Archive through September 27, 2008
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1440 Registered: Dec-03 | My wife tells me you are never too old....... You have to love an eternal optimist JV. I'm having a lot of fun fumbling around the fretboard. Try it in between painting. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9583 Registered: Dec-04 | Knowing the respondant, I pretty much begged for sarcasm there, eh? What are you playing, Rick? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12044 Registered: May-04 | . 26 & 27 http://www.poordavidspub.com/#upcoming%20shows |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1027 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, about one mile south of my office, no turns.  |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9591 Registered: Dec-04 | Lemme see where I end up that week. |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1441 Registered: Dec-03 | Nuck, A '72 and a '79 LP Standard. |
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New member Username: GlowaudioPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-08 | Hello all.... we have introduced a new single ended EL84 based tube amp, the GLOW Amp One. Featuring point to point wiring, hand wound transformers, and a USB portal for direct connection to your computer via 16 bit DAC. Please check us out at www.glow-audio.com If you have any questions, contact us at: info@glow-audio.com Cheers!  |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5979 Registered: Feb-05 | Send me one gratis Jay and I'll tell ya if I like it. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9610 Registered: Dec-04 | Maybe Jay should release one to be circulated between members and reviewed, just like Tim did with his speakers. Whadda ya say Jay? |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 632 Registered: Dec-06 | Count me in. I'll start building the Ziggies right away. |
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New member Username: GlowaudioPost Number: 2 Registered: Jan-08 | I'd love to give them away, because I truly believe that a small SE amp like our GLOW Amp One can be so much more enjoyable to listen to than the mass market transistor stuff. You can listen to it all day, and never get that "listening fatigue" so characteristic of solid state amps. Alas, without the money we receive for selling the amps we can't expand our product line. We priced this amp as low as we could ($480) in order to make it affordable.... we are committed to providing affordable but quality gear, so look for more GLOW stuff before long. Don't hesitate to contact us if you have any questions at info@glow-audio.com and check out the news articles about us at 6moons and whathifi. Cheers. J. www.glow-audio.com     |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9616 Registered: Dec-04 | Jay, a speaker maker from here sent a small pair around the country to be tested and reviewed. Perhaps one of your amps could do the same, to owners of tube amps here. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9617 Registered: Dec-04 | http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/Gibson%20Tone%20Tips_%20Tips%20Fo r%20Hap/ |
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New member Username: GlowaudioPost Number: 3 Registered: Jan-08 | Dear All: It is an interesting offer, and we are flattered. Right now, we have only 5 "demo" amps, and they have all been sent out to various reviewers, 3 of whom are overseas and one in Canada. Co-Founder Mark Mainwaring is responsible for this aspect of the operation, I will discuss your offer with him and try to get you in the queue. As far as logistics, how does this work... who gets it first, who is in the "chain" of recipients, etc. ???? Seems that there is more initial interest outside the US of A... not surprising, but one of the things we hope to achieve is getting more mainstream recognition of small power tube amplifiers stateside. We hope the Amp One helps to get the word out that a 200 watt per channel transistor amp is not the ONLY option nor the BEST option for HIFI on a budget. In the meantime, if you would like to see what the growing GLOW community is saying about the Amp One, see: www.glow-audio.com/glowcommunity.html Finally, keep in mind that we have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee, so if any of you want to take the plunge, there really is no risk. Beats those Ebay offers from obscure amp suppliers in HK and china, where you have to shell out $150 for shipping and when there is a problem (like when you find it is only 220 V non-switchable) YOU have to pay shipping back to HK! Regards, Jay Patrick  |
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Silver Member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 194 Registered: Aug-06 | "As far as logistics, how does this work... who gets it first, who is in the "chain" of recipients, etc. ????" It's easy, I get it first, than I send it to the next guy in Ontario, it makes its rounds in Ontario (there are a few of us here), we'll get the Canadian marketing started, than we ship it down to NY, there are a few guys there who have the ability to properly review audiophilia, they send it down to Texas to satisfy a couple of regulars there, than off to Oregon for whirl, and if there's time, maybe a trip to the Outback in Australia. Perfect. |
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Silver Member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 195 Registered: Aug-06 | I should say, I get it first since I'm in the market for a Headphone amp, and this one just might fit the bill. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 53 Registered: Dec-07 | I am sure this ground has been plowed on here before, so I apologize in advance, but hey nobody has posted for nearly two months, so WTH. What is the feeling on the benefits, if any, of tube dampers? I know, it depends.... But in any event I am interested in thoughts, as well as whether starting with the source is the most likely location to see if there is any noticeable difference. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6487 Registered: Feb-05 | I tried several tube dampers when I owned a tube amp and didn't like the results. They made an audible difference but it was not one I liked. I felt that they contributed to a hard edge with the sound that I found unacceptable. It's my bet that that is not the case with all amps and dampers. I hear great things about Herbie's. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 56 Registered: Dec-07 | I have Herbie's on a phono stage I recently purchased, so I'll try them on and off before buying any more. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12344 Registered: May-04 | . This topic has been covered a few times on the forum. Dampers are going to benefit some tubes in some circuits and they won't do anything or won't do anything beneficial in other cases. Before you spend big money on fancy aftermarket audio dampers, buy some high temperature O-rings from anyone selling gaskets. They will be abour 1/4 the cost of audio aftermarket dampers and are essentially the same product. Do not place dampers on output tubes or most driver/input tubes in a power amplifier. If the tube socket is exposed, try a damper on the socket before you place any on the tube itself. . |
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Bronze Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 58 Registered: Dec-07 | Thanks Art and Jan. I have seen the high temp o-rings mentioned. I will keep the dampers off the power amp tubes altogether as you suggest Jan, and try them on and off the phono stage since I already have them. Other than that, I'm probably trying to solve a problem I don't have--never a good idea. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12346 Registered: May-04 | . You can probably do better by isolating the entire unit. If you aren't certain whether there's a problem, start with the cheapest, most effective solution for the money spent. For me that's either a bag of squash balls under my pre amp and CD player or a 4-5 squash balls suspended on neopreme pipe caps under my turntable and amplifier. I prefer squash balls to tennis balls but you can buy a bag of either at Target, WallMart or any sporting goods store. The nylon drawstring bag keeps the balls together so the equipment doesn't roll around and you only need to lay the bag o'balls in a single layer under the equipment and give a listen. The single balls under my amps and turntable are sitting on neopreme pipe caps from the plumbing department of any home improvement store. They work a bit like the RollerBall isolation devices except they are quite flexible by comparison to the RollerBall's metal to metal contacts. I buy 1 1/2"/2" caps for each squash ball and buy sufficient numbers for the weight and damping required. If you keep the mechanical vibration away from the equipment, you'll probably not need tube dampers. However, microphonics are an issue with all tubes and some tubes are simply more prone to air-borne feedback than others. Some equipment benefits from sitting directly on the balls and some (my CD player) work best when the balls are under another supporting surface for the equipment (several layers of MDF with damping between each layer) which allows transformer vibration to be sunk into a dense, massive base. Experiment, it will only cost a few dollars compared to the audio aftermarket devices. I've outfitted my entire system for under $50. If you find success with the cheap stuff, then you have a base for comparison when you try the expensive stuff. I find a differnce in results when using either tennis balls to squash balls and prefer the smaller of the two. I think you'll find a noticeable improvement in SQ even if you don't think you have a microphonics problem. . |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1160 Registered: May-06 | Great, now I have to go out and buy squash balls to see what if any difference there is and if I like them or the tennis balls better. In addition to what Jan posted above, weighting down the equipment may also reap benefits. Per Jan's recommendation I have 4 lead diver weights (3 lbs. each) on my pre-amp. They sit on 2" by 1/2" by 3/4" (approximately) wooden Jenga tiles. This has helped immensely with the harmnonics, more than even the O rings on the phono stage tubes. I tried weights on the CD player and it was not happy. I cannot put weights on the Linn TT due to its suspension. I have not messed with my tuner yet. (Somehow I see it getting tennis balls or squash balls, whatever the CD player liked less.) |
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Bronze Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 63 Registered: Dec-07 | Thanks Jan. I have heard squash balls mentioned before, but this makes it clearer. My amp has large soft rubber feet about 1-inch thick which I think isolates it pretty well, but of course it depends on the surface it sits on as well. My CDP has plastic spikes, so may benefit in the arrangement you mention using intermediate surfaces. Good advice and the price is right. Now how do I get those squash balls past my three golden retrievers? LOL! |
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Bronze Member Username: AfjGaboroneBotswana Post Number: 40 Registered: Jan-08 | hi guys im a newbie to tube amplifiers. i've heard that the separation of sounds and the overall sound quality that comes through a tube amplifier is better than a solid state amp (pl correct me if im wrong). i've got the jbl studio L890s. 250w output continuous at 8 ohms with sensitivity of 91db. would a tube amp sound better than a solid amp. my option for the solid is the nad c372 |
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Diamond Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12419 Registered: May-04 | . You are simply looking at this all wrong. It is not the output device that makes the amplifier, it is the design and execution of the amplifier that makes the amplifier. Particularly with tubes you can have a very good design but cheap tubes will let down the execution of the amplifier. There are excellent to rotten varities of both solid state and tube - and hybrids have good and bad points also. If you are listening to the performance of your amplifier to decide whether tubes are better or worse than transistors, you'll get tired of that and want to move on to another thrill. Don't worry about what's inside the amplifier as long as it's competently built and listen to the music. If you don't know what live music sounds like, go listen to something performed in front of you before you drop any cash on a hifi. Establish your priorities based on what you hear in live music that entertains you. Prioirities need to be more advanced rationalizations than simply wanting "tight bass" and "clean highs". When you find music in your room that reminds you of music heard live, buy that product. Forget the rest and enjoy the music. . |
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Bronze Member Username: AfjGaboroneBotswana Post Number: 41 Registered: Jan-08 | thanks jan that made a lot of sense. its easier to understand when put that way. im happy with the speakers - on different amps different ranges of the music (highs mids and lows) sounded really good. but no amp i;ve used has had it all. i'm looking at the nad c372 now. i;ve heard it on other speakers and liked the amp. havent been able to hear it on the jbls though. guess im in for that now |
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Bronze Member Username: CrazywaderPost Number: 16 Registered: May-07 | Francis, After a lot of time listening to individual components, I bought a NAD C372 paired with Totem Forests and am extremely happy. I tend to listen to a lot of jazz (Spyro Grya - keyboards, guitar, sax, David Sanborn - sax - Winton Marsalis - trumpet, George Benson & Norah Jones vocal w/ instrument accompanyment) and orchestra (Yo-Yo Ma - cello). Just as if they were performing in front of you, you can hear the discrete nuances of the music with no loss or hollowness in bass, the separation in percussion instruments, the soft and hard strokes in a piano, and slide of fingers across strings. However, the CDs I listen to (source: Rega Apollo) must have different recording levels - and you can quickly discern the good from bad CD's (maybe I should have learned more about SACD and reel-to-reel) - yet another factor in what you hear. The response of solid-state differs from tubes measurably. W. G. Dow, in Fundamentals of Engineering Electronics, writes, "...for any type of vacuum tube, the characteristic curves for any one individual tube may be expected to differ appreciably from the published average characteristics applying to that tube type." Yet it's amazing that the tube amplifier continues to produce a warm sound that brings life to music that draws so many followers over the newer stuff. I'm looking to add an integrated tube amp just for the joy of owning and enjoying a way of reproducing music 'differently.' Will it sound "live?" I think every time I listen to a piece of music I hear something I missed before and I suspect it won't be any different with a tube amp. I doubt I'll ever hear Yo-Yo Ma any better than being in front of him but my system allows me to hear stuff I've missed in the concert hall (8 rows from him and I still hear stuff on the CD I didn't hear at the concert!) I would guess the others on this board would support me in suggesting that you find a way to listen to as many different individual pieces of equipment that you're interested in with the style of music you prefer. Take your time and enjoy it. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10058 Registered: Dec-04 | Good post, GT |
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Bronze Member Username: AfjGaboroneBotswana Post Number: 48 Registered: Jan-08 | greg what you described is exactly what im looking for. apart from separation of instruments and all those good things, what i really like is being able to 'feel' the hardness or softness of strokes on an instrument - the forcefulness or softness of the singer - and not just it being an increase and decrease in volume coming through the speakers. if the nad can do that im more than happy. i've got the t163 pre amp and getting the 272 this week |
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Bronze Member Username: LamcamStanton, Ca Usa Post Number: 70 Registered: Nov-07 | I just bought a Prima Luna Prologue II. I am running 8 ohm speakers but the sale person recommended to the 4 ohm speaker outputs in the back of the amp. Just wonder why? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12600 Registered: May-04 | . Speakers are spec'd as a "nominal" load, meaning they should be "X" Ohms over most of their frequency range. They do have peaks and dips which will inlfluence how they mate to amplifiers. Tube power amplifiers have higher output impedances than most solid state amplifiers and therefore are more "reactive" to the load of the speaker. Dropping the connection to the 4 Ohm tap lowers the ouput impedance slightly making the amp/speaker a less reactive pairing. I suppose that's why the salesperson made the suggestion. Of course, the salesperson may have been talking out of their @ss. Did you ask the salesperson why this would be beneficial? . |
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Bronze Member Username: LamcamStanton, Ca Usa Post Number: 71 Registered: Nov-07 | He told me over the phone that I should connect the wire to the 4 ohm although I told him that my speakers are 8 ohm! I did not ask him why at that time. |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 196 Registered: Oct-07 | Silly question:: How do the tube guys CHECK tubes? In the 'old days', the local grocery, drug store or multi mart had a Tube Checker. Real handy when the TV went south. BUT, I haven't seen one in 20 years or longer. Now that tubes are sort of scarce, what do you do? Just curious. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12601 Registered: May-04 | . Two options that I know of. 1) Take or send the tube to a shop that repairs tube electronics, possibly somebody in your neighborhood who screws around with tubes. Ask around some of the audio clubs if they exist in your area or a ham radio club. 2) Swap the tube with a known good tube. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10162 Registered: Dec-04 | 2) is the usual, but 1) is handy to accomplish 2). Where ya been, Leo? How's the amp? |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2778 Registered: Dec-03 | Me Oh I use one of the 9 tube testers I have! |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 197 Registered: Oct-07 | Working MAJOR hours, Nuck, thanks for asking. They gave me a project to measure thin films using X-Ray Fluorescense. I can't even spell it and don't have the math. Talk about being set up to fail, but I have already made more progress than the REAL (degreed) engineer that got FIRED over this and other omissions. On the other hand, I live Urban and can probably think of 3 or 4 non-hi end shops to get a tube tested. I know a few hams (thanks Jan, hadn't thought of that!) and at least 2 electronic repair guys, one of whom is fixing my neighbors Vacuum Tube Zenith (the quality went in, before the name went on) Trans Oceanic. But what does that do for the poor schmuck who lives in Boise City Oklahoma? Any of the old Heathkit or Knight Kit stuff out there? Kegger, Nothing succeeds like Excess! good answers, all. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12603 Registered: May-04 | . Hey, Kegger. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2779 Registered: Dec-03 | Hey Jan, and everyone still hangin around here. Ok OK 9 may be a bit much, how bout more like say 4? Just pointing out many have there own tube testers now. And a long day yesterday, work, golf, then the wings rockin!! ------------------------- Yu'all know what time it is? AKFEST 08 is upon us. http://www.akfest.com/ I've got some cool things I'll have there, I'll post a link to a writeup with pics when it's over and done. (Shh Rick doesn't know it yet, but his "kegafied"Jolida will be there) And my new scratch build amp based off 6AV5 sweep tubes wired in triode. Plus much much more that will make up a great experience, (I hope anyway)! Take care guy's, and gal's! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10164 Registered: Dec-04 | Great to see ya Kegger! |
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Bronze Member Username: CrazywaderPost Number: 18 Registered: May-07 | For the select few who truly appreciate the brilliance of a musician and their work, I have experienced something I thought you might enjoy as much as I did. This past weekend I saw Wynton Marsalis at the Kennedy Center in Washington DC. In addition to him playing he had 13 other musicians. The treat was discovering an instrument that I had never heard before - the bass clarinet! And, it was Joe Temperley (who I understand played in the Duke Ellington band) who played a solo, "A single Petal of a Rose." I picked up a recording of the piece - it's an amazing 3 minutes of bliss drawing some significant depth from the speakers never mind the transformers in your amps. As for my system, it performed wonderfully... but there's nothing better than being 8 rows from a master who had everyone talking afterwards! Hope someone out there can relate! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12643 Registered: May-04 | . Always great to get out and hear the real thing particularly when it's played by the masters of their craft and art. I wish I'd been there. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnWisconsin Post Number: 741 Registered: Dec-06 | It's always great to hear someone speak with passion about a performance they saw/heard. Glad you enjoyed the show, and then were able to find a recording of the piece! |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1318 Registered: May-06 | Bo Diddley R.I.P. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4793 Registered: Dec-03 | Yesterday the right input 12AU7 went down on the Prima Luna PL Two. I have ordered complete set (2 x 12AU7, 2 x AX7, 4 x EL34), total about £100, manufactured by JJ Electronic. http://www.jj-electronic.sk/ ...but with 4 x EL34 in place of the 4 x KT88. The original KT88s still work OK but I've recently noticed a few problems with distortion at higher volumes. So I thought I'd try EL34s. And they are cheaper (For four, £37 compared with £104). On the phone the dealer said EL34s might go into distortion at lower power output that KT88s. Is this correct? That should make it worse... So I'll compare new EL34s with three-year old KT88s and be tube rolling in no time, I expect, even though I said "not for me" early on on this thread. Until delivery, back to transistors. I was quoted £250 for a complete Prima Luna set to replace the originals, and £600 for the EAT "upgrade". That's a lot. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12884 Registered: May-04 | . Tubes aren't cheap nowdays, John. Three to four years of heavy use isn't bad for output tubes. You might try giving the amp a good cleaning. Get the tube pins and sockets clean and see if that helps. EL34's don't dissipate as much power as KT88's. As a rule EL34's are used in no more than a 50 watt amp with a quartet in place. KT88's can push up to 125 watts with a quartet if they are run fairly hard. The difference between 50 and 125 watts is how much in SPL? Yes, the amp will clip earlier with EL34's than with KT88's. But all EL34's are not equal. Some will output a bit more and some a bit less. PL should give some indication of approximately how much power you can expect from a generic tube of any type. You do need to make sure the bias voltage on your amplifier is suited to the particular output tubes you have ordered since the PL is a fixed bias amplifier. Some tubes like a bit more bias voltage and some a bit less and you have no simple way to make those adjustments. . |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10621 Registered: Dec-04 | As opposed to the auto-bias that the PL2 provides(?) The El 34's are a good solid tube, but I prefer the Svetlana's, meself. Good solid performance, and a manageable rolloff, depending on what gives up first. Good low power tubes, in matched seta, just don't ask too much in comparison the the KT88's |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12885 Registered: May-04 | . Nuck - I find myself trying to decipher your posts here lately. As to the auto bias feature of the PL, I don't know the limits of that circuit. As far as I know, it's still possible to buy a tube that might fall outside of the available voltage swing in the design. I could be wrong, I don't know PL well enough to say for sure. I'd say it's better to be certain before you put the tubes in the amp and they aren't working up to snuff. It's also a good idea to know the policy of the tube dealer if such a circumstance should arise, or that you just don't like the sound of the tube you thought was perfect by way of its catalog discription. Do you have the option to return the tubes? Not typically. Exchange? Most of the time but not always. One of the features of the auto bias on PL is that matched sets are not important. The amplifier will work with tubes that are not closely matched and you are spending your money for matching just because it makes you feel better. In fact, if John found out it was just one KT88 that was bad, he could buy a single KT88 and put it in his amp and the amp would adjust to the new tube. "The El 34's are a good solid tube, but I prefer the Svetlana's, meself." I don't know what that means. The EL34 is a tube type made by several manufacturers and Svetlana is a tube manufacturer who makes an EL34. Where's the comparison? . |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4794 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Jan and Nuck. Double the power and other things being equal the SPL goes up 3 dB. Multiply power by 2.5 and, um.... Well a bit more than 3 dB but not much. (He said, waving his hand). A few marks for being in the right ballpark...? I had an e-mail from the supplier to say the valves would be dispatched today. So, patience. I'll keep the KT88s and see the difference. But as I said, they are getting on a bit, have some sort of deposit inside the glass. I lugged my Sony ES power amp back from work and plugged it in. Interesting. "Shrill" comes to mind. Also, it behaves like the PLPL 2 on the 8 Ohms taps in that it sends the Quad ESL 63s into overload protection at the merest thwack of a bass drum. Not good. I'll write some more tomorrow. All the best. |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 308 Registered: Oct-07 | Isn't the 'deposit inside the glass' normal? After all, there should be nothing inside a VACUUM tube but the metallic parts, grids, filaments and such. OH, and lots of Electrons! The 'deposit' to which you refer is sputtered metal..from the metal parts which pass current. Sputtering, in tools designed for that purpose, are used in the fabrication of virtually all semiconductor devices, CD/DVD and even car parts. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12886 Registered: May-04 | . Yes, nothing to worry about as far as "some sort of deposit inside the glass" unless it was caused by a tube either overheating or flashing. You would tend to notice the former since the tube would glow bright red and the latter would normally result in some noise through the system. If you're referring to the silvery or bluish deposit at the top of the tube, that's normal and virtually all tubes have that as a result of gasses being evacuated from the tube during the manufacturing process. . |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 309 Registered: Oct-07 | Jan, agreed that a tube malfunctioning, for whatever reason....(running out of limits for tube?) will do odd stuff, usually bad. But, could you please explain how the silvery or bluish deposit results from the tube being pumped out? Now, if it is a discoloration of the envelop caused by....heating the glass to bring it to a point or seal that end, I could see re-crystalization of the glass being a cause. There is ONE other possiblity. In hi-vacuum practice there is something called a getter pump. You can burn something inside the envelop to consume the last of the oxygen. This would discolor the glass, too. Kind of like an old-style flash bulb! There would be a deposit inside the tube. done correctly it may precipitate on the walls, they are cold in comparison and will never, even being abused, get hot enough for that stuff to evaporate again. There should be nothing in a tube but the metal of the filaments/grids/heater. Air should be evacuated to very low levels. Anything else is contamination and will shorten tube life and maybe even change tube parameters. OH, the silvery stuff is from any of the current carrying parts inside the tube. When enough metal has been carried away from a wire filament, it pops. dead tube. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12887 Registered: May-04 | . https://www.tubeworld.com/index_low.htm Click "Tube Research". Various types of deposits: http://thetubestore.com/ehx6l6gc.html http://thetubestore.com/tesla6l6gc.html http://thetubestore.com/tungsol6l6gc.html http://thetubestore.com/jan6l.html . |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4795 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks again, and thanks to Leo. Listened a bit more this evening. I am not going back to solid state. All the KT88s have the same silvery-gray stuff in a round patch in the same place halfway up the inside wall of the glass tube. It wasn't there when they were new, and has accumulated with time. "Sputtering" could be correct. I have no reason to suppose this has any sonic effect. I have a sort of trade off with this system, regardless of source. Dead silence for four seconds on some peaks from one or other channel, versus some distortion at hight levels especially from upper mid-range like choirs or horns. Even harmonic and therefore not actually painful, but not good. The new Quad ESLs have greater power handling. I browsed a bit for info last night but you can buy cars for that price. The Quad ESL63 "Pro" made first for Philips recording engineers and then in production for export to US must have been really something. I am not going back to electromagnetic speakers, either. No way. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4796 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks for the links, Jan. I ordered from these people over this side of the "pond";- http://www.sequoia.co.uk/eshop/browse.php?mc=Other&sc=Thermionic%20Valves&pg=1 The man who kindly called me back seemed to know his stuff. And any friend of Mr Tesla is a friend of mine.... |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 310 Registered: Oct-07 | Good link, Jan, if not quite scientifically accurate. Thin films, and I mean in the sub-micron range, 10,000angstroms and below, will have color fringes based on thickness. In my line of work, I seldom use instruments to tell the thickness anymore, since I can judge film thickness of Silicon Oxide and some Polysilicon films without aid to sufficient accuracy. The rainbows at the edges are just film thickness variations. The only reason to continue to getter something in a vacuum is if there is a leak to atmosphere. Once all the oxygen and other bad guys have been consumed and rendered inert...in some metalic film, there is no reason to continue, and no way to continue, the reactants have nothing to react with... Judging the quality of a tube by the color and quantity of such deposits strikes me as some kind of voodoo. The electrical test at the bottom of the link is of course, the right thing to do. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12889 Registered: May-04 | . "Judging the quality of a tube by the color and quantity of such deposits strikes me as some kind of voodoo." Yep! A better tube is a better tube, doesn't matter what the color of the residue is. When you get down to picking your tubes by color, I'll be in the other room listening to music. . |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 312 Registered: Oct-07 | Yep, coming soon to a boutique store near you:: Tubes in Designer Colors. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4797 Registered: Dec-03 | Tubes arrived. I fitted the whole new set in place of the old. Just wonderful. No distortion; no trip-switches thrown on the speakers. And the sound... There are not words. I remember Rick Barnes said "liquid". That is vaguely in the right direction. Early on in this thread, I inclined to the view that all amps are much the same. This view is total, demonstrable nonsense. The 100 W per channel Sony sounded tinny and lifeless - and took out the speakers. The "entry level" Prima Luna with downgraded EL34 in place of KT88 should give only about 35 W per channel. But it sounds like the real thing -- more scale, depth, richness, nuance, compared with the Sony. And it does NOT take out the amp. Maybe the Sony's power rating more Volts than Amps. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1977 Registered: Nov-05 | Good to see the new tubes worked out for you John. I hope all else is good in your camp. Cheers M.R. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4798 Registered: Dec-03 | Well, it's still under review, M.R. Good to be in touch again. I think I remember Kegger having something to say about EL34s; possibly "warm". I put this to the chap in the shop who commented on the difference between those and KT88s. He said, roughly, he thought that talking about sound of different valves was like discussing the sound of cables.... (smiley) For him, an electronics guy I suppose, the point of a KT88 is that it delivers the most power you can get out of that basic design, and so will deliver more volume that an EL34 for a given amount of distortion. There are several other random observations on the JJ valves/tubes. I be back. All the best. PS Rick and Jan were the two most persuasive tube advocates, as I recall. I thank them, and others. It really is amazing to hear the difference between my two amps. Adjusted for inflation, they are not far from the same price bracket and the Sony, on paper but definitely not to the ears, delivers more power. Probably that should read "voltage" which is why the speakers flip their switch. Whether there is a general rule being followed I have no idea. There must be solid state amps that sound at least as good or better than the PL, and tube amps that sound like rubbish and overload speakers even at moderated volumes. Who knows... |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12895 Registered: May-04 | . The original Quad amp that ran the 57's was only endowed with a few watts, John. It's not the amount as much as the quality of each watt. The idea of lots o'watts and lots o' speaker is hogwash perpetrated by manufacturers of cheap crap. There are systems that require both, but they are ill designed for the task of being transparent to the music IMO. From your brief replay of your conversation with the tube retailer, I would tend to agree. Tubes sound like the circuit they are in and you can't say a tube sounds like "this" or "that" until it's in a circuit. Overall, I'd say an EL34 doesn't sound like a KT88, but don't take "warm" as anything more than the alternative statement that the KT88 is "cold". Neither is necessarily true until it's placed in the circuit your amplifier designer built. On an amplifier with user adjustable bias you could run the bias higher or lower and change a warm sound to a cold sound with a twist of a screwdriver - also affecting the other parts of the amplifier and the reliability of those parts. So, even within the same amp, the same tube can sound unlike itself with a different bias voltage running through it. And your small signal tubes certainly do affect the sound quality. Changing a 12AU7 will make the amp sound not like it did with a different 12AU7 for several reasons. It can be frustrating because everything you change on a tube amp - and some would argue a solid state amp as well - caps, wires, sockets, can make subtle changes to the sound quality. Tube rollers have mulitple sets of tubes and swap until they "tune" to the sound they prefer. Other than financially that's not bad when you have a good sounding amp to start with and a top notch reference for what you want to hear. You can round, or sharpen, the tones of a vocalist or affect the attack of a pianist. The biggest problem comes when you start thinking an entire group of tubes sounds "this way". They don't really, they sound the way they sound once they're in your amplifier. But, you have that ability to tune with a tube amp. What can you do with the Sony? . |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4799 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Jan. Received and understood. Agreed, I do not know which components of the complete set have made the difference. I propose to listen some more, enjoy the music, and then put back the KT88s and see. Bearing in mind: 1. They are KT88s; 2. They are three years old; 3. They are from a different manufacturer (I assume, though the "PrimaLuna" logo on the glass does not tell me who made them). I'll save further speculation until I have a result from that test. One possibility that occurs to me, and please tell me if it is ludicrous, is that the EL34s are uniformly cylindrical in shape, while the KT88s have a larger diameter at the top, looking a bit more like inverted bottles. I would guess the KT88s are therefore more susceptible to microphonic feedback. I suppose I could test this by putting the amp in another room. Random observations for nerds. 1. (Totally trivial) The JJs have the logo printed on the back of the valve/tube as they sit in the Prima Luna. So no advertising is displayed - it faces the transformer housing, not the user. The output valves' seating has the plastic notch towards the back on the PL amplifier, the PL logo therefore being printed on the opposite side of the tube to the notch, and facing the front. The JJ logo is on the same side as the nothc. Which, if either, is standard? 2. Possibly not trivial. With the PL set, the two 12AX7s glowed hardly at all - much less bright than the two 12AU7s. Always, sonce day one. With the JJ set, the 12AX7s glow just as much as the 12AU7s. Looks much nicer nice and better balanced - and this is the "third party" tube. This must in itself have some sonic effect, surely - in the PL set-up, the 12AX7s are generating less light, heat and power that the 12AU7s. 3. Terminology. "12AX7" supplied as "JJ" are named "ECC 83 S". "12AU7" is JJ "ECC 82". Lord knows why. 4. It still sounds darned good. 5. JJ comes from the Slovak Republic (the "other half" of former Czechoslovakia) yet Tesla (which they used to be called) was a well-know Croat. Strange. Reference; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla Totally fascinating. Friend of Mark Twain, for example. And a fruitcake in other aspects of life. Totally irrelevant, of course. I guess I take these things too seriously....! Now it is Sunday and I can do some listening. Best wishes, John PS Sony; Agreed. "Quality" of Watts... Hmm... The only "quality" I can begin to comprehend is that 1 Watt = 1 Amp at 1 Volt So Power (in Watts) = Current (in Amps) x Potential difference (in Volts) So you can have your Watts composed of Amps or Volts in different measure, like area being composed of length and breadth. Now the Quad spec says they go into overload protection at 40 V. By Ohm's Law that would be at 5 W into 8 Ohms and 10 W into 4 Ohms. So I think I am beginning to see why the speakers prefer the 4 Ohm output taps on the amp. Putting it another way -- the Quads prefer their power in Amps. Probably the Sony is reaching its power target in Volts. This doesn't explain the sound, of course... |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12905 Registered: May-04 | . John - Oh, you Europeans! Americans don't know from Croats. You all look alike to us. 1) There is no standard. My Mac amps, being push pull with one output tube per channel seeing a reversed phase, have the tubes one way and then reversed in the position of the socket. It makes for cleaner internal wiring in the McIntosh circuitry. 2) No real sonic effect. The tubes are what they are. Some tubes glow brightly and some do not. If the 12AX7 is downstream of the 12AU7, then there might be a slight change in the relative levels of current heading to the 12AX7. If the 12AX7 is ahead of the 12AU7, then the 12AX7 should not see what the later tube is doing. As an integrated, one set of tubes is dedicated to the pre amp functions and won't have much effect on the power amp side of the unit where the other small signal tubes reside as driver tubes. Though a 12AU7 has a gain factor of 20 (12AX7/100) no two tubes are exactly alike. Most tubes that come from one design batch will be close to one another but two 12AU(X or T)7's from different manufacturers or even different designs of the same model of tube by the same company are likely to have slightly different gain characteristics. I just swapped out the 12AX7 phase inverters in my amplifiers and had a substantial change in gain from what should be a fairly benign tube in that circuit. 3) The "12" series tubes are using American production numbers. The "EC" tubes are European in manufacturing origin and basic design. They are interchangebale for the most part. 6550's become KT88's, 6L6's become KT66's. There are some variations in the design and construction of a 12AX7 vs. a EC83 and even a 83ECC. Tube afficianadoes go gaga over which tube has such and such a number and which tube has a certain color base. The largest problem here, as I see it, is there are unscrupulous dealers of NOS tubes who rebrand tubes to be something they are not or simply lie to an unsuspecting customer about what they are selling. It gets down to knowing that certain plants for a specific manufacturer always placed a triangle stamped into the bottom of the tube's glass envelope. Some Mullards/Ampex/RCA, etc. were sold under another company's name and some were sold in bulk as white box tubes. A really knowledgeable tube retailer or hunter of tubes can usually find a white box Mullard/Ampex/RCA etc. by looking closely at the tube. They pay less for a quality tube because the name isn't on the tube. It gets to be a big game after awhile. My rule is don't chase the exotic stuff and always buy from a reputable dealer with whom you feel a trust. Not a recommendation, just an example; http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6dj8.html The Quads probably prefer the 4 Ohm tap because it better matches the input impedance of the Quad's transformer. Quad's do require some current, if you'll remember the original Quad circuit was a "current dumping" type which is still in use today although rearranged for transistors. The reissue of the Quad 22 uses the same circuit as Walker's original and is, from what I understand, still suited to the entire Quad line of speakers though limited in output watts to roughly 20-25 watts. While tubes are current driven devices they are not high current output devices. Probably your Sony has more current potential than the PL, it just can't deliver it with the capability of the PL. I can't remember seeing a spec on the PL for current delivery but I would expect it to produce no more than 3-5 amps at 8 Ohms depending in some part on the tube compliment. . |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4800 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, Many thanks. Interesting. Requires thought. Will be back. Definitely. Correction of my last post... "Now the Quad spec says they go into overload protection at 40 V. By Ohm's Law that would be at 5 W into 8 Ohms and 10 W into 4 Ohms". Please delete "W" and replace with "A". Sorry about that!. Ohms = Volts/Amps The speakers go silent and present a dead short to the amp at 40 V. This must be 200 W at 8 Ohms (5 A) and 400 W at 4 Ohms (10 A). So the amp reaches the speakers' overload voltage at twice the current with output for 4 Ohms than with output for 8 Ohms. Will pause and reflect on Jan's informed previous post. "Europeans all look alike". Americans. No wonder Wesley Clarke would have tipped us into WW3 in Kosovo, if not for the insubordination of Mike Jackson.... Best wishes. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12906 Registered: May-04 | . Wesley Clarke was flying the planes so high he couldn't see that you all look alike. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4801 Registered: Dec-03 | Sigh... He wasn't flying planes, but sitting in an office giving other folks orders to block the runway at Pristina airport. Thanks for the information, Jan. I had a brief attack of HiFi dissatisfaction and upgrade hunger last week. I think I'm over it, now. At the peak of the infection I checked out the current Quad tube amps and ESL speakers. Expensive. I think I'll stick with what I've got. The complete set of new tubes alone was the end of distortion and overload, even at higher volumes than before. Wonderful. I'll try to figure out which part of the set did it by a process of elimination, over time. Depending on the outcome, I'll consider KT88s. I am comfortable with JJ and that dealer I mentioned. I can't find much evidence of actual shops in the sense of retail premises one can walk into and ask advice. Anyway, if sequoia.co.uk will phone back with knowledge and advice, and deliver next day, that's a recommendation. HiFi seems to be an area where people like to congregate around names, logos, and the colour of the box, even when the thing inside is, in itself, the same. I also found this link on extant tube manufacturers as of December 2005;- http://www.vacuumtube.com/Mfg.htm Good to see there are still US ones. As regards PrimaLuna, they seem a slightly at the edge of sanity, but who cares. If it works, which it does, I'll keep it. The build quality suggests longevity, and the PL2 would probably have withstood Wes Clarke on active service. PL have quite a wider range now, including monoblocs and so on. I'd like to install the phono stage eventually. Perhaps I'll try separates, one day. Casual inspection suggests they change tubes and give the result a new model number. US Web site includes pdf files of owner manuals etc; http://www.primaluna-usa.com/ |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12908 Registered: May-04 | . Most of the electronics manufacturers who use tubes strip the name off the tubes they buy and have their own name resilk screened. Even some tube retailers such as Groove Tubes do the same thing. The "people who brought you PL" have a new higher end product line with a new name. I've seen a few ads starting to appear in Stereophile and TAS. I'll find the ad and post the name. . |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4802 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Jan. I thought I'd replied but it is not here. Groove Tubes are JJ Tubes according to the first link in my last post. Going back; "I can't remember seeing a spec on the PL for current delivery". I can't find that in the manual. There is Stereophile review of the PL1 (with its EL34 output tubes) with Atkinson test results and Dudley waxing lyrical about performance with Quad ESLs... http://www.primaluna-usa.com/reviews/stereophilepro1.pdf |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12909 Registered: May-04 | . Just to clarify the point, Groove Tubes is primarily a tube reseller. They are not a tube manufacturer such as Svetlana or JJ. They buy up lots of tubes and rebrand them after testing and categorizing them. They began back in the late 1970's and their clientelle was then and is now primarily musicians. My first set of replacement tubes I ever bought for the Macs were Groove Tubes all the way from phase splitter to outputs. (I think that retube cost me about $200 for two amplifiers back in 1982.) Recently, they have had existing companies manufacture tubes for their line and these are relabelled as GT's, from what I understand there are even some tubes manufactured exclusively for GT. I haven't shopped GT lately but perviously they had a system of testing that was really aimed at musicians which determined the point of overdrive (distortion) on a bell curve type comparison and it's amount as the tube went into clipping. This information is important to a musician looking for a particular sound from their amplifier. What this meant to me, in a home audio application, was I could choose output tubes that "sounded" more like classic tubes or more like classic transistors. The scale is 1-10 and I don't remember what I chose 26 years ago, I think I went with an "8". They were not the best sounding tubes I've ever used but they did quite well and I do still have the set as backups. . |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4803 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Jan. I should have written "Some Groove tubes are JJ tubes". There is clearly a place for resellers. Personally I'd rather know who actually made stuff. "PrimaLuna" tubes are expensive and obviously made somewhere else. There is also an "EAT" "upgrade" that comes in a stylish wooden box, like champagne. http://www.euroaudioteam.com "Made in Czech Republic" and, according to Kessler "the valve equivalent of Viag_ra". http://www.euroaudioteam.com/pdfs/eat_kt88_hfn_0705_4web.pdf Double sigh... Meanwhile, in the real world.... |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12910 Registered: May-04 | . "There is also an "EAT" "upgrade" that comes in a stylish wooden box, like champagne." The deal is what you believe it to be, John, not what you pay. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4804 Registered: Dec-03 | I'd say the deal is neither of those. The deal is what it is. Admittedly things get in the way of finding out. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1421 Registered: May-06 | This is an off-shoot from Tawaun Williams' thread "What has everyone bought since I've been gone,and what direction is everyone going?" as this has occurred after TW's OP, but here goes anyway.  I alluded to earlier (on another thread) that JV provide me a host of 12AX7's for messing around with my pre-amp. I put the Golden Dragon in my phono gain stage and was taken aback by the difference. Well I discussed this a bit, read a bit more, got the buyer beware, someone's reject bin, yadda yadda yadda, level setting advice. Trusting my sources I decided to exercise caution when buying tubes for tube rolling. I called Rogue Audio directly and spoke with Mark O'Brien today. I figured they had to try different tubes in their gear and for reason of cost or whatever, settled on the JAN Phillips 12AX7 pair and 12AU7 pair and some Russian 6SN7s (set of 4). I was not exactly right. They put in what sounded good and would be convenient for their clients to buy new. In discussing what I liked and did not like about the Golden Dragons Mark mentioned RCAs, Sylvanias, Tung-Sols, and maybe one or two others. After more discussion about characteristics and such I bought a complete new set of tubes for my pre-amp. All Tung-Sols, all original 40 year old Russian tubes. He is testing them in their shop's Magnum 99 and will ship them tomorrow. He says I will really like the improvement. Next week cant' get here fast enough. Plus I have these other 12AX7s to play with later!!! I just love this sport! |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1985 Registered: Nov-05 | Well, if you get good enough Mike, the next Olympics is only 4 yrs away! [grin] Bet Mark is glad he's finally getting rid of that 40 yr old stock! [double grin] Kidding aside - glad you're having so much fun with your gear. It'll be good to hear the outcome. Cheers M.R. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10676 Registered: Dec-04 | That is going to give you a whole different sound, Mike. I hope you like it. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 236 Registered: Dec-07 | Two tubes shy of a decathlete by my count, MR. My rig uses Russian 6SN7s (Electro-Harmonix). Mike, there's something strangely cool about using Russian tubes. I like the sound and it took no time at all to get used to that second click when I pick up the phone. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1436 Registered: May-06 | Priceless Neil! I got all excited today when the receptionist told me I had a Fed-Ex box up front. Turned out it was a vendor shipping me a couple of replacement parts. Arghh! The wait continues. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1437 Registered: May-06 | Wait is over! Now how often does that happen? This is going to be a helluva weekend!!!! I think... |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10704 Registered: Dec-04 | Why do I imagine my phone ringing during sax for a tube review?.... hehehe, let us know Mike, it will take a few days, just like the Svets I put in my little amp |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1438 Registered: May-06 | You really did mean sax I hope? Doh!!! |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1446 Registered: May-06 | The Tung-Sols were delivered and boy am I ever glad I went to Rogue Audio and worked this out with their Engineer Mark O'Brien. Not only did they test out the tubes again prior to shipping them to me he labeled each of the tube boxes as to its individual proper placement in my Rogue Audio Magnum 99 Pre-Amp. This company's idea of Customer Service is gold! The tubes made a significant change in my sound, much more than I could have anticipated. The soundstage grew laterally and while the back stayed in place the front of the soundstage is closer, with the height about 6 inches higher. The bass was tighter (incredible the snap in drums on 10,000 Days [Tool]), it does not drop as deep by about 5 Hz. The pacing of the bass has improved as well. The vocals seem more natural and relaxed. Instruments, while given more independence in space, time better with one another, creating a better sense of the performance for me. I do not get the highest peak in the treble range, but I get a cleaner, more engaging horn and string presentation. It took a bit for me to figure this last part out, but the tubes are quieter than the ones they replaced. When I realized how much so it was embarrassing that I did not pick up on this right away. I am very pleased with this upgrade and damned glad I went to the manufacturer, Rogue Audio, for their input, and ultimately the purchase of the tubes from them. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10745 Registered: Dec-04 | Excellent Mike! It is seldom that you have to give up so little for such a pleasant result. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1457 Registered: May-06 | Sadly... Richard Wright, a founder member of Pink Floyd, has died at the age of 65 after battling cancer. http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hWIGm5l-yoyRo6pTklrXqJB3BnmA |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4808 Registered: Dec-03 | To follow up, as promised, from Aug 11. One of the "matched quad" of EL34s was suspect from day one having a visibly misaligned grid. Last weekend it introduced distortion into whichever channel it was on. I e-mailed the supplier http://www.sequoia.co.uk/ No reply to date. Clearly the premium for "matched quad" sets is not their department. Nor, for that matter, customer service. This confirms all my concerns about internet ordering. They have my money; I have their defective product. Never mind, this is another story.... Meanwhile, I re-installed the original "PrimaLuna"-badged KT88 output valves/tubes. Result? Wonderful sound. I really think this system I have is now as close to reality as I could ever get. Indistinguishable from the first impression with the EL34s. So it must have been one or more of the input valves/tubes that needed replacement. Ask me for a breakdown in the difference between the sound from EL34 and KT88 and I could make things up, but not actually report anything I could hear. I seem to recall Kessler said "like the difference between pepsi and coke (if you catch my drift" so I assume he would prefer to advertise his recreational habits at the expense of saying anything intelligible about the subject in question, and so he probably can't hear any difference either. Oh, for good old-fashioned audio dealers. Apologies for interrupting. Sorry to hear about Richard Wright. Best wishes. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1999 Registered: Nov-05 | Glad you have it back to enjoyability John. Ah, the beauty of a quality solid state amp . . . . . . excuse me while I don my fire suit |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13018 Registered: May-04 | . That's the problem with you Aussies, no sense of adventure. Give me an amp that sparks, spits and throws flame now and again over one that just sits there. Excuse me now, I have to help synchronize the three side draft carburetors on my friend's '61 MG Midget - if he can get it started. Now that's adventure! Then we're going hang gliding in a hurricane. Live it on the edge, guys, you only go 'round once. . |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2002 Registered: Nov-05 | Naw Jan - living on the edge is what we do when we're not listening to music. Now where did I put my croc skinning knife? A 61 Midget - that would be a bug eye model would it not? I craved those in my youth but ended up getting a B a few years later. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4809 Registered: Dec-03 | Bought a Triumph Spitfire Mk III, myself. Ah, the fond memories of applying rubber tubing to the lug 'ol to assess the intensity of the hiss from each of the twin SU carburetors whilst adjusting the mixture. Looking back, I think I should have gone for a Mk I MG Midget aka (over here) Austin-Healey "Frog-Eye" Sprite. Regrets, I've had a few.... Lucky to be alive after driving that thing. Really. MR - you had an MGB? I used to dream of an MGB.... Anyway, this hifi I have is brilliant and I am sticking on pontoon. Son made a birthday card with a picture of me adjusting the volume wearing the regulation fireproof suit with Mrs A standing by with an extinguisher. I now run the amp without the safety cage. It scares the cats, too. Thanks for comments. Good to see you, Jan and MR. By the way, the LCD TV died. Good. I dance on its grave. After 6 weeks of no TV I convinced them I was temporarily sane and we bought a projector. Optoma 720p HD. Mounted (by me) on ceiling; projecting onto wall. Very fine. 82" screen, fraction of the cost of one of those hideous plasmas. And when it's turned off, there's nothing there. Just a wall, and the music. Whole family agrees this is the way. This all required total rearrangement of speakers, cabling, etc etc. Audio now better that ever. Fits the room better. Wrong thread, I know. All the best. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10902 Registered: Dec-04 | A tip of my hat to you, John. Excellent choice in the projector, however many bundle of snakes of techno-tripe that invovlves(or could). You seem on top of it mate, so break out the popcorn! Enjoy the fun, our friend, but do not neglect the Quads. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2006 Registered: Nov-05 | That's right John - it was the bug-eye Sprite I was thinking about. My dream car early in my youth was the Austin-Healey 6. The MG was a '67 model, the first here with Overdrive and was immaculate. Unfortunately we got it not long before Mrs R fell pregnant. When she was about 8 months, she couldn't get out (it had Recarro buckets) and she had to roll out into the gutter. Needless to say she wasn't impressed and a second car was purchased the next week. Then, with a new baby, a dog etc, etc, the B had to go. It brought a tear to my eye I can tell you. My brother had a TC at one stage, rough as gutz but it sure looked good! Good call with the projector. Big, big picture. We have been enjoying Blu-ray here with what titles are available. Music system is good and will remain as is for some time, though trying to make music is lessening my listening time. Love to see that card John! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4810 Registered: Dec-03 | Nuck, Thanks! "do not neglect the Quads." No way! I'm in it for the sound. Video can, admittedly, sometimes add that little bit extra to lifelike sound. I can be a definite plus in movies, for example..... Well, some movies.... M.R. Thanks, too! There was an Austin-Healey 3000 (meaning cc) - even better than the MGB. "6" probably means cylinders, so I think those may have been two names for the same car. MGB was a 4-cylinder 1800 as I recall. My cousin had one but gave it up for the same reasons as you. I'll try to find the card. Sorry to ramble, I should be posting on Old Dogs, but back to topic (slightly).... Youngest son (14; the one who teases his elders and betters about valve amps) took delivery this morning of a Vox 30 W amp for his Epiphone guitar. I was not consulted!. Point is, blow me down, the amp has a valve/vacuum tube, a 12AUX, takes time to warm up, has an output transformer, plus, in the middle, a digital processor fed a signal from a 24 bit ADC. Purpose of the processor is to emulate 11 different classic guitar amps. The manual specifies which ones, and itemizes the valves/tube each contained. So take that, all tubophobes...! When did anyone design a valve amp to make it sound like solid-state....? http://www.voxamps.co.uk/valvetronix/ To my ears, the processor on some settings creates exactly the sound my PrimaLuna PL2 gave when the input tubes were shot.... So Vox needs to collaborate with Korg to produce a solid-state processor to emulate the sound of clapped-out tubes....? "You couldn't make it up". I'll try and find a picture. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10906 Registered: Dec-04 | John, so many players work long and hard to exaust the tubes and get the 'right' sound. Doesn't last for long, but hopefully the engineer gets the tracks down before the tubes kack. MR, 'rough as gutz' reminded me of high school days, trying to tune twin solex side drafts to propel the little TC in its own retina-seperating washboard fashion. Anyone who drove it too much might be in need of a surgeon or test tube to have kids. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13022 Registered: May-04 | . "John, so many players work long and hard to exaust the tubes and get the 'right' sound. Doesn't last for long, but hopefully the engineer gets the tracks down before the tubes kack." Gatemouth Brown figured it out in the '50's and taught it to those white blues players in England in the '60's. It's part of the Texas Blues sound that he pioneered after the second WW. It's called "overdrive". Overload the front end of the amp with too much input/gain and it sounds very much like "clapped out" tubes. Very rough and no real distinction between EL34's and KT88's but it's a start until you can afford something with valves (not the MG kind of valves). That little Danelectro amp I have has only three controls; volume, tone and gain. The owners manual has a dozen suggestions for how to emulate the generic sound of various amplifiers by using the position of these three pots. At 2 1/2 watts it's not totally convincing if you try to sound like Clapton, Page or Buddy Guy playing through a 100 watt tubed Marshall stack but those three knobs do work an amazing amount of change into the amplifier's sound. I also own a smaller version of the Vox amp your son owns, John, and it too does some amazing things with its simple controls running through an impressive-for-the price digital simulator. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R8H8CNjjXo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGaJAmnSW7Y . |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10907 Registered: Dec-04 | Cool, JV. A kid I knew had a set of pedals for a lot of stuff as well, but never really got 'clapped out' just right. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4811 Registered: Dec-03 | Oh, wow. Here I was typing thanks to Nuck for recollections of an MG TC ... Thanks, Nuck! Cool, Jan! I'm going to ask son's permission to post video clip. His first shot with the Vox VT30. Meanwhile, a still....  By the way, just a glimpse of a Quad ESL63 to right of frame.... As you see, we live in a time warp. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10911 Registered: Dec-04 | Make anything of the time that you have John. Seems your boys survived the MG thing, LOL! Post away, John. The thread will be what it is. I wanna see MR and his axe. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2007 Registered: Nov-05 | No way Nuck! John, I almost bought a similar amp, but got the Vox AC15 - it's an incredibly powerful (and heavy) all valve beast with distortion up the wazoo with ajustments to the master volume and gain controls. Wonderful amp! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10912 Registered: Dec-04 | I know the answer, but will put forth the question anyhow. How can we mostly all enjoy accurate reproduction of our favorite music, yet value so highly the distortion that makes some of it so special? And creating the distortion so pleasing, yet trying so hard to reproduce it so faithfully? Thankfully, when people think I am strange, I can seek solice here. |
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