|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 170 Registered: Sep-05 | I have 2 that are at the top of my list. Has anybody auditioned these? The WAF-1 have gotten some really good reviews at avsforum. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1171667 Emotiva ERM-1 http://emotiva.com/erm1.shtm Tweak City Audio WAF-1 http://tweakcityaudio.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypa ge&product_id=21&category_id=7&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1 |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13992 Registered: May-04 | . I'd say keep looking. The first pair is somewat unknown as far as actual information is concerned. The second pair is 4 Ohm nominal load, you'll need a hefty amplifier even for these bookshelfs. The third tells you the drivers are "class leading" but they don't tell you who builds the drivers, they might want to do that to prove their claims. Why don't you find a Paradigm dealer and check out the Atom V? It's not my favorite speaker in absolute terms but it will likely beat the pants off most of what you've come up with and most in this price range and you can buy it from a brick and mortar shop where you can audition speakers. Or, consider this, http://www.planet10-hifi.com/css.html . |
|
Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10780 Registered: Feb-05 | The Atom V5 and 6 are nice speakers and easy to drive. Also consider Wharfedales or Rega's (a little over your price but a very good deal) from STO. Good prices and Mike is easy to deal with. http://www.tsto.com/SearchResults.asp?mfg=Wharfedale http://www.tsto.com/product_p/2383.htm |
|
Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2950 Registered: Oct-04 | I still think those Diamond 8.2 with a 15% off coupon is almost too good a deal to pass on. http://www.tsto.com/articles.asp?ID=133 |
|
Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2951 Registered: Oct-04 | However, dollar for dollar, the Infinity Primus Series represents the single best value going IMHO. http://www.theaudiovideosource.com/InfinityPrimus.html I'd get two P162, or even better P362, and call it a day. http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1007inf/ http://hometheaterreview.com/infinity-primus-p162-loudspeaker-reviewed/ http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/infinity-primus-p162 http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/605infinity/ |
|
Silver Member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 506 Registered: Mar-04 | NHT absolute zero.. http://store.nhthifi.com/Absolute-Zero-White_2?sc=12&category=1210 |
|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 171 Registered: Sep-05 | Thanks for the suggestions, you guys are making it tough. I will add that I don't like "bright" speeakers, I prefer neutral. Right now I have av123 elt525m, they are on the laid back side, and not very efficient. Here is a review from audioholics on Emotivas ERM-1 & surround speakers ERD. They sound promising. http://audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/emotiva-er-5-0-speaker-system- review Also, how about Energy RC-10? Vann's has them for $300 & free shipping. |
|
Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2952 Registered: Oct-04 | I don't think anyone likes "bright " speakers. |
|
Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13619 Registered: Dec-04 | I have not heard the RC-10, but spent a little time with the RC30 at a guys place. His Totems were in for a redo in finish, he had these as loaners. He said he was going to buy the RC10 for cheap, as he felt the house sound was very close to the floorstanders. I agreed he should, and I trust his ears. |
|
Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10781 Registered: Feb-05 | After living with the Primus Series for awhile in both a HT application and a 2 channel application I'd say that I really like the P152 and would guess that I would like the P162 better yet. I didn't like the floorstanders. The cabinet is far too noisy and they don't have a good overall balance. |
|
Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13621 Registered: Dec-04 | Standmounts at this price point seems most likely. But pay for stands. |
|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 172 Registered: Sep-05 | I already have stands. |
|
Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13626 Registered: Dec-04 | Easier to call then. Check out the numerous standmount threads here. |
|
Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3501 Registered: May-05 | The NHTs sound very good for the money, but need a pretty hefty amp to drive them right. |
|
Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2953 Registered: Oct-04 | Those NHT are 8-lbs.? |
|
Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10785 Registered: Feb-05 | If you're not looking for a real loud speaker and it only needs to fill a very small room the Epos ELS3 is a wonderful little speaker. Far better than the Atom but a bit more of a load at 4 ohms. I drive my ELS3's easily in my home office with a 40 watt per channel Creek 4330. These speakers have been discontinued and can be had for less than $300 brand new in the box. |
|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 173 Registered: Sep-05 | Art, are epos neutral or laid back? Where can they be purchased under $300? |
|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 174 Registered: Sep-05 | I will add that I'm using a receiver to power the speakers(pioneer vsx-509s). |
|
Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10787 Registered: Feb-05 | The Epos are quite neutral, keeping in mind that they are not a high end speaker but just an excellent budget speaker. http://www.musicdirect.com/product/73457 Not sure about that receiver though...I'll look it up. |
|
Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10788 Registered: Feb-05 | If only driving 2 speakers the Pioneer would probably work for the Epos but the Atoms are probably a better match. Much easier to drive, Earlier versions of the Atom weren't very kind to amps. |
|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 175 Registered: Sep-05 | The Pio is driving only 2 speakers. |
|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 176 Registered: Sep-05 | Vanns has Energy rc10 for $300 free shipping. They are 8 ohm nominal & go down to 50hz. Here is the sensitivity rating, what is the difference between the two? • Sensitivity: 88dB (anechoic) / 91dB (2 speakers in a typical room) |
|
Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10789 Registered: Feb-05 | They are an excellent speaker...buy now! |
|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 177 Registered: Sep-05 | They are out of stock on the cherry which is what they have on sale for $300. I'm going to call them and see if they will sell the rosenut for $300 since that is the veneer I really want. |
|
Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2954 Registered: Oct-04 | As if this wasn't difficult enough, the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 are $249 @ STO S/V http://www.tsto.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=2614&CartID=0 http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/1105wharfedale/ There's a nice little comparison at the end of the review. |
|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 178 Registered: Sep-05 | The wharfedal's are know to be "warm" speakers, right? I prefer neutral. |
|
Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2955 Registered: Oct-04 | Trevor, with all due respect, you will be best served IMHO by deciding for yourself what a particular speaker, or speaker/amp combo, sounds like. Terms like "bright", "warm", "neutral", "laid back", etc. etc. get tossed around & stick, most often without any rhyme or reason from what I can tell. I strongly suggest you get out there & listen to what you can. All of the speakers suggested are extremely good, and how they will interact with your Pioneer, in your room, with your source, and the music you listen to, is all part of this game. |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13996 Registered: May-04 | . "Here is the sensitivity rating, what is the difference between the two? • Sensitivity: 88dB (anechoic) / 91dB (2 speakers in a typical room)" The difference is how the manufacturer wishes to present their specs to someone who doesn't know what specs mean. Watch the right hand while the left pulls out the rabbit. The speaker's basic sensitivity spec is 88dB. This by itself is about normal but average sensitivity specs can be off as much as 3dB due to the nature of how specs are measured and then stated and reality is faced by the consumer. Specs and measurements can be manipluated to look many different ways depending on the results desired. Weighting systems make many measurements all but useless for comparison sake. The moral of the story, be very careful about using numbers to judge any piece of audio. In the case of the second number presented, the two speaker spec merely reflects the increased sound pressure levels of an additional speaker or, IOW, add another speaker and things get louder - not much but they do get louder. The "in room" portion of the spec tells you nothing other than the room has boundaries which keep the soundwaves from escaping. As such a mild +3dB gain can be realized indoors as compared to playing these same speakers outdoors where the sound can dissipate into the open air. IMO, the second number, while not bogus, is an attempt to be less than truthful with the prospective client. That other manufacturers - or possibly this manufacturer is starting the trend - state their specs in a similar fashion only leads most manufacturers to do the same since too many people look at numbers as a guide to what they might buy. Once this trend has been started it will take only a short while before some enterprising marketing person goes to the engineering staff to find yet another semi-bogus number to slap on a piece of paper or an internet site. My advice would be to learn enough to realize when you are being sold a bill of goods and what numbers actually mean anything. Personally, I would even be wary of any manufacturer who thinks I am dumb enough to fall for their shenannigans. Same with words as CM suggests. Single words or descriptive phrases used to decribe sound are not very helpful and there is far more to the final result than whether a speaker is "bright" or not. . |
|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 179 Registered: Sep-05 | Jan Vigne, thanks for the info. I would have taken the lesser of the two numbers for the truer accuracy anyways. I was just curious as to why it stated it the way it did. |
|
Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10794 Registered: Feb-05 | The end of review comparison in the Stereophile review for the 9.1 does not reflect the current model of Paradigm Atom. The Wharfedale is a better speaker than the Atom IMO however it doesn't sound like the sound that you are looking for. Also, I found the 9.1 more difficult to drive with my Creek amp than the Epos. The amp was enough however I'm not sure your receiver will be. The Energy's still look like a good bet if find them at your price. As CM suggested if you find any to listen to in your part of the world that is always best. However I realize that it is not always possible. |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13998 Registered: May-04 | . "They are out of stock on the cherry which is what they have on sale for $300." One of the first things any salesperson learns is everything is on sale when it is out of stock. . |
|
Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13639 Registered: Dec-04 | B@stards |
|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 180 Registered: Sep-05 | They had some in stock last night. |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14002 Registered: May-04 | . Not always, Nuck, often sales is nothing more than playing political games with the other store. If someone tells the customer they can get so and so for such and such a price and you know they can't, the first question should be, "Do they have it in stock?" Then, "Do they have it in stock in that color, finish, model or whatever?" "Did you see it in the color, finish, model, or whatever?" You know they can sell it to you today, right?" "For that price?" If the other guy gave a price based on something they can't sell that day just to get the customer back in their store, then, yeah, you tell the customer what a b@stard they're dealing with and try to close on your own product and screw the other store. The hope with the other guy is they know the customer is shopping and who they can shop for the same product. The best hope once they're out the door is the customer will come back to get a price the store can't sell for and then the jerkwad tells them they don't have what they were discussing and tries to close on something else or just get some money as a deposit on something they might never get. No matter, the customer hasn't spent money with the other store. But once the customer is out your door, you've done half the work for the other store, all anyone needs at that point is a price that beats yours. It's like my father told me one time, "I don't care if you don't tell me the truth, just don't lie to me." It's always better not to say anything than to lie. More than once I've told a customer, "When I don't have it, I'll sell it to you for even less than they will. Now, what do you want to buy today?" . |
|
Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 301 Registered: Aug-04 | Trevor, Try auditioning the Jamo C603 Bookshelves. Maybe you'll like them. Maybe you won't. They fit into your price point and with quality current/power, they can easily fill a medium to large room. They sound very good. But they don't have real wood veeners. They come in black and Dark Apple laminates. Look nice, but not as nice as some of the better real wood veneers. So if aesthetics is a main concern for you and your preferences lean towards real wood veneers; in terms of aesthetics, they may not be for you. But they sure sound good. |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14007 Registered: May-04 | . He doesn't have "quality current and power", he has a Pioneer receiver. Very few receivers have "quality current and power". |
|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 181 Registered: Sep-05 | I'm might have to check out those jamo. I do have a dealer here in town. The specs on them are good, they say they go down to 45hz, hard to believe a bookshelf can go that low, but what do I know. |
|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 182 Registered: Sep-05 | I called vanns and they said the would sale the rosenut for $350, would this be worth it? Or should I consider something else since I really wanted to keep my purchase $300 or less. |
|
Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2959 Registered: Oct-04 | If you're pushing your budget to $350, then the EVO2-10 would be my suggestion. But I'll stick by my Infinity Primus P162 recommendation, they are extremely good, will save you a pocketful of cash, and can be easily driven by your Pioneer. |
|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 183 Registered: Sep-05 | Those primus are ugly looking. Looks of the speaker have some importance not nearly as much as sound, but I want a nice looking speaker that sounds good to. |
|
Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13643 Registered: Dec-04 | a connesour... hehe kidding Trevor, yes appearance can be somewhat to very important. Unless you live at my house. |
|
Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2960 Registered: Oct-04 | Well you wont get an argument from me, but I've found that they have a rugged, strictly utilitarian appeal. So let's move on. The Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 is still a great choice IMO, but is only available in BLACK for $249 from STO S/V. The KEF iQ10 do a lot of things right, and are real good looking to boot. For $289 from AC4L, they're a real good deal as well. http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/KEFIQ10WLN/KEF/iQ10-Two-Way-5- Bookshelf-Speakers-in-Walnut-Pair/1.html http://whathifi.com/Review/KEF-iQ10/ |
|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 184 Registered: Sep-05 | Kef, Mission, Wharfedale have been ones that I have never heard but would like to. What about Mission E52? What type of sound do these speakers known for? From what I have read wharfedale are laid back the rest I'm not sure. |
|
Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2961 Registered: Oct-04 | I loved my Mission M32i, I still regret selling them to this day, but I haven't heard the E52. There are plenty of reviews of Mission speakers on the web, but not too many for the E52 yet. |
|
Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2967 Registered: Oct-04 | And the winner is...drum-roll please... |
|
Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13660 Registered: Dec-04 | Hanging Chad? Dangling Trevor? Can't open the envelope? hehe |
|
Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 536 Registered: Oct-07 | How can anyone say, except by (educated) opinion? At this price point, the competition is ruthless, cutthroat, and need I add, merciless? Would anyone care to venture an opinion about at what point in money the curve flattens for you? I remember the Original Advent, part of which advertised that you could get some huge %age of the 'ultimate' sound, for a fraction of the price. The rule being that for nearly anything, it's the last couple % which costs the most. For 300$, the pair, a company should be able to do some pretty good work. Not in the ultimate catagory, but certainly satisfying and delicious. Could copies of the Original Advent be made today for 300$/pair? Would they sell? |
|
Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1305 Registered: Nov-06 | I would say take a look at these if you are looking for the "original" advent speakers! They are the Cambridge Soundworks model 6 speakers http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/store/category.cgi?category=spk_bookshelf%26i tem%3D53CW0115AA000 they are priced at $150 per pair and are a great deal for that price. They have a warm, smooth sound to them and are an easy listen. I have heard these at a CSW store and feel that at that price they are VERY hard to fault. |
|
Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1306 Registered: Nov-06 | I have KEF myself, and really enjoy them. The dual concentric drivers help them image like crazy. They have a midrange immediacy that is addicting. I will say that they like a bit of power. I would not recommend driving them with a receiver. They also didn't draw me in at first. Truth be told, when my dealer first pointed me toward them in the store I hated them. They sounded flat and dull next to some of the other speakers in the showroom...namely a pair of klipsch reference bookshelves (no kidding in hindsight) I trusted his judgement because he knows my taste. the more I listened, the more I enjoyed. I stayed in there for several hours and ended up ab-ing the speakers. I bought the KEF. BUT... I did listen to them on a receiver... this did not sound good at ALL. Sucked the life right out of the bass. The iQ3 has a tight, good to at least 40Hz in room response. I have never felt the need for a sub (same for my demo in the showroom). But when I switched to the receiver, the bass lost all definition and tightness. I am assuming that the new iQ30 will be the same. To my knowledge the only difference is the waveguide above the tweeter. |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14050 Registered: May-04 | . You couldn't build The Large Advent or even the Small Advent for that kind of money today and you wouldn't want to. The cabinets were made of particle board and not MDF (not that MDF is always the best answer but particle board is just not the right one today) and the parts quality while quite good for its time is rather antiquated today. There wasn't a single brace inside the Large Advent's enclosure for one thing. That magical Advent midrange? That was the box humming along to the music. You sure couldn't do a real walnut veneer for the price Advent charged. Kloss had the ear back then and there was magic in the Advents he designed brace or no brace, particularly when stacked. People generally preferred tham stacked on their sides IMO because it made for at least one thick piece of particle board somewhere on the speaker. The CSW was/is a nice inoffensive speaker well worth its asking price but it was never the Son of Advent. By that time Kloss was more interested in high quality tuners than in speakers and like he did with Advent and NovaBeam, CSW was just a good excuse to get funding for his radios. When I was selling it was fairly easy to show the improvements made by jumping from $500 per pair to $1k per pair and then from $1k to $2k. After that it got a bit murkier as diminishing returns came out and smacked you in the forehead and said, "What kind of stupe are you?" Selling the higher priced speaker generally meant you had to sell the higher quality electronics first though Klipschorns sounded about the same on most gear until you stuck some tubes on them. The sat/sub brought in by HT has changed some rules and you can do more for less IMO today than you could when I was selling complete speaker systems that traded off this for that. I would say for most people a $500 or less satellite with good quality and a Hsu sub for $349 and very careful set up would be a highly satisfying starter system that would carry you a long way before you ran out of music. Not to say you still wouldn't hear more from a $1500 satellite and a $2k sub but the low priced gear has always had some very, very good musical values even going back to before Kloss and Vilchur teamed up. . |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14051 Registered: May-04 | . " ... the more I listened, the more I enjoyed. I stayed in there for several hours and ended up ab-ing the speakers. I bought the KEF." Best advice IMO, don't buy the speaker that jumps off the shelf and impresses you in the showroom. You'll get tired of having your speakers jumping off the shelf and insisting you be impressed by them. Same goes for overly contrasty TV's. . |
|
Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1307 Registered: Nov-06 | I agree Jan.... I knew that going in there so I listened to them a little longer. I originally went in there to hear what Klipsch had come out with since I last heard their stuff and was unimpressed. I listened to a very bright speaker first and then listened to the KEF which was why I thought they were very dull and hated them right away. That hatred went away shortly when my ears accustomed themselves to the sound of the KEF. When I ab-ed them against the Klipsch (and not the other way) it became clear which one was the better speaker. I did demo against other speakers, but as of right now I am running late lol |
|
Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2968 Registered: Oct-04 | "I would say take a look at these if you are looking for the "original" advent speakers! They are the Cambridge Soundworks model 6 speakers" Those Model Six speakers go on sale for $99/pair from time to time, but since the OP thought the Infinity Primus were a bit hard on the eyes, I don't think the Model Six stand a chance. The KEF definitely strike the best balance IMO. |
|
Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13671 Registered: Dec-04 | Grab a few model 6's and brace the cab's? With butt ugly screws on the ousides and all? Add some liner material? The Advents (large) were always restrictd by quality. |
|
Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 540 Registered: Oct-07 | AH, nostalgia! I remember the Large Advents and the times I heard them very fondly. I'd like to hear some today, just to compare. I guess in this case there really is 'progress' and even counting inflation you can get a bigger bang for the buck today than yesteryear. I'll bet a pair of the Cambridge #6s would go great in the garage, driven by my IR class 'd' amp. Source? TBD. I could be 'all in' for 300$, counting the battery charger! |
|
Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 186 Registered: Sep-05 | I ended up with Energy RC-10 in cherry veneer. They are a much improvement over av123 elt525m. Better bass, not as laid back sounding as the elt's. Better looking cabinet. |