sand glisten in the sunlight, nice till you realize yer breathin in that nonsense. Insurance .. Obamacare is subsidizing my COBRA, I'm paying 35% of what would be $970 a month to Blue Cross Blue Shield. Thank you Barack. Just spent 5 days in the hospital for diverticulitis, I'm not real excited about seeing those bills come in, but in less of a hurry to pay them. Another test with a scope going the wrong way into my body in about a month. Likely major surgery after that to remove a section of colon. Any insurance is better than none. Think I'll go get that sand, fill my stands, flip flop the Gallos, sub facing in, and listen real hard for any difference. It'll be Monday before I can enjoy a beer again, or two good fingers of Scotch. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14962 Registered: May-04 | . I thought that was "two fingers of good Scotch". |
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Silver Member Username: EzntnGreeneville, TN Post Number: 187 Registered: Apr-09 | Yes ... that too !! |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1291 Registered: Oct-07 | Depends on the size of the fingers! and if you value quality or quantity. Though some Russian once said that 'Quantity has a quality all its own'...... A couple Polish Sausage size fingers is a substantially larger dose than you'd get from some skinny little 'chopstick' fingers. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4050 Registered: Feb-07 | One of my favourite quotes, Leo. From the man of steel. I apply that logic to buffets. |
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Bronze Member Username: Frank12391Sydney, N.S.W Australia Post Number: 36 Registered: Jun-10 | Jan, I don't mean to be a pain but you are off topic here.. |
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Silver Member Username: EzntnGreeneville, TN Post Number: 188 Registered: Apr-09 | Filling those stands with sand.. a considerable improvement. The additional mass did the Gallos right. Music appears to have a bit more crispness to it. Subs now facing inward, quite happy with the change. A no $$ improvement .. can't get better |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4051 Registered: Feb-07 | If you want a forum where people stay on-topic you may want to look elsewhere. I'm one of the worst offenders. What's your favourite colour? |
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Bronze Member Username: Frank12391Sydney, N.S.W Australia Post Number: 37 Registered: Jun-10 | Ok. Fine. Purple. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 4052 Registered: Feb-07 | LOL. ok. What was the original question? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14964 Registered: May-04 | . 1983 |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15131 Registered: Dec-04 | I am not a fan of using a sub XO. I just have to think that somewhere in the pile of electrics upstream, we have a better option. |