Archive through September 28, 2009
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Bronze Member Username: BunnyBig D, Texas Post Number: 59 Registered: May-05 | Hello guys, Have NAD C-372 NAD C-542 Room 16 x 13 x 8 Mostly Classic Rock Jazz Easy lestening Classical Son don't listen at very loud volumes but likes nice tight bass, prefers floorstanders Thank you all ! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10294 Registered: Feb-05 | The Jamo's that NMyTree has sound like a good fit...NMT...where are ya man! |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 884 Registered: Jun-08 | What's up Bugs? Sorry, couldn't resist. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 182 Registered: Dec-06 | According to The Absolute Sound it is probably the NHT Classic Three. Rega RS1 is brand new and probably deserves a look. It's getting good reviews so far. I think it's about $700. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10295 Registered: Feb-05 | The RS1 won't have much bass and is not a floorstander which were in the OP's list of requirements. The NHT's bass is pretty big but not exactly tight. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 261 Registered: Aug-04 | It does seem the Jamo C607 would be a perfect fit for that size of a room, Art and Bugs. The type of music he'll be listening to fits perfectly, bause the C607 are good with any type of music. And the NAD C-372 should drive the Jamo C607's wonderfully. Definitely try to audition the Jamo C607, if you can. They seem like a perfect fit. You should be able to buy them for under $700.00. Mostly in the $650- $670.00 range. Anyone who tries to charge you more than that, is taking you for a ride. http://www.jamo.com/na-en/products/c-607-description/ |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 184 Registered: Dec-06 | Didn't notice the floorstander preference. Rega RS3 then I guess, but those are over $1,000. Maybe the Wharfedale Diamond 9.4. I see STO has them on sale at $299.99. That's pretty impressive, I'm assuming it's for the pair. I remember you guys were questioning whether it was A stock or not at STO, not sure what came of that. Also PSB Image T45 or T55 come in at under $1,000; and they should match well with NAD as the two companies are owned by the same parent and are often paired together. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2777 Registered: Oct-04 | Monitor Audio RS6 for $875 + s/h http://www.digitalcraze.com/Details.asp?Source=Froogle&ProductID=3226 http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/306monitor/ http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/monitor_audio_silver_rs6.htm |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12965 Registered: Dec-04 | Boing!!! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2639 Registered: Jun-07 | Wholly crap. lol Good find Chris. LOL Nuck. I got mine for 1000 taxes in from my local dealer. Double BOING BOING!! |
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Bronze Member Username: BunnyBig D, Texas Post Number: 60 Registered: May-05 | Thanks a lot guys ! Some nice speakers you have recommended, first reaction is ...get the MA's !!!! We'll see. I truly appreciate it |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12970 Registered: Dec-04 | You really need to hear them, wabbit. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2851 Registered: Feb-07 | It's wascally wabbit Nuck. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3397 Registered: May-05 | Duck season... |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10300 Registered: Feb-05 | I wouldn't dismiss those Jamo's. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12973 Registered: Dec-04 | Me neither. |
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Bronze Member Username: BunnyBig D, Texas Post Number: 61 Registered: May-05 | Still on the maybe list, thanks ! Thank you waffy Nuck ! Sorry hehehehe |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 262 Registered: Aug-04 | This is what I think of the differences between the two( Monitor Audio RS6 and Jamo C607). The R6's have all metal based drivers. Which in a some designs makes the speakers sound brighter...edgier (is that even a real word  ). Edgier? From what I understand that's not really the case with the R6. Not overall bright or fatiguing. They seem to have a more in your face presentation , but are a wee-bit brighter when compared to the Jamo C607. The R6 have nice, real wood veener finishes. So if that's important to you, then the R6 is the one for you. The Jamo C607 uses a silk/textile tweeter. The Jamo C607 utilize a "Dark Apple" laminate finish. It is well done and looks nice. But not as nice as the real wood veeners of the R6. The Jamo C607 has a slightly more polite presentation; with a ton of musicality. They have nice dynamics, but the R6 kick just a wee-bit harder. I like the bass response of the C607 better. But that could be just a difference between the dofferent placement and rooms where I heard the two models. (was not a side-by-side comparison). The Jamo C607 are a bit less expensive. Money saved. I don't think I have to say, that, I prefered the Jamo C607. But it's all a matter of personal taste. To each...his own. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12990 Registered: Dec-04 | The RS6 with Rotel power was said to cause David's ears to bleed. I like the NAD/RS6 idea, from here, anyhow. STILL cant find a Jamo dealer to listen, darnit. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 263 Registered: Aug-04 |  Sorry to hear you're still having problems finding a Jamo dealer for auditioning purposes. It boggles my mind that the dealership and availibility of auditioning is so non-existent. You know, this seems to be a fairly common flaw in Jamo's distributorship and marketing. Which is a shame. I wish you better luck in the future. Or a trip down my way  |
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Bronze Member Username: Just_wax_itMontreal, Quebec Post Number: 27 Registered: Jun-09 | RS6 are one of the best value for money speakers in their respective price range. Jamo doesn't come close. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10351 Registered: Feb-05 | I'd still have a listen if you can find them. As many preferences as there are speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: Just_wax_itMontreal, Quebec Post Number: 29 Registered: Jun-09 | "Tight bass"... Jamo isnt exactly known for controlled or tight bass. I would use my time on something more worthwhile like auditioning a pair of Wharfedales or Quads. Quads have all the control one could ask for altough they do have a tendency to sound little harsh with certain electronics but this only because of their exellent capabilities in transparency and resolution. You can get the exellent L-series smaller floorstander, perhaps even the bigger 22 for under a grand. Honestly, I just wouldnt put Jamos on the same league with Monitor Audios. And actually would consider the RS6 against any speaker in this price range. Monitor Audio is known to deliver the goods for the least amount of money and they have a sound which pleases more ears than most speakers which makes them a safe bet and a terrific first step to quality sound reproduction. Just my two cents though. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 264 Registered: Aug-04 | Raheem Stream, you may want familiarize yourself with the Jamo C603 (bookshelf $300+ price range), the C607 (Floorstanders... $650-$700 price range), the C803 (bookshelf.....in the $700- $800 range), the C807 (floorstanders...$1,100 price range) and ........the C809 (floorstanders.....$1,500 price range). Nothing flabby about the bass on all of those speakers. In fact, each one of those speaker models do bass very, very well. If the bass on the recording in tight....that's what you'll get from these Jamo models. Tight, controlled, musical, rhythmic ...even deep powerful bass. With the C80 Series (C803, C807, C809) even better than the C603 and C607 in that low frequency range. Have ever heard these Jamo models, Raheem? These Jamo speaker models pump out some very impressive bass. A quality power supply, from a quality Receiver or power amp is definitely required. Cheap Receivers with cheap, poorly designed power supplies will fail to drive the Jamo's efficiently. I've heard the R6. I found them no better in the bass frequencies, than the Jamo's I listed. I did find the bass if the Jamo's more tuneful, more musical. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2647 Registered: Jun-07 | Did the pair of you guys hear the two speakers(Jamo and RS6) speakers on the same setup, same room, side by side in a full out A/B test. If not, both your arguments go out the window. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3757 Registered: Sep-04 | I must admit I've never been impressed by Jamo speakers. They sound all boom tizz to me...(sorry NMT) |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10356 Registered: Feb-05 | I haven't listened to Jamo's for quite sometime. I figgur they suit some folks and you never know if you're in that camp unless test drive 'em. There are a good number of folks who aren't fond of MA's for much the same reason as you mentioned with Jamo's...minus the boom. I like them and always have but that may be because I've always listened to them on complimentary gear..who knows. Hey how about Rega R5's, I know at least 2 people who have pairs for sale...one in Piano black and the other in Cherry..lol! |
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Bronze Member Username: Just_wax_itMontreal, Quebec Post Number: 34 Registered: Jun-09 | I havent heard Jamos newest range but all the previous Jamos irrespective of their price range havent been able to convince me except D830 (Concert 8) which I have to admit is one terrific standmount. |
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Bronze Member Username: Just_wax_itMontreal, Quebec Post Number: 35 Registered: Jun-09 | "Hey how about Rega R5's, I know at least 2 people who have pairs for sale...one in Piano black and the other in Cherry..lol" :D |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 265 Registered: Aug-04 | Nick K, you are absolutely right. These kind of comparisons are difficult and pretty much pointless; unless they are auditioned side-by-side (same room, same components). But that's dificult to pull off in the real world. But at least I did listen to the MA R6 and have hands-on/ears-on experience with them. Which is still more than a never having heard them at all and making a sweeping generalizational comment on them. Placement, room acoustics and power supply are everything in this hobby. I know if the Jamo speakers aren't fiddled with a little and their placement adjustedl; one will not get the best out of them. Especially the bass, because they do require a good 15-23 inches from the backwall, for the best bass response. 12 inches will still get you some nice tightness...but not the best. Frank Abela: I don't know what models you heard. Were they the C60 and C80 Series? I have literally no experience with older Jamo models. Only the C60 and C80 Series models I listed in my other post. Without a doubt I never have considered these C60 and C80 models as Boom....Tiss speakers. In fact, I find (and others too) they actually have a slightly polite presentation. The dynamics can really kick at times. But they do tend to lean slightly back rather than kick you in the teeth and other lower body regions. And the highs and midrange can be so delicate and sweet....if the recorded material contains it. Especially the C807 and C809 which excell at such a palpable....three dimensional presentation of instruments. Cellos and pianos simply sound so present and give me visuals of the instrument's three dimensional physical presence. They are amazing that way. Sweet, musical......and so there. Bass is outstanding in all of them. They can handle so much low bass material, all at once. On a song like India.Arie's 'Video" ...there's a heavy bass drum and a thick, heavy bass line through out the song. None of the Jamo speaker models I listed even break a sweat. While other speakers I have heard (some much more expensive) completely strain and crumble under the double, heavy bass attack of that song. Then there's "Brown Skin". You haven't heard Brown Skin, if you haven't heard it through the C807, C809 or C607  Takes you to another world. It really doesn't matter to me if someone doesn't like the Jamo speakers. We all have different tastes and preferences. I can't be bothered with that stuff. But I can't see how anyone makes sweeping comments about speakers they've never even heard. That makes no sense and is as useless as it gets. You try to tell me Jamo's don't do bass well and I know that's a downright lie or it's coming from someone who is oblivious to the C60 and C80 Series. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2649 Registered: Jun-07 | I will admit I have never heard a Jamo speaker NYTree. I am sure like all other brands of speakers they are for some and not for others. "Thats the way she goes, sometimes she goes, sometime she doesn't go. Just the way she goes" -Trailor Park Boys lol. You know what I mean. An in home audition of Jamo speakers for Bugs is in order. |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 725 Registered: May-06 | Thats quite easy. -Go to Madisound website -Order a set of Zaph Audio SR71 (with cabinets) -assemble them when they arrive (it's an easy set to assemble) -enjoy the quality of sound that would cost you a few thousand if you were to buy it with a brand name like Ludwig Duuzenshtraasen Von Pistenvoonen the 3rd (or similar gibberish) People, get real and stop paying for the name )) |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2821 Registered: Oct-04 | Madisound & Zaph Audio sound like names, perhaps they are not for profit organizations? I've got a better idea, buy any number of "name brand" on sale & closeout, take 50, 60, 70% of the MSRP, and then carefully pry-off the name badge if you find it offensive ;) |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10650 Registered: Feb-05 | I don't pay for a name...I pay for the engineering that the name hired. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2822 Registered: Oct-04 | If a company McIntosh put their name (and logo) on a night light, I'd buy it based solely on that. ...but it would have to give-off a beautiful blue glow. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 933 Registered: Jun-08 | Just was curious to take a look at the Jamo product offering. The top of the line Reference is one sweet looking open baffle - gotta see it: http://www.jamo.com/na-en/products/r-909-specifications/ Sorry to kick this thread off its tracks for a moment. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10652 Registered: Feb-05 | It's been around quite sometime and reviewed well as I remember. |
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Silver Member Username: EdisonGlendale, CA US Post Number: 909 Registered: Dec-03 | You can also buy the recommended speakers used on audiogon.com and save money for other gears... |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2972 Registered: Feb-07 | Buying used speakers is usually a pretty safe bet. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 234 Registered: Dec-06 | I tend to favour buying store demos more than used. With used you never know for certain what you'll get (although pictures and a good description should tell you a lot). With a demo you can actually see the speakers, try them out, and get the full manufacturer's warranty, plus get a good deal. You may not save quite as much with used but you should save 10-20% off of regular price. I also find some of the audio shops in my area have sales when they want to get rid of some merchandise. One store here has a sale every summer, another one I believe has a Cambridge Audio sale each year. Also, when a new model is coming out, the old model can often be had for a great price. Savings can be substantial if you look out for them. I got my amp this summer for $985, regular price is actually almost $1700 and is at that higher price at more than one store. But this particular store had a clearance sale on YBA gear, for whatever reason. My CDP was $600, regular price $1500. We are talking 40% and 60% off on brand new gear here. Despite that, used probably gives you the most bang for your buck, as long as you buy carefully. Most of the listings on Audiogon seem to be honest. I'm just starting to see the benefits of dealing locally, since I had a problem with my recently purchased Wharfedales. They got fixed, but having to pack them up, go to the shipper, ship them out, wait, go to the shipper again to pick them up...it's a hassle and costs money. Easier I figure to take the speakers and walk right into a store, then demonstrate what the problem is, all in one shot. If another one is in stock the shop in many cases would probably just hand you that one. One short trip and the issue is resolved. Many dealers also carry used gear. This is not to say buying used or new over long distances is bad, in most cases it's probably great. But I think you have to be a little more careful and be prepared for extra work if there are any problems. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2974 Registered: Feb-07 | Good post Dan. You're right - it's almost always preferable to but local, especially when you run into problems. When I recently bought my MCD-201 and ran into issues with it, I figured I was screwed since I bought it from a dealer in Arizona from Audiogon. Luckily the dealer was on the up-and-up and offered to make things right for me. (but I was out a fair bit on the shipping). But you're right, if it's the shop in your town, and things go awry, it's usually much easier to just take it back to the shop. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 940 Registered: Jun-08 | Risk averse, buy local and even better an arms length. Agree, wholeheartedly. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3797 Registered: Sep-04 | NMT, I admit I have not listened to the C60 series. I've listened to several Jamo speakers in my time (things like the Conert 8's which I disliked for their mechanical delivery) and I've not liked any of them. As you said, it comes down to what one personally prefers. Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 282 Registered: Aug-04 | Absolutely Frank. It's all personal preference and personal taste. As these hip-hop people are fond of saying....."It's all goooood" But believe me when I tell you, none of my Jamo speakers sound mechanical. All very smooth, sweet, an nice...slight dash of warmth, musical (oh so musical) and beautiful. Can't speak for the Concert 8's. never heard them. As always, gear in the the chain and room acoustics will always make a huge difference in what one hears. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 174 Registered: Aug-05 | Ascend Acoustics Sierra 1 http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0908/bestof2008.htm http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/reviews/AA_Sierra1.pdf http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-loudspeakers/bookshelf-monitor-loudspeakers/as cend-acoustics-sierra-1-monitor-loudspeakers.html http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/reviews/SSAV_AscendAcoustics.3.pdf |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3013 Registered: Feb-07 | Excellent speakers. I have the natural bamboo finish. Have you seen the new finishes on the Ascend site? |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 727 Registered: May-06 | "Madisound & Zaph Audio sound like names, perhaps they are not for profit organizations?" But of course they are making money on their kits, however, they are not trying to tell you that the speakers are made by some Von Idiotten the 8th. You get the real name of the actual manufacturer, there are no dealer networks, that need to support their payroll, there are no excessive marketing depts etc. I just ordered Madisound's RBR kit with Scan Speak Revelator series drivers and SB Acoustics (Scan Speak's sister company) tweets. After I get the cabinets and all the pair will cost me about $900 and no Jamo hujJamo, Monitor Audio or Warfwhatever etc will stand even near those performance levels. Scan Speak drivers are used by high end brands that sell their speakers for tens of thousands of dollars. Scan Speaks are even used in Alpine F1 flagship components and Genesis car audio flagship components (that run at about 5000 British Pounds for a pair). The point is - the more money you are willing to spend the more it is worth it to look in the DIY direction. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10717 Registered: Feb-05 | ScanSpeak drivers are used by many high end speaker manufacturers who design and engineer speaker cabinets, crossovers and have drivers custom made (to their specs) by the great scandinavian speaker manufacturers. Are you from Car Audio Maris? |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 728 Registered: May-06 | Mr. Quinn You just made made point with your Ascend Acoustics Sierra 1 I am loving this bull*hit from Ascend Acoustics: "Over 4 ½ years in development, the Sierra-1 is the culmination of thousands of man-hours of research and the collaboration of various global partnerships all brought together for a single goal, development of what we consider to be one of the highest performance loudspeakers ever offered." What a load of crap. What is it that they were developing??? They surely did not develop those drivers. Does a x-over network take 4.5 years to develop? They really have to tell you about all those 1000's of man hours so you feel better about the product, added value, so to speak. LMFAO Your lovely Sierra's are using Seas Tweeter: SEAS Prestige 29TFF/W (H1318) Fabric Dome http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_324&products_id=1 591 And the woofer is to me an unknown manufacturer, but it is most likely in the same price range as those Seas tweets. Why not instead get the pair that I suggested earlier that also uses a Seas tweet (actually a more popular one) in the same price range and a 7" longthrow Seas woofer (instead of the 5.25" Sierra thing) http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35_425&products_id=8306 A better performance that your Sierra thing and only $640 plus shipping. |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 729 Registered: May-06 | "Are you from Car Audio Maris?" Art, what do you mean? I did take up auto sound fairly seriously when I was living in Ohio. |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 730 Registered: May-06 | "ScanSpeak drivers are used by many high end speaker manufacturers who design and engineer speaker cabinets, crossovers and have drivers custom made (to their specs) by the great scandinavian speaker manufacturers." No, no and no. That Seas tweeter was not specifically designed for Sierra speakers. It's simply a driver, that can be implemented in different system designs and it is not made to some other brand's specs. And by the way, the enclosure and x-over design is no rocket science, I study Applied Physics and Instrumentation. With proper design software and testing equipment (like good old Zaph) it's all doable in a relatively short period of time. The main engineering and design work is required in the actual driver development. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2922 Registered: Oct-04 | "...however, they are not trying to tell you that the speakers are made by some Von Idiotten the 8th. You get the real name of the actual manufacturer, there are no dealer networks, that need to support their payroll, there are no excessive marketing depts etc." I don't know what the heck you mean? Look, I'm glad you like to DIY, and I have nothing against Madisound or Zaph Audio, but you sound like you have something against those of us that would prefer not to build their own gear. Feel free to start a DIY Speaker thread, or continue to post here, I don't care, but don't expect everyone to agree with you as you go about berating the suggestions of other contributors. |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 731 Registered: May-06 | "Look, I'm glad you like to DIY, and I have nothing against Madisound or Zaph Audio, but you sound like you have something against those of us that would prefer not to build their own gear." I have absolutely nothing against you or the guys that like to buy product of the shelf. All I am saying is - if a guy is trying to get the best he can get for a $1000 then why not tell him what he really can get for that money. I ordered the Scan Speak RBR set from Madisound and the POINT IS - with a few hours of work I will save a couple of thousand (yes really) dollars by doing it the DIY way. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2923 Registered: Oct-04 | " ordered the Scan Speak RBR set from Madisound and the POINT IS - with a few hours of work I will save a couple of thousand (yes really) dollars by doing it the DIY way." In your opinion, I'm glad for you, be sure to post a review when they're up & running. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13581 Registered: Dec-04 | I cannot wait to hear what countless minutes on a cabinet design site, with thiele/small values, a few aerovolumeter readings, some resonant static #'s, from a non existing test bench and some loose fluff in a cabinet will do. If it were that easy, somebody would have done it already. Oh wait, lots do! Maris, I wish you well, I really do. The speakers that are revered and held in the highest regard sometimes used rather pedestrian drivers, but in various configurations, with differing baffles and some step baffles as well. Slapup a box! When the 850 Holley double pumper doesn't work on your straight 6, and you wonder why, just ask. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10719 Registered: Feb-05 | Maris, I wasn't talking about Ascend Speakers (or any brand specifically). You are debating yourself. Good lord. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3074 Registered: Feb-07 | Why the hate on for Ascends Maris? You have an axe to grind? |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 732 Registered: May-06 | "I cannot wait to hear what countless minutes on a cabinet design site, with thiele/small values, a few aerovolumeter readings, some resonant static #'s, from a non existing test bench and some loose fluff in a cabinet will do." LOL, the "cooler" the terminology the better? The cabinet design has already been done by Clearwave Loudspeaker Design. FYI, that's the whole point of buying a K-I-T, all your cabinet specs are given for that particular design. And by the way, this will be my second DIY kit, the first one was also from Madisound and it was a cheaper one with Vifa drivers, I'm loving it, it's moving upstairs to the study room So, dear Nuck, before you bark at my suggestions, I recommend, you actually go and check them out online so you know what it is you are talking about. Tests, measurements and design work has already been done. So if you are capable of following some simple instructions then you too can save a lot of money "Why the hate on for Ascends Maris? You have an axe to grind?" OMG, no axe to grind, I don't hate them at all, I'm simply being realistic and seeing the facts for what they are. So if you don't think it's a bit funny that they spent 4.5 years developing a box and a x-over (so they say) then tough. It's all about marketing and not so much about actual work in development. Art, I was talking about Ascends simply because Quinn (above) recommended them. I never even heard of them before, I just went on their website and checked them out. Questions?} |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 733 Registered: May-06 | Evaluating speakers has nothing in common with tasting wine. Practically all speaker output details from 2nd level distortion to floor bounce can be objectively evaluated with instruments. So next time you hear some "golden ear" tell you about "airy this" and "sparkly that" you can be confident that the science of physics stands above some "golden ear" mammal's subjective opinion |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3075 Registered: Feb-07 | "I never even heard of them before, I just went on their website and checked them out. Questions?" Yes. Question. So you're ready to write off a speaker you've never listened to? That diminishes your credibility just a bit. I actually own the Sierras. Am I fanboy? No, I'm aware of their limitations, but they're pretty darned good speakers. If you revisit the title of the thread "Best speakers 1000 can buy...", they fall within that criteria. Lets save our criticisms for speakers we've actually listened to, shall we? |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 734 Registered: May-06 | "Yes. Question. So you're ready to write off a speaker you've never listened to? That diminishes your credibility just a bit." Hold on a minute, you totally misunderstood me. I AM NO WRITING OFF THE SPEAKER. It's a great speaker, I'm sure. All I am saying is - YOU CAN GET A BETTER ONE FOR LESS MONEY OUT OF POCKET. Yes, they are darn good speakers, but dude, my Scan Speak RBR set will blow your Sierras out of the water by all means. Can you get it? The point is about - WHAT CAN I GET FOR X AMOUNT OF MONEY. Read and understand what I am saying before you bark |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 735 Registered: May-06 | "Lets save our criticisms for speakers we've actually listened to, shall we?" Read I suggested a Seas system from Madisound (SR 71) just because your beloved Sierras are using Seas Prestige series tweets with a 5.25 woofer, so I used it as a benchmark for my suggestion. Read |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3077 Registered: Feb-07 | With all respect, you're the one barking. I'm ain't all-CAPS'in. Have a great Saturday night. |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 736 Registered: May-06 | Sorry, but when people don't want to read and understand yet want to be critical of my suggestions then that's what it comes down to. Has anyone got a suggestion in regards to a speaker set under a $1000 that in distortion levels, accuracy, driver reliability and output range will beat the Madisound's SS RBR set? No. So David, you can keep thinking about who is barking and who is not, but the point has been made |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3080 Registered: Feb-07 | I've never heard the Madisounds, so I can't comment. You win. Congrats. |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 737 Registered: May-06 | There is this thing called Google, it can be helpful at times |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2924 Registered: Oct-04 | "...but dude, my Scan Speak RBR set will blow your Sierras out of the water by all means." And you would know this how? Didn't you just order these? Have they even been shipped? I'm glad you're excited about your new purchase, but JEEZ! calm down and wait till you actually listen to them before you go picking fights. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3081 Registered: Feb-07 | Googleing something and reading reviews and specs is not the same as owning and listening. Thanks for the tip though. I'll check out this Google thing you speak of. |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 738 Registered: May-06 | You don't need to listen to Scan Speak Revelator series drivers (used in the RBR kit) to know that they are some of the very best midrange drivers available in the world right now. A little bit of Google research will confirm that. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2925 Registered: Oct-04 | I'd like to tell you about the best Italian restaurant in NYC, I read all about it in the Zagat guide, I've even seen it on the The Food Network, have I eaten there? No, but it will crush any Italian restaurant you've eaten at, they use the best imported tomatoes, finest olive oil, and hand select cheeses...or so I read. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2926 Registered: Oct-04 | Who is this "Google" you keep referring to? Bring him to me at once, I must meet him. |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 739 Registered: May-06 | "I'd like to tell you about the best Italian restaurant in NYC, I read all about it in the Zagat guide, I've even seen it on the The Food Network, have I eaten there? No, but it will crush any Italian restaurant you've eaten at, they use the best imported tomatoes, finest olive oil, and hand select cheeses...or so I read." See, again, you didn't read. Speakers are not like food or wine. Practically everything that has to do with speaker performance can be objectively measured and determined and test results like that are available. If that is not enough then when you have speakers that cost tens of thousands of dollars utilizing the Scan Speak Revelator drivers then you can be sure that there is something pretty good about Scan Speak products |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13585 Registered: Dec-04 | Is that why we all have the same speakers now? Because some printout says it fits? Huh. Scan speak products have been used in some very well liked speakers, and they have one some nice work with Dynaudio, who sell more raw drivers than anybody. Thay have also beed discounted in numerous designs in favor of different drivers, you just don't read it on the interweb. Shut up and listen for gawds sakes. You are esposing the virtues of something that you have not built yet, let alone listened to. These are home speakers, not car parts. These will be placeable, which will make them sound like bile or be champs, or likely something in between, and different within inches. If you want to play with the homies, you had best listen to a lot of music before tossing around caps and superlitives, cause it won't float. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2928 Registered: Oct-04 | "Practically everything..." |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10727 Registered: Feb-05 | Actually everything about food and wine can be objectively measured. Ofcourse those measurements will have nothing to do with whether you like the taste just as speaker measurements will have little to do with whether you or I like the sound. You're running around in circles Maris. Pick up your Lego's and go home. |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 740 Registered: May-06 | "Actually everything about food and wine can be objectively measured. Ofcourse those measurements will have nothing to do with whether you like the taste just as speaker measurements will have little to do with whether you or I like the sound." Art, I am not trying to like or not like the sound, I am not trying to hit that sweetspot etc. All that a speaker has to do it reproduce the recording as accurately as possible, now, if I like it or not is irrelevant. All those "golden ear" terms like airy this and whatever are trying to subjectively describe nothing more than soundwaves. Trust me, they are not hearing the missing Higgs particle or anything of that sort, all it is is sound. And in regards to how accurate or distorted that sound is - it can be detected, tested, measured and determined. There is nothing mysterious, the science of sound is well understood and studied. There are still people that believe that LP's sound "better" than CD's, however, science shows the opposite. LOL, there are still people that believe in some god as well |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 741 Registered: May-06 | "Actually everything about food and wine can be objectively measured." However, what you are trying to achieve with food is highly ambiguous and subjective. With speakers, on the other hand, it is clear cut as far as the objective goes. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2515 Registered: Nov-05 | Maris, there is only one measurement for speakers that you can rely on. Forget specs and reviews. It's your ears - don't you understand. It's not rocket science - it's kindergarten level stuff. If it sounds good to you and satisfies your listening levels then what else matters? If a speaker has great specs does that automatically translate into the greatest sound for your ears? You don't think speaker preferences are subjective? Get real man! Why do think there are thousands of speakers all with different specs and different people buying them all - it's because they suit their ears. Blow your stuff up some else's pipes man, we've heard all this shite before. |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 742 Registered: May-06 | "If it sounds good to you and satisfies your listening levels then what else matters?" My goal is to get as close to the recording as possible, that's all. "You don't think speaker preferences are subjective? Get real man!" Of course, speaker preferences are subjective, but speaker performance isn't. "Why do think there are thousands of speakers all with different specs and different people buying them all - it's because they suit their ears." Well, that's quite simple, because there is no perfect speaker (perfect transducer by definition) so the design trade-offs are made in any driver design. To improve one thing you have to sacrifice on another front, there is no perfect driver. So the challenge is to work around a driver's week points while developing a system design where that driver will be implemented. The driver manufacturing cost is also an important variable, so the trade-offs are left and right. "Blow your stuff up some else's pipes man, we've heard all this shite before." It's not shite, it's science. |
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Silver Member Username: JohammbassIRL Post Number: 743 Registered: May-06 | "If a speaker has great specs does that automatically translate into the greatest sound for your ears?" I think you are confusing 2 different things. I'm not talking about Qms, Qes, Qts and so on driver specs. I'm talking about speakers measurable output and how that output compares with it's input (a CD) in terms of accuracy, distortion etc. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10728 Registered: Feb-05 | Round and round you go Maris. I use my best measuring device on speakers...my ears. Only that measuring tool gives me the answers to the most important questions. You can measure for objective criteria but that will only go so far in determining whether a speaker sounds good, which in the end is the only thing I care about. "all it is is sound", says all we need to know about you. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13587 Registered: Dec-04 | And a Mozart penned piece is simply notes on a page. Very quantifiable and understood in any language. No debating the notes, nothing to describe, as the facts are all there. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13943 Registered: May-04 | .  . |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3484 Registered: May-05 | "And a Mozart penned piece is simply notes on a page. Very quantifiable and understood in any language. No debating the notes, nothing to describe, as the facts are all there." Same goes for the Bible, Torah, Koran, and any other religious book that I don't know the name of. All written in black and white, easy to follow, clear as day. No debate nor study necessary. |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 512 Registered: Oct-07 | let me take a shot at this? I looked at the original Maris post. So you like DIY and think you save much against big names, which you abhor. rite so far? Well, have fun. The DIY crowd is alive and well, using premade stuff and experimenting with x-over and cabinet design as if that was it. Why don't you wind your own voice coils, fabricate your own cones, measure and spec everything yourself? Make your own caps, while you are at it. Measure your heart out! Maybe 20 large of test equipment including several DVMs.....a couple scopes, signal generators, calibrated microphones, computers and very specialized software. Than another 20 large on associated playback electronics. Amps, preamps, and several good CD / SACD / DVAudio players with several sets of interconnects. Make that 40 large, to start. Now you need a place to listen which will really put a dent in the bill. Room analysis software and massive room treatments. Add another 10 large. Than the Divorce, if you could even find a woman to put up with your being even more obsessive / compulsive than me. I use 20 bars of soap a day and must wash my hands everytime I use a strange keyboard or door knob. Final bill to save a couple hundred bucks on your DIY project? Probably in the 80,000$ range, not counting spousal support forever, 'cause she'll never get married again. Your wrong about another thing. Speaker performance measurements ARE subjective. Do you fall into the Anachoic or live room school? Do you believe nearfield or open room measurements? another argument on the way. OH! The guys that like full-range drivers with current source amps sure agree with low sensitivity panel guys like me. It is said that Figures don't lie, but liars figure. Some marketing clone is always trying to find the unique selling position and back it with NUMBERS! Hi end audio is about midway between a religion for some and a science for others. The most successful people in this industry are what are called ARTISTS. They successfully combine the ART and SCIENCE of this 'hobby'. I personally don't hear a difference with installed fuses, let alone which way they are installed. Some claim to. Nope, they won't submit to 'the test' and why should they? Have fun. I'm still trying to figure out how somebody can be so wrong in comparing food/wine with sound. The fact that there are SO MANY speakers at SO MANY price points shouts to the lack of consensus as to what a speaker 'should sound like'. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13946 Registered: May-04 | . "Consider a DIY speaker system if you want a high end speaker without paying for a company's marketing and overhead expenses. If you're handy with woodworking, you can save even more." http://www.zaphaudio.com/SR71.html I think you guys are being a bit hard on Maris. I also think Maris is being a PITA. "So you like DIY and think you save much against big names, which you abhor. rite so far?" I can't find where Maris says he abhors "big name" speakers. From what I see he has no issues with big names, he!!, he's buying from Madisound which is one of the biggest names in DIY. I take Maris' point to be he doesn't want to pay for the marketing costs of a Monitor Audio, Jamo, etc. You have to admit he has a point when he says buying through a distributorship with dozens or even hundreds of dealers set up to allow in store auditions of various speakers side by side and at your leisure is not cheap. If it were, there would still be a heck of a lot more brick and mortar dealerships around for auditions. If Maris wants to buy a speaker without listening to the system beforehand, that's his business, right? If Maris really believes he can figure out what he wants by reading about it, that is his business, correct? Click on that link to the description of the Zaph kit, it looks to be rather nicely done - if you believe the figures ( and there's no reason not to). All the right things are said in the blurb for a more or less specific sound that many would consider to be, in all likelihood, a not too bad speaker. I bet if someone posted the picture of that speaker on the forum a half dozen of you would say, "Nice speaker". Maris's speaker might not be your ideal but that's why there are lots of speaker companies around - some of them just happen to be screw it together DIY kits. If you were convinced you could have pretty much the same product for 30-40% less, would you pass up that deal? Like all of this stuff, it's all about the convincing more than the listening. I worked with a guy who convinced almost everyone he talked to that Klipsch Cornballs were the best speaker ever and that a cheap Yamaha receiver was good enough for him so whay should they want anything better. Admit it or not, guys, it's the convincing that you buy. Whether this speaker of Maris' will "blow away" anything in a double the price range race is a matter of opinion and that's where I part ways with Maris and consider him to be severely boorish. He is imposing his own priorities on others and that's not how the game of audio is played IMO. But he's certainly not the first person I've come across who is convinced measurements are all you need and measurements don't lie. I try not to associate with those people if I can help it. "The Madisound Kit uses a Clarity SA cap for the primary on the tweeter and Bennic Poly for everything else. The SA cap is not the cheapest, but not nearly as ridiculously expensive as a Mundorf or Hovland. I maintain my perspective that high cost components do not perform much better (if at all) than lower cost components." This is where the numbers-tell-all guys leave me cold, the fast held belief that cheap can perform as well or better than more costly if they measure the same. However, not surprisingly, there's quite a bit of latitude in the world of DIY and plenty of builders who feel measurements tell them all they need to know but they still buy more expensive parts just to CYA. DIY covers a lot of territory and Maris just represents one part of the whole. The art and opinion of picking just which iron core inductor to use for which filter type is something to behold on the DIY forums. It seems like Maris' initial point regarding the cost of DIY vs manufactured system has been lost on both sides. I don't see Maris as the type who would be interested in rolling his own caps or building his own anechoic chamber. He's buying a kit and screwing the parts together from what I see. He's not a designer, he's a screw-er together-er. A screw-er together-er doesn't need anything more than a screwdriver and a soldering iron, basic shade tree mechanic stuff. Maris is paying someone a profit - several someones it appears - so he's not against profit. He's just cutting out the middleman costs of most commercial speaker companies that sell in this price range. Any of you guys ever do that by buying something from an on line distributor? Save a little here and a little there. I suspect he's talking a bit out of his rear end when he says such and such a speaker hasn't had a particular driver built for them. Some manufacturuers have the clout to have drivers modified to their spec though the driver still carries the basic model number of the off the shelf unit. And some (lots of) manufacturers just use off the shelf parts when it comes to drivers. Some buy off the shelf parts and modify what they use to meet their ideas of how the driver should perform once the driver is in their shop. Few in this price range can have all of their drivers built in house or strictly to their spec so a lot of similar parts get used in a lot of speakers. The trick is for a designer to get the sound they desire out of those similar parts. As we've discussed before some manufacturers buy case lots of drivers and components and then cull out all but the best for their products to ensure proper system matching. Hardly any manufacturer in this price range builds their own cabinets so the cabinet for your PSB's might come from the same shop that builds Madisound's enclosures. It could even be near the same box. Some manufacturers do this or that in the below $1k price so Maris might want to amend his statements somewhat. Absolutes are so difficult to prove. The DIY market is thriving and has been for as long as audio has been a hobby. I was involved in this hobby when kits were the most popular way to go about assembling a decent system for less than dealer pricing. Maybe some of you don't remember that even McIntosh sold a few kits for a few years way back when. PS Audio started out as a DIY kit company. The most popular amplifier ever is still the Dyna ST70 which sold almost as many kits as factory assembled amplifiers. And, believe me, a kit speaker is pretty easy to assemble and have a working model compared to building an amplifier kit. If you weren't around the forum a few years ago we all liked Tim Forman's products and welcomed his advice. Tim did nothing more than design with off the shelf parts. Maris isn't even doing that much, he's just buying a kit that someone else has designed which means he doesn't need to roll his caps or construct an anechoic chamber. Like Tim there are some pretty slick designers in the DIY world and they aren't interested in the hassle of starting up a speaker company with nationwide dealers. Someone else has done the hard work for Maris and he's just screwing parts together. Any of you ever do a job yourself to save the labor costs? Now you guys must realize it takes less money to go about what Maris is buying than it does to establish a company with nationwide or even worldwide distribution and marketing. Heck, with the design software and cheap measuring tools available today you could run the sort of company a lot of DIY'ers favor out of your garage, try that with Paradigm! My biggest problem with DIY is what you get and what you don't get. You seldom get personal comparisons of products before you buy - which I find to be less than ideal for most buyers and certainly for someone who has to ask what the best speaker is. But that sort of distriubtion and marketing costs money and that's part of what you pay for when you buy a Monitor Audio. And, if somebody says they just bought a pair of Rega speakers, we all chime in, "Good job!" Not so with Zaphs. So the prestige is something you pay for that only comes with DIY within the DIY community. If you want it, you gots to pay for it. Anybody ever slap a set of headers on your engine and think you really had something cool? Same thing here. With DIY more often than not you are buying a pig in a poke and reading comments from the designer or somebody else who built the speaker doesn't do you much good IMO. I seldom see reviews of "look what I built" that don't say the product is just wonderful - the same as everyone liking what they bought even if someone else thinks it should be left in the trash. I doubt Maris would have purchased a kit that didn't suit his ideas for the "perfect" kit. His ideas just aren't the same as your ideas from what I can see. Once he screwed it together he was going to like it, you can bet on that. The other thing you don't get with DIY is very good resale which may not matter to some people. Put a Spendor and a Zaph on line and guess which one will sell faster and for more of its original cost. Sometimes that's not important to the dedicated DIY'er because they're going to rip apart whatever they build and try to make something else out of the parts. Whatever floats your boat, eh? How many of us have a closet full of stuff we aren't using right now? If you are convinced you can pick a speaker by reading about it, then you have to admit not going through all the speaker manufacturer's additional costs will save you some money. I would not however, suggest this as the best speaker for anyone and everyone let alone someone who is not able to decipher the measurements and verbage that go along with something like this Zaph kit. "A lot of work was put into simplifying the crossover without compromising the system audibly. Some of the details that were sweated over: Did I need to flatten out the woofer breakup, even though it was only a 2dB bump, 18 dB down? Did I need to resolve the on axis diffraction bump at 4 kHz in the tweeter's response? Did I need to resolve the 27TDFC's top octave rise, that seemed to get a little worse after the rest of the crossover was in place? You can look at the schematic and see that the answers are No, No and Yes. I could only give these answers after quite a bit of listening." http://www.zaphaudio.com/SR71.html But, honestly, guys, with all the horse trading that goes on over the internet, gear coming and going through everybody's systems on a frequent basis, how many of you have purchased something - or several somethings - from an advertisement or a write up without ever hearing the gear before it got hooked into your system. And then, because you'd spent the money and you'd read the reviews that said it was great and you don't have something else for comparsion, you thought it sounded wonderful too. Seems to me that's how a lot of stuff gets bought and sold nowdays. It's a goofy way to go about this hobby IMO but I sure see it happening a lot. So, how about only those who have never purchased any piece of gear without an in store or comparison audition can be the ones to criticize Maris' rudeness? How about only those who have always deliberated long and hard with multiple listening sessions being the ones who tell Maris, "I use my best measuring device on speakers...my ears." As far as I can remember the person who posted that has run through more equipment than most of the rest of us put together - and all of it is the best he's ever had, until the next piece arrives. You can correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember quite a bit of that gear being purchased without an audition. Speakers? maybe not, but that misses the point. How about we keep the level of hypocrisy on both sides to a minimum, guys? If you bought it based on something other than a long, hard audition, you've done exactly what Maris has done. And I bet you looked at a spec sheet to see what the frequency response or THD or something-something was before you made the decision. What you read convinced you without an audition and convincing is what its all about. Maris is not doing himself any favors by his arguments but you guys are getting yourself all worked up over something you probably have done yourself. Right? Who out there has never bought a cable, component or speaker without an audition? OK, that's the person who can have at it with Maris. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13947 Registered: May-04 | . How's it look? http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8306 A basic two way in a ported box, eh? Looks like a thousand others to me. Maris is right that there are more than a few commercially available speakers out there that use the same drivers. The way I read this you guys are mostly hacked off that someone is suggesting something you've never heard of could be as good as your favorite speakers from Rega, Monitor Audio, Jamo, etc. How do you know if you've never heard the Zaph? You're being pushed outside your comfort zone and you don't like it. But Rantz buys some Xindac amplifiers and you all gush. Like you all know the sound of a Xindac amplifier. One thousand dollars doesn't get you an attack on the SOTA. It just has to be as good or no worse than the hundreds of others out there. If it appeals to someone, we usually say that's all that's required, right? And, if you saved a few hundred on it, that's even better. Like I said, Maris is a PITA but I don't get you guys. . |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2932 Registered: Oct-04 | "People, get real and stop paying for the name" It's a bit condecending to assume those of us here are akin to trendzoids chasing after designer labels. I'm sure the Madisound Kit will be a fine sounding speaker if & when it is assembled properly, perhaps the best of the lot, who knows, but to put the cart before the horse to the degree that Maris has been the crux of this matter. |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 513 Registered: Oct-07 | What originally got me PO'd was the contention that you could tell sound thru measurements. Even I know that doesnt' work. Yes, you can find many systems sharing drivers, but the associated works is what counts. Give me a nice pair of matched drivers from a reputable manuf. and I'm sure I could make a mediocre speaker system, if it worked at all. If I were to go the 'kit' route and become a screwdriver guy, I'd consider something like this:: http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=210&Itemid=202 which is a nice 2-way design of low complication and should provide good sound in the appropriate sized room w/suitable electronics. The documentation is reasonable and you may even be able to buy the enclosures ala carte from Madisound or equiv. My neighbor could cobble them together in a weekend and they'd be rock solid. Could a DIY be as good as some commercial stuff? without a doubt, but the original suggestion that you could tell by the numbers and that by implication systems using the same drivers sound basically alike, is a little off. Do all Wolfson DAC equipped CD players sound alike? didn't think so. I'm certainly willing to go the cost of R/D by a known concern who have the resources to try a bunch of changes and market the 'best' of 'em. Resale? I'm not over concerned. This is a personal bias, but my system changes very slowly. After the last round of rebuild/re-gear, I won't change anything for a decade or more. I will be junking out DTV soon, but that is an ongoing expense I am seeking to minimize. Harsh? yes, a little, but I got off the boat when somebody drug Italian Food into the discussion. I think a DIY corner would be a good idea. What, after all, is the REAL difference between a tweak and DIY? not much. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2933 Registered: Oct-04 | The Italian food jab was over the top? I was probably hungry. |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 515 Registered: Oct-07 | Please, Chrisopher, is NOTHING sacred? The meatball sub is perhaps the pinnicle of handheld lunch cuisine! Slam my panels. Mock my CD player choice. Revile me for my choice of cables. Pass the Garlic Bread, please. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10736 Registered: Feb-05 | I was never PO'd. His DIY thing didn't bother me a bit. Different strokes and all that good stuff. I just didn't understand his Mauimusicman approach(Green Mountain Audio, ya'll remember, right) that his way is the only way. Other than that I'd look forward to seeing his speakers. I'm going to an audio show coming up next month which promises to have some DIY speaker kits. Should be fun. |
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Bronze Member Username: DaltreyPost Number: 13 Registered: Aug-09 | I agree DIY is the best value.You don't have to be a rocket scientist to put together some of these kits that have already been designed and tested for you by people with extensive audio backgrounds.The Ellis Audio 1801B would be a bit more than $1000 and it would completely blow out of the water any of the above mentioned Rega's,MA's or PSB's that are less or = $1000. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyFort Hamilton, NY United States Post Number: 2934 Registered: Oct-04 | "blow out of the water any of the above mentioned..." No IMHO, or even IMO? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3488 Registered: May-05 | "So, how about only those who have never purchased any piece of gear without an in store or comparison audition can be the ones to criticize Maris' rudeness?" As luck would have it, I guess I'm qualified to criticize then. No one argued DIY nor the speakers either joker mentioned. Everyone argued their bashing everything else, especially stuff they haven't heard. Your boy Maris said a speaker that he bought and hadn't recieved yet sounds better than anything we have. That's the problem. You gonna defend Rod Porter too? Complementing MR's Xindak gear's looks has nothing to do with this. A brochure and/or other advertising and reviews will get me in the door to hear something. Nothing more than that. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3489 Registered: May-05 | Also, I'm pretty sure just about every regular here auditions everything for their main system before buying. A few guys may make an impulse purchase that's not a lot of money to try something new out and have fun with it or for a secondary type system. If they're buying stuff unheard for a primary system, its either second hand and can be sold at little to no loss, or it has a no loss return policy. Again, I'm talking about the regulars, not the people who come here ask only ask what to buy. TW is the exception, not the rule. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2520 Registered: Nov-05 | Well, if your'e talking about me again Vigne, yep, I've bought one integrated amp, a pair of power amps and a couple of cables that I didn't audition. That's all. Shoot me! I had my reasons - they were bought at a price I could resell them for (and at a profit if need be) if I found they weren't suitable. I certainly can't afford to fly around our country auditioning because there is very little available locally. My gripe was this guy telling us how great a product is by reading specs - nothing more, nothing less. Whether I buy something before auditioning is not relevant, my ears decide if I keep it or not. There is no doubt about you JV. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13593 Registered: Dec-04 | I bought a Mac amp, used, on word of mouth, brand recognition, and a 1hr demo at home, LOL! I didn't read the specsheet, just the build list. Again, Maris came off (and still does) as a moron for espousing the virtues of speakers that he has never heard, have not been assembled yet, in fact have not darkened his door from UPS. Madisound have built a big business in DIY, and DIYaudio.com like some of their stuff. But why the hell would you bust in newby and open with that stuff if nothing but a troll?!? Troll, troll troll. I bet Maris has a blankey, or socks stapled up in the cabs before even running them in. This is as much a noob troll issue as a speaker one, and Maris is both for me. The guy may be a speaker building ferkin genius, for all I know, but the attitude is hardly refreshing. That is where my comments lie. Again, pedestrian or widely available drivers are fine to use, and are used regularly. However, I would be remiss if I fail to point out that speaker manufacturers of repute do in house testing and verification/matching of drivers (let alone crossover componants) and usually test the system against some known standard. If Maris gets a half crapped out tweeter, is the design to blame? The room? The scanspeak? Will he, or we, ever know? There is more to putting a hard earned name and reputation on a wooden box than guts, it takes brains, too... |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 677 Registered: Jul-07 | Maris is just out to stir the pot. He doesn't even believe most of what he typed. His comments are eerily similar to some prior visitors. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3083 Registered: Feb-07 | My thoughts exactly Chris. |
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