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Bronze Member Username: MrmizmoPost Number: 15 Registered: Mar-09 | Hi I am in the process of trying to learn about home audio and could use some advice. I'm currently upgrading my home theater, budget wise I'm forced to buy used but the good stuff will be coming soon, hopefully. Right now I have a kenwood vr407 receiver and I believe it's 100 watts per channel. I have just purchased some infinity kappa 8.1 speakers but was told I NEED a huge amount of power to run these effectively. Is it possible to add an amp or should I be looking for a new receiver? Again budget is a concern but I do understand that you get what you pay for. Any help would be very appreciated. I added the specs for the speakers in case you need to know. Thank you in advance!!! PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS General Frequency Response 32Hz - 35kHz (+/-2dB) Crossover Frequency(ies) 500Hz, 4.5kHz Recommended Power Amplifier Range 40 - 300 watts, RMS Sensitivity 89dB (2.83 volts/1 meter) Nominal Impedance Compatible with 8 ohms Woofer 12" IMG Mid-Bass Driver 6.5" Tweeter EMIT - R Midrange Driver Polydome |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13908 Registered: May-04 | . Who told you about the need for huge amounts of power? Power is a very undefined term for most people and it's quite possible they meant you would need lots of power to play loud. The speakers are relatively high sensitivity systems and should play well with a 100 watt amplifier as far as volume goes. More than likely the suggestion of huge power referred to the impedance and phase angle of the system which is largely determined by the crossover configuration. Since you should not go about reconstructing the crossover you'll have to live with the speaker as is. This normally means the amplifier must be capable of delivering large amounts of current to the speaker load. "Watts" are made up of both voltage and currrent and most mass market receivers are better at voltage and not so good at currrent. Into a resistive speaker load on a test bench, as would be used to measure the amplifier's on paper wattage output, voltage alone still gives lots of watts. Connected to a real world loudspeaker most receivers cannot manage enough current to make the speaker perform well. I would try the Kappas with your receiver and make your own determination as to what you hear. I suspect the sound will be loud enough for most situations but might not be the best quality overall - YMMV. At lower volume levels the sound might suit your needs. It is quite possible the speaker load will cause the receiver to shut down as volume increases or bass levels rise. If there is a 8/4 Ohm switch on the back panel of the receiver, put the switch in the 4 Ohm position. Provide plenty of ventilation to the receiver - do not place it inside a cabinet and don't allow the receiver to shut down more than once or you may find yourself shopping for new gear. If you don't think the receiver and speakers mate well, I would say you really should get away from the speakers since they will then require a much more expensive amplifier and, if budgets are tight, you should be looking at some fairly easy to drive speakers that will make the most of what your receiver can deliver. If you look through some of the threads in this section, you'll find a link to an article on amplifier friendly speakers and what makes them so. Read that article and absorb what you can. The trick is largely in the impedance dips and peaks and electrical phase angle, either of which you'll find is seldom mentioned in specifications and reviews. However, if the budget is tight, it will pay you to learn about the electrical compatibility of systems and do some research before you plunk down green cash for a white elephant. . |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13424 Registered: Dec-04 | http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/loudspeaker-power-handli ng |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13909 Registered: May-04 | . I wouldn't expect power handling to be the problem with the Kappas. They are far more likely to stress the amplifier than the other way around. . |
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Bronze Member Username: MrmizmoPost Number: 16 Registered: Mar-09 | Thanks for the responses. I was told by the previous owner that these speakers need tons of wattage, but unfortunately I'm not an audiophile at all. I don't want to ruin these speakers or my receiver and I'm still unsure of what I should do. I know you have given me good advice but I'm still a little fuzzy on it. Are you suggesting that I go ahead and use them with my current setup, or should I get rid of them and just use my previous speakers? I don't wish to ruin my speakers or my receiver and obviously I'm not really understanding your advice...kinda need to dumb it down for me,sorry. So adding a power amp wouldn't do me any good right? I know I said I'm on a budget but I would get an amp if that would work for me. Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3036 Registered: Feb-07 | I think what Jan was saying was go ahead and give it a try. The Kappas, at 89 db sensitivity, and your Kenwood receiver at 100 watts (more or less) should be ok together at reasonable volumes. I had a Kenwood A/V receiver way back when and I do remember it getting quite hot, and I also shut it down once but that was only due to me being drunk and seeing how loud it would go. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13428 Registered: Dec-04 | mp, you are most likely to damage the speaker (the tweeter) if you try to drive the receiver beyond it's means. The receiver will likely survive to do mare damage later. try the setup, don't crank it up too much, and listen closely for signs of distress. Another several hundred dollar receiver will act much the same. You might want to consider trading speakers to something more sensitive yet, if you plan to use a receiver of any power rating. If you like what the Kappa's do for you, then you may consider a power amp of the same manufacture as your receiver, to maintain the sound qualities that you like. This will unload the receivers output and make like easier, but add space, componants and cabling. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13910 Registered: May-04 | . Well, I wouldn't suggest an amplifier. First, no one has bothered to ask whether you have the facilities to run a separate power amp off your receiver. You would need pre amp outputs for the front channels and, if you don't have those ouptuts, you cannot run a separate amplifier even if you buy one. Even if you could run another amplifier, you are still faced with a pretty good speaker being fed a signal from a mass market receiver through another amplifier. You are modifiying something that doesn't deserve to be modified. Normally, most of us would tell you to step out of the receiver as your first upgarde. The speakers make that less likely to be the correct route for this system. So accept that you have what you have with minimal cash outlay and work with this until you can do the system upgrade thing and do it right. Second, you probably can't afford the amplifier the Kappas require. When you are dealing with a difficult speaker to drive it is seldom a case of just buying more watts. You need to buy brute force and still have something that sounds good. Even on the used market that doesn't come cheap and IMO one of the worst things you can do when starting out is just go out and buy stuff because it's there. You pick up this and that and pretty soon you've got a moshpit of a system that has no consistency. Then you get on a forum and want to know why it all sounds like crap. And the answer you get is because you just bought stuff without thinking about how it all goes together and your best solution is to sell everything and start over. Third, the source and set up (cables, stands, etc.) is just as important as any other component in the system. Don't blow all your available cash on an amplifier to drive speakers that will work with a cheap CD player and a mass market receiver in front of them. Read the audio magazines and learn about music and about sound reproduction. This is not something males are simply born knowing. Doing this right requires some effort and some education. Learn from the people who came before you rather than duplicating their mistakes. That means knowing when to believe someone and when to just file the information away for later reference. That means don't believe someone just because they are telling you what you want to hear - which usually involves spending money without thinking, IOW, doing something stupid. Try the speakers, you can't hurt anything if you pay attention to the warnings you've been given. Make certain you use decent speaker cable and that your connections are tight and clean - no stray strands of wire that might touch at any point - use banana plugs if need be. Check that the red connector on the receiver goes to the red connector on the speaker and black to black. Position the speakers away from the walls behind and to the side of the speakers and pull them out into the room a few feet so they can breathe - you do not want these speakers shoved into a corner. Play the system at low to medium volumes and listen. The system can probably do OK at moderate volumes. This is unlikely to be a party system that cranks. If the system distorts or the receiver gets very hot, turn down the volume! If you can't get the levels you want without either of thosse two things happening, then you need different speakers and not another amplifier. The volume control is not a faucet that you open all the way. Listen for distortion, that's when you've run out of juice. If this is a simple once around volume control, then you'll have full power by the time it's at about 11-12 O'Clock - trust me, this is full power and the rest is distortion and you will blow something up. If this is a continuous dial with a numeric readout, then you'll have full power by about -20dB. Go beyond those points and you'll risk doing damage to something, then your budget goes to getting something fixed or not having anything to use as a trade. If you like the sound at moderate levels and you can live with those restrictions, then keep the speakers until you find the money to do something else. Don't do anything stupid. The Kappas were good speakers for a few years back. They are still good speakers for a beginning system but they are not the speakers I would suggest you build a system around. They will get you by and you shouldn't be getting the bug to upgrade until you have more experience with audio (go back and read "Second ... " again). Spend time listening to systems in good shops - not big box BS from Best Buy with ten other systems including car hifi blaring. Search out a decent small, independent dealer and let them guide you to a better system as your funds allow. Don't rush this - you have a system and you don't need to buy anything just because. Just listen to some music and enjoy what you have, hopefully you'll know when it is time to buy something worth owning rather than buying something just to have it. And don't do anything stupid. . |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3042 Registered: Feb-07 | "And don't do anything stupid. " You mean, like, don't get drunk and try to see how loud you system goes? lol. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13911 Registered: May-04 | . We could begin a list if you'd like. That would be about number 3. . |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3043 Registered: Feb-07 | At least I didn't make number 1. |
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Bronze Member Username: MrmizmoPost Number: 17 Registered: Mar-09 | Thanks everyone. I think I will just put these away until I have a better understanding of audio components, and use my current system. I appreciate the information and will continue reading these threads and learning. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3045 Registered: Feb-07 | It's a great resource Mike. |