Any thoughts or feedback anyone's got on the JBL LS80?
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Silver Member Username: Shane24TorontoCanada Post Number: 228 Registered: Mar-07 | Hi, I got a Nad C272+C162 preamp, I wanted to get a a new pair of floor stands was just wondering if the Jbl ls80 would be a good match for my amp. Listen to mostly Heavy rock & trance.Also was thinking about the B&W dm604's, I have heard them n they sound amazing. Your input would be much appreciated.. thx... |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3495 Registered: May-05 | Depends on what you like. Some people love JBLs, some don't. Have you heard them? If you think the B&Ws sound amazing, why not buy them? The best thing you can do is hear a bunch of different speakers and make an informed decision. All you'll get here is opinions. An for what its worth, most here don't like the JBLs in comparison to other speakers for equal money. That doesn't mean you won't |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13958 Registered: May-04 | . Both speakers are spec'd at 90dB sensitivity which is above average. Either speaker will play relatively loud without much power. The JBL is 6 Ohms "nomimal" and the B&W, while at 8 Ohms nominal, is said to have a dip to 3 Ohms minimum. The NAD is unlikely to think much of the B&W. If I were you, I would do some research and find out the lowest impedance point of the JBL. If it stays at no less than 6 Ohms through the bass to midrange, that is the better electrical match for the amplifier. If it also dips below 6 Ohms in the bass, then I would say pass on both speakers and shop for something more amplifier friendly. If you just can't live without either, the JBL's horns will have dynamics the B&W can't match. Horn loaded drivers are a trade off of virtues and drawbacks. Listen long and hard in the shop with familiar music at typical levels before plunking down cash for the LS80's. . |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 298 Registered: Dec-06 | Jan, I would have thought that the NAD is a pretty powerful pre amp/power amp combo and could handle a speaker like the B&W, even with the impendence dip (150w continuous power I believe is the figure). How much power would one need to invest in in order to power a speaker like the 604? I've very casually looked at impedence curves on websites like Stereophile and I seem to be under the impression that the vast majority of speakers dip to 4 Ohms or just under that in the bass region. At least it must be quite common. Are all these people with receivers and integrated amps underpowering their speakers? |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2526 Registered: Nov-05 | Shane, your NAD combo will have no trouble with the 604's at all. I've had the same pre/power combo and there's gobs of power to handle them in an average size room. But try an audition with your amps if possible. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13967 Registered: May-04 | . "Jan, I would have thought that the NAD is a pretty powerful pre amp/power amp combo and could handle a speaker like the B&W, even with the impendence dip (150w continuous power I believe is the figure). How much power would one need to invest in in order to power a speaker like the 604?" In a case such as the 604 power as measured in watts alone is not the issue. Solid state, direct coupled amplifiers such as the NAD are meant to operate into an 8 Ohm resistive load. As the reactive load impedance drops the demand for instantaneous currrent delivery increases. Since the low impedance point of the 604 is within a frequency range that will be active in most popular music, the speaker will dip in and out of that impedance demanding current range, then out to less current, in to more current and then back less current. If the power supply of the amplifier is not capable of refreshing its storage caps quickly enough or supplying the needed current on demand, the actual "power" delivery (measured in volts X amps over load impedance or what is known as Ohm's Law) will drop and sound quality will suffer. There's more to this than that simple explanation suggests but that's the easiest way to explain what is happening in this siutation. The NAD is not recognized as a high current amplifier by most considerations. High power on demand, yes, but not high current on a continuous schedule. The B&W line as a whole and the 600 series in particular are known to be difficult speakers to drive for any amplfiier. "I've very casually looked at impedence curves on websites like Stereophile and I seem to be under the impression that the vast majority of speakers dip to 4 Ohms or just under that in the bass region. At least it must be quite common. Are all these people with receivers and integrated amps underpowering their speakers?" You've made an accurate assessment of how many of the speakers sold in the modern day high end market operate. Low impedance is more than norm than the exception. However, high current amplfiiers are still somewhat odd ducks in the low to mid priced high end market. Even if an amplifier can deliver high current there is no guarantee it will deliver good sound quality compared to an amplifier with lower current but a higher pedigree overall. I can't tell you whether everyone is underpowering their speakers, as I said it is not about the watts alone. I can't tell you whether a poor match to me would be acceptable to you or anyone else, I really have to say most people aren't that good at recognizng some parts of lousy sound when they hear it. All I can tell you is the NAD and virtually any other amplifier sold today would prefer a much simpler, easier load to work into than the 604 offers. You cannot go wrong by using the simplest load you can find that you deem acceptable in sound quality. Before you stick your NAD with the B&W's I would certainly do more listening and more reading. If JA in Stereophile tells in his measurements section the speaker will require a high current amplifier, I would write off that design as unacceptable. If he says any other speaker will be a fairly easy load, I would try to give that speaker an audition. http://www.symphonysound.com/articles/tubefriendly.html Hope that helps. . |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2531 Registered: Nov-05 | Shane, all of the above may be right. I drove a pair of 602' with the NAD combo without a problem. Granted they are not 604's but they still have an impedance dip I believe down to around 3 ohms. I heard the 604's through with the same combo at relatively loud levels in a shop and heard no obvious difficulty. Again, auditioning is best and if you really like these speakers that much and you're worried about having enough power you can always get another C272 and bridge them - they are pretty cheap nowdays. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2532 Registered: Nov-05 | http://stereophile.com/integratedamps/1006nad/index5.html The above link is JA's take on the C372 - the integrated version of the C272&C162 |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10753 Registered: Feb-05 | I heard a Marantz AVR, the 7500 I believe, do a pretty good job driving the old 600 series B&W's pretty respectably. The NAD combo should have little if any problem with them. A Bryston combo may do better...with any speaker, however the NAD's are a fine amp/preamp combo. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 301 Registered: Dec-06 | Have to ask Jan after that explanation, and I don't intend to hijack someone else's thread, what would you say of the YBA YA201? I purchased this amp earlier this year, on clearance. I couldn't resist the price, and figured why buy Cambridge or NAD when the YBA costs the same? I know it has a good reputation on things like build quality, sound, and brand name. How about the ability of the YBA to deliver current into a tough to drive speaker? Thanks for the link btw, I will read it over tomorrow. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13609 Registered: Dec-04 | The yba is as lieky an example of a volyage oriented amplifier that you will find. The 350va power supply is a little small, but it is likely fortified with a cap bank for instant response. However, the caps can drain quickly, and repeated forays into the higher current requirements will saturate the power supply pretty wuickly, I should think. More speaker ohms=happier(and cooler) amp. This opinion is drawn from specs alone. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13983 Registered: May-04 | . Sorry, I don't know the YBA so no opinion on my part. I do know I'm not a fan of difficult to drive loudspeakers. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13984 Registered: May-04 | . "Shane, all of the above may be right." But you'll never know, will you, Rantz?  . |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13612 Registered: Dec-04 | Into the wayback machine, Herman. Ok Mr. Peabody! |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2535 Registered: Nov-05 | Shane, just because the pompous forum idiot doesn't like B&W speakers or other so called 'hard to drive' speakers, doesn't mean they aren't decent. There have been many well regarded reviews from respectable people in the industry on not only the 604's but many others from the 600 range. Ms Vigne (or Mr Vigne which ever the case may be, but I don't even think she/he has that figured out yet) often misleads because of numbers and not ears. There are many speakers with huge impedence dips admired the world over. Again, best if you can audition them especially with your amps. Cheers |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13999 Registered: May-04 | . "Ms Vigne (or Mr Vigne which ever the case may be, but I don't even think she/he has that figured out yet)" Little boy, do you know how proud your mother would be if she saw that? FO, Rantz, FO! Maybe someone should tell your father about you? Remember when you spent a few months on the forum as your father? Talkin' about his son - you! Tellin' everyone not to pick on his boy - you! You even tried to start your own old dogs thread but nobody would go along. That was the first time we all decided you were truly f'ing nuts! Let's see, that was after what? the second or third time you had stomped off under one name and before you came back under yet another name. How many times have you done that on this forum alone? Crazy and confused? You got a lock on it, fella. Not to mention you still wouldn't know if I was right or not. Tell you what, Rantz, go ask somebody who knows what their talkin' about to tell you just how often I've been wrong on this stuff. Let's see, who on this forum could have provided that answer? Hmmmmm ....... A little help here! Anyone?  . |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2536 Registered: Nov-05 | Waa haa - look I'm crying! Vigne, you are a dishonest, crude, belligerent hypocrite and if you think your childish retorts bother me you are sadly mistaken. You want help? I agree, you really need help very badly. You are an embarrassment to the decent people on this forum. Keep going with all you inane comments, all you are doing is impressing on everyone exactly what they already know. You are a complete fool Vigne, but some audio knowlege - sure - you have that. Guess you're just some sort of idiot savant. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14001 Registered: May-04 | . Dishonest? Prove it. Just provide a quote where I have been dishonest. You can't do it. Crude? You post what you did about my identity and you call me "crude"? Fuckyouyoufuckingsonofabitch! Belligerent? Who showed up on this thread telling people not to believe what I posted when what I posted were facts? Facts you couldn't dispute since you're ignorant of any facts about audio so you took a swipe at the person who provided those facts. That's called being a f'ing troll. Who said, "all that may be true" meaning, "don't believe Vigne 'cause I don't like Vigne"? Who said that even though they couldn't disprove any of the facts? Who stuck their nose into the other speaker thread just to insult me when no one had mentioned you or spoken to you? So why not refigure "belligerent" to take into account facts as they exist? Oh, I know! You don't have a f'ing clue what a fact is. Hypocrite? Go ahead, show me where I've been a hypocrite. I mean what I say which is more than I can say for someone who has stomped off this forum in a fit a half dozen times only to come back as if nothing ever happened. Don't point fingers and cry "hypocrite" when you have been the biggest of the bunch and you know it! Do I need help finding someone as relentlessly ignorant and hypocritical and rude as you are? Yeah, I do though that last speaker thread provided some good clues as to who you can team up with for the stupidity Olympics. I do need help doing that quite badly since there doesn't seem to be anyone more inclined to be a total @ss than you. You could have let it go that I gave factual information here but no - you had to keep at it that you wouldn't believe what I was saying because you owned the speakers and they sounded fine to you. I never said a thing about sound because I'm not so arrogant and ignorant as you are to tell anyone what they will hear and I'd rather take advice on sound from a rock than from you 'cause a rock has better ears and more intelligence than you do. All I've done here is provide facts - something you couldn't do if your life depended on it. But you won't let it go and let facts be facts. You won't let anything go because you are a child who holds grudges and you are a spiteful little child with access to grownups' computers. And that is a FACT! An embarrassment? Man, after all the things I've listed that are factually true about you and your neurosis, you have the brainfart to call me an embarassment? You are the goofiest damnedSOB on this forum. Go! Go take you meds before you morph into some other identity. If I'm an idiot savant, you, Rantz, are just an idiot. But everyone knew that a long time ago. About the first time you went away and came back as another totally different identity we knew you were a goof! When you came back as your own father, you blew the lid off scary f'ing goofy as they come! You stomped off the forum one time because of what? Because I didn't say, "I think so", when I knew what I was saying was a fact - like all the other facts I've put on this forum that you still have no idea what they mean. But you got p!ssed and because you're stupid you want everyone else to be stupid. But I'm not stupid and I do know what I'm talking about but you don't and you can't even tell a fact when you see it - or you don't want to see a fact when it's presented - so you stomped off the forum and in a week or so came back as someone else and trash talked me then too. Sound goofy? Yeah, I thought so too when you did it. Deny that, Rantz, or have the drugs finally wiped that out of your memory? Deny you've stomped off this forum multiple times and come back as other identities including as your own father. Come on, Rantz, let everyone know just how much of a f'ing goodball you really are. Deny none of that ever happened. I f'ing dare ya! Deny the time you posted a photo of Charlise Theron and told us she was your wife. JEEEEESUS-H-CHRIIIIST! Goofy has landed and it's calling itself Rantz - today. . |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2537 Registered: Nov-05 | What - now you are comparing a couple of jokes to fact - you truly are a complete idiot. If you think I'm going to waste my time looking for threads showing people where you tell them to ignore the figures and listen you are even more of an idiot. Yep, you are a dishonest hypocrite and go ahead and waste more of my time and your own - keep typing complete crap you fool, you're good at that at least. You could have let it go that I gave factual information here but no - you had to keep at it that you wouldn't believe what I was saying because you owned the speakers and they sounded fine to you. That was not disagreeing with you idiot - that was saying that while that information was most likely correct I did not believe that Shane's listening experience would suffer to any degree. You keep putting your spin on our words to suit your own trolling efforts fool. You were the one that just had to criticize me again, not the other way around. Anyway I am going to ignore you and your idiotic crap. Keep it up sport - but you'll be only wasting your time! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14003 Registered: May-04 | . Yeah, proving anything is just too much work for you, isn't it, Rantz? Quick with insults, not so fast with proof. Rantz - I've got a deal for you. I say you posted on this forum as your own father - Pa Rantz was the name you used. Right? You remember him, don't you? Do you want to admit right now that you are f'ing nuts? Or do you want to deal with being proven f'ing nuts and that you not only did what I say you did but you have had several different identities on this forum? All of them the result of you stomping off this forum and then returning with a new name - IOW, being a nut and a hypocrite and now being dishonest and a coward about this affair. Or, by admiting right now that you are nuts you also admit that you have had a h@rdon for me for the past four or five years because I have facts and I know what I'm talking about and you don't even have half a brain??? Wanna do that, Rantz? This is your chance. You better take it now. Otherwise, here's the deal; if I prove Pa Rantz existed on this forum and I was insulted by you posing as Pa Rantz, there's only one reason for that name to have appeared. Therefore, if I prove Pa Rantz posted in this forum, you leave this forum and stay gone - no coming back with yet another identity. Or, admit right now you are nuts and you have held a grudge for all these years and you are a f'ing child who is dishonorable, dishonest, belligerent, crude,a hypocrite and an idiot. One or the other, Rantz. You know what you did and you know I can prove what you did. Take your pick. Or, do nothing and be known to be all of those things and a weaselly pussee too. Or insult me again and add more fuel to all the other accusations I've made against you - you have proven how crude you are with your earlier post. You want to go ahead and tell everyone you're a coward with nothing but insults? I'll even sweeten the deal for you. If you deny any of the above and I can't prove Pa Rantz existed on this forum, I'll leave. You'll be rid of me tomorrow. Your dream come true. You'd be a hero to all the other weasels on this forum. Think about that, Rantz, you! a hero. That surely couldn't have ever happened before in your sniveling little pathetic life. What's it going to be, Rantz? This is your chance to get rid of me for good. And it's your call. But you have to choose now. Do nothing and the answers are made clear by your inaction. Maybe I shouldn't even ask since I don't expect you to be honorable or honest. Can you do that, Rantz, just this once in your life? Be honorable and honest? Not be f'ing nuts? I'm willing to put up everything I've done on this forum for this deal. You? You got nothing other than a half dozen different identities and the reputation for being a nut, so what's it matter to you? Make the deal. Say you're f'ing nuts, Rantz, and all the rest or we do the deal. If it never happened, what have you got to loose? If you weren't f'ing nuts then and you're not f'ing nuts now, what have you got to loose? And you'd have everything to gain - if I were dishonest, dishonorable, crude and hypocritical. But you know I'm not. And you know I can prove everything I say. And you can't prove anything you say about me. Whatsay, Rantz? Man? Child? Coward? Hero? Nuts? Pussee? What's your answer, pussee? . |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzI come from ... Post Number: 2538 Registered: Nov-05 | I never said I didn't post as Pa Rantz you moron - seems everyone else can understand when someone is joking - just like the film star photo - everyone else but you, because you are a complete idiot. Personally I hope you do leave the forum although I know some people would miss your incredible brilliance. However, most understand that you are also a real nasty piece of work. And now you want to play games - sorry, not interested in your childish behaviour. Say and do whatever you want Vigne if it keeps you happy. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 300 Registered: Aug-04 | Jan Vain= Major Twit Troll |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14005 Registered: May-04 | . OK, I will, you are a piece of scum that shouldn't be allowed in public. You are a nut case supreme. And by admiting you did post as Pa Rantz you also admit you are a hypocritical, dishonest whack job. Because you didn't post as Pa as a joke, you went off the tracks agin and started screaming about how I had mistreated you and how I was a horrible person and you stomped off this forum as one of your multiple personalities (What was that? the second or third time you'd left in a fit? It's so hard to remember all of your screaming fits, you know.) and came back as PA with nothing other than more insults towards me. And even when John Allen told you to aplogize for your disgusting behavior you just said, "Aplogize for what?" You've been a stain on this forum for a half dozen years and you don't even have the decency to admit what a nut job you have been and what a hom0phobic liar and b@stard you continue to be with posts like the one in this thread. And just in case anyone doubts any of this, here's the link; https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=211930#POST211930 This is just a sample of PA's writing. If you poke around the forum at that time, you'll find more of him and the threads he starts trying to woo people away from the hated Jan Vigne. When given the opportunity to be rid of me, someone you have hated and insulted and cowardly run away from for years, you don't even have the guts to take me up on the offer. Why? Well, first of all, you're a confirmed coward. Second, you knew I had you boxed in and there was nothing you could do except weasel out of the deal. That makes you a weaseling coward among all your other bad personalities. You refused to apologize for your behavior then and I suppose you will refuse to apologize for your trollishness now. But here's the bottom line, you are a worthless piece of garbage that shouldn't be allowed within shouting distance of other humans. Because all you have is insults and shouts, all you can do is warp into another personality and go berserk again. MyRantz, Pa Rantz and now M.R.? Three identities that are easy to prove. You? You got no prove of anything you throw at me. You have no proof because everything you accuse of me exists only in your heads - all six or more of them you've had since coming to this forum. You're nuts! You're a coward. Given the chance to be a hero, you run. You are a hypocrit beyond belief! You are crude beyond description. You are dishonorable and dishonest even with yourself. You are a hom0phobic b@stard. All talk and nothing else. And everyone should know that whenever you open your mouth on this forum. . |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 303 Registered: Aug-04 | A little late in the season for gnats [swat, squish, swoosh] |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14008 Registered: May-04 | . Gnats tend to congregate together, like you and Rantz. Two of a kind that hang together so no one in the group is smarter than anyone else. Neither one of you have the intelligence to gather facts and both of you are proud of your ignorance. Gosh! is it any surprise you took advantage of the situation to be a troll one more time? . |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithCanada Post Number: 2225 Registered: Feb-04 | But you'll never know, will you, Rantz? This was the first insult of the thread. |
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