I had bought a Rega Apollo from seeing all the great reviews about it.After much testing with various speakers and interconnects I decided it did not sound significantly better than the cdp I was replacing it with which was somewhat cheaper when released so I sold it.
I was uniformly unimpressed with the Rega.Previous to that purchase I was looking at a Bada or Esound or maybe even a Nad 565/545bee before I went with the Rega.Anyone have an opinion on these cdps ?I am not concerned with the build quality of the Chinese units I am really only concerned with the sound.
As to speakers don't know what I will be using with them because it's a second system and I am in the process of selling/trading speakers.
Well I don't love the player that I want to replace and I don't want to move up the line because I want to try something a little different..I didn't care for the Rega either so I guess I really was asking about the specific players I mentioned.
I know the Bada and Esound are more expensive than the Nad but I can't find much info on the new Nad cdps as to if people like them.
I'm looking for a player with lots of detail and clarity,large soundstage mainly for redbook playback.To me the Apollo was cheaply made and much overated.
The BCD-1 would seem to fit with what you currently have. If you can't swing the price tag, Rotel might fit better with your listening preferences than Rega. More analytical sounding, less organic.
Check me off for a vote on the Bryston CDP. Its an obvious choice for your current system. Your stepping up the ladder from the Apollo for sure and the synergy it would bring is obvious.
The Apollo's cheaply made and over rated? That's a new one for me. Everyone has their opinions though. You didn't mention your speakers. Maybe they're holding something back? What did the Apollo replace?
The Bryston BCD-1 or BDA-1 DAC is about as good as it gets without spending absurd money (relatively speaking of course). You know Bryston's sound and build quality. Bryston is the hottest company in hifi right now, and for very good reason.
If you think the Apollo is cheaply made and doesn't sound good, I can't imagine you thinking NAD will sound acceptable in any way. Maybe not.
Ha Ha well the Apollo is quite popular on this forum but on others it isn't.Sorry just not a fan.If was going to spend a grand on a cd player I would look at other options which is why I was asking about the Bada and Esounds.I don't want to spend more than a grand which is why I am not looking at Bryston.
I think you've been given the best recommendation in the BCD-1, but if you are set on trying $1K players until you find that $5K sound, you could consider trying to listen to a used Cary 303/200, which has balanced outputs and digital input.
Well I buy pretty much everything used.Which is how I bought the Apollo with all the hype I figured maybe I was getting a $2000 sounding unit for $700 or whatever I paid for it.I ended up getting a $300 sounding unit in my opinion.It wasn't an awful unit but it did not distinguish itself from several $500 cdps that I have heard/owned over the years
So yeah I f I only spend a grand I am looking at used or Chinese hence the initial inquiry.Tawaun seems to like the Bada stuff any other users of Bada ?
I think you may have been asked a couple of times about whether it is the CDP or the environment. Are your speakers properly set up, have you used any room treatments?
Do you use a turntable? I did not ask about other sources as they generally would be of lesser audio quality.
What is the rest of your system along with the Apollo?
Please do not think that I am assuming that if you do not like the Apollo something is wrong somewhere else in your set up. To each their own. It just makes more sense to insure that one has optimized their environment from speaker placement, seating position, room treatments, power, cabling, etc. before auditioning other gear that would be affected by the same limitations of a set up that is not providing optimal performance.
Letting us know what the rest of your kit is can also help with the selection of a CDP with respect to system synergy.
I still would listen to the Bryston first, for obvious reasons. If the OP wants connectivity, then the Bryston BDA-1 is also very good, but add a transport and cabling.
I replaced a Denon 3910 with the Apollo.I am not really looking for anyone to change my mind on the Apollo I sold it and as I said it's a second system which is why I have some parts in it that outclass others.I haven't got the synergy right that I want.
I tried the Apollo with some Swan 2.1se.some Wharfie Evo-2-10's some MA Rs-6's some Totem Arros,Rainmakers and some Salk Songtowers.Liked the Denon better in all cases.It's not my room or anything else.Perhaps I like the sound of Burr Browns more than Wolfson.Who knows?
From what I hear both the Bada and the Esound and even the Mhzs cd-66f hit well above their price point which is where I am looking for info.
That you liked the Denon better says more about what one might recommend for you than about anything else you've said...along with the fact that you were entertaining an NAD as a replacement....wow. No doubt to me that the Denon isn't nearly as good with CD's as the Apollo...something else is wrong in the system.
Almost sounds like Rod and TW are brothers by reading through this thread...hmmm interesting. I agree with Nuck, talk to TW. He has the scoop on the gear perhaps you are looking for. Your the only other guy ever to have the Swan's too that I know of other than TW. Cool beans. Send him a PM>
The folks that I know who have tried Bada have not been very impressed, especially with build quality.
Again though...
"I tried the Apollo with some Swan 2.1se.some Wharfie Evo-2-10's some MA Rs-6's some Totem Arros,Rainmakers and some Salk Songtowers.Liked the Denon better in all cases.It's not my room or anything else.Perhaps I like the sound of Burr Browns more than Wolfson.Who knows?"
That statement makes no sense from my knowledge of both pieces. I'm not a Apollo fan to the exclusion of other gear...I'll consider any piece that I believe outperforms it..the Denon is not such a piece, not with redbook cd's.
I agree, as a previous 3910 owner the Apollo blew it out of the water in terms of sound quality. In comparison the Denon had a somewhat laid back, lack lustre performance. Even redbook cd's sound better with the Apollo than SACD's with the Denon imo. The Denon was good for multi channel, but to each his own I guess.
Well I tried other units also the Denon was the one I last recall I also had a ARC cd player and a Rotel rcd 1072 that sounded as good as the Apollo in this system.
I know lots of you guys like the Apollo.I didn't. I felt it was bloated and lacking in detail.But again I said it was no better or worse than other $500 cd players which I stand by.
"a Rotel rcd 1072 that sounded as good as the Apollo in this system."
"I felt it was bloated and lacking in detail."
If the 1072 sounded "as good as" the Rega, and the Apollo sounded "bloated and lacking in detail", did the 1072 sound bloated too ? Or did it have some other unfortunate quality that caused you to not like it either, just no worse than the Apollo.
Not trying to be difficult, but just trying to find what it is you are looking for in a cdp. The 1072 and Apollo sound nothing alike to my ears. I can see someone liking either one, mind you, but most people (IMO) would prefer one or the other. It wouldn't be an "liked as much as" situation.
If you can spell out what you are looking for people may be able to be of more assistance. There are lots of options in the $1000 range in both cdp and DAC solutions.
I still have a modded Rotel which significantly outperforms a 1072 and the Apollo is head and shoulders better. Your digging a hole Rod. Your either not telling the truth or you have a system with a whole lot of issues that the Apollo couldn't fix.
Not liking the Apollo is not a crime however your description of it matches no other I've ever heard or read. Your credibility is waning...
Digging a hole ?Hardly.Look around some other forums and you will find a small group of people who are really shocked that the Apollo had/has such a cult following that it does.
I guess you could say a pack mentality about people purchasing similar gear which they want to believe is the best in it's price range.In my view people who take this approach lack credibility...
Also to reiterate one last time I am not asking about the Apollo.I don't like it and won't recommend it.That's great a bunch of you like it and that's great. I'm not calling you idiots.
Initially I asked about the Bada,Esound and Nad565bee.Now the Nad should be less of a cdp than the Apollo but I was looking for first hand experience telling my that this wasn't the case because I would tend to believe it.
Also the reviews on the Bada and Esounds generally indicate a level of perfrormance above the Apollo at a similar price point,hence the original question.
Where is the cult Rod? There is no Apollo cult here. The minute I can afford better I will buy it. Bloated...that's just plain silly.
Again I reiterate (redundant I know) that it's no crime to dislike the Apollo and there are a number of CD players in the $1500 range that I would rather have...for instance the latest incarnation of the Roksan Kandy. But you make no sense when you make comparisons to the Rotel or NAD players.
At 1k it is still a great buy and $1200 I would have done more shopping.
Is the Apollo the be all end all, noooo! It lacks resolution and is a bit bass shy, it's also not the smoothest player in town. What it has that other's in it's price range generally don't is an ability to make sense of music, real toe tapping sense...whether classical and jazz or reggae and soul the Apollo gets the basics right.
No, the Apollo is not the be all and end all of players, but few could hold a candle to it in its price range. Many other brands have lifted their game since its release as it has cost them dearly as Apollo sales went through the roof.
It's no sin to dislike any brand, but as Art indicated, your comparisons don't make any sense. I'm not too sure you haven't posted this to get a rise out of the many Apollo owners here, but even if you did, there's not a person here who would not admit it can be bettered.
There are quite a few decent Chinese made brands so go listen and get what your ears want. But if lack of opportunity does not allow that, you run the risk of more disappointment to go by some one else's opinion.
Gee Art me thinks you are being just a bit too condescending here.It's the same analogy as saying there is no way someone could find a $500 pair of speakers that will outdo a $1000 set of speakers.
Guess what I could find a $500 set that would beat say a $1000 pair of Rega speakers up and down the court.It's not impossible you just need to know where to look.
From reading some posts it doesn't sound like too many are ready to go on a limb with something not made in the UK or NA.That's fine but you are limiting yourself greatly here.
And yes I found the Apollo very very BLOATED sounding.
lol this is all sounding very familiar already....
To add, before buying my Apollo I searched high and low on the net and in magazines to see what people, and professional reviewers alike had to say. I know this is not how you buy audio equipment, and I didnt, I tested the heck out the apollo against fair competition in my own system. But reading all over the net, almost everyone agreed that the Apollo was the best sounding cdp in its price range. Magazines of all sorts also put the Apollo on a pedestal as one of a kind in its class. If not, best in its class. To my ears the Apollo does not sound bloated at all. It does everything Rega does well, mainly, good ol toe tapping music that pulls out the detail well and is very timely. It also brings what I think are poor traits that come with a Rega product. That is a little lacking on bass, and slightly thin sounding at times. Or edgy I guess you could say. Still amazing stuff for the price, but nothing is perfect, and that is just what my ears hear. I can't see however, how anyone can think it is bloated. But hey, to each their own I guess.
Can you beat the Apollo? Hell yeah. Is it a similar priced Chinese product? I have no idea, and nobody that I know of carry the products.
IMO if you have owned 4-6 different cdp's and have not been completely satisfied with any of them. Then a.) there is something else wrong with the system or b.) You need to go to a much higher class that a 1000 dollar cdp.
If you want to keep searching for sub 1000 dollar cd players, then unfortunately I can't help you. Maybe Arcam? Sorry I dont know any chinese company names.
Personally, I wont even think of an cd player upgrade. I would be going half decent DAC with a kick butt full fledge media server. But, hey, thats just me
A full media server = Your blu ray/dvd/cd player. TV tuner/ Tv recorder/ PVR all in one. Music library/music backup(all in flac or wav), video library, dvd library, networked media hub, multiple 1080p outputs (HDMI,DVI/Component). S-Video, Composit, Digital Optical, Digital Coax built machine. LOL Was I clear on that? All in one machine. Controlled by either a IR controller, or wireless keyboard. Oh, and it could be also be used with Ellan and Crestron home automation systems.
Technically, if your not into that. And just want something for music. A laptop and a hard drive is dandy. Also, anybody see the new Windows Media Server 7 ( Windows 7) WHOOLLY CRAP. It looks sweet on the projo at 1080p.
To answer your question Mike. An external Hard Drive is basically the storage of the music/movies or whatever. The Media center is the system that controls it, lets you store it in an orderly fashion, makes it easily accessible. You could plug your external drive into a Media Center machine (basically these are custom PC's) and can upload the music into the Music Library, or just stream right from it. The Media Center, then allows you to access the music either by Album, Artist, Date, or Search by word phrase for music. All of this could be projected onto any screen at full 1080p and played through any hi fi or theater system. The media center is basically the heart of the whole thing. If built properly. It could replace every source as we know of today, all in a very sleek, sexy way. Oh and you can use custom made cases that look just like AVR's and Amps. So sleek.
Basically, an External drive and PC/DAC combo is fine. But the media center does EVERYTHING, and brings it all together in one system, one machine.
I hope I explained it ok. It is tough to put it into words.
For music only I've settled on a fairly simple chain. Imac with 1tb drive/ all music in Apple Lossless. Sent wireless to Airport Express w/optic to Digital input of my CA840 and at least the music portion, controlled with an Ipod Touch w/the free app....'Remote'. Stereo is controlled thru a Logitech Harmony system. simple, effective and sort of wife-friendly. She can access HER playlist and just put it on 'shuffle' for several days music without repeat.
But, if you ever have a chance to check out the new Windows 7's Media Center in just a short replace of the IMac. You will be blown away. And surprised its a Microsoft product.lol.
I have searched high and low, far and wide.lol. No media server software to date, comes close to the new Windows 7. It will smash the new Mac OS. Big time.
Either way, the setup you have right now is very cool. Especially if you an apple guy.
"For music only I've settled on a fairly simple chain. Imac with 1tb drive/ all music in Apple Lossless. Sent wireless to Airport Express w/optic to Digital input of my CA840 and at least the music portion, controlled with an Ipod Touch w/the free app....'Remote'. Stereo is controlled thru a Logitech Harmony system. simple, effective and sort of wife-friendly. She can access HER playlist and just put it on 'shuffle' for several days music without repeat."
Hmmmph?! I still get up to change the volume - with dual vc's no less!
"Digging a hole ?Hardly.Look around some other forums and you will find a small group of people who are really shocked that the Apollo had/has such a cult following that it does.
I guess you could say a pack mentality about people purchasing similar gear which they want to believe is the best in it's price range.In my view people who take this approach lack credibility... "
"You guys can't hear crap and you all lack credibility but what's your opinion on these players?"
Nick, I'm the worst kind. I am a fairly recent convert to Mac, so i preach the loudest! I simply got tired of being tagged by bums with nothing better to do than write code to screw up someone else's computer. All the administrative stuff I had to do to keep my Windows machine functional. I never did get Vista, instead being a late adopter of XP after I started having trouble getting drivers (yet more windows fun) for my Win2K system. That being said, I think #7 could be the sweet spot MicroShaft has been looking for. Also, since I am mainly a photographer by hobby / avocation, I prefer Mac also for its color management features. Once I figured it out, I can make a print which matches my monitor AND can ship the file to my local BigBox store with THERE profile and get matching results. WinWin.... I'll cross the BlueRay bridge when I come to it!
As for Rod and his hammering on the Apollo:: Rod:: when you settle on a player, re-post. I personally didn't go the Apollo route, but I never got on here and hammered those who prefer it not necessarily because it is the BEST but for the value it has and all the things it does right. I went a slightly different direction without regret.
Still need a cdp, or at least a transport to record the tunes. And a BR too. That siad, I have never played a BR movie, just dvd, which is meh for video, good for sound PMC stereo.
You need to get with this century and get a Blu-ray player. The thing is, some digital transfers (pic quality wise) on BR are phenomenal, while some others are grainy. The thing is, the audio on BR's is always amazing.
Then again there is always the odd ball 2 channel guy who gives a rat's as$ about anything more than L front and R front.
I figure if it is my room I always can sit in the sweet spot so the center channel does not matter. LOL
Just kidding guys, but truly it has been 3 or 4 months since I last turned on my HT system which co-habitats with my 2 channel set up.
I did buy a BD player, but the selling point is that I can do Netflicks online a lot cheaper than I can get my HD premium channels for. I have it downstairs with my 2 speakers and sub sitting behind the 1080p LCD instead of upstairs with the HT system and 720 plasma.
See, I wasn't kidding that HT just isn't my hobby.
Thanks for your response. I apparently fell into the right set up. Again not kidding. I bought a HP Pavillion Media Server without any thought to this audio concept. It happened to be the best deal from what I calculated at Costco. Then I won the outboard 320Gb hard drive at a golf tournament. Then JV got my attention with the Media Streamer+.
Now I am off messin' with cables, power, and stuff to move this configuration closer to better than pretty damn good.
I don't know the Bada and Esound brands you were specifically looking for info on. I can possibly help on your query re: NAD.
Don't go there. NAD make fine CD players but since you disliked the Apollo I think the NAD will not be for you. Both brands present music ina flowing cohesive manner, but at the expense of scale and clarity.
I saw someone mention Naim. The Naim's tend to be clearer and lots are available 2nd hand, but again they major on pace rhythm and timing rather than space clarity and resolution.
In your case I think I'd look at the following brands, all of which major on a wide open soundstage with scale and resolution as their primary strengths. Marantz, Cyrus, Rotel (yes, guys, really), Musical Fidelity, Prima Luna, Copland, T+A, Audionet.
Weird. I'm using an Apollo with a Bryston B60 and Hawks and it sounds great, no bloat whatsoever.
The Apollo is definitely a best-bang-for-buck player. Don't know how anyone could prefer a Denon, NAD, or some $500 player over it, but I suppose everyone's ears are different.
Jan, I just read your answer and my original post. Yeah, It could be construted as funny. What's simple to a geek-type is certainly NOT to a regular guy. I HAD 4 or 5 remotes for the TV. Receiver / TV / Amp / CD player / DVD player My brother was visiting and I saw him trying to get the TV started and having trouble getting everything playing at the same time. I 'bout laughed myself silly and he was on the verge of buying me a new TV.
David, You see I wrote HAD!!! Currently using as you suggest .......TA DA....A Logitech remote. Trying to get the wife up to speed on 'activity based' usage is a little difficult but not obscenely so. Didn't go to the Harmony level, but the 'C-note' I dropped at the big box store was well spent. HOWEVER.....they DID have listings for my PS Audio Integrated! The Sony TV the Dish box and the OPPO DVD player. The lack? I couldn't find a listing for my CA840. It works, but thinks it is a CA340, which I've not heard of.... My brother just dropped in for a visit so I HID the Logitech and put out the old, fistfull of remotes. Film at 11.
