Police your forum
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14006 Registered: May-04 | . There would appear to be an appalling lack of priniciples among many of the forum's regulars. Recently, a forum member who came here with facts was shouted down as a troll. Why? I would guess because he not only isn't a regular in this section of the forum but because he had facts that upset a few of the less audio educated here, among them a few who not only prefer being ignorant but are proud of their ignorance. Haven't we seen enough of that sort of attitude in everyday life? In that thread another regular became a troll by shouting insults when there was nothing else he could do. No one said anything to this troll. Why? Because he's a regular? Now, in yet another thread, another regular has made hom0pohobic comments that went without comment by any of you. Now, hom0phobic comments had been denounced by some when they were made just a few days ago. But because they were made this time by one of the regulars no one said a thing about them. https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1786475#POST1786475 OK, people, do you have any principles or do you not have any principles? I'm used to being attacked by the ignorant fools on this forum but this comment crosses a line that should be over the top to all of you save the ignorant shouters. Do you just sit on your hands and let this pass or do you condemn both what has been said and the member who posted it? I already know just like most of you already know who will side with Rantz on this merely because they are the stupid fools of this forum who dislike anyone with some level of information that challenges their continued stupidity. They will post their insults here and think they are being smart. What about the rest of you? Whether you have any opinion of me or not, does this cross the line on this forum? Do you have enough principles on this one to say this is over the line? Or do you just accept troll like behavior because it's one of your own? Stand up? Or shut up? Which one is it? . |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 304 Registered: Aug-04 | You have zero principles. Seriously Jan Vane. You are one demented, twisted, delusional individual. The things you say......this absurdly deep investment you make in attacking the character of every poster who doesn't agree with you or won't bow down to you; is deeply disturbing. It's clear that you conduct yourself like a little brat attention whhore, who must have her way and must have the constant, undivided attention of everyone. It's funny that when you are dealt a taste of your own medicine, you go looney tunes on everyone. You run amuck through the forums. You get treated, as you treat others. And the way I have seen you always treated people (since the day I joined this forum); has been attrocious. But no one cries louder, whines more and cries longer; than you do. When you receive your own medicine. It's amazing how you seem to have the exact same problem with everyone. But you've convinced yourself it's everyone else that is wrong, lol. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3819 Registered: Sep-04 | Jan, NMT, MR, I'm usually one to stand up and cry foul when I see things go too far. I have seen some quite vituperative rhetoric from all sides including yourself. Were it to be uttered in the street, such rhetoric would have bl00dy consequences and in the UK would be considered serious provocation. I have read some quite astonishing attacks of late, usually followed by equally poorly phrased retorts, so bad that I cannot make comment in defence of any contributor! Sorry, but that's the way I see it. Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 306 Registered: Aug-04 | Oh I agree, Frank. I know that I got nasty and vile in my responses (by design). But whether you or an yone else realizes it, I was making a point. Maybe not the best way to go about it, certainly not proud of the insults and stupid stuff I said. But I believe I got my point across. Jan's behavior has been absurd, childish and self-glorifying since the day I joined, here. She loves to dish it out, but she can't take it. And she thinks that her modest knowledge of audio science, is the all encompassing justification to pisss and shitt on people every day. I typically ignore her (and my posts here support and prove me on that), but after reading the ridiculous nonsense, I felt she needed a mirror held up to her. Apparently she didn't like her own reflection. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14010 Registered: May-04 | . This is not a referendum on me. Whatever you feel about me is between you and me and I suspect most everyone else gets tired of reading the insults. And I apologize to anyone who feels they have been forced to read unintelligent blather. This is about over the top hom0phobic remarks that are bigotted and do not belong on this forum. If anyone feels I am after attention when I remind all of you of what should be basic respect for everyone, then you have your opinion and I have my own. As to "some of my own medicine", unless you can show where I have included any such r@cist or hom0phobic comments in any of my posts, you are sadly mistaken and looking only to stroke your own ego. The rest that has occurred between Rantz and myself has gone on for the past six years and will conitinue until one of us leaves this forum. That is the sad truth of someone who cannot let go of a grudge. It gets ugly and it stays ugly. This however crossed a line that has to this point not been crossed. What goes on strictly between two members is not the issue here. The issue would be principles and whether they apply to everyone or just a select few. The issue over the past few days has been whether attacks upon an individual for the sake of retribution are good for the forum and whether they can be recognized as bigotry when they are seen. The issue now is whether hom0phobic comments such as those made by Rantz have any business on this forum. They are either uncalled for and should be labeled as undesirable or you will allow such comments against another person just for the sake of attack. Surely, if you do nothing to stop such remarks now, they will continue and they will escalate. This is a public forum and anyone should have the right to be here without anyone else making r@cist or hom0phobic comments towards any person seen or unseen. You are adults and you should be able to separate out what is going on between Rantz and myself and these comments. Does bigotry stand or does it not? Are insults aimed at another person's race or sexu@l identity fair game on this forum? The issue is not even who I am, I am a member of this forum and that's all I have ever been. Need I remind everyone it has been your assumption of who I am that has taken precedent and not what I have said about myself. Have not all of you thought this forum was the province of males and only uninformed women occasionally showed up to ask questions from "you guys"? Do any of you have any idea how bigotted that concept is? Or how long I've had to deal with such bigotry? But Rantz's comments about not deciding Mr. or Ms. have gone beyond the normal male bigotry towards any female in this industry. The issue remains whether one member can make and get away with hate speech or whether they cannot. The issue remains what principles exist here on this forum as a whole. . |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10809 Registered: Feb-05 | Whenever I see comments that I feel could be viewed as racist or homophobic, whether they are meant that way or not, I comment. This time was no exception. However I think we all know that issues of disrespect for one another on this forum are larger than that and they start with you Jan and trickle down. Like it or not you are the biggest bully in the sandbox. This comment is not meant as an insult, it's just how I see it. You don't allow us to enjoy the forum in whatever way we want to without calling us idiots and belittling us...that is not acceptable behavior anywhere except the impersonal world of the internet forum. All of us are guilty of this disrespectful behavior and I aplogize for my part in it. I do my best to ignore the frequent though often veiled (thinly) insults to me from one member here and have been very successful at it. I will continue to do so and as I do in my daily life I will strive to improve my behavior. That's all I have to say on this subject and I will not respond to what I feel is likely coming my way as a result of saying this much. Enjoy the thread. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2151 Registered: May-06 | When confronted with this post one could only respond that undoubtedly lines have been crossed. It is not about partisanship or relationships, it is about civility. That one member presents a strong argument in often bitter retribution is one thing, when that member gets excited to the point of where it appears the retribution becomes an attack is another. For whatever reason those who recognize themselves as being on the receiving end allow their feelings or emotions to get involved and take it down an immature almost childish path. I have done this myself in the past so I can recognize it and call it for what I see it. Also that I have recognized my actions for what they were I have learned to detach from such behavior and not engage at that level. Usually I am successful. Does that excuse that I am one of the one's on the sideline quietly watching this play out? Not really. This thread is serving its purpose of moving me off the sidelines. R@cism, bigotry, h0m0ph0bia, as well as any sexu@l connotations have no place in this type of environment. I am surprised that Art has not said so much already. And no I am not calling Art out, as none of us have objected, but Art is generally a "consciousness" type. I agree with Frank to a point, however lines have been crossed, further from one side than the other. To those engaged in this defamation, to make a point or whatever, it is a reflection on your character, and since most of you will never meet another forum member on the street that may not mean much. But bear in mind it is also a reflection of this community "eCoustics" of which we all have chosen to be members. From what I have seen, this type of behavior is commonplace on the "Sat's" section and I will have nothing to do with those threads. I wonder how many readers see this on our threads and go away feeling the same way. OK, people, do you have any principles or do you not have any principles? Clearly we have principles, whether or not we care to exhibit them. IMO those reading this thread might be hesitant to express a retribution or condemnation to any of the regulars engaged in this behavior as they themselves did not want to fall into the path of, or be pulled into, these slimy diatribes. I am not defending anyone idly sitting by nor am I bullying that someone speak up. You each have to follow your own path. |
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Gold Member Username: RiconissanPost Number: 2084 Registered: Feb-09 | If there were member moderators here I am sure they would ban all Homofags. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2152 Registered: May-06 | Art, I obviously was typing my post and crossed over yours. Obviously if you have commented prior to the above post I missed it and for that I apologize. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 307 Registered: Aug-04 | " This is about over the top hom0phobic remarks that are bigotted and do not belong on this forum. " -Jan V No. Don't try to spin this. Your thread starter post was NOT exclusive to this particular topic. You clearly were addressing more than one topic. You're inability to be honest in even those regards, speakes volumes about you. Nothing else needs to be said. " If anyone feels I am after attention when I remind all of you of what should be basic respect for everyone, then you have your opinion and I have my own. " - Jan A concept you would be well served (and the forum well served), in remembering; before you decide to belittle the next poster who's opinions/experiences don't coincide with yours. You have a very selective memory, by design. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 308 Registered: Aug-04 | One more thing. Your comments and claims of bigotry and sexism, are laughable. You yourself never pass up, a chance to throw in some not-so-cleverly veiled insults and belittling comments that often seem to ooze with it. But now you want to cry foul and play victim. Give me a break with this nonsense. Hey, I even defended you in that other thread, when Maris said what he said   |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10810 Registered: Feb-05 | That's OK Mike, it's difficult to follow all of this and most of us would prefer not to. My comments came early when I saw the comments starting to head down the homophobic road. That is never acceptable...period. Frank knows as I made sure to PM him so that he understood that I was not addressing him. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 309 Registered: Aug-04 | Another old cliche comes to mind, regarding the OP and her "principles". Practice what you preach. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2956 Registered: Oct-04 | If there were any lines of decency on this board, to say that NMyTree & M.R. have crossed them would be an understatement. You are not the first to butt heads with JV (ask Art), and what JV does might rub you the wrong way, maybe even hurt your feelings, boo-hoo, whatever, but it never crosses into the realm of vulgarity & bigotry. Art's been at war with Jan for as long as I can remember, but neither he nor anyone else here has ever come close to writing the things I've read from the two of you over the past few days. What the !@#$ is wrong with you? You're both truly pathetic, and I would personally like to see the both of you thrown off the board. |
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Gold Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 1366 Registered: Nov-04 | Since when did this forum digress to a playground of children? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14011 Registered: May-04 | . "Your comments and claims of bigotry and sexism, are laughable. You yourself never pass up, a chance to throw in some not-so-cleverly veiled insults and belittling comments that often seem to ooze with it." Prove it. I know you can't. You know you can't. Everyone on this forum knows you can't. Like Rantz you are quick to an insult and slow to any proof. Prove your claims of bigotry and sexism and you'll have accomplished something. If you can't, it's just one more stroke of your ego with more insults and lies. This is the second time in this thread alone where you have posted these insults towards me. Stop with the insults and start with the proof. More hatred doesn't solve the underlying issues of hate filled bigotry. Start proving what you say. We all know it can't be done. . |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 310 Registered: Aug-04 | Practice what you preach. Simple. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2539 Registered: Nov-05 | Once again JV puts his own spin on my words: But Rantz's comments about not deciding Mr. or Ms. have gone beyond the normal male bigotry towards any female in this industry. That comment stems from the fact that on more than one occasion a poster has inquired or commented whether or not JV is male or female. Which, with the name Jan, I believe is a fair question. He has never responded to that question or innuendo regarding that question. Should he/her have responded to set people straight, yes I believe so in order to prevent confusion. Why would it be a big secret? My comment was neither racial, homophobic or anything else and if anyone saw it that way then I apologise profusely. People can be whatever they want if they don't hurt anyone else. I couldn't care less. In my shoes, would any of you react differently if venomously, childishly and crudely attacked by JV. Many here have reacted as I to him/her (I still don't have a clue as to what gender JV is), but it is easy for those that haven't been on the end of his attacks to criticize. If you wish for me to leave this forum then please post your wishes on this thread. If there is enough of you, then so be it. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14012 Registered: May-04 | . Explain how my not responding to any questions regarding my gender would have "hurt" anyone on this forum. Would it have changed any of my answers to any technical questions? Or just changed the way they were viewed? I said nothing and the decision was made by "you guys" before I ever had to say anything else. I said it above, Rantz, I am an internet forum member and that is all I need to be. I don't care to be judged by anything other than the information I provide. My system is of no significance to anyone on this forum and so I don't mention my system except in passing, does that hurt anyone? I don't tend to mention the car I drive and I don't see that as hurting anyone. You are reaching. What difference should it make what gender box I check? Read what I posted, I have had to deal with male bias for decades. Why should I do it here? I never hid who I am, it was every one of you who made the decision who you thought I was. The question came up years ago on the Old Dogs thread and JA was the first to make it clear that obviously I had to be male since I knew about audio. Everyone just accepted that reasoning, everyone just assumed what they wanted to believe. So this has been around this forum since the day I signed on. I always referred to myself as a "salesperson". Not one of you questioned that. I never saw anymore reason to inform anyone of who I am than did any other member of this forum. How many of you have made a formal announcement of your gender? Why should I be any different? You can read my name. Who would you assume to be named Jan? You can read my posts. You would you assume can provide such technical information? I am a member of this forum and have been for the last 6+ years. That's all you need to know unless I care to make an issue out of something. It's my decision not yours. If you aren't yet certain of my gender, Rantz, you do qualify as one of the most dense individuals on this forum. It has been posted here several times. You could have asked Kegger if you wanted to know. He and I have spoken on the phone on numerous occassions and he knows me. There are several people on this forum who know me well and have been to my house. If you wanted to know, you could have asked. You could have asked muiltiples of people before you made an issue out of it in the thread. Or you could have just not made an issue of it in the thread. Because it doesn't matter to whether my answers are technically correct or not. None of this seemed very important to you until you decided it would be a good moment to unleash a bit of hatred and your blind bigotry said making the comments you did would have no effect now or in the future. That potentially embarrassing someone would further your argument when you had nothing else. Why else would you have made those comments in this particular thread? So why did it become a issue now? Why make an issue out of it when it had nothing to do with the thread? Why try to weasel out of what you said? Your comment was not hom0phobic? Most big0ts don't want to think of themself as big0ts, that doesn't change the fact they are and that what they say is bigotted. The issue now is what does the forum do about it? Do their priniciples say to condemn bigotted posts? Or do they let it slide since it didn't hurt any of them? Do try to remember that my vemon came forth after your comments. I'm not sure what Frank expects but I have learned not to try calm, logical reasoning on a hate filled big0t. I'm going to give you just exactly what you dished out and then we can see how you like being on the other end of the words. Your comment qualifies you as someone deserving of everything you got and more. Besides, you hadn't made an announcement that you have posted under several identities on this forum and I have no idea which one I'm talking to when I post and you're on the forum. So, you see, that must be your fault as it couldn't possibly be mine.  Are you apologizing to me, Rantz, or just to everyone else? And, though you've tried this ploy so many times before and still managed to come back to the forum, yes, I for one would like to see you gone. If you cannot get over this grudge you hold for me, then you have no business on this forum. You have taken this beyond the pale and it's time for you to go. . |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2957 Registered: Oct-04 | M.R., I've never had a problem with you, but snide, thinly-veiled comments like, "Ms Vigne (or Mr Vigne which ever the case may be, but I don't even think she/he has that figured out yet) often misleads because of numbers and not ears." make my skin crawl & see red; it's misogynistic and plain !@#$ing stupid! What would you care? What's it your business? What other purpose would you have other than to try to make it some sort of issue? Can't you put JV in her place talking shop, you know ohms & amps, rather than this BS? Grow some balls and take responsibility for what you've said! |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2541 Registered: Nov-05 | Sorry CM, if that's the way you took it, again I apologise. But it wasn't written to imply anything other than what I stated above. It was an aside, it wasn't intended to be an issue - my bad. Political correctness leaves me cold. Personally, I don't care what gender, tendencies, or anything else JV is. And you are correct - it is JV's business. But I don't see what harm it is for members to know a gender of the person with whom they communicate. I have my ideas about JV and I keep them to myself. I have/had friends of colours, persuasion, tendencies, races, religions - I take people as I find and treat them as they treat me. Simple as that. Yet, not so simple. My apology extends to you JV if you took that comment in the way you spun it, but spin it you did - like everything else. And I apologise to you for nothing else. I believe many would consider that it is you who take things beyond the pale JV. That's one vote for I leave. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2542 Registered: Nov-05 | Besides, you hadn't made an announcement that you have posted under several identities Never denied it JV - I was also The NUN. You can add that to list. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14013 Registered: May-04 | . "I have my ideas about JV and I keep them to myself." Certainly you do. It's why you follow every one of your mea culpas with another insult. . |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2958 Registered: Oct-04 | M.R., I wasn't shopping for an apology in any way, shape, or form, and this has NOTHING to do with being PC (Me?!?), it's about being civil in public & having a sense of decorum for god sakes! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10812 Registered: Feb-05 | Political correctness is the enemy of open dialogue and conversation, however there is a difference between political correctness and disrespectful bigotry. We don't cross that boundary here very often and when we do, I say so, I feel that the boundary was crossed. Whether by intent or by accident it was crossed, both by MR and by NMT. They should apologize and in one case one of them has apologized. We all make mistakes, admit them and we can get on with our lives. That doesn't change the bigger picture of rudeness and disrespect on this forum. At issue here is the question of how we will treat each other here in the future. Will there be no more tirades from JV aimed at all of us idiots who are here just to enjoy the forum. Will there be no more crass remarks made to newbies by folks like myself and others just because they don't understand something or because their gear doesn't match up to some high and mighty standard that we have set. That's what's at issue...something bigger than just one personal conflict. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13641 Registered: Dec-04 | I gotta get back to Big D and try JV's lasagna. Word is, she makes a mean one... |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2768 Registered: Jun-07 | mmmMmmmMMm Lasagna and music. Go Cowboys!!! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13645 Registered: Dec-04 | Bears |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2153 Registered: May-06 | To me Romo is the 2nd coming of Rex Grossman. I have been saying that for over 2 years now. To Bears fans Cutler is almost like the 2nd coming of Sid Luckman & Jim McMahon rolled into one. Da' Bears! Also, Lasagna, then music! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10816 Registered: Feb-05 | I think of Cutler as more like the second coming of...Res Grossman...lol! |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2545 Registered: Nov-05 | if you aren't yet certain of my gender, Rantz, you do qualify as one of the most dense individuals on this forum. It has been posted here several times. You could have asked Kegger if you wanted to know. He and I have spoken on the phone on numerous occassions and he knows me. There are several people on this forum who know me well and have been to my house. If you wanted to know, you could have asked. Sorry everyone, but in my defence to yet another of the ongoing insults, I'll have to be careful wording my response in case I get mislabelled again, but it is others whom have wanted to know JV, not me, I couldn't care less. As far as some who supposedly know you JV, well let's just say the answer to the question of gender from those has been varied over time. So dense maybe, maybe not, depending on the subject. And as for you being the author of this thread title, that is hypocrisy taken to the limit. I'll be leaving this nonsense at that and for everyone's sake at this point I'll respond no more to JV's nasty insults since doing that has put me in the same pot. However, my earlier statement stands for those who wish to vote me off. |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 508 Registered: Mar-04 | "Bears" Bears, who needs the bears when you have the Blackhawks? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3505 Registered: May-05 | "As to "some of my own medicine", unless you can show where I have included any such r@cist or hom0phobic comments in any of my posts, you are sadly mistaken and looking only to stroke your own ego." 1) Remember that Hispanic comment a while back? Racial 2) "..I actually have better things to do than sit here and trade insults with a mentally handicapped ignoramus like you. FO! and you're on "ignore" now." I have a "mentally handicapped" cousin. I find that offensive, as I'm sure others do too. 3) "What's your answer, pussee?" How do you define Rantz calling you a woman any different? Him calling you Ms. Vigne is far less offensive if you ask me. But I digress. Everyone here is guilty of something. Some more than others. Some a lot more than others. Rantz and NMT really surprised me with how low they can go. Jan didn't surprise me in any way. I've seen it from him countless times. Don't play the victim Jan. There's a good way to gauge where the root of the problem is. Other than trolls like Dale Wiley and the latest joker, Who else does Rantz have problems with? Who else does NMT have problems with? Who else does Art have problems with? Who else do I have problems with? Who else does anyone have problems with? Pretty much every regular here has had problems with you, Jan. Very, very few regulars talk to you. You come off like you think you're so much smarter than everyone else. Yet you're not smart enough to figure this out? I personally don't care who stays or goes. I highly doubt anyone will leave. But if you don't like the way things are going, maybe you should leave. Paraphrasing you - If you're too sensitive and can't handle it when someone says something you don't like on a forum, what are you doing here? |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 324 Registered: Dec-06 | Romo is much better than Grossman, as is Cutler. I'd take either on my team (the Bills) in a second. Our guy, Edwards, heck, he's better than Grossman too. As for the rest of this thread, no offense, but I really couldn't care less. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2548 Registered: Nov-05 | Then why look Dan, it's not about sport. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14014 Registered: May-04 | . "1) Remember that Hispanic comment a while back?" I don't remember the "Hispanic" comment a while back. But I'm wondering what you would have me call someone of Hispanic heritage. And does that really qualify as "oozing" racism and sexism? I don't remember, so you'll have to provide some quotes to refresh my memory. Can you do that? "I have a "mentally handicapped" cousin. I find that offensive, as I'm sure others do too." I shouldn't have used the "mentally handicapped" phrase since it carries such negative conotations among certain groups. However, two things, my time had run out to edit the post and what would you call someone with a mental handicap? Mentally challenged? It seems you are treading the pc waters for the sake of scoring points. I doubt your cousin would approve of you using his health for that reason. Do I think someone who is willfully proud of being and remaining ignorant is somehow mentally handicapped? Yeah, I'd have to say in some way they are. I don't know if there's a diagnosis for such behavior but I would have to say they are. I can't imagine your cousin would care to remain without knowledge and yet these people throw away their opportunites. There has to be something wrong with you to do that. " Him calling you Ms. Vigne is far less offensive if you ask me." And, of course, the point is, he didn't just call me "Ms. Vigne", did he? But acknowledging that would pretty well blow that "point" of yours out of the water, woudn't it? Read my response above. Of course I knew I was being crude. Why don't you tell me just how you would have reasoned with hate filled bigotry, I'm sure in retrospect you have a wonderful idea for reconciliation. No, Stu, your own feelings are influencing that post and you are no friend of mine and haven't been for years. As I said, I know who will line up on one side of this issue. I could list them now and probably only forget one or two who haven't been around of late - or haven't received their pass of late now that you mention him. As to my language, there is no reasoning with someone filled with hate, you go after it and give it both barrells. Playing nice is what they expect and I've learned to not do what a big0t wants. If you think otherwise, I suspect that might be due to you belonging to that once great majority of males and you've never faced bias on a daily basis. "Don't play the victim Jan." Here's one reason why you and I don't get along, you don't comprehend things well. I'm not playing the victim - in case you hadn't noticed and I think you have - I never play the victim. I kinda stand up for myself and what I believe. Ask around, I bet you'll find most members know that about me. The issue here is hate filled bigotry and what principles are at play on this forum. So, once again you've misssed the mark due to your dislike for me. Which you just have to toss into that post, don't you? Do me a favor, Stu, don't you play the victim and do prove what you say. I'm begining to get tired of all of you folk who can insult but can't prove. "Pretty much every regular here has had problems with you, Jan." See? there you go insulting without a shred of proof. There are members who carry grudges forward, I realized that six years ago when I got to this forum. Nothing much has changed in that time, Rantz's user id's but otherwise the personalities are just shuffled around now and then. I know who I'll have problems with and who I won't and it will probably surprise you that most of the regulars are not on my list of people who enjoy being ignorant. Because those are the people I generally have trouble with and that's mostly because I don't like ignorance and I really don't like people who are proud of being ignorant. I don't remember what caused you to take this disliking to me but I remember you made quite a fuss over something I posted one day. Something rather silly I do remember. I think what had happened was I proved you wrong on some subject and that generally seals the deal for those who like to hold grudges. Strange how proving someone doesn't have their facts straight can set them off on a grudge hold they just won't let go of no matter what. That was it with you, wasn't it, I had facts and you didn't? I don't remember but I'm sure you do and that's usually what gets "most of the regulars" p!ssed off. So why not list all those regulars who you say don't like me? I'm sure some of them on your list would be surprised to find that out. None the less, a little proof of the insults being tossed around here wouldn't hurt anyone. I'm smart enough to know insults are just mindless words unless you can back them up with proof. How smart are you, Stu? Got any proof? "If you're too sensitive and can't handle when someone says something you don't like on a forum, what are you doing here?" Yep, I said that. And I still believe it. And one more time, the issue is not about whether anyone is too sensitivity to what is said here, if it were I'd still come in way down the list after the Maris affair. And you might want to read Rantz's last post, talk about playing the victim! Whoo doggees! No, the issue here is hate filled spewing of bigotted attacks and what are the principles of this forum. But acknowledging that would blow that "point" of yours out of the water, woudn't it? Art doesn't want any more tirades from me against those who are just having fun on this forum. Anyone ever see one of those photos from back decades ago when the white townsfolk hung someone of another color? Remember how those townsfolk were all smiling and having fun and just plain having one heck of a good time? Yeah, well, if that's was their idea of having a good time, then I suppose you'd think going after someone who presented a few facts about speakers with your own hate speech is just having a good time on this forum. It's not being very smart but, oh, is it having a good time. Admit it, some of you were having a heck of a good time going after Maris, weren't you? Four or five of you on one guy. Somebody shoulda took a picture. See, 'cause I really will do exactly what I did the last time when I see that sort of crap on this forum and though I couldn't defend Maris himself, I will call you a bunch of sh!theads when I think you need it. It's what my principles tell me I should do, defend facts. Facts get such a bum rap on this forum. Turns out Maris wasn't a bad guy and he was pretty easy to debate with real facts. I still don't get it why no one tried that earlier. I'd say Maris and I got along. I'd say I get along with quite a few people on this forum. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so. And anyway, I didn't come to this forum to make friends, I came to discuss audio with someone intelligent. But there are those that like being stupid and they happen to be the ones who hold grudges, and you're right, they can be a royal PITA. . |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 325 Registered: Dec-06 | Then why look Dan, it's not about sport. Fair enough. I guess I find a little time everyday to pop into this forum and see what's going on, including reading through a flame war that will hopefully die off soon. I read it, but not moved enough to comment on it. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2549 Registered: Nov-05 | Apologies Dan, others saw fit to post about sport here too, no reason why you shouldn't as well. I believe they were just trying to steer things away from more crap. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 685 Registered: Jul-07 | I've never really understood the history between certain members on this board, or the animosity and contempt that it spawns on occassion. That's why I never really thought much at all about the comment JV eluded to. To me it was blurred in that history, and the other venomous comments made on the same thread, and similar threads in the past. I'm in no position to judge others. I've made my share of mistakes and said plenty of things over the years I'd rather have back. I don't know the intent of that one particular comment, or what was behind it, so I'm not going to blast MR for saying it. I will say that the tone of the insults lately has become increasingly hateful, and far more frequent that I've ever seen here.....to the point where to outsiders or newcomers I'm sure this seems a rather inhospitable place. I will say that IMO, none of this has anything to do with Maris. After reading this thread I went back to that <$1000 speaker thread and re-read his little entrance. Sure he got jumped on. And sure, he said some things that were factual. He also said some things that were flat out wrong, and they were easy things to get right with a minimal amount of effort. If I have to I'll cut and paste them over here, but right now I'm to d@mn lazy. He was also, IMO, being a bit of an @ss. Is that the end of the world ? Hardly. I didn't bother with him as I didn't feel he was interested in debating anything. His mind was made up and his opinions cemented and I felt he was here just stirring the pot. Whether my assessment is right or wrong isn't my point. My point is that this underlying current of dislike and resentment was here long before Maris, and it seems it will be here long after. Maris was simply a lightening rod. I don't think self policing the board will work until the respect level goes up....way up.....amongst its members. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2550 Registered: Nov-05 | Chris, and others too, as I said before, it's easy for those that haven't been on the receiving end of Vigne's vitriol to criticise. It matters not one bit what one says, what one explains or anything else, Vigne will ignore everything, deny explanations and blatantly keep telling lies and continue with his insults. The only one who carries a grudge is Vigne. I explained my remark, it's intent if you like, and now she calls me a liar by continuing to call me a b1got - I am definitely not any such thing - far from it - and anyone who knows me would agree 100%. While I said things like, idiot, moron, fool etc. back at her pales into insigificence compared to the nasty remaks she has made not only to me, but to many others on this forum. How can anyone respect such a nasty, spiteful individual is beyond all realms of possibilty. Seems she makes up the rules as to what is allowable and what isn't and everyone seems to accept that - even the forum administrator who seems incapable of cleaning up this forum. But the one rule all members need to heed is "challenge Vigne at your own peril." She says prove this and prove that, that's all well and good if one has time to burn scouring the archives of this forum like Vigne is able to do. Who the heck cares a damn about who said what five years ago? Jeez, once I even defended her against someone else's nasty remarks. I now know better, she has proved too many times to count what sort of character she is. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2964 Registered: Oct-04 | Every single regular on this board has been on the receiving end of Jan's critiques at one point in time, but like I've said, I've never seen anyone react the way you M.R. and NMT have; some of NMT's comments were so vile, that I contacted eCoustics' to have them struck from the thread, which they were. Most of us have read hundreds, even thousands, of Jan's posts, here & elsewhere, and it should be blatantly obvious to all that Jan Vigne is an absolute force to recon with when it comes to Hi-Fi, that's just the way it is, to argue anything otherwise is an exercise in futility. Jan has strongly held positions, acquired over many years, and the depth & bredth of Jan's knowledge, along with the ability & willingness to prove a point when challenged is really something to marvel at, and yes, sometimes it gets ugly. I like Jan because I get Jan. If you want to discuss phase-angles & time-correction, ask Jan, if you want to find a $200 pair of bookshelf speakers that your wife might like, then I might be able to help; that's the way I see eCoustics working, Art, Nuck, Stu, Mike, Frank, and anyone else I'm forgetting, everyone plays their part, a little something for everyone, without the traffic, PITAs & trolls like over @ AVS & other boards. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 686 Registered: Jul-07 | MR, your last post just fuels the animosity. I understand that you dislike Jan. I got that. But let's find a way forward, cuz we've beaten this horse to death. Hopefully this doesn't end up with people lining up on one side of this or the other. Horribly unproductive. "If you want to discuss phase-angles & time-correction, ask Jan, if you want to find a $200 pair of bookshelf speakers that your wife might like, then I might be able to help; that's the way I see eCoustics working, Art, Nuck, Stu, Mike, Frank, and anyone else I'm forgetting, everyone plays their part.." Well said Chris. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 311 Registered: Aug-04 | Again, I'm well aware I sunk to low depths, here. And I do apologize if my behavior and contribution to this nonsense offended anyone else. But I'm not apologizing to Jan. I don't believe I owe her an apology. She reaped what she sowed. I'm being honest, here. An apology to her would be hypocritical and it would be disingenuous, of me. But, as I said earlier......I was trying to illustrate a point. That's not an excuse or justification. It is what it is. Not the best approach, for sure. But I felt like it was warranted....at the time. Still do. I don't hate Jan. I don't even dislike her. I don't hold a grudge. Hell, I don't even know her. All I know is her internet schtick I'm not much for this PC stuff. There's a distinct difference between being polite and respectful. And being overly-PC. As for this gender thing. I never ever even thought about it or concerned myself with it, till some time ago. Only when it was pointed out by another member, who brought it to my attention in the forums and pointed out that I was using male gender designations for Jan and that Jan is in fact a female. Then, I also received an e-mail from one of the forum members informing of the same thing. That member was just trying to inform me, so Jan wouldn't be offended by my male gender designation (such as he/his ...etc). But then, other people in the forums started saying they thought Jan was a male. So that's where the confusion started. I understand M.R.'s point on that, because I went through the same thing. It never mattered to me what anyone's gender is. Never even thought about such things. But I guess I thought you were all males. M.R. I see no reason for you to think about leaving the forum. Let's not lose sight of this thing. Quite frankliy it's ridiculous that Jan is playing this "poor, poor victim" card. It's equally ridiculous Jan was claiming M.R. holds a 6 year grudge. When in fact, on a regular basis; Jan is typically the first one to start digging up old arguments (grudges) and flinging them at M.R. and Art. As well as throwing out insults and belittling other people; in any given thread...on any day. Realistically, Jan is the one who routinely instigates and attacks first. I can't even count how many times I go into a thread, read the thread from the beginning and there's Jan swooping in for the attack. Now don't get wrong, here. Jan's insults did not offended me or insulted me. But that doesn't absolve the fact of Jan's intentions and that Jan was trying to do so. Sorry, but I get tired of reading Jan's "poor, poor me" victim card; after people respond to her attacks...in kind. And even now, Jan is still spinning and twisting this into portraying herself as a victim. And she continues to be dishonest and refuses to admit anything or.....own up to her contributions and comments. I have no problem with Jan playing the instigator/aggitator. But don't play the victim card, the sexism card and bigotry card; when you yourself spit out that kind of venom ....all the time. I don't need to go searching for threads to prove what I'm saying. Everyone here knows Jan's game, what she says and what she's up to. It is in just about every thread she gets involved in. No one needs to go searching the forums and posting links. So let's not act like Jan is some poor victim in all of this. Because if you do, then, THAT is sexism. Ingoring her every day behavior and absolving her of what is her standard every day behavior and only holding everyone else accountable; is downright sexism....disguised as chivarly. If Jan were truely trying to gain a solution and put a cease to all of this. She would honestly come clean, admit her behavior and own up to it. But she's not looking for peace. She's just playing games and being her usual attention whhore/instigator self. Again, I'm not a believer of PC. But as you can see from my posts here from day one (excluding this little recent squabble), I do believe in good manners and respect. It is part of my nature. That's how I was brought up. But that doesn't mean I'm incapable of being rude. If I met Jan in person, I would embrace her as I would any friend and would wlecome her into my home or buy her a drink. But if in real life, she talked to me in the same manner as she talks to people on this forum; I'd kick her azz out of my house. As I would any male. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 312 Registered: Aug-04 | Here's one reason why you and I don't get along, you don't comprehend things well. I'm not playing the victim - in case you hadn't noticed and I think you have - I never play the victim. I kinda stand up for myself and what I believe. Ask around, I bet you'll find most members know that about me. - Jan Oh please, you're playing the victim right here, with this comment. Oh yeah, you're just "defending yourself" and " kinda standing up for yourself" What a load of horsecr*p. If you can't even be honest and own up, then, you're not worth talking to. You're still just doing your schtick. And the truth is, you don't comprehend things well. Speaking for myself (even though I suspect there are several people here who feel and think the same way), I love learning. And I have learned a whole lot over the las 5 years. I know a bit more about the science than you think I do. But I'm not interested in learning anything from ...YOU. I have interest in learning or appeasing the ego of an arrogant loudmouth who disprespects everytone all the time. Do you finally get it, Jan? It's not learning that I'm opposed to. I have good friends who are extremely knowledgable in the science of audio, in the real world. And when they want to teach something, they don't need a mindless, disrespectful, childish schtick to do it. What you think about my intelligence, is irrelevent and none of my concern. I'm only interested in illustrating how much of a jerk and how much of a hypocrite you are. I've seen your game before. Your internet schtick is boring. You have a chip on your shoulder, you consider yourself a rebel and defiant in the face of this hobby/forum's regulars. So you go about berating and belittling everyone who doesn't think like you do; all in the name of "education". And you think that gives you a license to be a jerrk. Then you cry foul and play victim when your own medicine is flung back at you. You're not defending yourself. You simply object to getting treated in the same manner you treat others. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2965 Registered: Oct-04 | "Again, I'm well aware I sunk to low depths, here." NMT, I'm paraphrasing & cleaning it up, but maybe you remember something to the effect that "Jan is girl would probably like to be sodomized"? Explain to us what you meant by that Tony? Is that what passes for decent behavior towards women in North Carolina? PC! You'd be missing teeth if you had said that to any woman in my presence, period. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14015 Registered: May-04 | . tree? Did that make you feel better about yourself as a person? ROTFLMF'ingAO!!!!!!!!! How you could post that after CM's and CH's posts is just marvelously surreal. Not a single synapse was used in the making of that post, was it? Oh, tree, contradiction is thy name! One thing to "you guys", yeah, you do have to prove things. That's why they call it proof and all the rest is called bullsh!t and lies. Check it out, it's one of those "logic" things. There's no point in continuing to prove "you guys" wrong, it's too easy and I've done it too often without altering your idea that you can just make sh!t up and anyone is supposed to believe it. But stupid is as stupid does. Act 2 Scene 2: O, What A Rogue And Peasant Slave Am I (Spoken by Hamlet) O, what a rogue and peasant slave am I! Is it not monstrous that this player here, But in a fiction, in a dream of passion, Could force his soul so to his own conceit That from her working all his visage wann'd, Tears in his eyes, distraction in's aspect, A broken voice, and his whole function suiting With forms to his conceit? and all for nothing! For Hecuba! What's Hecuba to him, or he to Hecuba, That he should weep for her? What would he do, Had he the motive and the cue for passion That I have? He would drown the stage with tears And cleave the general ear with horrid speech, Make mad the guilty and appal the free, Confound the ignorant, and amaze indeed The very faculties of eyes and ears. Yet I, A dull and muddy-mettled rascal, peak, Like John-a-dreams, unpregnant of my cause, And can say nothing; no, not for a king, Upon whose property and most dear life A damn'd defeat was made. Am I a coward? Who calls me villain? breaks my pate across? Plucks off my beard, and blows it in my face? Tweaks me by the nose? gives me the lie i' the throat, As deep as to the lungs? who does me this? Ha! 'Swounds, I should take it: for it cannot be But I am pigeon-liver'd and lack gall To make oppression bitter, or ere this I should have fatted all the region kites With this slave's offal: bl00dy, bawdy villain! Remorseless, treacherous, lecherous, kindless villain! O, vengeance! He died you know, after making a great @ss of himself. He had no proof other than what he had made up in his head and with his visions and he just came out swinging his sword. Didn't any of you get taught about hubris when you were in school? LOL!!!!!! . |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3507 Registered: May-05 | Before I say anything else, I owe it to you and everyone here to clarify a point - I do not agree with what Rantz and NMT said to/about you. In fact, I think I made that clear when I said I was surprised at how low they sank. I also didn't know (and still don't) know the full extent of the sexist comments from Rantz. My point was that you were using derrogatory female comments as well, and you can't cry foul when you're doing it too. "I'm smart enough to know insults are just mindless words unless you can back them up with proof. How smart are you, Stu? Got any proof?" Here's some proof... "Pretty much every regular here has had problems with you, Jan." See? there you go insulting without a shred of proof." Do you really expect me to copy and paste every arguement you've had with regulars that went beyond simple audio debate? Are you really trying to tell me that you haven't had problems with the majority of regulars here? The only ones I can't recall you personally attacking are Nuck, Mike, and Chris M. You haven't personally attacked Frank either, but I'm pretty sure that's due to Frank's professionalism and knowing when to walk away. In all fairness to you, I haven't seen you personally attack anyone unprovoked. It usually starts with an audio arguement and goes wrong somewhere shortly thereafter. But no one here has anywhere near the level of arguements with anyone other than you and the occasional troll. The Hispanic comment is burried somewhere in the Old Dogs thread. I don't have the time and energy to look through a couple thousand posts for an arguement. I'm sure several members recall it. The discussion was something along the lines of moving speakers around for placement. Your comment was (paraphrasing) - 'If you don't want to keep getting up, hire a couple of Hispanics to move the speakers around for you.' I said it then, and I'll say it now - Its a racist comment. I also said I wasn't calling you a racist, I said your comment is racist. There's a difference. Does that refresh your memory? After that comment, you said that the illegal aliens where you live are refered to as the Hispanics, and that's who you were referring to. Then you turned it into a platform on which to preach about your feelings on how illegal aliens effect you and everyone else. I left after that, because it was such a piss-poor excuse. Here's what I should have said before I left - All Hispanics aren't illegal aliens. Actually, very few are illegal. As you probably know, a Hispanic person is a person from Latin American descent. Would saying 'get a few Blacks to do it for you' be tolerated? Its no different in any way, shape or form. Do you still not remember the discussion? I lost what little respect I had left for you at that point. "Why don't you tell me just how you would have reasoned with hate filled bigotry, I'm sure in retrospect you have a wonderful idea for reconciliation." No reconcilliation needed, my friend. I have a very wonderful idea - Walk away. For a guy who doesn't "comprehend things well," I comprehend that one pretty well. I argue more than I should, but I've never and will never come close to doing what you guys are doing. Why? I've walked away from it before it escalated. For someone that doesn't "comprehend things well," I also comprehend that it takes more than one person to argue. Neither one of the three of you could be the bigger person and walk away. You're all equally to blame. Are you going to twist that into me siding with friends? But you can't walk away. You always have to have the last word. You always have to prove everyone wrong on every point they make. You always have to be right. Want proof that you're not always right? I'd bet my life savings that no one nailed you to a cross. "I never play the victim." You say that people can't handle it when you prove them wrong. After you prove them wrong, they resort to insults and personal attacks. How does saying people attack you because you constantly prove them wrong not make you sound like a victim? How does saying 'he started it' not make you a victim? |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 313 Registered: Aug-04 | "Again, I'm well aware I sunk to low depths, here." NMT, I'm paraphrasing & cleaning it up, but maybe you remember something to the effect that "Jan is girl would probably like to be sodomized"? Explain to us what you meant by that Tony? Is that what passes for decent behavior towards women in North Carolina? PC! You'd be missing teeth if you had said that to any woman in my presence, period." -Chris M. You know Chris. That was completely tounge-in-cheek and it was response to what Maris said towards us. It was a joke. Your paraphrasing really changes the joke quite a bit And I didn't say "probably" Yes, it was a joke. And it was a naughty joke. A naughty joke in parody. Not a vicious suggestion that Jan should be attacked and sodomized. That's utterly ridiculous. You obviously preceived it that way. You're being overly-PC. And your comment regarding decent behavior/treatment towards women in North Carolina, is ridiculous. I grew up in the New York and New Jersey area. Lived there most of my life (36 years). Don't patronize me about real world treatment of women in North Carolina, compared to New York. I've seen way too many abused, raped, mollested and in some cases....killed women in NY and NJ; to buy into that nonsense. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14016 Registered: May-04 | . To anyone concerned about the label "big0t"; it doesn't matter if you have friends who are of a different ethinicity, religion, political party, etc. You don't have to be a cartoon character of a big0t to be one. Having those friends and "accepting people" as they are is not proof you are not a big0t. You are a big0t if in your mind you can post something such as the line we have seen in this thread. If there is nothing in your head that says, "Whoa, that crosses a line", then there is some bigotry in there somewhere that needs to be weeded out. You may have a same sex partner or a family member who you accept as they exist but if that line didn't strike you as something you shouldn't put in a post, you are still having problems with bigotry. If that line creeps into your head at all, you've got it, you've done it, you're a big0t. Not a cross carrying, burn down the churches and put up the fence type big0t, but you are a big0t none the less. And we all have some of that in each of us. No one is totally immune to the sense of wishing to be superior to another person merely by virtue of who we are and who "they" are. I've told this story here before but I suppose the synapses once again didn't click for a few of you so here goes again. After my father died I took a job in a department store electronics department until a high end store opened up in the area where I had a job offer. I was the hifi person and there was a computer person. I was fairly illiterate when it came to computers and the computer guy was uneducated enough in audio that until I corrected him he would tell people if they hooked their speakers out of phase they would stop working all together. On more than one occassion I was selling audio to a male customer and after I would explain what I thought they needed to know on a department store purchase level the customer would turn or walk over to the computer guy and on more than one occasion ask him, "Is that right?" Toby would nod his head in the affirmative because he knew enough from our discussions to realize he was the computer guy. The customer probably had a wife or girlfriend, a sister and certainly a mother and never would have thought of himself as biased. It's not always what you say or do that tells who you are but rather the things you don't stop yourself saying and doing that define what is in your head and heart. It is "the proof" of who you are. Some of you will get that and some won't. Some of you can aplogize to everyone except me. You feel that would be hypocritical of you. No, that would just be doing the right thing whether you think it's what needs to be done or not. If you can apologize to everyone but me and then walk over to the other guy and post insults towards and about me, then you haven't really apologized to anyone. Some of you will get that and some won't. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14017 Registered: May-04 | . "If you can't even be honest and own up, then, you're not worth talking to." If you don't think I'm being honest, then stop talking and certainly stop insulting with more BS. What are you accomplishing other than a stroke of your own ego? . |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 314 Registered: Aug-04 | Yet, I haven't see you apologize to anyone. Practice what you preach. And that is the fundamental problem, here. You talk a big game, but you have convinced yourself all these principles, values and rules don't apply to you. You're always the victim and everyone else owes you. As far as insulting goes. You're not ever immune from it, are you? You sure love to fling them around. But I see that you have a problem when the insults are flung at you. BTW, what line are you refering to that was Bigotry in motion? |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2769 Registered: Jun-07 | I actually like the Vikings!! And I am a Flyers fan when it comes to hockey. Oh and the CFL is a joke!! lol happy happy joy joy!!!! |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 316 Registered: Aug-04 | LET'S GO RANGERS !! !!! Flyers? Like....Uh ma' gawd |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 510 Registered: Mar-04 | Flyers fan? You guys gave the farm for Pronger. And don't get me started on Emery in goal..... |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2770 Registered: Jun-07 | lol I know I know. Emery scares me. However, Pronger was needed for a short term solution. Not sure if giving up the farm was good though for that so called Long Term Solution. I stand by my team though. Been a Flyers fan since I was 12. I think they got a good shot this year, ONLY if Emery can pull through.  |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 511 Registered: Mar-04 | ...hey Nick go with the Blackhawks ok, we have a winner here in Chicago |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2771 Registered: Jun-07 | I actually enjoy watching the Blackhawks. Exciting team full of young talent. But I am a die hard Flyers fan. Got to stick with my boys. I am not one of those band wagon jumping Pittsburgh fans.LOL *Stirs the pot*. * stir* *stir* |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14018 Registered: May-04 | . OK, Stu, one more time then I hope we're done. "My point was that you were using derrogatory female comments as well, and you can't cry foul when you're doing it too." Let's see, if you called a woman that, would that be derrogatory? Oh, maybe, most women would laugh at you for bringing your male thinking into their world. Are you married, Stu? Try it with your wife and see what reaction you get. Would it be crude? Yeah, undoubtedly so, and I knew I was being crude in response to hate filled bigotry. I admitted that. What's your point? Rantz's comment was made before I used crudity. Both barrels, Stu, both barrels, don't do what the big0t expects of you. I was intentionally crude in response to what I perceived as a overtly crude bigotted insult, ya got me there. "Do you really expect me to copy and paste every arguement you've had with regulars that went beyond simple audio debate? Are you really trying to tell me that you haven't had problems with the majority of regulars here?" I don't care how you prove it but you have to prove it or else it's just mindless insulting BS with no basis for anyone to believe what you say. How many times have you seen me say this is this and you are this without some sort of proof for what I say? I know how to copy/paste and I use it to prove what I am saying. Not many people here do that much, they tend to rely on the "because I said so" logical fallacy. I can name the people who I know I'll have trouble with on this forum including you, so what's your point? You cannot make a sweeping statement that I've had problems with a majority of the regulars without proof - that is what I'm saying. You list those who I've not had problems with and there's quite a few of them on that list. And in fact I've had debates with several of them and it hasn't turned into a problem. Yep, it takes two to make an argument, and as you say, I don't begin the arguments. No brag, just fact. "In all fairness to you, I haven't seen you personally attack anyone unprovoked. It usually starts with an audio arguement and goes wrong somewhere shortly thereafter." So what's your point? I don't turn it into an audio argument, I state facts and people get upset when someone says, "No, you're wrong and this is how it really is", and then I provide proof of what I am saying with copy/paste and links. You paraphrased my opinion of how to conduct yourself on this forum, now go back and look at it again. Do I occasionally tweak someone because they're being hypocritical and I can provide the quotes to prove it? Yeah, but that's part of principles, to call out hypocrisy when it exists. Is that having a bit of fun on my part? Yeah, but I thought that's what you guys wanted here, to have some fun? So I'm not allowed to have fun and exercise my principles at the same time? Oh, I get it. Even when I provide proof of the hypocrisy I'm not allowed. Uh-huh. Facts get such a bum rap on this forum, don'ja think? "But no one here has anywhere near the level of arguements with anyone other than you and the occasional troll." But that's my fault because someone else started it and escalated it because they didn't have facts behind them and I did? Is that your point? Get real, Stu. I stand up for what I know and believe. Can we move on now? "The discussion was something along the lines of moving speakers around for placement. Your comment was (paraphrasing) - 'If you don't want to keep getting up, hire a couple of Hispanics to move the speakers around for you.' I said it then, and I'll say it now - Its a racist comment." I remember that somewhat and what I remember is not what you've posted. I remember saying "get yourself a few $8 an hour Hispanics ... " because too many people see immigrants and minorities or those underemployed souls as cheap labor to mow their yard, clean their house or do manual labor like moving heavy things around. Pointing out that fact is not what I consider a racist statement on my part, not then and not now. If that's where you lost what little respect you had for me it sounds as if you didn't have much to loose and you just might have been looking for a reason to misplace that respect, eh? Start with very little and it's pretty easy to loose it. So that's my fault too? "Here's what I should have said before I left - All Hispanics aren't illegal aliens. Actually, very few are illegal. As you probably know, a Hispanic person is a person from Latin American descent. Would saying 'get a few Blacks to do it for you' be tolerated? Its no different in any way, shape or form." I wouldn't have said that. I would have said get yourself a few $8 an hour Blacks to do the dirty manual labor you don't want to do. And my guess is most anyone of any race scraping by on doing $8 an hour manual labor for "the man" would get what I'm saying. Since you aren't telling me you are one of those $8 an hour workers, I think you don't really have a leg to stand on when you complain. Tell you what, why don't you go down to the labor pool in front of Home Depot tomorrow morning and say that to them, see how many are offended and how many get what's being said. "All Hispanics aren't illegal aliens. Actually, very few are illegal. As you probably know, a Hispanic person is a person from Latin American descent." Don't patronize me, Stu, it's the same as being a big0t. As you say, you have no respect for me, there's no need to spew it out on the page. But don't patronize me, OK? You want to rehash the $8 an hour debate, start another thread, I'll be glad to go over this again - after you've been down to HD labor pool. "Walk away. For a guy who doesn't 'comprehend things well,' I comprehend that one pretty well." Well, see? I think you prove several of my points by not comprehending and by not having proof. I stopped the insults with tree on Saturday AM by saying I had better things to do and he would be on ignore function. Go back and look if you want some proof. You posted part of what I said to him earlier. You don't remember that far back? The thread where the original comment of concern in this thread exists is over now. I proved my point in that thread and it's over. I fired both barrels and it's over. Just what else would you have me do? What else would you have me do that I would have done? I've told you how I prefer to face bigotry and so you need to get just a little respect for what I choose unless you've faced the same situation. Don't lecture me and don't patronize me, Stu. I don't even want to hear it when it comes from someone without respect for me and my personal values. I didn't start the conflict and I don't want to hear from you how I should have handled it when you clearly don't have your facts straight. "You say that people can't handle it when you prove them wrong. After you prove them wrong, they resort to insults and personal attacks." I say that and you've said that. Look, here's what you just said, "In all fairness to you, I haven't seen you personally attack anyone unprovoked. It usually starts with an audio arguement and goes wrong somewhere shortly thereafter." So what's your point, Stu? You can contradict yourself? Join the crowd, there's a lot of that going around this forum. "How does saying people attack you because you constantly prove them wrong not make you sound like a victim?" I don't know, how? You said it, does that make you say that I'm a victim? You've sort of confused me here, Stu. I don't play the victim because I do stand up for myself, like this discussion we're having now. So what you've asked is not something I can answer. If I don't start it but I won't stand for it, does that make me a victim? I don't think so. So what's your point? "How does saying 'he started it' not make you a victim?" You're a victim if you want to be one. I don't and I stand up for what I know and what I believe. If someone does something to you without your provocation or consent and you wallow in being a victim, then you are victim by your own design. If you stand up for what you believe in and you have facts and truth on your side, then I don't believe anyone would be called a victim other than in the eyes of the law in legal issues where you are the vicitm in name only. Does that help, Stu? Are we done now? . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14019 Registered: May-04 | . Aren't you guys getting tired of yapping insults when you have no proof? I sure am tired of you doing it and it wouldn't appear most of the other members are paying any attention to you so you're not scoring points with them. Though you have announced and proven your desire to be intentionally stupid for all time so the next time you insult me in another thread everyone will know, "oh, there goes that idiot tree again being an @ss. Why can't he let go of that grudge?" "Yet, I haven't see you apologize to anyone." Let's see, "And I apologize to anyone who feels they have been forced to read unintelligent blather." And there has been a boat load of unintelligent blather coming from "you guys". Happy now? That was my second post in this thread. "Practice what you preach." I do, with copy/paste quotes and links to pertinent information. That you don't like being proven wrong is not my issue until you just can't find the point where you need to shut up. If you continue to give me the opening, I will continue to prove you are an idiotic shouter. "And that is the fundamental problem, here." No, it's the issue you just can't let go of. Why not address the real fundamental issue here instead of continuing to take advantage of an opportunity to insult me? tree, you've become very, very boring and proven to everyone that you are an intentionally stupid idiot. "You talk a big game, but you have convinced yourself all these principles, values and rules don't apply to you." Principles are principles, that's the fundamental issue of this thread. What applies to you applies to me. But you haven't provided any proof that I've been untrue to my principles. All you've done is taken every opportunity to insult me with baseless hatred that exists only in the mind of you and the few others on this forum who have problems with me. You and Rantz and someone who says they have no respect for me are the only ones still shouting insults at me. Shouldn't that tell you something, tree? I get it that some people don't like me. I don't care once I consider who it is that would make it on that list. Why should I care if someone who doesn't know when to shut up and someone who has no proof for anything they say and another who posts bigotted comments about me fueled by his hatred for me and his unending grudge don't like me? Didn't you see the post where I said I came here to discuss audio with someone intelligent? How many times do I have to say it? Provide proof and then we can talk. Scream insults for a week and there's nothing I can do other than dismiss you as another intentionally stupid shouter who continues to prove my point for me. "You're always the victim and everyone else owes you." I'm just not going over that part again. Get real with Stu, you both need to think a bit more and shout a bit less. "As far as insulting goes. You're not ever immune from it, are you?" You are an idiot, aren't you? It's an insult if you take it as an insult. It's a challenge when you decide to use facts to prove the other person is wrong. You make it what it is, not allow it to be what the other person wanted it to be. Both barrels when necessary. You have no facts, you just shout. You make up crap and you shout it, therefore, you are an idiot and always will be an idiot. You've announced you are proud of being an idiot and you have every intention to remain an idiot. I've tried but I can't make a rock become a king. If you take that as an insult, prove me wrong. Do more shouting and you are proving yourself to be an idiot over and over and over again. Got that? "BTW, what line are you refering to that was Bigotry in motion?" ROTFLMF'ingAO!!!!! Let's wrap this up. The issue here is Rantz's wording and his intent. If all you care to do is shout more insults at me, I'll take advantage of your blatant idiocy and I'll do more of this. Get it? Got it? Good! Go do something productive. . |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 687 Registered: Jul-07 | "I would have said get yourself a few $8 an hour Blacks to do the dirty manual labor you don't want to do. And my guess is most anyone of any race scraping by on doing $8 an hour manual labor for "the man" would get what I'm saying. " I wouldn't agree on this one JV. It's about how it likely to be received, not necessarily how its intended.....and to me that's either over the line or far too close to it to risk typing or saying it. I can understand how you explain you meant it, but the odds you're going to p!ss someone off with that one if you're in a crowd are pretty high IMO. If you're standing in a group of mixed race people and you single one of them out with that remark, what are you saying ? Isn't the one you singled out going to ask him/herself "why is he singling me out?". |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3508 Registered: May-05 | I forgot to add to my lengthy post... Mentally handicapped is not a politically incorrect term. Neither is mentally retarded. Neither is Black, Jew, Hispanic, etc. In case you haven't figured it out yet, which all evidence points to the fact that you (and a number of others) haven't, it's the way people use said terms that makes them politically incorrect. Or better yet, it's not politically incorrect to call someone mentally handicapped. It's politically incorrect to call it to someone who obviously isn't. It's not politically incorrect to say 'X number of Jews were killed.' It politically incorrect to say 'Of course he's cheap, he's a Jew.' It's not politically incorrect to say 'He's black.' It's offensive to say 'Of course he's a criminal, he's black.' That was also my point of the Hispanic comment, in case you couldn't figure it out, as well as the Jap comment muttered by someone else (although the word Jap itself in the US shouldn't be said). I thought you were sharp enough to figure this stuff out without it being spoon-fed to you. I guess not. I know you're going to pull some sort of 'How do you know he isn't mentally handicapped?' or 'the definition of mentally handicapped is...' That's your usual BS MO. Just about everyone sees through it and very few are impressed. The b!got sees the words themselves as politically incorrect, wonders why, complains that he/she can't say anything anymore, and complains that everyone is too uptight. The educated person actually understands why they're considered politically incorrect and doesn't use them in the wrong context. I agree that some people take PC too far. I'm not talking about that. Me calling you out on calling someone mentally handicapped just to fire back at them isn't taking it too far. If you think it is taking it too far, contemplate this - Would you say that to him or about him or anyone else in front of my cousin? Would you say that in front of HER mother? What would their reaction be? Tell me with a straight face you wouldn't look like a b!got in that situation. Tell me with a straight face that you wouldn't be embarrassed. Then again, maybe you wouldn't. I made the mistake of calling someone a retard in front of a mentally retarded person once. I was 15 or 16 at the time. The look on everyone's face was more than enough for me to realize the mistake I made. Especially the look from the person who was actually retarded. I haven't used the term in that manner since. It was pretty humbling to be taught something by someone who is far less intelligent than I am. You should try it some time. For a guy that doesn't "comprehend anything," at least I comprehend that. For a guy who needs constant proof of wrong doing and comprehends far more than I do, I think you need to take a closer look at things. Not just the 'PC garbage,' but the way to talk to and treat people. You're going to continue to have problems here until you change the way you act. Hopefully it's just here and not anywhere else. Highly doubtful, but you never know. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10818 Registered: Feb-05 | The proof can be found in most of your posts Jan. It doesn't require any kind of search to find your disrespectful language to all of us here. To you we are all idiots who must play or post by your rules. I have always refused to do that and I always will. This forum belongs to all of us and I fully intend to use it in the way that I please and I hope that all of us feel we have that opportunity. I apologize to you Jan for having to read the blather about your gender, that is inexcusable. I will say again though that the issue is not the occasional manifestation of the "isms" that we all know exist in our culture, but instead the personality clashes that take place here that drag the whole forum down for the ride. Jan, you have knowledge that if delivered with respect would have you held in great esteem and justifiably so. Unfortunately you chose to deliver it in a way that is frequently disrespectful. That's a choice that you make and since this not the first time you've read it, I'm sure you know that many of us feel that way. You also have shown that those of us who feel that way have no value to you, I'm not sure why you believe that you should have value to us. I'm sure that you will ask me to prove that last statement, all I can say is look at this thread and a number of other of your recent interactions here and if that doesn't prove it, then so be it. We have a great example of a forum member who is in the audio business and who knows how talk to people in a way that he can be heard and that's Frank Abela. Very knowledgable and treats the forum members here with respect. Jan, I respect your knowledge and your approach to audio. None of us here have the level of knowledge you do and I for one do not want to, and that's ok. Please understand that we all approach audio from a different place. It doesn't make us idiot's, we simply have different priorities and again that's ok. I hope this doesn't lead to anger as that is not my intent, however if it does I'm sorry. We always stand between the message and our reaction to it. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2966 Registered: Oct-04 | "You're being overly-PC. And your comment regarding decent behavior/treatment towards women in North Carolina, is ridiculous. I grew up in the New York and New Jersey area. Lived there most of my life (36 years). Don't patronize me about real world treatment of women in North Carolina, compared to New York. I've seen way too many abused, raped, mollested and in some cases....killed women in NY and NJ; to buy into that nonsense." That's me, Mr. PC, easily offended by anything the New York Times Editorial page tells me to be sensitive to. You know the strange thing is, I'm closing in on 3K post and I can't remember the last time I've been motivated to report a post? If what you posted were a joke, well it wouldn't be the first time a joke flopped or went over my head, but considering how both you & M.R. were piling on and pressing the whole gender issue, I think The Joke Theory is to be expected, because the alternative isn't fun; or is that just my PC side taking? I'm relieved to know that the good folks in NC don't harbor the same latent & not-so latent animosity towards women that I've seen on these pages over the past few days, not that I ever thought it was at issue. Now I have to go set my DVR for The Rachel Maddow Show & monitor last night's Michael Savage Show for my weekly report to the FCC. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14020 Registered: May-04 | . I didn't single anyone out and I wouldn't do that. What do you take me for, CH? I suspect the people who I might p!ss off would be the ones using the $8 an hour labor force without a thought to their welfare. Those people who ask a lot and give very little in return. Though in my experience most of them wouldn't get what I'm saying. Do you tip the six guys who pile out of the truck to mow your lawn and then pile back in to go do another lawn? Do you tip the guy in the street who digs the ditch that provides clean water for your house? Levels your foundation? How about the guy driving the bus? Maybe you think they are getting paid d@mn fine wages for what they can do and you don't bother. Maybe you think you're paying a pretty high price to have your lawn mowed by guys who don't have a HS diploma. Maybe you don't, I don't know. All I know is what I experience. And I know what most of these people do is hard work that's very boring. And people pass them by without a thought or complain when they see them in the stores. I have neighbors like that. If you're not one of those people, congratulations. But more often than not this sort of bigotry is very much like any other. It's not about what you think but what you allow yourself to think. If you went to the labor pool in front of HD and said you wanted some $8 an hour migrant workers, yeah, you'd insult someone. But they'd take the job in many cases. But why not consider what these people have to talk about when they're with others working under the same conditions. They talk about those people who take advantage of them for $8 an hour. I can guarantee that, I've done some of those jobs between sales positions. People on the bottom complain abut people on the top just like the top complains about the bottom. It's human nature to complain. I am speaking from my experience. If you have a different experience, we have different points of view. I can't not insult everyone at times but I can see what I think is the prevailing opinion drawn from my own experience. Some of the immigrants don't care to be called Hispanic because they come from a specific area of the world. I might offend some of them if I lump them all into the "Hispanic" group. Not because of my intent but due to their preference. Then its up to me to not do the same again. I get tired of people mangling my last name when they don't stop to ask how it's pronounced. There's a little bit of arrogance in what they are doing. . |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3510 Registered: May-05 | You should definitely read this one. Its got a stupid title, but you can't judge a book by its cover... http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034 |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 317 Registered: Aug-04 | " Aren't you guys getting tired of yapping insults when you have no proof? I sure am tired of you doing it and it wouldn't appear most of the other members are paying any attention to you so you're not scoring points with them. Though you have announced and proven your desire to be intentionally stupid for all time so the next time you insult me in another thread everyone will know, "oh, there goes that idiot tree again being an @ss. Why can't he let go of that grudge?" "Yet, I haven't see you apologize to anyone." Let's see, "And I apologize to anyone who feels they have been forced to read unintelligent blather." And there has been a boat load of unintelligent blather coming from "you guys". Happy now? That was my second post in this thread. "Practice what you preach." I do, with copy/paste quotes and links to pertinent information. That you don't like being proven wrong is not my issue until you just can't find the point where you need to shut up. If you continue to give me the opening, I will continue to prove you are an idiotic shouter. "And that is the fundamental problem, here." No, it's the issue you just can't let go of. Why not address the real fundamental issue here instead of continuing to take advantage of an opportunity to insult me? tree, you've become very, very boring and proven to everyone that you are an intentionally stupid idiot. "You talk a big game, but you have convinced yourself all these principles, values and rules don't apply to you." Principles are principles, that's the fundamental issue of this thread. What applies to you applies to me. But you haven't provided any proof that I've been untrue to my principles. All you've done is taken every opportunity to insult me with baseless hatred that exists only in the mind of you and the few others on this forum who have problems with me. You and Rantz and someone who says they have no respect for me are the only ones still shouting insults at me. Shouldn't that tell you something, tree? I get it that some people don't like me. I don't care once I consider who it is that would make it on that list. Why should I care if someone who doesn't know when to shut up and someone who has no proof for anything they say and another who posts bigotted comments about me fueled by his hatred for me and his unending grudge don't like me? Didn't you see the post where I said I came here to discuss audio with someone intelligent? How many times do I have to say it? Provide proof and then we can talk. Scream insults for a week and there's nothing I can do other than dismiss you as another intentionally stupid shouter who continues to prove my point for me. "You're always the victim and everyone else owes you." I'm just not going over that part again. Get real with Stu, you both need to think a bit more and shout a bit less. "As far as insulting goes. You're not ever immune from it, are you?" You are an idiot, aren't you? It's an insult if you take it as an insult. It's a challenge when you decide to use facts to prove the other person is wrong. You make it what it is, not allow it to be what the other person wanted it to be. Both barrels when necessary. You have no facts, you just shout. You make up crap and you shout it, therefore, you are an idiot and always will be an idiot. You've announced you are proud of being an idiot and you have every intention to remain an idiot. I've tried but I can't make a rock become a king. If you take that as an insult, prove me wrong. Do more shouting and you are proving yourself to be an idiot over and over and over again. Got that? "BTW, what line are you refering to that was Bigotry in motion?" ROTFLMF'ingAO!!!!! Let's wrap this up. The issue here is Rantz's wording and his intent. If all you care to do is shout more insults at me, I'll take advantage of your blatant idiocy and I'll do more of this. Get it? Got it? Good! Go do something productive. " And yet the reflection you're staring at eludes you.  Truely, I don't have to say another word. Nothing I could say illustrates my points more, than, your own words. Hilarious. Enjoy your life of denial and your life long stay in the state of oblivious. In the future, when inevitably you find yourself in the exact same argument and situation with everyone else; I'll just swoop in and laugh. No words needed. Just a laugh. Good day to you, Sir. Good day to you, Ma'am. There. Both bases are covered }}} |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3511 Registered: May-05 | I suspect there's a whole bunch of posts crossing. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14021 Registered: May-04 | . "Or better yet, it's not politically incorrect to call someone mentally handicapped. It's politically incorrect to call it to someone who obviously isn't" And I told you I do believe someone who is so virulently proud of being intentionally ignorant and is proud to shout about how they are going to remain so despite the easy opportunity to become better educated would offend those who would love only to have the capacity for that knowledge. You are chasing your tail. "It's not politically incorrect to say 'X number of Jews were killed.' It politically incorrect to say 'Of course he's cheap, he's a Jew.'' I don't see your point unless you truly believe I would say the latter. You are rambling trying to make some non-existent score. Be concise and to the point, please. What is your point, you are more sensitive than I am? This is pc run amuck. Have you kissed your garbage man today? "I know you're going to pull some sort of 'How do you know he isn't mentally handicapped?' or 'the definition of mentally handicapped is...' That's your usual BS MO. Just about everyone sees through it and very few are impressed." And that shows just how little knowldege you have of me and why you've so easily tossed away what little respect you might have had for me. You think I would stoop to the level of what comes out of your mind. And you condemn me for something I haven't said or done. Well done, old chap! That'll teach them a lesson! "I agree that some people take PC too far. I'm not talking about that. Me calling you out on calling someone mentally handicapped just to fire back at them isn't taking it too far. If you think it is taking it too far, contemplate this - Would you say that to him or about him or anyone else in front of my cousin? Would you say that in front of HER mother? What would their reaction be? Tell me with a straight face you wouldn't look like a b!got in that situation. Tell me with a straight face that you wouldn't be embarrassed. Then again, maybe you wouldn't." Same mistake, another and you're out. Oh, look, here comes one now .... "I made the mistake of calling someone a retard in front of a mentally retarded person once. I was 15 or 16 at the time. The look on everyone's face was more than enough for me to realize the mistake I made. Especially the look from the person who was actually retarded. I haven't used the term in that manner since. It was pretty humbling to be taught something by someone who is far less intelligent than I am. You should try it some time." One more time, accusing me of being as unfeeling or unthinking as you are is not proving anything about me. Show where I have used the word "retard" and we can talk. Continue to come up with your conjectures of what I have done and would do based on your own mistakes and we can stop now. Really, do you see the problem here? You have no proof, you have no logic and you are just making up BS. I cannot respond to made up BS, how many times do I have to repeat that? "For a guy that doesn't "comprehend anything," at least I comprehend that." No, no you don't. You have a problem with comprehension. Don't make that my fault too. "You're going to continue to have problems here until you change the way you act." One more time, second verse same as the first! I come here to discuss audio with intelligent people. You've said you have no respect for me and never did have much. I'm supposed to alter my behavior to make you happy? Why don't you go back and read CM's one post again about how we each do something on this forum? And stop being a PITA about how I am supposed to act to make you happy. I make myself happy. I suggest you do the same. It's not difficult, you just have to stop whining about what everyone else is doing wrong. . |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 318 Registered: Aug-04 | " That's me, Mr. PC, easily offended by anything the New York Times Editorial page tells me to be sensitive to. You know the strange thing is, I'm closing in on 3K post and I can't remember the last time I've been motivated to report a post? If what you posted were a joke, well it wouldn't be the first time a joke flopped or went over my head, but considering how both you & M.R. were piling on and pressing the whole gender issue, I think The Joke Theory is to be expected, because the alternative isn't fun; or is that just my PC side taking? I'm relieved to know that the good folks in NC don't harbor the same latent & not-so latent animosity towards women that I've seen on these pages over the past few days, not that I ever thought it was at issue. Now I have to go set my DVR for The Rachel Maddow Show & monitor last night's Michael Savage Show for my weekly report to the FCC. " 1) The whole gender issue regarding Jan, was not raised by me. It was the forums members here who decided to "inform" me of it along tiome ago. I never gave it a thought, till it was brought to my intention in a forum post and an e-mail. 2) It clearly was a joke and the joke wasn't even geared toward Jan. The joke was geared more toward Maris, who said that "for all he knew, we may like a d*ck up our azzes". He was clearly taking a shot at the forum members (which includes Jan) and it was an obvious homophobic jab. So I tried to turn it around on him and did a tounge-in-cheek joke about it; which included referencing this odd, long running confusion of Jan's gender. Never before this squabble have you or anyone ever seen me question, criticize or insult Jan about his/her gender. In my mind, it was a playful, good natured, yet naughty with a twist on the long running topic/confusion so many on this forum have discussed (and informed me about) and the rather crude comment by Maris. You're free to believe and take that joke in what ever way you believe suits you best. But I know what I meant by it. And it wasn't a vicious attack or suggestion on Jan. If it didn't come out right, then, I guess I didn't do a good job of formulating the joke. Badly delivered joke? yeah, probably. But I still find humor in it, lol. 3) There is no animosity towards women, here. You may perceive it that way, but I know in my heart you are wrong on that. So I'm okay with myself on that. Believe what you wish. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14022 Registered: May-04 | . "Truely, I don't have to say another word." Then don't. And did you have to copy/paste the whole post just to prove you could? Oh, and there's not "e" in "truly". You can take that as an insult if you must but it's just another one of my "facts". . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14023 Registered: May-04 | . I don't have time for you right now, Art. But, of course, I disagree and think the whole of what you've posted is BS turned out by yet another of my non-fans. You are on "the list" you know?  . |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 319 Registered: Aug-04 | " I'm supposed to alter my behavior to make you happy? I make myself happy. I suggest you do the same. " Jan Hello!!! Practice what you preach and remember it applies to all of us. So buzz off and leave those of us interested in your "education"....alone. I have some very good, polite and friendly options for audio science education, in the real world. Don't need the likes of you and your "education". |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14024 Registered: May-04 | . Stu, here's one you should read, it's (mostly) about establishing proofs; http://www.scribd.com/doc/7040352/Godel-Escher-Bach-An-Eternal-Golden-Braid . |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 688 Registered: Jul-07 | "I didn't single anyone out and I wouldn't do that. What do you take me for, CH? " I'm not suggesting you intended to single anyone out. I'm simply stating that saying "$8 an hour blanks"..., whatever you plop in there is singling one group out, unless you use a generic word like "worker". Whether it's Hispanics, Blacks, or any other group. You're singling that group out because of your experience, which I'm not questioning at all...that's your experience. But IMO if you made that comment in mixed company they wouldn't necessarily understand where the remark is coming from. They don't know your experience. Comments like that aren't going to be viewed through your lens. If you put the word Hispanics in there, they might think you meant that they should be the ones making $8 an hour, and that it's beneath a white person. If you were Hispanic and used the word Black, same deal. These things are powder kegs when misunderstood. Again, I'm not questioning your intent. I take you at your word. I'm just offering that the choice of words is open for misinterpretation. If what we're talking about here is truly "police your forum", we should be able to give honest feedback when we think a comment or choice of words is either inappropriate, or open to misinterpretation. Right ? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14025 Registered: May-04 | . My education? I never even expected you to be concerned with my education or to gain any education from me. You have to do this yourself. Maybe that's why you're having such a problem with this whole education thing? Nahhh, you just like being ignorant. I mean, you've said so yourself. Are you lying now or were you lying then? Don't go there, tree, we've proven you've got nothing other than insults and I can dish them out better than you can if you make an issue of it. You make such an easy target when you do. . . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14026 Registered: May-04 | . "If you were Hispanic and used the word Black, same deal. These things are powder keys when misunderstood." This is beating a slow horse with a lame leg. You've created a hypothetical that you want to impose on me. As above, unless you think I would do something to even unintenionally insult an entire group, then there is no reason to respond to such a hypothetical. Discuss something I've done or would do and we can talk. Hypotheticals put us in the realm of "when did you stop beating your wife". 'K? "But IMO if you made that comment in mixed company they wouldn't necessarily understand where the remark is coming from." And if it sparked an intelligent discusion, what would be the harm in that? . |
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Silver Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 115 Registered: May-08 | This is the most active I have seen this forum. It's a shame it's all a useless waste of time. I was hoping to see some music recommendations. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14027 Registered: May-04 | . What? you don't like to read? |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2154 Registered: May-06 | It takes a while for the pot to cool down once it has been removed from the burner. id, as to the Blackhawks, my favorite hockey team, 3rd favorite pro team after the Bears and White Sox. The Blackhawks have the best leather sports jacket of any pro team IMO! |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 512 Registered: Mar-04 | I will go one further, best jersey in sports period! Did you see that game against the panthers in Finland? We had the puck on a string, just wait we get Hossa back in December!!! Barring any major injuries and if the goalies are above average we will be tough to beat in the spring! |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 689 Registered: Jul-07 | "You've created a hypothetical that you want to impose on me." Not at all JV. I don't want to impose anything on you. "You've created a hypothetical that you want to impose on me" My mistake. I thought you had previously admitted to typing something like "get yourself a few $8 an hour Hispanics ... " My first point, however clumsily made, was that IMO that comment is easily misunderstood, and could offend. I understand you didn't intend it that way. My second point was that it doesn't matter what you intended if it offends. Just like you might get offended by something someone else might type that they didn't intend. That's all. If we agree to disagree, that's cool. We're done. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2772 Registered: Jun-07 | I will have to try the Blackhawks on NHL 2010 maybe tonight.lol. |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 513 Registered: Mar-04 | Only thing is after this season they are going to have some serious cap issues. They have to sign Keith, Towes and Kane at the end of the year. If they were smart they would do so before July 1st as I know there are teams who will offer a sheet on those players despite the steep compensation (especially Towes). Campbell at 7.15 per year is grossly overpaid and Huet at 5.6 is too. |
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Gold Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 1419 Registered: Apr-05 | "I don't have time for you right now, Art. But, of course, I disagree and think the whole of what you've posted is BS turned out by yet another of my non-fans. " You would do well not to dodge his comments Jan. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14028 Registered: May-04 | . I see your point, CH, but you must realize there will always be problems if someone goes looking for them. If, let's say, I had said "worker" rather than "Hispanic" as you have suggested, someone would have said I was a "socialist" who "wanted to share the wealth" amongst the working class and to he!! with everyone else. Not the "s-o-c-i-a-l-i-t-e" of GB style shouts but a real socialist. Since most anyone who would make that claim wouldn't know the difference between socialism - which is governing for the people by the people with shared resources - and "communism" - which is government of the ruled by the rulers and a division of resources among the elite and the masses with the elite coming out ahead - those shouters would then make the leap to Jan is a "communist". And we normally associate communism with Russia were "comrade" is a word for "worker'. "Comrade" has its origins in the Greek language and can also mean "friend" when used in the romantic languages such as Italian, French and Spanish which gets us back to "Hispanic" as a majority of Hispanics speak some form of Spanish as their main language root. Therefore, whether I was intending to call someone a worker, a friend, or a generically undefined "Hispanic" who represents many of the $8 an hour workers here in the US someone would be looking to make more out of it than existed and sooner or later we would end right back up at "$8 an hour Hispanic". See how that works? Particularly as the original comment occurred back in time when Lou Dobbs was flaming away on Hispanics with every problem that existed in the US and with every story. Come to think of it, Lou is still doing that so there's no rest for the shouters when it comes to words. Can you envision the problems involved here? . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14029 Registered: May-04 | . "You would do well not to dodge his comments Jan." I didn't dodge anything, I dismissed them. Jan non-fans are getting exceptionally repititious and have nothing new to shout. Oh, Lord! Art begins by once again offering no proof - too much work - then proceeds to how he thinks everyone knows what a sh!t I am. I have covered that territory a half dozen times at least in this thread and don't intend to do so again. Read, read ... read, read ... Then Art bloviates on how he will not bend to my will. Well for chrissake, I never said anyone should. I did ask why so many find it so difficult to get a bit of an education and got the answer that so many both enjoy being ignorant and intend to stay just as ignorant. Art was one of those with that answer. You can lead a horse'sass to water ... Then he supplicates himself before me with apologies of gender blather. I don't care about whether anyone here has called me Mr. or Ms. and, if I had, I would have corrected you all a long time ago. I am just an internet forum member whom most of you will never meet. If we meet, you'll stand a good chance of figuring it out for yourself. Everyone can just leave it at that as far as I am concerned. Oh, let's see ... "jan if you weren't such a sh!t ... blah blah blah." Yeah, well, read my posts above and pay attention for a change. Then, why can't you be more like Frank? Why can't I be more like the Dalai Lama? Or Ruth Bader Ginsburg? Because I'm not. Go read CM's post for godssake it's been there for almost the whole day. Then on to "Jan I respect your knowledge but you are a sh!t". If I had a dime for every Jan non-fan that has said that to me, I'd retire. Not because I could but to get away from all the Jan non-fans and their continued ignorance and blather. Hmmm .... "Please understand" ... "doesn't make us idiots" ... The rest is blather. If you can't figure out what makes you idiots, then you are idiots. There, I've covered it. Move on or stay in one place and get run over. . |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10819 Registered: Feb-05 | There you have it. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3512 Registered: May-05 | Just because someone insulted you in an inappropriate manner doesn't make it right to go back at them in a similar manner. Saying 'He started it' doesn't justify anything you say. You've done that time and time again. That's why I said you like to play the victim. Every time there's an arguement, you're in the middle of it arguing with multiple people simultaneously. Do you really not see that? If I have to copy and paste examples of that, you're not going to get it no matter how many examples I come up with. If we're so incapable of having intelligent conversation, be it audio, the meaning of life, or anything in between, why do you stick around? Why do you feel the need to talk down to people and berate them as often as you do? And when you do this, do you honestly think they're not going to come back at you? When someone says 'Hey Rantz, that gear looks great!' why do you feel the need to say 'No one's heard the gear and everyone goes gaga over it once a friend buys it without thinking about what he bought.' What's the point in that? Because someone started it first? One guy insulted you and you decided to insult him and his 'buddies'? Maybe if you talked to people like they weren't beneath you, you wouldn't be in the middle of all the BS. Maybe people would have some respect for you and listen to what you had to say. Those are the points I was trying to make the whole time. Somehow, someway, they got lost in all the BS. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2551 Registered: Nov-05 | I do not agree with what Rantz and NMT said to/about you. In fact, I think I made that clear when I said I was surprised at how low they sank. I also didn't know (and still don't) know the full extent of the sexist comments from Rantz. I thought I explained my intent quite clearly. If you disbelieve me Stu, then just say so and vote me off - I could care less. However it appeared or however it was taken, it was nothing more than an aside in relation to the fact that she never set the record straight when someone inquired as to her gender, it's been an enigma for some time - it was a dig at her. I'm not a b!got, I am not a woman hater, I'm not homophobic or anything else. I don't give a stuff if she comes back and flings more crap at me for my explanation, I apologised to her if she took it the wrong way. But I'm telling the truth and I don't like being called a liar. My other comment about my having my own ideas about her relates to her state of mind - nothing more, nothing less. It seems few here are accepting my explanation and I find that very disappointing especially from some. So there is no longer any need to vote. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 690 Registered: Jul-07 | "I see your point, CH, but you must realize there will always be problems if someone goes looking for them. " Agreed. And you're right, the audience, current politics, and sensitivity based on whatever life wounds one has can make it difficult to say much without rolling the dice on offending at least one person in the room. I guess it's just how safe you want to play it.....and as much as you can, know your audience. Peace. |
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Gold Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 1420 Registered: Apr-05 | As the most prolific contributor to this forum (I won't use your "bloviate" terminology), the dismissal of Art's succinct comments about your delivery and tone shows an inability to learn and perhaps change on your part that makes it difficult for others to take you up on your challenge to clean up the forum from personal attacks of any kind. If people are telling you that your posts are offensive to them, you are not in a position to tell them they shouldn't take offense. One insult is the same as another regardless of the "ism's" involved. |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 514 Registered: Mar-04 | "Why can't I be more like the Dalai Lama? Or Ruth Bader Ginsburg"? Actually Jan I get the impression you and Ruthie have alot in common. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3513 Registered: May-05 | "Art begins by once again offering no proof - too much work... As he said, the proof is the entire thread. All of us idiots see it, yet the smartest guy here doesn't. You're right Jan. Everyone else is crazy. You're the only sane one. If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale if you're interested. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14030 Registered: May-04 | . "If you disbelieve me Stu, then just say so and vote me off - I could care less." "It seems few here are accepting my explanation and I find that very disappointing especially from some. So there is no longer any need to vote." ROTFLMF'ingAO!!!! Stop it, Rantz! My sides are killing me from this stuff! . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14031 Registered: May-04 | . "One insult is the same as another regardless of the "ism's" involved." Nooooooo, noooooo, they're not. Oh, you guys are boring! If you ever applied any logic to what you post or just managed to post what is on the page instead of just making up these BS "rules" of how you want things to work, then I'd smack myself with a clawhammer. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14032 Registered: May-04 | . "Actually Jan I get the impression you and Ruthie have alot in common." I'm taller. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14033 Registered: May-04 | . "You're right Jan. Everyone else is crazy. You're the only sane one." No proof. Find the quote where I said that. Get it straight or don't say it. I don't debate made up BS. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14034 Registered: May-04 | . CH - Chi pecora si fa, il lupo se la mangia. |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 515 Registered: Mar-04 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98T3PVaRrHU Jan is a woman, I did not know that (and I don't care) and it wouldn't have changed anything I said before or will say in the future. When you gouged away at me I did not go for your eyes, I tried to be a bit unorthodox... I thought Jan similar to Jan Michael Vincent. You were a somewhat sophisticated man in his upper 50's, thin, gruff voice, in a smoking jacket drinking his scotch and listening to his vintage Mac gear... Taking some from Al Pacino's scent of a woman character and some of Brando's character in Last tango in Paris. I suppose the picture I was painting wasn't your portrait (as flattering as it was). Oh well, kind of like when you listen to someone on the radio and picture what they would look like. Anyway pardon the interruption and carry on... |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14035 Registered: May-04 | . "I thought Jan similar to Jan Michael Vincent." I'm taller than he is too. From what I've read he's about a Tom Cruise height. Definitely, definitely taller than that. And I've seen Last Tango, hey there! watch it, fella! . |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3114 Registered: Feb-07 | I've read the Carnegie book, Stu. While some it seems dated and a bit cheesy, it really is a good book. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 691 Registered: Jul-07 | Porta aperta per chi porta - chi non porta .. parta pur. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3115 Registered: Feb-07 | I bought a new car today. Let's change the subject. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 320 Registered: Aug-04 | ROTFLMF'ingAO!!!! ROTFLMF'ingAO!!!! ROTFLMF'ingAO!!!! ROTFLMF'ingAO!!!! Nothing like substance |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 321 Registered: Aug-04 | Open doors bring big, bloated bags of wind |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzPost Number: 2552 Registered: Nov-05 | Stop it, Rantz! My sides are killing me from this stuff! All I can do is barrack for your sides. Now that we have all determined your gender and, noting your choice language over the years, we can at least make one observation: You sure the heck ain't a lady! Yeah, yeah, we know - you never said you were! |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1304 Registered: Nov-06 | wow... I sure missed a lot hi everybody! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13658 Registered: Dec-04 | welcome again, GRC. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10820 Registered: Feb-05 | Gavin, whassup! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2773 Registered: Jun-07 | What kind of car did you buy David? ID- You see my Flyers take out Washington last night. BOOOMMMMM 5 Goals on the season for Richards in three games.lol |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3118 Registered: Feb-07 | Just picked up my new Mitsubishi Ralliart today Nick. It's awesome! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2774 Registered: Jun-07 | That is awesome David. Fantastic vehicle. You went Japanese. Good man. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3119 Registered: Feb-07 | Thanks Nick. My first import... always bought GM before but got tired of being hosed. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2775 Registered: Jun-07 | lol indeed. |
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Gold Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 1421 Registered: Apr-05 | I'm actually rather enjoying this debate, (most of it at least) thanks for bringing it up Jan. I'm hoping that something is learned even though not stated. For someone as dedicated to "logic" as you seem to be, I'm betting that's the case. "That's all right. These things gotta happen every five years or so, ten years. Helps to get rid of the bad blood. Been ten years since the last one." That car looks absolutely sick. Does it drive as fast as it looks? Blackhawks suck. Go Wings. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3120 Registered: Feb-07 | It's crazy Stof. Brought it home from the dealership last night. Went from 0-120 km in about 6 seconds. The turbo helps :-) Very solid handling too thanks to the AWD. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 322 Registered: Aug-04 | Man, the Capitals goaltending (Theodore and Varlamov ) looked like swiss cheese, last night. And even though Emery faced 36 shots, he sure didn't look much better. What a sloppy, fun game. Run and Shoot.......... |
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Gold Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 1422 Registered: Apr-05 | 0 - 75 mph in 6 seconds ... ouch. |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 516 Registered: Mar-04 | "Blackhawks suck. Go Wings." Ha, not this year! The wheels come off this year for the wangs, father time and all. We are going to smoke Detroit. We took Hossa, who did they replace him with? |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 517 Registered: Mar-04 | "Man, the Capitals goaltending (Theodore and Varlamov ) looked like swiss cheese, last night." We will trade you Huet and a bag of pucks for Ovie. |
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Gold Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 1423 Registered: Apr-05 | What good did Hoosa do for Detroit in the playoffs last year? Sorry man, no organization here yet. Hay what part of the city do you live in? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14042 Registered: May-04 | . "I'm actually rather enjoying this debate, (most of it at least) thanks for bringing it up Jan. I'm hoping that something is learned even though not stated. For someone as dedicated to "logic" as you seem to be, I'm betting that's the case." Learning and logic were the topics of another thread. This thread was about principles. . |
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Gold Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 1424 Registered: Apr-05 | Principles can be learned too. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14043 Registered: May-04 | . We can all hope. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 323 Registered: Aug-04 | " We will trade you Huet and a bag of pucks for Ovie. " First of all, I'm not a Caps fan. I'm a Rangers fan of well over 35 years. Secondly, yeah...okay Drink much? I'd me more than willing to trade you Aaron Voros for Jonathan Toews  hehehehe...... |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 324 Registered: Aug-04 | My Rangers go into Washington tomorrow night. Let's hope Lundqvist can keep the top shelf and inside post well sealed  Ovie and Semin are going to have tunnel vision, on those parts of the net. |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 534 Registered: Oct-07 | Principles? Logic? Learning? Jan, aren't you expecting a LOT from people? Next, you'll be expecting polite discourse and 'reasoned answers'. I've NEVER seen anyone post any Zen Koans before. My favorite is about the guy (Zen Master) who couldn't remember on which side of the door he placed his umbrella. 'Every Minute Zen'. Now, where is my copy of Zen Flesh / Zen Bones??? I know the BlackHawks are out of the running, but MAN, that is the BEST jersey in professional sports, IMO. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 325 Registered: Aug-04 | That's why they should trade Jonathan Toews to the Rangers, pronto! hehehe |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 518 Registered: Mar-04 | "I know the BlackHawks are out of the running" You are kidding right? Who are the top 5 teams in the NHL in your opinion? I would find it hard to believe the Hawks don't make the list. |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 519 Registered: Mar-04 | What good did Hoosa do for Detroit in the playoffs last year? Hossa was playing with a partially torn rotator cuff and from what I saw in the series against the Hawks he was a pain in the backside. The Hawks looked very good against Florida and this is without Hossa, just wait until we get him back. As far as Towes goes, my prediction is he retires a Blackhawk and gets a jersey in the rafters. |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 520 Registered: Mar-04 | Hey tree since you are a Rangers fan and you guys like big contracts, would you be willing to take Campbell off of our hands at the end of the year ? |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2776 Registered: Jun-07 | Detroit Pittsburgh Philly San Jose ? Chicago? New Jersey? Vancouver? Boston? Lots of solid teams this year. |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 521 Registered: Mar-04 | San Jose? On paper yes but even that is questionable. After the thornton - heatley line what do they have? Haven't been able to get the job done for years now, what makes this year any different? Philly, I just don't think so and with Emery in net I know so. Vancouver (remember last spring?) Detroit is on the downslide. Pittsburgh lost 2 d-men and I don't see how they replace them. Boston traded Kessel (who I am not fond of) Where are they going to get his 36 goals? I wish we had Lucic though, man what a horse! Jersey, well not enough firepower and Marty has to slip sometime. Guess that leaves Chicago !!!!!! |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 326 Registered: Aug-04 | I'm sure Leo was kidding on that comment. At least I thought he was, that's why I responded that way Unbridled ID, no thanks on that Campbell offer, lol. We have Del Zotto and Gilroy, now. Del Zotto a Rangers draft choice and Gilroy undrafted free agent. I think we're set with Power Play QBs....for the next ten years. While Slats likes handing out HUGE contracts. I'm not much into huge contracts, unless it's a true, real-deal player. Gomez, Redden and Drury, in my opinion, are NOT the kind of players you sign to 6...7 year deals; at 6-8 mil a year. Hell, I was ticked off when Slats signed Rozsival to a 5 mil/4 year deal. Ugh. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13661 Registered: Dec-04 | Go Leafs! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13662 Registered: Dec-04 | how about police your blue line?!? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3121 Registered: Feb-07 | Leafs??? Are you serious Nuck? At least you said it quietly.... |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 535 Registered: Oct-07 | I know less about hockey than you (anyone!) knows about sun spot activity. I was a skater as a kid, even fell thru the ice once, but never earned my spurs playing hockey. All I DO know is that with rare exception, maybe the Bulls and a few moments from the Sox and Bears, (I expect big things this year!) Chicago teams have disappointed me. As we all know, there is at least 1 Cubs fan in Witness Protection. I remember 'the day' of Bobby Hull. All I DO know is the Away Jersey is the best looking jersey in professional sports. Bar None! |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2156 Registered: May-06 | Leo, who could have guessed? The Bulls Jordan era was THE time to be in Chicago, especially for a Bulls fan from before the Sloan / Van Lier era. Heck, when the Bulls signed Rodman I asked my boss, a Knicks type if he too thought the Bulls would go undefeated that year. They only won 72 games because Phil Jackson shut them down the last week of the season. Blackhawks, I saw Bobby Hull extend out both his arms on the offense side of the blue line holding off two defenders then wrist pass the puck to Stan Mikita streaking in across the middle. GOAL!!!! I became a true Bears fan before Sayers and Butkus. Gale Sayers will always be the best football player that ever lived in my eyes. I do have a Cutler jersey, only one I ever owned. Met and spoke with Gale Sayers, Walter Payton, Michael Jordan, Frank Thomas, and a host of the 1986 Chicago Bears team No doubt you and id have similar regales regarding Chicago sports. Best sports moment? Watching my step-son pitch the park district little league World Series and win. First year on the team, wasn't a pitcher at the start of the season though he always felt he should have been. He was supposed to pitch 2 innings, went 6 1/3 of a 7 inning game. |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 537 Registered: Oct-07 | Yep, I'm nearly a complete sports illiterate. Being from Chicago, however, I have to hold up my end. Just like my friends from Glasgow hold up the Rangers end. (Rugby? Soccor? Field Hockey?) When still in short pants, spent many happy family moments in OLD Comiskey Park. And yes, we had season tickets in '59, a year which shall go down in infamy. Saw exactly 1 game in Soldier Field, a preseason against the Cardinals of St. Louis. I was awarded tickets since I was a star newpaper delivery kid. Started THAT racket when I was a couple months short of my 10th birthday, so you know how far back I'm going. Biggest / Best Sport in Chicagoland was still the original Mayor Daily.....Hizzonor. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13666 Registered: Dec-04 | The Hawks are going to surprise a lot of teams. I predict Calgary to win the cup. And Iginla (the best captain in the NHL) to win 13 fights, score 40 goals and tally 100 pts in the regular season. Oh, and miss only 6 games with a broken hand, from beating Ference to a pulp. |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 522 Registered: Mar-04 | Calgary doesn't have the firepower to go all the way. I do like Iginla and their D is solid (not as good as the Hawks though). |
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Gold Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 1425 Registered: Apr-05 | "Biggest / Best Sport in Chicagoland was still the original Mayor Daily.....Hizzonor." Have to disagree with you there. On a nice sunny day there is no better place than Wrigley field to catch a nap. Nice quite crowd, nothing happening on the field. Leo and Id where are you guys (or girls) at in the city? |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 523 Registered: Mar-04 | Think Svengoolie. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13670 Registered: Dec-04 | Finally a love-fest. go leafs |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3124 Registered: Feb-07 | Stop that Nuck. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13672 Registered: Dec-04 | OK, no more love-fest. go leafs |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3125 Registered: Feb-07 | You know what I mean... |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13673 Registered: Dec-04 | http://www.wiseacre-gardens.com/sound/elmer03.wav |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 609 Registered: Mar-04 | wicked long thread! i didn't read anything after the 1st couple pages but just wanted to pop in and say CANADIAN SPEAKERS. those are renowned from having a great "bang for the buck" ratio. i'm sure i'll be forgetting several brands, but these are all high value speakers... axiom paradigm energy & athena technologies i used to have a list at least twice that long years ago. i don't know what it is about canadian speakers... favorable exchange rates or simply non-american work ethics, but all of my reading has put canadian speakers at the top of value leader lists. to whoever said "klipsh" waaaaaaaaaaaay back *shudder* klipsch sucks unless you're hard of hearing and just need LOUD speakers, ESPECIALLY at the entry level end of their line. cambridge audio, JBL, polk, infinity & definitive tech all spank klipsch easily for sound quality, but canadian brands do it cheaper. |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 524 Registered: Mar-04 | Paul and Sue Barton? |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithCanada Post Number: 2230 Registered: Feb-04 | Well budget-minded, you might want to edit that list now that Klipsch owns Energy... and Mirage... and Athena Technologies. (They bought the parent company API a while ago.) But what does this have to do with policing your forum? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10948 Registered: Feb-05 | Another thread to let die...please. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3530 Registered: May-05 | I think he thought he was posting in the speaker bargains thread. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13780 Registered: Dec-04 | Badges? We dont need no stinking Badges. Next!!! |
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