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New member Username: GioPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-04 | Hi This is my first post here. I'm considering going with Paradigm Reference Studio 100v3 to replace Studio 60 v3, in order to get better bass extension and possibly faster bass. Wondering if my room (11ft x 21ft) is large enough to handle large speakers like the 100s ? thx Gio |
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New member Username: GioPost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-04 | Well, I sent an email to Paradigm and here's what I got : Hi Georges It should be possible to achieve excellent sound using the Studio 100 v.3 in a room this size. There isn't a standard "ideal" set of distances for positioning the speakers because the room's acoustics (which vary from one room to the next) play a significant role in the resulting sound. Some time and effort experimenting with different positions is needed to find where they perform best in your particular room. I suggest marking the various locations with pieces of numbered masking tape and keep notes to make it easier to go back to whichever spots sounded best. As with the Studio 60, a good starting position is 8 inches or more away from the wall behind them and at least a foot away from the side walls. The Studio 100's should be separated from each other by about 2/3 of the distance that they are away from the main seating area. Thanks for choosing Paradigm speakers. Sincerely, Gary Takeda Paradigm Technical Support Pretty much answers my question. BTW I got a reply within 24 hours. Gio |
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Silver Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 147 Registered: Apr-04 | Gary Takeda has a fast turnaround time responding to e-mail questions, based on the activity of his emails from me and you. If you like the sound of the Studio 100v3, enough to justify the upgrade from 60's, I would mention that I see the 100 v3 used on audiogon and e-bay, with enough of a discount to justify the shipping costs that might be involved. But that entire thing is a topic for individuals to decide. Having auditioned the 100's in version 1,2 and 3 at different places with different source amps etc - I don't hear what all the uproar is about. I found the 100's sound largely disappointing. I thought the bass was unrefined and overwhelming, I found the midrange to be largely unfocused and "drifty" and the upper end was not at all clean, tight, or coherent. An option, might be cables and interconnect upgrades and a subwoofer then you could keep your 60's; speakers that I thought had many sonic virtues over their larger brother. Subwoofer bass outperforms cabinet bass nine times out of ten. In my opinion and experience, you'll need an amplifier with substantial power and amperage to control all those drivers in a studio 100 to make them sound tight and "faster" as you were looking for. |
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New member Username: GioPost Number: 3 Registered: Jun-04 | Chicobiker thanks for your input. Can you be more specific regarding your experience with the Studio 100v3s ? Gio |
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Silver Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 148 Registered: Apr-04 | When I auditioned the 100 v3 while reviewing the Monitor 5, I was struck by the 100's lack of overall focus, a very "swimmy" soundstage, bass that was overly 'wooly' and not tight, and a mostly disappointing midrange to highs & upper highs, which means I could instantly recall speakers for the same price, that in my opinion simply outperformed the 100's in those areas. Still determined to reveal what the reviews had boasted about, I attached my $150 cables. Very little improvement. I moved the speakers around and had the salesman remove the "switching box" connections. Ditto for the spikes. Nothing that made me like them. I then briefly listened to the 100's at another shop - still not satisfactory in too many regards to consider a purchase. To make the 100's even acceptable, I believe you would 1) need an amp of HEFTY wattage and high current stability to control the many drivers 2) have to AT LEAST bi-wire the speaker to optimize the sonic profile resulting in cable/interconnect additional expenditures 3) plant the 'outriggers' FIRMLY into your carpet/floor to stabilize the prominent low end/low frequency output and keep the highs clear 4) they are really suitable for LARGE living spaces with 35+ sq/in of bass driver surface area In my experience, I could easily select a speaker/cable/interconnect package that wouldn't exceed the cost of the 100's and be it's equal or surpass the 100 in all regards. |
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New member Username: GioPost Number: 4 Registered: Jun-04 | I do have amplification that could easily drive some of the hardest-to-drive speakers on the planet (Rotel RB-1090, 2 X 380w/ch). This baby has its own dedicated breaker in the breaker box of the house. I would bi-wire the 100s just like I did bi-wire the 60s. I read somewhere that Paradigm strongly recommend bi-wiring. My problem is that I can't demo the 100s at home for now, and I do have a good offer for my 60s. |
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New member Username: GioPost Number: 5 Registered: Jun-04 | One thing that is perhaps never stressed enough when it comes to audio components in general, and speakers in particular, is the fact that they will never play at their best until the break-in period is over. Can be quite long with Pradigm Reference speakers in particular. Could it be that the 100s that you've listened to were not broken in ? |
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Silver Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 149 Registered: Apr-04 | Gio - responses at follows: The 100's I auditioned, versions 1, 2 & 3 over the years (I never warmed up to any versions) I believe as demonstrator units, were frequently left on, and I'll bet they were sufficiently broken in. I don't believe the break-in differences would sway me to chose them anyhow. If you have a buyer for your 60's and YOU like the sound of the 100's, then go for it. The 100's aren't what I would choose per se, BUT they aren't horrific -- I've heard WORSE and BETTER for $2300. What cables do you have bi-wired and what interconnects are you using? The reason I ask is because I'd be inclined to upgrade my cables and interconnects (esp with the studio 60's virtues) and add a subwoofer over a full swap to the 100's. |
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New member Username: GioPost Number: 6 Registered: Jun-04 | Chicobiker : My 60s are bi-wired with : Straight Wire Sextet Interconnects : Kimber Cable Timbre (they're super-transparent but not shielded) A/C cable to the amp : Straight Wire A/C cable to pre-amp : Transparent PLP2 A/C cable to CD player : Transparent PLP2 I put cones (Black Diamond) underneath the CD player, the amp and the pre-amp. Gio |
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New member Username: GioPost Number: 7 Registered: Jun-04 | As for the subwoofer, I'm somewhat reluctant as I only listen to audio, and no HT. Don't know, I may be wrong but in my mind subwoofers are better suited in a HT system... |
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Silver Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 151 Registered: Apr-04 | Well Gio - good news! In this case, as I also own and love Straight Wire Sextet, with it's well controlled middle mids - to clear highs and no over contribution to bass, which you don't want with those Studio 100s'; and the other worthwhile upgrades and equipment you have, you may well achieve very acceptable results with your swap to 100's. Glad to see some Kimber Kable in use! No need to be hesitant on subwoofers, most have sufficient controls to limit bass output and where they start to 'participate' in a audio system. I think bi-wired 100's with Sextet's would work well esp in preventing the 100's bass from becoming as overwhelming as I have noted in all versions over the years. The clean and coherent midrange to treble balance endemic of Straight Wire cables will suit the 100's very well in my opinion. The reason you notice me voicing such strong opinions on speakers above $1800ish is because I don't want to see anyone wasting money. |
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New member Username: GioPost Number: 8 Registered: Jun-04 | The last thing I would like to get here would be undefined, overwhelming bass. You seem to have some reservations about the bass performance of the Studio 100s. As the v3 has different drivers from V2 and V1, my gues was that the bass would be less overwhelming indeed. Please tell me if my guess is wrong, as I don't want to end up with something that will fill the room with unwanted bass.... |
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Silver Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 153 Registered: Apr-04 | I believe the MAIN changes to the 100's over the years, were not actually the drivers, BUT, were from v1 to v2 much needed upgrades to improve cabinet solidity and a crossover upgrade. On v3 if they are using the same corporate drivers (so common these days) as the Monitor NEW carbon-lite, or an upscale Studio level variation of it, then that would be a good replacement of a driver. BUT, bass can become overwhelming on the 100's. Even extrapolating as best I can, with what your clean and lean Sextet's will do on the 100's as far as controlling the bass, I still urge an audition. I found the bass FLAT OUT far too heavy on the v3 100s esp with a cable swap to my Straight Wire NEW Symphony - those cables are full of bass and lower mid-definition, something to avoid on the 100's. I never did believe all the positive comments in the reviews in the audio mags about the 100's. I'll bet your 60's sound very fine with your Sextet's - dont they? |
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Bronze Member Username: ElitePost Number: 24 Registered: May-04 | Gio I have a pair of the reference 100's and with the correct set up you can literally lose your self in the sound. they are the best sounding speaker in this price range and sound better than other speakers i have heard for twice as much. and they do need time to break in. mine sound better every weekend. read the many great reviews they get by all the magazines. they are truly a great loudspeaker oh and there is no need to pay 2300 for them. I got them from an authorized dealer around the corner from me for $1800. an extra 100 for sheilded. i have them bi-wired but they sound the same wired regular style. your want to hear great bass. listen to bela fleck and the flecktones flight of the cosmic hippo. you will be sold! |
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New member Username: GioPost Number: 9 Registered: Jun-04 | Chicobiker The bass ''issue'' that you are describing with the 100s, I have also experienced it when I first got the Studio 60s. It was not until the HPs were broken in, and connected to a proper amp (I had a Hafler 2 x 60w), that I got a decent bass performance. Even after the breaking in period, the Hafler just couldn't control the bass of these speakers. While mids and highs were great, the bass sounded undefined and boxy. Actually, the whole thing was sounding as if I had 2 speakers : one on top handling the mids and highs in a very decent manner, and a second one located jut below, playing the bass in a less than convincing manner. Eventually, with a more powerful amp (and with a much higher damping factor) and clearer interconnects, the whole speaker took life. I think that Paradigm is misleading people to some extent, when they claim for instance that amps from 15w to 350w could handle the 100s. From the experience I had with the 60s, no way. It does take a lot of juice, otherwise no decent performance is going to be achieved. |
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Silver Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 154 Registered: Apr-04 | Gio - I should have been more precise in describing the necessary damping factor and amp power needed to control the 100's. I also agree with the driver drift you noted; as if a 100 were two speakers. I think though I did outline the general idea of this in an earlier post. Big room, big amps and carefully chosen cables would be a MUST with the 100's. |
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New member Username: GioPost Number: 10 Registered: Jun-04 | Joe, thanks for your input. At this point I tend to agree with you on the fact that the 100s probably are great speakers. Chicobiker, thanks for sharing the above informations with me. I will think about all this for a few days, and then make a decision. So far it looks like I might very well take the plunge. |
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Silver Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 155 Registered: Apr-04 | Gio - it ultimately ONLY matters what YOU think about the 100s. Under the proviso of using the Sextet's on the 100's - you'll get AT LEAST reasonable results, I'm sure of that. Post a picture for us! |
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Bronze Member Username: GioPost Number: 11 Registered: Jun-04 | I sure will post a picture when/if the 100s get to my home. I do like the Sextet a lot and they will stay in my system for a long while. (And I guess my amp needs a new challenge...) |
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Silver Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 156 Registered: Apr-04 | I'll be very interested in the results of your Bi-wired Sextets on the 100's. One thing to consider is how many 100's can be found on audiogon.com for reasonable prices - and I've seen many 100 v3's for sale there. Shipping costs can be reduced by using UPS 7-10 day economy method. |
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Bronze Member Username: GioPost Number: 12 Registered: Jun-04 | OK, I had sent this question to Paradigm's customer service dept, with a hope to get a ''definitive'' answer : Hi this is not a technical question I have here, but something I guess that's calling for a rather subjective comment or answer. just wondering what the sonic differences would be between studio 60s and studio 100s (v3). I have an eye on a set of 100s but unfortunately I can't demo them. At the same time, I have an buyer for my 60s (v3) I certainly have the amp to drive the 100s (Rotel RB-1090, 2 X 380w/ch, with a very high damping factor.) Separate pre-amp. The speakers would be bi-wired. My main concern is about the bass. I don't want a lot of undefined and overwhelming bass; what I'm looking for actually, is a faster bass, with more extension, than what I have with the Studio 60s. As for the mids and highs, I guess they would be pretty much the same, although with the crossover cut at 300hz rather than at 500hz I might be wrong. What do you think ? Thx Georges And here's the answer I just got : Hi Georges Actually, the Studio 100 v.3 produces better clarity and detail through the mid and bass ranges. Since the Studio 100 v.3 is a full three-way design, the mid-range and bass drivers handle smaller frequency ranges than the 2 1/2-way design of the Studio 60 v.3. i.e. The bass/midrange driver on the Studio 60 v.3 plays everything below 2.0 kHz where the Studio 100 v.3's midrange driver only plays between 2.0 kHz and 300 Hz. Also, the Studio 60 bass driver plays below 500 Hz and the Studio 100 bass drivers play below 300 Hz. The Studio 100 v.3 does produce lower bass extension. Thanks for choosing Paradigm speakers. Sincerely, Gary Takeda Paradigm Technical Support Whether the 100s really shine or not in the real life, Paradigm's cust service does shine in my book so far... |
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New member Username: KennygoPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-04 | Looking for a dealer or website to buy Paradigm studio 100 v2 or v3 at a discount...any help out there? I live in New Mexico. Thank you |
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Bronze Member Username: GioPost Number: 13 Registered: Jun-04 | Kenny have you tried this link ? http://www.paradigm.com/Website/Dealers/RayM_DealerReplacment/Dealers.html Gio |
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Silver Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 157 Registered: Apr-04 | Corrective note: While ordering/$$deposit on my Paradigm Monitor 5's (I want the light cherry), I discussed the various changes to versions v2 and v3 on the Studio 100's with my trusted salesperson. Turns out, that on v2 the drivers were in fact upgraded (I was slightly mistaken) and the much needed cabinet bracing upgrades, which I complained about, added over 20 pounds PER SPEAKER. This would make v2 a good buy used. On v3 there have been upgrades to crossover, drivers, driver materiel, port tuning, 'outriggers' and shielding. Incidentally, for those auditioning the Paradigm Monitor line I found the 5, 9 and 11 models to offer the best sonic performance. The 9 getting very positive nods from me in terms of overall performance, price, size & soundstage. The 11 would require a HEFTY power source, but would otherwise be fine. The smallest two Monitors (mini, 3) didn't appeal and the 7 was just the 5 in a larger cabinet -- overall I found the 5 to have plentiful virtues esp at it's price. The only REAL negative feature is a lack of the LOWEST bass harmonics. Otherwise, the 5 had a tight, clean, musical balance easily comparable to some of the more expensive speakers I've owned and I can't wait to get them. |
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Bronze Member Username: GioPost Number: 18 Registered: Jun-04 | Well, I finally made up my mind and bought the damn things (Studio 100 v3). As soon as I got here, I unpacked them, and believe me at 80lbs and 44 inch high each (17 inch deep) they're not easy things to move around (I was by myself). The rosenut finish is the very same as my audio shelves/furniture, - looks very good. As minutes pass by, I realize that I get more and more excited, and I just can't wait to biwire them, put a CD in the player and listen to them. Ideally, I would have waited until the break in period would be over, but come on. I'm also a bit nervous, because my fear was that there would be too much bass, overwhelming bass. Not at all. I can't say that there is significantly more bass. I can say however that there is significantly better bass (faster, firmer)than with the Studio 60s, at least in this room. The mids and highs are about the same (that's what I can say so far) but overall the balence betwen bass, mids and highs appears to be better. (Since last wednesday, they play day and night, as I'm so anxious to see what they can do when the break in period is over). I've been weighting pros and cons, bla bla, for weeks, been reading everything that you guys had to say, and now the decision has been made, the babies are home, and I feel like a happy man. Feels great. |
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Bronze Member Username: GioPost Number: 19 Registered: Jun-04 | Oops, I had a pic to post, at 76ko it just appears to be too much. Too bad, I had the whole kit on it.... |