Hey guys, it's been a long time since my last post, but now that I'm into home audio, I felt like I needed some help.
First, my system:
RECEIVER: 7.1 CH Onkyo TX-SR503 SPEAKERS: Front, Sides and Rear are all Infinity Primus, center speaker is Infinity Beta, all are 5 1/4". SUBWOOFER: Klipsch RW-12
I just got the sub some days ago, I know it is an outdated model but it was $150 brand new. The problem I have with it is that it sounds so boomy.
By using the LFE output in the receiver, and connecting it to the LFE input in the sub, the crossover in the sub is bypassed, the receiver doesn't have an option to select LOWPASS frequency, only the HIGHPASS. I tried a lot of configurations, like using the R and L inputs in the sub, and selecting a lower cutoff for the xover (in sub), but had to turn it down to about 50hz which is very low. My speakers are cut at 80hz.
So, the only thing that actually worked is lowering the volume, but then also the low end of the bass is almost inaudible.
I used the free version of TrueRTA in RELATIVE MODE to check where I can get the loudest response when placing the sub in different places.
The problem is that even there, the bass for such sub is low.
Do youy believe using a sealed enclosure would help? I mean, how much would the response be affected?
The other question is, my receiver doesn't support DolbyTrueHD nor DTS Master Audio, however when a movie encoded with one of those formats is played, Dolby Digital EX or DTS NEO 6 is selected in my receiver.
What I'm NOT getting by using those options? fidelity? channels?
Thanks nuck, but I already tried hooking up the receiver LFE out to the Sub LFE input so I could use the Sub's crossover, but to get rid of the boomy sound, I have to set it very low, losing frequencies in the 50-80hz range.
You've purchased a $150 subwoofer from a company known for producing boomy bass and now you complain of boomy bass?
Can you guess where I'm headed with this?
Why did you buy this subwoofer? Apparently not because of its sound quality. You bought this because of its price - it was a deal! It sounds like I get to be the one to break the news to you that buying "deals" is not the way to get a high quality system. Deals are typically deals because no one else wanted the product. Not that the occasional good deal doesn't exist but making the price your objective seldom results in a good deal in the long run. It is, in audio terms, the same as a crow decorating it nest with bright, shiny objects that caught its attention.
My suggestion is you make plans to buy a better subwoofer in the near future. There are design limitations that sometimes cannot be overcome by any amount of work, you cannot turn a Chevy Aveo into a Corvette no matter how hard you work at it.
However, given that you now own this thing you need to make it work as best as possible until you can unload it. To begin with forget the sealed system as long as you have this subwoofer. You cannot change what you have without seriously and unpredictably altering the final sound. If you are asking whether you should buy a different subwoofer, then, yes, you should, this one will always sound boomy. If you are asking whether you should try to modify this subwoofer, then, no, you will not like the results.
As far as the Dolby/DTS issues are concerned, if you have the number of speakers selected in your set up menu correct, then the receiver will make the best of the information it is fed and you cannot in most cases override the processor's conclusions. You are not missing any information if you've done your set up according to the actual conditions of your system.
I would suggest the best route to solving your boomy bass issues can be found in placement. Toss out the computerized systems - they are not providing the information you actually require to make a good set up. Rely on your ears and a small amount of common sense knowledge about room acoustics.
Placement will typically minimize the bass response issues in most rooms. However, bass response is determined by the room and you canot alter the basic physics of the room and its interaction with the soundwaves.
Excessively boomy bass is most often a combination of where the bass driver sits in the room and where the listener is sited in relation to the room's varying response. Just moving the subwoofer to another location will seldom solve the underlying issues of boominess as long as your seating location remains the same. You are quite possibly sitting in the middle of a strong room induced peak that will always sound boomy until you move out of that location. Unfortunatey, most speaker/subwoofer set up procedures seldom mention the seating location as a solution to room issues.
Place the subwoofer away from all reflective surfaces such as walls and floor. 18-24" should be sufficient to begin with. Play material with deep bass content and walk from the speaker location to your seating location. You will very likely hear a rise and fall in bass response as you walk the length of the room. If you do or if you do not, sit in your normal location and move the chair forward and backward in the room by about 12" and a few inches at a time. Now you should hear those peaks and dips taking effect on the bass response. If you place your chair immediately against the rear wall of the room, you should hear the strongest bass response with the least amount of reflected response interferring. Placement close to reflective surfaces increases bass response and further away from reflective surfaces lessens bass response is the normal rule for beginners. That rule means placing the subwoofer on the floor could result in too much boom and relocating the sub to a higher position in the room might solve some of the problems. This back wall positon for your chair, however, might not be the best location for other frequencies but you should begin with that bass sound as your idea for how to get the best from your room. Once you've determined the best seating location for the smoothest bass response from your subwoofer you can proceed to make further adjustments to the subwoofer's location by placement of the sub itself. After those two locations have been established you can make further adjustments to your receiver's set up menu to make the best of the subwoofer you own.
Position of the subwoofer and the listening position should always come first and then you make adjustments to the electronics afterward. Room dimensions are the determining factor in bass response. Some rooms simply are not well suited to clean bass response. If, after all experimentation is complete, you come to the conclusion the room is never going to allow great bass response and the subwoofer itself is never going to be capable of great bass response, you will have to make adjustments as best you can. Until then, placement is about the best way possible to get the most desirable response from your system. Further approaches to room sound can be managed trough room treatments but, if you're on a $150 subwoofer budget, I doubt those are in your near future.
First of all thank you Jan Vigne for taking the time to write. As I said in the post, I'm new to home audio, but I mean getting a $600 sub for $150? That must be a great deal (I thought).
Probably it was my mistake for getting it without doing research, but then again, it never occured to me that a $600 sub would sound like that.
About the seating location, yes, I noticed differences, unfortunately it is in the center of a square room, so it is a fixed position.
I will place the sub away from the floor and move it across the room as you suggested.
I don't think you understood my post. As long as you sit in the same location in a room that has a peaked bass response you will hear a peaked bass response. The peaks and dips in response are a result of the room dimensions and are relatively fixed in their location no matter where the subwoofer sits. To really solve your problem you need to move your listening position.
You can minimize the amount of bass that is generated by moving the subwoofer away from reflective surfaces but that will not change the location of the room peaks just the amount of reinforcement provided to the subwoofer by any location close to reflective surfaces. Move the subwoofer further away from the walls and floor and there is less reinforcement to the frequencies the subwoofer reproduces. That will minimize some degree of boom created by, say, a corner placement of the sub but you probably will always hear the boom no matter where the sub is sited as long as you are sitting in the same location.
And, yes, a square room or any room where two or more dimensions are easily divisible by a common number (12x15x9 are divisible by 3) will have bass problems. This will require either a total reposition of the system to another room or very careful work to get the best out of the existing location.
Another feasible solution would be to step up to a receiver with a room correction system built in but that would be a rather expensive step.
A hopefully final clarification; in any room - but most especially in a square room - the strongest room effects - peaks, dips, reflections and echoes - will be heard at the center of the room. Move your seating position to a location at either the rear of the room against the wall or at about 5/8 the length of the room just for experimentation and listen to the differences in boominess from any subwoofer lcoation.
I did try everything you suggested, the best listening position in my room is about 1/3 from the rear wall, and having the subwoofer in the right side, instead of the left, a little above the floor and about 1ft from the wall.
As the tv is too far, I tried changing the seating location between the middle and the front of the room. While this didn't sound as good as in the rear, it is definately better than listening in the center of the room. I get a better low end response, and the boomyness is reduced, although still present.
When I first installed the sub, I wondered why the bass sounded better when playing songs from the computer than when watching movies, the computer is exactly 1/4 the room distance from the rear wall.
It is really difficult to setup a home audio system, and even more when when there is no control over individual frequencies, plus there are 8 speakers playing at the same time... I am more or less satisfied with the results so far, but I'll experiment more later.