(Disclaimer: I realize that dollars spent does not always equate with quality and that there are many good buys and bad buys out there. For the sake of this question, just assume that it is you who will be spending the 10k and that, naturally, you would be looking for value as much as possible).
I am seeking opinions on how one might allocate funds for components when building a 2- channel system from scratch. All items would be purchased used. Also please think in terms of a solid state system, with the exception of a tube choice for the preamp. Lastly, I would like opinions on this based on putting together separates, so no integrateds in this scenario.
Also operate from the standpoint of having 5k to play with. You can indicate the dollar amount you would spend on each component, or, if you prefer, the percentage of the 5k you would spend on each component. Let's leave the cost of interconnects & speaker wire out of the equation. This will be for all kinds of music, save classical & jazz, with vinyl playback being a bit more important than CDs. Room size 14x21 x8 high.
The components in this case will be:
Preamp (tube) Amp Speakers (floorstanding pair) Turntable Cartridge (MM or MC, it's your money, spend it how you want) Phono Stage CD player
I have recently jumped into this hobby/obsession and have my own (albeit limited) ideas about how to distribute my money to various components (i.e. and this is just a neophyte's wild guess): speakers 30% preamp 25% amp 15% turntable 10% cd player 10% cartridge 5% phono stage 5%
Mainly I am very interested in what folks who have had lots of experience have to say about this. All input appreciated!
I think you're over-analyzing everything. If you have an idea about what sounds good to you (or what you think will sound good) - start there. Some start with a pre/pro combo - others start with speakers. Most systems are in a state of flux. In my own journey; there have been times the cost of my amps have exceeded the cost of my speakers - other times it's been the other way around. It just depended on what part of the system I was upgrading.
I realize this probably doesn't help but I don't know that many people who have put that much thought into it. Remember it's not about the money - it's about the music.
FWIW - $5k wouldn't begin to cover a single component in my dream system...lol
Allocating funds/percentages is debated ad nauseum, either explicitly or implicitly, on pretty much every forum. Everyone has different percentages, and they somewhat reflect their priorities. Some individual components are over priced for their performance, while others are under priced. For $5k, new or used, you should be able to get a great sounding system that'll last a long time.
The best advice is to listen to entire systems with dealers. Get familiar with how they're putting systems together and what the cost percentages are. You can always spend more in one area and less in others, but their complete systems are usually pretty realistic in terms of pairing up equal level components.
First, how did you decide on a budget? Just the max you have to spend or what someone told you would be the 'right' amount?
I suspect that with some combinations of equipment, such as an integrated with good phono stage, many cables would not have to be purchased and a substantial dollar savings would happen. This would be only a small compromise, since for your budget you won't get 'ultimate weapons' grade phono/TT/Cart/Amp/pre combo.
For 5 large, you can assemble a very decent system, especially choosing pre owned gear.
10% on a CD player? That's only 500$. Used Apollo? Save some loot with a used Rotel? New NAD or CA?
And, what makes you think you need floor standers? Another approach which may work is a pair of standmount / monitors and a good sub. The sub could carry over as you (eventually) upgrade the speakers.
Take Stu's advice and go listen to some complete systems. You may find a simpler solution which will satisfy your music bug.
If you worry about dream systems, go to audiogon, look at 'All Out Assault' systems and get back to this forum. The amount some people spent goes WAY past obscene, to at least profane.
If I had $5k, was starting from scratch, and wanted the best sounding and least hassle system, I'd take a serious look at these -
Naim Uniti Rega RS3
I haven't heard the Naim Uniti, but I have heard the Nait 5i and CD5i. The Uniti is bacisally those (the new italic version), a DAC, a radio (FM and internet), and music streamer in one package. Talk about simple, flexible, and great sounding (reportedly). Only 1 shelf space and does everything except video. Add a DVD player and connect its audio digital output to the Uniti.
If there's anything as simple, versitile, and as good sounding is it seems, I'd like to hear about it. The Uniti costs $3750, which ain't cheap, but adding up everything makes it pretty cost effective in my mind. I've got to hear the thing. Who knows, maybe I'll sell the entire system (minus the speakers) to fund it.
It seems to me like you're over-thinking things a bit ds. I don't think you can really break things down into a formula, or spending ratios. Like the other guys mentioned, getting out and listening to stuff is your best bet. Maybe you don't even need a separate pre and power amp. Lots of really good, affordable tube integrateds out there, or if you want to go the SS route, you can't go wrong with a Bryston B-60 or something similar.
I would checkout emotiva, adcom or outlaw and possibly the lower priced NAD's. I think emotiva is the most affordable high end out there that's well designed. You might want to check out grant fidelity from canada as well. they make very good integrated tubes and other equipments.
if all else fails, just buy BOSE, at least with bose when you know things don't work well, you can blame bose. If you were to get mcintosh, conrad johnson, audio research, mark levinson, meridian and speakers like duevel, focal, snell, B&W, mark & daniels, wilson, YG, pipedreams, genesis, magico, avan garde, audio transmission, german physiks, von shweikert, etc. IF IT FAILS TO PLEASE YOU, then you wouldn't know beforehand you have WASTED your money,but with BOSE, you know you WASTED your money, so there's no surprise! kidding on everything of course!!! everyone in high end picks on bose just about!
Speakers are typically the weakest link in a system as they have the highest inherent distortion. I'd spend the bulk of my money on the speakers and amplificiation (especially the preamp, if you're going with separates). Don't underestimate the benefits a good preamp can provide. The amp and speakers are the engine and delivery system. Personally, I like an amp and speakers that have as little impact as possible on the incoming source - true to source is my motto.
Source components I would line up next. For digital sources the healthy trend is towards DAC's. Analogue sources i.e. turntables are very affordable and can provide a real bang for your buck, as far as getting you closer to a source that sounds "real".
I agree with George, if you do decide to go with separates a good pre-amp can make an astonishingly huge difference in a system. I just upgraded to a Bryston BP-25 and have been pretty surprised at the difference it made.
I agree with the preamp a main factor, no matter how good your amp is, if you're preamp is not properly matched or doesn't have the design to blend with your amp and speakers, the full potential of your amplifier, speaker and source will deminish. It really boils down to equipment matching which many seasoned audiophiles would advise. From my experience, there really is NO one gear that does it all. All the components have to be there. You can have a good preamp, amp combo, but if your speaker is terribly designed with lots of resonances and feedback, you will be like all the people constantly changing their loudspeakers. The problem with most of us is that our search for audio nirvana is limited to the size of our budget. A lot of music enthusiast cannot afford a bryston, a conrad johnson, mark levinson, audio research, mcintosh, krell and many others in that league. So we're stuck with what we can afford or whenever we get lucky and a good deal on a used item. That is why audiogon is my favorite to look for used high end gear. Choosing BRYSTON is a very good choice. I like the sound of tubes, so having both tube and solid state is my preference since I have both.