DeVore Fidelity Gibbon 8
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10188 Registered: Feb-05 | I may have a chance at a pair of demo Gibbon 8's. I'll know in the next few weeks. You guys know that they are my dream speaker...don't want to jinx it but boy am I excited!  Oh yeah! |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3380 Registered: May-05 | Best of luck to you Art! I know you're been coveting them for a long time. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10189 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks Stu...I think they'd be fab with my Unison amp. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 266 Registered: Jan-09 | I will buy your wharfies!  |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10193 Registered: Feb-05 | The Wharfies are in the second system. The Rega R5's will be for sale as well as a pair of Paradigm Atom Monitor v6's. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 269 Registered: Jan-09 | That says alot that you are keeping the Wharfies. I guess I'm going to have to break down and buy a pair of the Maple 10's. I keep hoping they will mark down the black too. I guess $359 is great price and I should take advantage of the $299 for the maple. Though I was enjoying the sub I just could not get it set where I liked it. I thought about buying a MartinLogan Dynamo sub but I don't think I want to spend $500. I think I will stay with a 2.0 system and upgrade to the 10's. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10196 Registered: Feb-05 | The Rega R5's are just too much for the home office in the second system so I'm willing to sell the R5's (to help finance the move to DeVore) and the Atom Monitors as they are just gathering dust in the closet. I'm also considering selling my beloved Epos ELS 3's...what I'm not going to sell is my Evo's. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 271 Registered: Jan-09 | That is what I'm talking about. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 618 Registered: Jul-07 | Good luck Art! I almost snagged a pair of JMR's twice over the last couple of months and the deal fell through on both occasions. I hope you have better luck than me. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10201 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks Chris...my fingers and toes are crossed. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12915 Registered: Dec-04 | Oh boy, nothing like scoring something you always wanted! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10203 Registered: Feb-05 | Indeed! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10239 Registered: Feb-05 | The Apes are home!   |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2065 Registered: May-06 | I guess he who hesitates is lost, eh Art? You sure moved on those quickly. I would be interested in what you think of the cross-over once you have worked out placement and cables. Sweet! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10240 Registered: Feb-05 | They are discontinuing this model in favor of the new 3XL which is an absolutely beautiful standmount with solid Bamboo cabinets and the Silverback Reference tweeter as well as an all new, to DeVore mid/bass driver. Fantastic looking speaker which I would imagine will perform wonderfully. The simple Gibbon 8 is the one I wanted and I will definitely shout out when I know more. I can say this with certainty...it's a fabulous sounding speaker and a definite upgrade! |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 625 Registered: Jul-07 | I'm happy for you Art. Enjoy them. I've read nothing but great things about anything from DeVore Fidelity, so I expect you'll be reveling in them for quite some time. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3389 Registered: May-05 | Congrats Art! I'm very happy for you. I'll definitely be looking forward to hearing your opinions. |
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Silver Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 105 Registered: May-08 | How does something like this compare to Totem? I read a couple things about them being sort of similar. Is this just BS? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10243 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks guys. I've heard many Totem speakers but only had one in my home and that was the Rainmaker and there really is no comparison. There is not a hint of brightness with the DeVore's. If there would be a similar speaker it would be the Sttaf however they really aren't that similar. The Gibbon's are more dynamic especially relative to percussion and have a more accurate timbre to my ears. The also can do imaging like the Arro as well as throw out a huge soundstage while maintaining excellent focus. John DeVore is a genius in my books. Bass, midrange and high end...everything in it's place and in the right measure...that's music to my ears. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2333 Registered: Nov-05 | Excellent Art, glad you are happy with them. It's great when an upgrade turns out to be a real upgrade. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10245 Registered: Feb-05 | Indeed it is MR and thank you. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10248 Registered: Feb-05 | The best part of today was having my wife with me when we visited Eugene HiFi. The fella's sat us down and we enjoyed some vinyl through a Mastersound 300B SE, DeVore Super 8's and a Scheu Premier table with vdH Frog cart and Cantus arm. Damn that was nice and my wife truly appreciated the sound...excellent! They also had some cheap and wonderful room treatment solutions. Nothing that would be acceptable here so I'm not even going to mention them, all the better not argue over it, however suffice it to say they worked beautifully. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10250 Registered: Feb-05 | Speakers for sale guys. Rega R5's Epos ELS 3's Paradigm Atom Monitor v6's PM if you have any interest. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 277 Registered: Jan-09 | Very nice Art. I am happy for you. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2634 Registered: Jun-07 | Awesome Art. Congrats. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10253 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks Mord and Nick...they are sounding great. Very smooth and yet dynamic. Just letting the music come forward. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 167 Registered: Dec-06 | So are you just demoing these, or do you plan to buy? They look very nice. The off center tweeter is interesting, I know Proac does that a lot. Are the benefits that noticeable? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10256 Registered: Feb-05 | The demo was done the minute the music hit the drivers...buying. That's why most of my other speakers are for sale. Gotta do it, can't have 'em all, no room and need the dough. I had ProAc's and did not like them anywhere near as much as these. Yes the benefits are clear. Not gonna give full impressions yet. It'll be awhile. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2635 Registered: Jun-07 | I was reading up on the Devore site. Very cool indeed Art. I like the guys story and the fact that he is a young dude, hand building great speakers with only a couple other people. True craftsmanship. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10264 Registered: Feb-05 | The fella's have met John and say he is a very nice guy. Laid back and a pleasure to be around. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10268 Registered: Feb-05 | Been spinning vinyl this afternoon and WOW..I can't believe how good the DeVore's sound with vinyl. The Apollo is soundly whipped by the P3-24! See playlist for selections this afternoon. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 881 Registered: Jun-08 | WOW Art! Good for you. That sure was a big move, and fast. Though I know you've probably been considering them for some time. Looking forward to hearing your impressions and where this has taken your system. All the best! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10270 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks George...the DeVore's are definitely a different kind of speaker. On the warm side of neutral but very detailed and fast. It's the first time it's been really clear to me that I'll need a cd player upgrade, not soon however. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 882 Registered: Jun-08 | Yes, I've sensed by your moves, and they've been chesslike, I might ad, that you are attracted to a warmer sound but with could timing and timbre that lets the PRAT through. I'm sure, the DF's are doing it for you. You've got time for a CD upgrade...for now you can enjoy the p3-24 and what it's got to offer, just that much more. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10271 Registered: Feb-05 | Exactly George. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3392 Registered: May-05 | Allow me to plant a seed... Bryston BCD-1 or BDA-1. Cleanliness, smoothness, imaging and soundstaging, tone, timbre, and above all - PRaT. At $2k, the BDA-1 is very flexable and sounds superb. I can't see why people would pay the extra $700 for the CDP version with no digital inputs, but that's just me. I don't have enough experience with the Unico and none with the Gibbons, but if you're after what I think you are, the BDA-1 is the player to beat. I think you said you heard the BCD-1; the BDA-1 is just a little bit better. I'd also look into the Unison CDPs. I know nothing about them, but it seems like a natural partner. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10291 Registered: Feb-05 | You're a baaaad man Stu...lol! When I get there I will certainly look into it. I will be looking at a cd player most likely. I first have to do some long term planning...make sure that I'll stick with the Unison was originally just a stop gap to breath life back into my music. Not sure if it's long term or not...it's a bit noisy. We'll see. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2344 Registered: Nov-05 | Stu's recommendation is a very good one by all accounts, but imo, unless one is into downloaded music now, I believe the cdp itself is most important aspect especially with DAC's getting better and cheaper if one is required in the future. Whatever you do Art, and I believe you know this already of course, is to buy on approval. A high quality player is such a big investment, it needs to be right for your system and listening preferences. There are plenty of great players waiting it's not so easy to end up with Mr Right. Art, I think now maybe my speakers should be my next upgrade. As good as everything sounds right now (and I mean very good), I feel they aren't quite revealing all the Saturn has to offer, I can't explain it, but there seems to be a Mr Hyde waiting to come out, but then that could be because of my room limitations for ideal placement. But this is just daydreaming right now - I'm done for quite a while and very content. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3726 Registered: Sep-04 | Congratulations on your new acquisition Art! Enjoy! Regarding the CD player, I'm surprised that the Apollo is so far behind the P3-24. I know the deck's good but so is the Apollo. Just in case, I would re-seat all the connections between CD player and amp and power cord. You never know with this kind of thing. Re-seat by unplugging and replugging several times over which will also clean the inside of the sockets and make a better contact. Shucks, and here I am selling my Naim CDX2 - shame you don't use decent quality 240V/50hz electricity! Congratulations once again! Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2345 Registered: Nov-05 | Geez, we do Frank, but alas I just bought a Saturn. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10292 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks for the words guys. You are definitely right MR...proceed with caution, make sure it's right before leaping Frank, I will do as you suggested this weekend for sure. Yeah it is a shame about that Naim...but right now I'm selling 3 pair of speakers to fill the gap in paying for the Gibbons. Doggone audio...lol! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10314 Registered: Feb-05 | Well it's official. Gone from demo to purchase. What a great speaker and what a joy to have everything you play regardless of the quality of the recording sound musical and listenable. More later. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3746 Registered: Sep-04 | Fabulous! Have a great deal of fun Art! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3747 Registered: Sep-04 | Hey MR, don't you guys down under need upside down CD players? |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2353 Registered: Nov-05 | No Frank, we just stand on our heads to listen. Hardy ha ha! Art, enjoy those speakers. Now for a Saturn . . . |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10320 Registered: Feb-05 | I'll probably swap the vdH Mainserver power cord for the Mainstream before I switch to the Saturn. The Mainstream will be awesome with the Saturn and meanwhile I'll milk every last ounce of goodie out of the Apollo. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2355 Registered: Nov-05 | Art, can you give me an idea of the improvements with a Mainserver or Mainstream cord on the cdps? They are not cheap! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10329 Registered: Feb-05 | The vdH power cords do what so many others don't and that's leave the basic character of the music in tact. I've tried a bunch of power cords on my system and the vdH are the only ones that reduce noise and let every aspect the music through in a dynamic and clean way which opens up the soundstage and clears up timbre, just makes the sound so much more realistic. I compared my Kimber PK10 just the other night to the Mainstream on the amp and then to the Mainserver on the cd player and there was no comparison the vdH cables were much more musical. The Mainstream will do everything that the Mainserver will do on with the cd player but better. It will open it up even more. With your Saturn I can only imagine how great it would sound. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2356 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanks Art, I may look into it - but not at $900 here for a 1.5 mtr cord. Not that the Saturn needs to sound any better, far from it, but I don't discount further improvements in anything. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10334 Registered: Feb-05 | Be very careful for counterfeits MR. There is a big market in counterfeit vdH cables. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2357 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanks Art, I have a feeling I might have one of those. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10335 Registered: Feb-05 | If in doubt MR send some detailed pics to the fella's at Eugene HiFi... http://eugenehifi.com/ Tell 'em I sent ya and they will do their best to verify the identity of your cable/s. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2070 Registered: May-06 | M.R. I have had good luck with the PS Audio xStream Premier SC Power Cable 1 meter in my Saturn. I picked it up on agon at a very reasonable price. Supposedly their new line is even better, completely new design. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2641 Registered: Jun-07 | How much of a design change could possibly come in a power cable?lol These high end power cables are usually 12awg 3 conductor wire with a 15A Straight blade wall plug, IEC connector plug, some techflex or some kind or cable cover to make it look fancy and a cord noise suppressor. No doubt that a good power cable can make or break a system in the sound department, but I have trouble spending 600 or 900 dollars on a product that was made with 70 dollars in parts and labor. lol. You might as well just go down where they make vDH cables with a bottle of lube and let the guys take turns on you because you just bought into a great big marketing onslaught.LOL!! No doubt they sound good. I will never argue that. Unless someone can shed some light on it for me, perhaps I am just not as educated on the design of a simple power cable. Perhaps this is for another thread. The Devore's look beautiful by the way. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 890 Registered: Jun-08 | I still don't understand the science behind power cables improving on sound but many people swear by them, and some of those I know and trust. I guess one of these days I'll just have to try it for myself. I guess if you had a set of monoblocks and ran a mono soundtrack through them with one having an upgrade cord, that would be the closest thing to a true A/B test. It has been said that there is science and magic in audio. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 191 Registered: Dec-06 | Yeah, I'm not sure about these things either, but I figure I'll be buying a power conditioner and upgraded power cords anyway. God this hobby is something else! But I'm not going to spend gobs of money. PS Audio has some affordable power cords that look really good, and I'll be picking up this Ultralink Power Conditioner/Surge Suppressor: http://www.hometech.com/hts/products/power/surge/ul-pgx.html Apparently when you turn it on it runs a check on the power to ensure everything is normal before it'll let any reach your components. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10336 Registered: Feb-05 | Hate to say this guys but I couldn't possibly care less if anyone believes that a high quality power cable makes a difference. I really don't. If you don't want to try one then that is absolutely cool with me, and I won't argue their merit, I'm not a scientist. The fella who built my interconnects for years doubted the merit of the vdH power cables and so too did his friend Otto...just last week he tried one and won't live without one now. He is a DIY guy and can't believe his ears. I'm not a DIY guy and I know the value of them having changed out a whole bunch of them. Power cords even more than IC's can make a difference that is negative so you have to be really careful that you are not responding to a difference rather than an improvement. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10337 Registered: Feb-05 | BTW the last post is not aimed at anyone so take no offense it's just the truth as my ears tell me and I've always believed my ears over anyone elses logic or science. I listen to music...period. BTW any of ya'll tried the HRT Music Streamer DAC..pretty cool, no power cord...lol! |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2358 Registered: Nov-05 | My Rega dealer believes as you Art. Though he has not tried to sell me one, it was only when I asked did he tell me the improvements are obvious with the right cable. Thanx Mike, worth checking out here. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 192 Registered: Dec-06 | I'm open to everything Art, that's why I'm going to try power cords and conditioners. I was skeptical that speaker cables could affect sound, but I'm sure there was an improvement in sound when I swapped out the Monster cables that were thrown in for free for some Chord Rumor 2. The difference was not night and day, but to my ears I definitely heard an improvement. I was skeptical of just how much impact an amp had, but when I hooked up a real integrated rather than my mini system well, the difference was definitely not subtle. I think it's like they say, assemble a system that works well together first, then add cables for those smaller sonic improvements. They won't make a wholesale change in sound quality, but they might enhance a system's strengths or tame it's weaknesses. My system seems to be leaning towards Chord, speaker cable is the Rumor 2 and interconnect will be Chord Chameleon Silver; perhaps I should opt for a Chord power cable rather than PS Audio. One thing I like about Chord is they recommend matches between their speaker cables and interconnects; cables that basically use the same design themes. I checked van den hul's website and was overwhelmed by the sheer number of cables they offer, and they don't seem to recommend complimentary products. In general terms, far as I know, vdh tends to a warm sound, Chord to neutral, and QED to bright. But I think I'll just stick to Chord since I like the speaker cables I have right now. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2359 Registered: Nov-05 | vdh tends to a warm sound, Chord to neutral, and QED to bright I don't know if I can agree with that Dan - I think it depends on your system's synergy - amp, source & speakers and then of course the ears of the individual. Also cables will make usually make a more noticeable difference with quality increments in components and room acoustics - I am led to believe. I have vdh speaker cable of which I am extremely satisfied and I recently swapped my vdh interconnects for chord from cdp to amp which I found was very slight improvement in high frequency detail, but I could not describe the VDH as warm - much closer to neutral to my ears. I have two pair, one a suspect counterfiet, the other genuine cable with non-factory plugs. I'ts all a lotto unless you can borrow various cables to try. What a ridiculously frustrating hobby :-) But it does have it's rewards. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2642 Registered: Jun-07 | I definitely feel different power cables can definitely change the sound for the better. My post was more based on the price of these cables. It is kind of outrageous. I know the material involved in making a high end power cable and to think these companies are charging 900 dollars for one makes my guts turn.lol. A basic cable has about 3 dollars in material, and if you rip apart a high end one it is roughly around 75 dollars of material. I could be wrong about some brands. And I also could be missing a secret ingredient these companies are using. The better cables just use better cable/ends and such. Anyway, no doubt they make a difference in sound, and what comes with differences is improvements. What boggles me is just the price, that's all. Cheers |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10339 Registered: Feb-05 | As with most audio gear you are paying for ideas and not materials. Trust me I don't like paying $329 and $599 for power cords. I have a great piece of gear and I want to get the most out of it so make sure give it the best chance at at great sound that I can afford. When I swap out the Mainserver for the Mainstream I will be hearing the Apollo do pretty much all it can do...it's worth it to me. The most expensive "part" on most amps is the case and look how much we pay. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 194 Registered: Dec-06 | Well I am in the process of upgrading to components that are all in the $1,500 range and solid cabling and once that's done I'll be good for at least ten years. Hopefully.  |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2071 Registered: May-06 | I would like to go back to M.R.'s post above. "I think it depends on your system's synergy - amp, source & speakers and then of course the ears of the individual. Also cables will make usually make a more noticeable difference with quality increments in components and room acoustics" I have to agree with him. In speaking to Mark O'Brien, CEO of Rogue Audio, about power cables, he let me know that with the outboard transformer that Rogue uses for their Magnum 99 preamplifier that I would need to plug in a power cord that cost as much as the preamplifier itself to gain a significant difference in sound. I had this discussion with him as when I was going through my power upgrade experiments I found that my cheapest after market power cord, Element Cable's Red Storm, worked as well as power cords costing 10 times as much. Mark validated my results and I left this power cord connected to my Rogue preamplifier. Dan, just a word of caution, most power conditioners get in the way of the sound. I had a Monster Cable power re generator fronting their best conditioner. My Panamax, at a fraction of the cost worked better. I tried MIT, PS Audio and Shunyata. Each manufacturer's product brought something as well as took away something. The Shunyata works very well but in my set up it changed the sound, slowed it down, seemingly heavier. The PS Audio improved all of my components except my McIntosh MC-7300. The MAC amp worked best out of the wall. Finally I had three dedicated circuits brought in for my kit, one 20 amp for my 3 amps, one 15 amp dedicated for my preamp, and one 15 amp for my sources. I then sold all of my Monster products, moved the Panamax to my HT set-up, and sold the PS Audio Duet to JV. My profile has what power cords I have in what gear. My MAC gear all has OEM power cords. There is probably still a product out there that might make slight improvements, perhaps a PS Audio Power Plant Premier, however at that price point there isn't value in it for me. I would only expect minor improvements from where I am at today. It is worth it to go down the path of demoing different products as I am in Art's camp on the value of after market power products. I only caution that you do your best to A/B your choices as not everything is right for your kit. Nick, PS Audio's sight goes into detail regarding the engineering, design, and build of their power cables. Maybe I should have you build me a couple of 1.5 meter cords since I think I can afford yours? Cheers! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10342 Registered: Feb-05 | I agree with MR's statement as well Mike. I was going to mention that a post or two ago...but it right on from my experience. And as I stated before, be careful that you are not reacting to a change rather than an improvement when auditioning cables of any sort. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2645 Registered: Jun-07 | I guess, these companies can try different cable, different style of ends, better shielding. The most expensive 12awg cable we could find at work for our 15amp power panels that power object tracking PTZ's was like 9 dollars a foot. There is only one design to a power cable. The only difference between a cheap cable and a good one is quality of the actual cable, ends and added noise suppressors. Quality of the design is one thing, but there is only ONE design to how a power cable functions. Therefore when I see the words engineering, design and power cable in the same sentence I scratch my head. Why is it that rega or mac or bryston sell cdp's and amps that just come with regular power cables? Wouldn't they want someone spending 6 grand on their amps to get the best out of their equipment? I don't get it. The differences could be there for sure, but on paper it couldn't be "better". So I agree with what you guys are saying in that regard. Especially a power run of only 6 feet or so. The amount of amps that any given product draws would not drop the voltage on a 12awg power cable until you hit 100's and 100's of feet. I am talking 100's of feet. At 1.5amp draw while using 16awg wire, the voltage isn't affected until 60 feet or so. I think where the power really comes to make a system improve in sound is in the actual home itself. The best way to have the best power possible IMO is to do what Mr. Wodek did and put in dedicated lines. That, for sure, can bring definite improvement in sound quality. I am not trying to be argumentative I am just curious, and love to learn about this stuff. I have not played with a lot of power cables before, just because I never felt the need and thought it couldn't really help. Maybe its just a bit of the pr!ck engineer coming out in me. Maybe I am dead wrong about the whole thing.lol. Maybe I need to play with some power cables. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10344 Registered: Feb-05 | Indeed dedicated lines make a difference. When I have my whole house rewired coming up in a couple of years I will keep audio in mind. We had electrical problems in my neighborhood over the last several years and the whole area was just rewired and so that too would make a difference wouldn't you think. Follow the logic, all the way back to the source. Other than not wanting this thread to turn into yet another cable debate...I want to reiterate, if just a bit differently, that when my ears hear a difference and it isn't subtle that tells me that there is something there worth pursuing and I care not one iota whether skeptics can figure out how to explain it. Now that's just me, using my money ofcourse YMMV. I remember my friend Jim who owns Northwest Audio Labs telling me years ago that his most difficult customers were the HP engineers (Hewlett Packard in Corvallis) because they didn't trust their ears...if they couldn't explain it then they didn't believe it, even if they heard it. Now I know you would be more open minded Nick...I recommend you try a handful of power cords and see if you hear a difference...if you do and can't explain it will you believe it. I think you will, because you are reasonable. |
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Bronze Member Username: Just_wax_itMontreal, Quebec Post Number: 25 Registered: Jun-09 | Art, so you decided to settle with the DeVore camp. Glad to hear that youre enjoying them. Did you audition any others in their respective price range? Spendor s5e's impressed me. I was completely struck by their capabilities and are IMO propably the best floorstanders Ive heard under msrp 3000$ Havent heard Devoirs but would definitely like to. I have Gallos and Audio Physics on my list already. I still think you need to hear those swedish midgets though. You're afraid they could seriously challenge your new "bride"? :D Seriously, like I said already, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts as I noticed we had similiar if not exactly same perception on R5's. Im telling you, those midgets really are something else. Most importantly you seem to be enjoying your new pair which is all that matters. Congrats! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10345 Registered: Feb-05 | I've heard the s5e's a good number of times. When I chose the R5's, I chose them with a P3 over the s5e's without the P3. They are a pretty good speaker but the Gibbon 8's are considerably better. I really like the s5e's with Naim gear. I'm not even sure where they carry Guru's around here but I'll give 'em a listen one of these days. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2360 Registered: Nov-05 | If in doubt MR send some detailed pics to the fella's at Eugene HiFi... Art, thanks. I may do that some time, but I seriously doubt they or even those at VDH could tell the difference. From all photos they are precisely the same, both cable color and print, direction sticker and the frosty gold interconnects. They came in a black tie bag screen printed with the VDH logo. I know these guys can be clever, but they may be the real deal - the sound is the same as the other pair with different interconnects. My suspicion was that the terminals were not a firm fit either on the Saturn's outputs or A5 inputs where both the other vdh cable and the Chord Cobra are good and firm. That and the fact I paid about a third of the retail here and they came from a Hong Kong audio dealer. |
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Bronze Member Username: Just_wax_itMontreal, Quebec Post Number: 26 Registered: Jun-09 | Just to be clear, the Gibbon 8's and the Super 8's are different or the same speakers? |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2646 Registered: Jun-07 | Art- You are right. I trust my ears any day over anything on paper. I will play around with some power cables in the short future and keep you posted. Thanks guys. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10346 Registered: Feb-05 | MR, the guys I referred you to are some of the folks who uncovered the fraud by identifying counterfeits from online photo's so you never know. Raheem the Gibbon 8 is a different and recently discontinued speaker. The Gibbon 8 retailed for 3k and the Super 8 at $4500 in the standard finish. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2361 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanks Art. Okay I'll send some pics and we'll see what they say. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 806 Registered: Dec-07 | I have a hard enough time following the argument to use the same manufacturer and design philosophy for ICs and speaker cables. It completely baffles me how the "consistency of design philosophy" thing extends all the way back to the power cable. Perhaps it does, and I would not argue with those that hear a synergy or improvement, but I sure don't follow how or why it does in any engineering sense, and for the cost of entry, I think I will be content to remain stumped for a long time--LOL. Power conditioners are an area where I don't follow the almost universal aversion to their use. If a power conditioner "takes away from the SQ" then maybe it is either not a very good power conditioner, or the power quality is adequate. I would think a good clean supply of juice would be just what the doctor ordered. A very good power conditioner is, to me, a better means to an end than a multi-hundred dollar power cord carrying the same dirty power. Just my two cents. Belated congrats on the DeVores Art. Real beauties. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 195 Registered: Dec-06 | I'm not too sure about the power cable, that is in play before any source material comes into question (at least for the CD player, but not for the amp ~ how much power an amp uses at any given moment I would think is partially determined by the source material, as you said you would want good quality power here I'd think). But if we accept that cables (speaker and interconnect) do affect sound, then it makes sense to me that you'd want to match them so that you have two cables that are doing the same thing. Otherwise, if one tends to be smooth sounding and the other harsh you may be canceling out the benefit (assuming you want added smoothness). Actually, I just typed the above and re-read what you wrote Neil, you were really more questioning power cables and their role in consistency of design philosophy. I kind of lean the same way on that one obviously, but I am no engineer. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10352 Registered: Feb-05 | Yikes I'm sorry I mentioned my power cords. Even Neil has a statement, more about power cords than DeVore's. Look I'm not trying to convince anyone of their merits if you want to continue to not use aftermarket power cords that's fine, your loss not mine. And as for power conditioners, I used them for years. I found that the negatives outweighed the positives for me. Someday I may again use one, I just have to hear one that works well and sounds good, period. Damn...please no more about friggin cables. |
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Bronze Member Username: Just_wax_itMontreal, Quebec Post Number: 32 Registered: Jun-09 | Now you caught my interest. How did power conditioners give negative results exactly? ps. The more relaxed sound of devore is a logical continuation from the R5's? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10353 Registered: Feb-05 | NO MORE ABOUT CABLES, POWER CONDITIONERS OR ANYTHING BUT SPEAKERS! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2648 Registered: Jun-07 | Art- How did you find the placement with the Devore's? Were they less difficult to place based on the face the R5's have the side firing sub/woofer? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10354 Registered: Feb-05 | This weekend I'll post more about them...long work days this week. Placement was a bear though Nick. When you find that spot though you really know it. They are a fabulous speaker! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3756 Registered: Sep-04 | Sorry Art, I have to answer something here... Most of the after-market power cords available use wider diameter cores and some use screening. These cords affect the input mains impedance perceived by the unit, be it a CD player or amplifier or whatever. This is enough for the unit to perform differently, and this is why power cords can have an effect on the sound you get from a unit (and not always a completely beneficial effect). Raheem, I have yet to find a power conditioner which improves my system. Many do good things and usually lower the noise floor, but most of the time they rob the music of some life. Power conditioners work best in steady state situations and HiFi systems are designed for continuous change - perhaps the difference in goals is not a synergistic match? I'm not saying it's impossible for a conditioner to improve the system, but I have yet to hear one which does. I would like to hear a PS Audio PPP though... Sorry Art! Those De Vores look mighty fine, along with the rest of the room. When you set them up do you angle them ever so slightly upwards? I find this has a beneficial effect on spatial imagery as well as cohesion on speakers with a relatively low tweeter placement (using a spirit level I just let the bubble touch the front line so they're just off dead level). Also, I get the impression they're 'sided'. Have you played around with tweeters on the outside versus on the inside? Cheers, Frank. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10355 Registered: Feb-05 | Frank, John DeVore recommends the tweeters on the outside and that's how I'm using them. Also, he provides shims to go between the speaker cabinet and the top of the spike so I tried a couple of different heights to get the right height for my room and listening position. I also tried many combinations of distances from each other and from the the rear wall. Also tried placing them on various materials from plywood to granite. In the end I think that a thin but firm hardwood plinth would be ideal however I don't have one at present. I have them back in the carpet for now. I came accross my present placement almost by accident. I turned on the music and pow it was dead on.... John DeVore recommends considerable toe in and he is right at least as my room works. I have them toed so that from my listening chair I have to lean nearly equally to the left or right to see the speaker cabinets sides. I get an amazing soundstage without sounding artificially large and excellent imaging...deep and tuneful bass into the mid 30's without any overhang or port noise. Quite a change from the R5's. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 814 Registered: Dec-07 | Jeez, you try to catch up, read through the thread about a great new set of speakers and 90% of the posts are about power cables. (The other 10% are about what CDP to buy). Sooo.......excuuuzzz me for posting about power cables. And you started it BTW. Enjoy your speakers. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10372 Registered: Feb-05 | Neil we were discussing the next upgrade which started with the source and then onto the power cable to enhance the present source before making the move...not whether cables make a difference. "I'll probably swap the vdH Mainserver power cord for the Mainstream before I switch to the Saturn. The Mainstream will be awesome with the Saturn and meanwhile I'll milk every last ounce of goodie out of the Apollo." That was my first mention of the power cord. Some of us have been here long enough that we've watched each others systems evolve. So yes we often go to a discussion of the next upgrade when visiting the present one. You've been around audio enough to know that threads that discuss whether cables work or not always wind up a mess. That's not what this thread was about...it was about a wonderful upgrade I made and wanted to share with the folks here at ecoustics. This is a community where we share our conquests and disappointments. Sorry if that doesn't work for you. Although I don't recall you complaining about the other new gear threads getting off track. Now that we are back on track...thank you Frank...you seem to want to take us backward. Let's not go there but instead let's go forward...aight. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 815 Registered: Dec-07 | "This is a community where we share our conquests and disappointments. Sorry if that doesn't work for you. Although I don't recall you complaining about the other new gear threads getting off track." It works fine for me, Art, since I was not the one complaining about the thread getting off track, you were. And, you apparently felt strongly enough about it to single me out by name after several dozen posts about power cables?? ' "I'll probably swap the vdH Mainserver power cord for the Mainstream before I switch to the Saturn. The Mainstream will be awesome with the Saturn and meanwhile I'll milk every last ounce of goodie out of the Apollo." ' What the he!! was I thinking? Sorry. I'll try and stay OT next time. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10373 Registered: Feb-05 | Neil, as I stated the problem was not the discussion about the next potential upgrade but rather the tired old arguments about whether cables make a difference. I don't know how I can further clarify that. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2654 Registered: Jun-07 | Cables do make a difference. End of argument.lol Art- based on the current setup you have, are you thinking Saturn? Or different brand all together? Do Unison(did I get the spelling right) have a matching cdp to hit that sweet spot with your amp? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10374 Registered: Feb-05 | I would be thinking Saturn...but would be open to other players as well. Unison does have a matching cd player but this model of Unsion is a short term solution (1-2 yrs) as I want an amp with a quieter background and Unison says that they have solved that issue in their latest generation of hybrid integrateds. I'm thinking the Unison Research Unico Primo. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2655 Registered: Jun-07 | Awesome. From reading up on the Devore site it appears that he likes using a lot of old gear for voicing his gear. This true or am I dead wrong? What kind of gear does the gent recommend for the Devore's? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10378 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm not sure he does recommend Nick. He obviously shows with different gear. I think he was recently showing with Leben amps. I know that he screens his dealers very carefully...making sure that they will show his speakers well with high quality, well made gear. In Oregon there are only 2 dealers. Two Bald Guys in Portland and Eugene HiFi in Eugene. Both do audio out of their homes and at least in the case of Eugene HiFi provide unparalled customer service. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13024 Registered: Dec-04 | No rookies allowed. Very good! |
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Bronze Member Username: Just_wax_itMontreal, Quebec Post Number: 60 Registered: Jun-09 | Instead of drifting from the topic/title of this thread could you Art share some light as to what made you end up with DeVore? How long have they been on your shortlist? Do they have some sort of unique design or technical qualities? Any immediately recognizable and unique sound qualities? What about system mathing? Do the blend in inconspicuously? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10382 Registered: Feb-05 | Yep I'll get to that when I get to it. I listen on weekends only as I work long days and turn in early during the work week and during the summer I listen even less because once he temp gets too warm I don't run the gear, it's been between 100 and 108 degrees here and we don't do those temps well. I have A/C but don't run it much. Would far rather hang outside with a glass of wine. So when they are sufficiently run in and I've listened to enough of a variety of music I'll give more impressions. Technical I don't and won't do, no interest in anything but the music and if the speaker let's the music move me, meaning doesn't get in the way then it has done it's job. So I'll give impressions and may just do it as I go along we'll see. The DeVore's have been on the shortlist since I heard them in Seattle and read more about John DeVore and his love of music...that's what drives me is the love of music and the desire to get as close to it as I can. That's why I attend a lot of live music. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "blend in inconspicuously"...hard for a speaker to do that I think, but maybe you'll clarify and tomorrow evening I can answer. Tomorrow I get to go with my supervisors supervisor to training...hand picked no less as I'll be hiring managers in my district.... Won't be on the computer except very briefly in the morning and then after work as Thursday is my Friday...yippie. So I will address most of these questions, except the one relative to technical qualities, in time. Thanks for asking |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10406 Registered: Feb-05 | So somewhere I mentioned trying a number of surfaces under the Gibbons. I tried ceramic tile, granite tile, thin (all I had) plywood, carpet, plastic floor/spike protectors, metal floor/spike protectors in combination with all of the above. The best result was from the ply but it was too thin and precarious even with the protectors, second best was a different placement straight up in the carpet. However I knew I wanted to get some heavier ply to try. Yesterday I set out to find what I needed knowing that I have no way to cut the ply, so I would have to find a place that would sell it and cut it. Nope, not gonna happen. So finally I wound up at a place called Mike's Bargain Center and I walked in and right there in front of my eyes were 15 x 15 ix 3/4 inch ply tiles...a buck each. Took 'em home placed the speakers and HOLY SHITE! The improvements were all I expected plus some. Detail retrieval, soundstage, bass reproduction, microdynamics, drum & precussion slam all improved more than just a little bit. They apes went from a very good speaker to an outstanding one...viva la apes! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13057 Registered: Dec-04 | Atta boy art! Now go to the dollar store and pick up a few anti-slip mats and add another layer of ply with these in between. Add as necessary or acceptable.  |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10408 Registered: Feb-05 | Think not... |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13059 Registered: Dec-04 | You might like...recommended tweak. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10410 Registered: Feb-05 | Remember they are in the living room a shared space...not a dedicated room. I won't be doin' bags of rice either...lol! |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 832 Registered: Dec-07 | You could try MW's birch veneer plywood, also 3/4" and can be dressed up nicely if needed for the comp'ny. Someone who makes furniture in your area may have enough offcuts to suffice since I think this stuff costs about $80 a sheet. And you have to cut it! Doh! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10414 Registered: Feb-05 | This ply that I have is very nice and could be finished nicely. I really got lucky in finding exactly what I needed and it really has made an incredible difference. I thought the Gibbons sounded good before...now they blow my mind. These and the old Naim Ariva are my fav 3k speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2074 Registered: May-06 | Art, I am using American Hardwood cutting boards, similar in size to yours. It did what the birch plywood did but with a more neutral presentation. You have missed the point with the shelf liner. Having a shared living space has nothing to with anything here. We are talking about the a roll of the stuff you cut and fit into your kitchen drawers to keep your utensils in order. It is a made of a no slip rubber like material. What Nuck is telling you is to cut pieces of it, one for between each layer of plywood. If you cut it correctly, each piece would be slightly smaller than each plywood tile. The purpose for this is to bond the pieces of wood together to allow the solution you put in place to work optimally. What you did for your DeVores is exactly what I did for my Gallos. In my case it kept the floor from sucking half of the life out of my speakers (using the shelf liner between each board). |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 13062 Registered: Dec-04 | It is a very effective plinth Art, and very tuneable with added pieces. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10416 Registered: Feb-05 | I didn't miss the point Mike. Remember I'm using one piece of ply with each speaker not two. The one piece of ply is loud enough if you get my drift, 2 would stand out that much more and I gotta tell ya I'm getting a perfect response from it just the way it is. The speakers are at the optimum height with one sheet. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 2075 Registered: May-06 | Now I get it. However, did you try it with 2 or 3 high? Just might be missing something. If it was better that way you can always drape some complementary fabric over them. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10430 Registered: Feb-05 | No, I didn't try more than just the one at present, might sometime down the road though....never know...lol! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2658 Registered: Jun-07 | This might sound like a silly question but what about Bamboo cutting boards? Any thoughts? Also, if my spikes already sit on hardwood flooring, could the cutting board still help? I am just curious, as I was looking at them the other day for my components. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 843 Registered: Dec-07 | Nick, I had to hunt for this thread because I wanted to reread it. MW can elaborate as he sees fit, but this contains alot of the experimentation. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/529293.html I suspect you would benefit from further isolation with wooden floors, particularly if they are suspended or there is "give" to the wood (ie., laid over elastomeric material). What, if anything, goes between the board and the floor is a matter of experimentation. Personally, I would try it au naturel, then with inexpensive elastomeric material before adding relatively expensive spikes to the board. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10442 Registered: Feb-05 | The Bamboo cutting boards make sense to me Nick. However, if I were already on a hardwood floor with my spikes I'd consider myself where I need to be. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2659 Registered: Jun-07 | Sounds good to me guys. The sound I am getting is dandy the way it is, but you know me, I like to play. Just made myself some sweet Speaker cables, using this design: http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Power/Low-Inductance-DIY-Speaker-Cables/ Going to be testing them this week. Sorry to get off topic. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10444 Registered: Feb-05 | I used JPS for years for interconnects. They were good but not great. What cable did you use? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3412 Registered: May-05 | Nick, I thired a bunch of different things to put my speakers on and came up with the approach that's at the end of this thread - https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/215360.html Its worked better in my room than anything else I've tried, and I tried quaite a few things. Every speaker, floor, room, system, and pair of ears is different, so experiment on! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2660 Registered: Jun-07 | Stu, that looks fantastic. My wife just bought a bunch of those floor thingy ma-bobers too.lol. I am going to steal 8 of them. Art- we have a ton of 16awg single conductor wire here at work. I label on the roll says Belden? I have made two sets now. All at 12 feet. One pair is with 16awg wire and the other pair is with 18awg wire since my runs are short, and my speakers are easy to power. I wanted to experiment to see if 18awg conductor wire would work as good. The 16awg wired cables make for a total of a 10 awg speaker cable. The 18awg wired cable makes for a 14ish awg cable. 16awg conductor wire should lower the resistance, but if I can get the 18awg conductor wire to work as good, there should be benefits to it as well. Time will tell. Fun to play. To add I used 1/4 inch and 1/2 inch heat shrink. The ends are Nakamichi banana plugs. I have ordered TechFlex but right now my cable looks like a hardcore braided bunch of wire. Looks pretty cool the way it is.lol. I used Red and Black. Followed the instructions on that site. Pretty basic. But time consuming braiding all that cable. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10445 Registered: Feb-05 | It is time consuming to braid cable. I've done it with tributaries cable. For me the results weren't what I was looking for. Very happy with the Gutwire Basic 2. If it weren't on sale I doubt I'd be so happy, for the price I paid it really performs...kicked the vdH D352's behind. Retails for twice the price so it ought to (though that often means nothing with cables). The comparably priced vdH is better but I don't have the scratch for that at present. I'm just happy that I don't have to deal with the whole biwiring thing with the DeVore's. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2662 Registered: Jun-07 | lol I hear you Art. My old Paradigms I had to Tri-Wire.blah. Gutwire eh.hmmm I will have to look into that. Thx again. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10460 Registered: Feb-05 | Nice interviews with John DeVore where he talks about everything from speaker design to cables. http://aventhusiast.com/audio/interviews/interview-john-devore-of-devore-fidelit y http://www.onspeakers.com/columnists/onspeakers-staff-columnists/devore-fidelity -audio-interview.html |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 860 Registered: Dec-07 | The Bamboo cutting boards make sense to me Nick. However, if I were already on a hardwood floor with my spikes I'd consider myself where I need to be. Possibly, but maybe not, depending on the structure of the floor. Too many variables for a general statement. Wood over concrete with little resonance, I agree. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10556 Registered: Feb-05 | Sold the R5's today. Very nice couple called and arranged to drive down from Seattle and pick them up. I'll miss those speakers. Viva la apes! |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 2411 Registered: Nov-05 | Good one Art. I sold the DV9500 and Pioneer B-ray player last week. I might have a pair of VDH speaker cables for sale next, depends on the Tara Labs. They arrived this morning and I'll be connecting them soon after some lunch. Have a party for those R5's. BTW - I got Esperanza's cd on the weekend. She's an outstanding talent - the musos are no slouches either. Thanks for the Heads Up (pun intended). |
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