Frank, the Totems...
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12310 Registered: Dec-04 | Frank, and others with Totom Mani 2's I am having a devil of a time getting these to do what is right. The spekers respond and play shy at the most inopportune of musical movements, and i am near fits. I can power the speakers properly with Classe kit. Frank, I know these can do big time better, but what have I missed??? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9541 Registered: Feb-05 | I think Frank was skeptical of the room to start with Nuck. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2559 Registered: Feb-07 | Not happy with the Totems Nuck? You need a Mac to drive them ;-) |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12316 Registered: Dec-04 | Yes, Art, but it looked more promising when the plan came together by not using the front door and using the whole width of the room. I need to treat the room a lot, really. Maybe I get some pics up and we can have a look at the room. I will do that then, I need some opinions. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2584 Registered: Oct-04 | http://www.acousticsciences.com/ |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3652 Registered: Sep-04 | Straight up Nuck, I don't know. Can you be a bit more specific about what's good and what's bad? Also, can you (I know you've photographed everything in the other thread) give us more detail about their approximate positions in relation to the walls, distance apart, toe-in, etc? I know you've gone over much of this in the other thread but let's take a step back and diagnose the problem. So, in summary: 1. Description of problem. How does the sound let you down? What happens? What effects do you perceive (or not)? 2. Location in room, size of room, distance from seating position, etc... Sorry, just want to be thorough. Ta, Frank. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12347 Registered: Dec-04 |  Yeah, I know...but I need a little advise on what colour for the panels on the back walls. I am thinking red and yellow, with gusto! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12348 Registered: Dec-04 | Stupid little pictures! Hold please |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12349 Registered: Dec-04 |  |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12350 Registered: Dec-04 |  |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12351 Registered: Dec-04 | The bass is breaking up. There is no co herence in the music. I have had these speaks all over the place, and out together in the room is pretty good, but no image otherwise. The stand in the middle has to go, I wonder about wall shelves, with the table in promenance? The rear walls are going to be covered soon, even if it is with my own assskin, just to dye it is the question. The front and rear doors are being torn out in the next few weeks, so I figgured it was a good time for a remodel, the sound is not thrilling me...just a half bone. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12352 Registered: Dec-04 |   It gets a little cramped, but I can do European. If JJ tells me to clean up... |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12353 Registered: Dec-04 | The speakers are currently sitting on Missions stands, fully filled, and sitting on 3 lays of 1/2" plywood. I believe the stands to be independant of the carpeted floor and the empty abyss below it. I am able to jack the floor easily under the stands. These are backing 30" from the rear wall, which has full length foam stuff of dubious linearity. Yeah, ok, it's wall mart overnight matress in a roll-up. Presently 24" from the side walls, the open door is because I had to find my camera...always closed, no rattles. The wall of sound will be painted black with the new door, btw, so all you married guys can drool. Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1938 Registered: May-06 | How about auralex on the left window closest to the speakers and close the doors on the right and put auralex ont them too, remove the coffee table, you have a lap for laptop and meals. I cannot make it out but whatever is in front of the right speaker should leave the room with the table. Pull the speakers into the room more and back your chair up some too. Put up some shelves on both side walls and load them up with guy stuff. Check the Belt site to see if Black is really the color you should go. The door may not rattle but it will reflect and cancel your frequencies. So does the flat screen, more auralex or a heavy blanket will help with that. With your penthouse soft focus I cannot decipher the roll of foam. How about some fabric fronted unrolled fiberglass panels strategically placed about the walls and ceiling? If you follow my advice my room might no longer be public enemy number one to the "Wives of eCoustics". LOL |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1939 Registered: May-06 | Then again you could just leave it all alone and enjoy all the hard work and hard cash you spent to completely refurbish the place. Nah! Oh, btw, did you forget I am a married guy??? |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1941 Registered: May-06 | hmmm. I seem to recall Nuck swearing he could not have a room that looked like mine. Might have used the word "ever" too. If you build it they will come? At least I would show up! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2588 Registered: Oct-04 | Nuck, is there a chance they're faulty? |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1942 Registered: May-06 | "The speakers are currently sitting on Missions stands, fully filled, and sitting on 3 lays of 1/2" plywood." Did you use shelf liner between the plywood pieces to bond them together? How difficult would it be to sieve half of the sand from the stands? Oh, don't go getting' pissy or anything thinking I'm being critical, as: "Maybe I get some pics up and we can have a look at the room. I will do that then, I need some opinions." |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3654 Registered: Sep-04 | I have only ever used Mani-2s with their matching stands which are quite unique in that they weigh a ton, far more than any other stand I've used. It may be (but not sure about this) that you may be getting a lack of bass definition and control because of the stands. But it could equally be an unhappy combination in your room. It's quite cluttered which will drain midrange frequencies more than the bass giving a loss of 'presence'. I'd also play around a bit with toe-in. Although mine are not toed in at all, I know one person who had to toe in the speakers quite a bit (20 degrees or so) to achieve the best sound. Distance from back and rear walls seem good to me. I can't imagine you wanting the speakers further in the room somehow. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9548 Registered: Feb-05 | Since you have all the flexibility in the world (read no wife to piss on your parade) perhaps trying a new arrangement. How about the equipment on the wall to the right between the 2 doors and the speakers on either side of the left corner facing into the room from that angle making sure that the corner is treated. Perhaps the angle might give you better results. Put your listening chair near the door closest to us facing the opposite corner. Heck anything's worth a try. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9555 Registered: Feb-05 | "(read no wife to piss on your parade)" I apologize for how that is stated...just plain wrong...sorry. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12361 Registered: Dec-04 | It's ok Art,I got the idea. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12364 Registered: Dec-04 | I do like what the speakers sound like but I cant get any image, or depth., The tall stand in the front center is certainly not helping, and I may chop that down this weekend. The one I am having built will look different, and lower. I figgured it was covered, so I wired accordingly. There are split plugs under the side window as well. I could move the power pretty quickly. DIY panels are in store, on the cheap, just to get an idea. The big space at the back door will be panels on each wall, I think. Will work on it. Cheers! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12365 Registered: Dec-04 | Art...If I sit in front of the window and have the speakers in front of the doors...I could use the open doors as dampers(or tuners ) for the rear firing speakers. Hmmm I have done that years ago, worked well for tuning bass. I always left the door open into a small cluttered room. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 566 Registered: Jul-07 | Nuck, I would empty the room, except for the stereo gear. Just push everything out in a hallway or something for a bit. Try a basic config that gets the speakers 6' apart or so, and your listening chair about the same from each speaker with nothing in between (sort of a near field setup). If imaging and image depth are the issue, pull the speakers away from the front wall by another foot or so, and slowly toe them in. Can you adjust the rake ? If you're still not getting any image density, specificity, or depth, you may need more diffusion. Natural diffusors are hard to get out of bookshelves and LP racks. They're only so-so really. You may need to build or buy something. It's all in the room setup and speaker placement somehow (which you already know). But I really would empty out anything that isn't nailed down as a starting point. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9567 Registered: Feb-05 | Good idea about moving things out Chris. try different things Nuck....let's see some pics of a different configuration...try something similar to what I outlined just for poops and giggles. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12368 Registered: Dec-04 | 2 chairs, 2 little tables and a lamp...yeah, I can move those. The stand weighs about 300 lbs, however, and is going to be downsized quite a bit soon. I am also considering downsizing to simplify. http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/128223-mcintosh_ma6900_integrated_amplifi er_200wpc_wobm_in_great_condition_/ |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12369 Registered: Dec-04 | From my listening experience, I find the Mac to give great potential for depth and not so much width to the soundstage. When the Totems are pushed back, as they are now, the stage is a bit taller as well, but imaging suffers due to the tall stand in the middle. In about 3 weeks, the whole space is going to be ripped up again, as I am having insulation put in, so 100 holes to fill in the walls. sigh. The walls need refinishing anyhow, the reno was done very quickly with this in mind. Without an amp on the floor, a shorter stand and the VPI on it's own shelf (location to be determined) and a few panels on the shiniest surfaces, things will have to be revisited again. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2051 Registered: Jun-05 | Nuck,i think the stands may be the culprit,you really need some heavy heavy Stands.I found the Model 1 and the Mani-2 to be really tricky to setup,especially for image depth.Heavy stands are a must because of their rather lively cabinet design internal to exterally,because of innner cabinet paste which is Boracusilate or something like that it tranfers all the energy of the interior of the cabinet to the outside of the cabinet,and you also need heavy stands because of the driver design,the dyn or HiVi drivers have tons of midbass energy from around 200htz to 80 htz which is the region that excites resonances the most,so yeah get some heavy stands,you've already made a large investment dont cheap out with puny stands. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12378 Registered: Dec-04 | I dig, TW and Frank, but just can't get the T4L stands. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12379 Registered: Dec-04 | Rather lively is being understated, TW, these are a wonderful speaker, just to be tamed just so... |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1948 Registered: May-06 | Chris, with the albums I have in my IKEA racks I stagger their depth on the shelf by about 4"-6". I also leave gaps here and there. They have worked very well for diffusion for me as well as getting my vinyl off of the floor. I do not contest that purchasing engineered diffusion should provide better results, just that saying that how I have mine is not too bad at all. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2505 Registered: Jun-07 | Hey Nuck brogther happy May 24 weekend. Personally I am as drunk as s kunk. F3434234324 it. Listen, the mani\s are great speakers. But if it takes this much dedicated room treatment to have a million dollor speaker souind good then dgsdsdfds sell them and buy something that isn't a blow horn pain in my balls to setup. If you want to continue to change your room 9 times to make these slues soujd good then thats cool I will understand. Sloppy bass is usually a cause of incorrect stands like TW said. Or maybe try them off those blocks of wood? You probabl already tried this. Anway, im oing to go pass out happy may 24 u sexy beast white pimple man.LOL Nuck is the man. Maybe there arnyt for u. A lot of people love totem, a lot hate them. Maybe you hate them. PEace canadian man, Love ya. |
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Silver Member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 312 Registered: Aug-06 | LMAO. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12382 Registered: Dec-04 | Nick, thank you for the kind words. I am going to make a shorter stand first of all, the tall stand is taking up too much space, but it was free and available. My buddy will make an oak stand if I draw it out properly. Continuing to chase that Mac 6900, but no response anymore, so I think it is gone. Looking at DIY panels for the brightest open spots in the room, too. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2572 Registered: Feb-07 | Nick sounds like he's having a good May Two-Four! lol. Peace out Nick. Hope you don't feel too rough today. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9573 Registered: Feb-05 | LOL!!! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12384 Registered: Dec-04 | For everyone who does not know, the May24 long weekend officially marks the start of gardening season up here. In fact, it will be next weekend when the moon changes phase, then the liklihood of frost is supposedly gone. We had frost overnight, with lows of 2c. I brought the geraniums in, just in case. A little background on Nick's plight so as to understand his, and our collective Canadian excitement. PS Nick, you are not going to get pregnant together with a whiskey dick. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9574 Registered: Feb-05 | Lawd ha mercy.... TMI! |
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Gold Member Username: StryvnWisconsin Post Number: 1128 Registered: Dec-06 | Nick must really like gardening. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12385 Registered: Dec-04 | Pile on the rabbit! Nick you got air down there? |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 568 Registered: Jul-07 | Nuck, what do you have between the stands and the bottom of your speakers ? |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1950 Registered: May-06 | "For everyone who does not know, the May24 long weekend officially marks the start of gardening season up here. " Can't wait to see what the actual May 24 weekend has to offer... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9575 Registered: Feb-05 | It offers 5 days off for me. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2506 Registered: Jun-07 | "PS Nick, you are not going to get pregnant together with a whiskey dick." LOL!!! Good point Nuck. A 40 pounder of Old Forty Creek.mmMMmmMmmm Canadian Whiskey at its best. Wah, what a night. Is it normal to be waking up at 6pm at night? Nope. Oh well, time to shower and do it all over again. When is Memorial Day this year? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9582 Registered: Feb-05 | U.S. May 25th. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2507 Registered: Jun-07 | FWIW. I love those Mani's. Hopefully something gives for you soon Nuck. Classe is awesome gear. Top notch for sure. Widely used to power the big dog B&W speakers in recording studio's and audio labs. But could it be simply a synergy mismatch with the Totems Nuck? I am just throwing ideas out there, not saying it is at all. I have never heard the combo before. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2508 Registered: Jun-07 | Ah nice. One week after ours. That is cool. Usually ours falls on that weekend but fell a well early this year. Next year its the 24th for us. Thanks Art. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2576 Registered: Feb-07 | Old Forty Creek... well done Nick. A friend of mine gave me a bottle of that for my 40th. Good stuff man. Nuck, seriously... all those Totems need is some good Mac lovin'. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 770 Registered: Jun-08 | Bryston power on the Totem's would work out very well...4B-SST squared. Actually, it's probably the room that's the issue. Can you all the gear to a freinds place / another room to see if they sound better with more room. Have you tried an email to Totem? Would they share suggestions on optimum room size / dimensions and / or comment on the Mani-2 to Classe pairing?} |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12392 Registered: Dec-04 | Chris, presently the stands are sitting on 3 pieces of 1/2" plywoob, with no insulators between the layers. I did this to brind the small stand spikes off of the carpet, and that change brought some focus to the bass response. Nick, although I have not read or heard this combo before either, I don't see why the Classe should not be up to snuff. But I may be hearing why? The Classe amp is offering lots of bass control, but the speakers are just not getting the message somehow, and yes, new speaker leads are in the mail, I am antsy to hear what the Xindak SQ-3 runs will do here. I am still working on DIY panels that will work, its kinda murky out there on the subject and available materials that are not considered an investment. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12397 Registered: Dec-04 | My cousin suggested that I look for somw reprints of canvas from the artist Cassius Coolidge. I had to look up the artist in question... http://www.dogsplayingpoker.org/ perhaps also a sweaty Elvis Or a crying clown... |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2509 Registered: Jun-07 | Nice stuff Nuck. There is no doubt in my mind that Classe is top notch and should be easily able to power anything that is thrown at it. I was just wondering if maybe it could be a synergy mix up. Kind of like using Bryston power with PSB speakers or something like that. Or Rotel and Monitor Audio speakers. The new leads should bring some improvements I hope. Do you have any other amps you can try? Even though a second room amp would not be up to par with the Classe it may give you the idea if the Classe just doesn't see eye to eye with a Totem speaker. Also to add, if you have a local Home Sense or JYSK store near you Nuck they have amazing canvas paintings in there as well. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12399 Registered: Dec-04 | Nick, all I have handy is a Rotel 5 channel amp, which I am a bit loathe to try, and I am short of cables for bi-amping. I will look at some panels when I get back next weekend, and will continue the sound panel search online till then. Thanks Nick. Go for Kool-aid today, huh? |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2510 Registered: Jun-07 | LOL yeah I just chilled last night and watched a movie with the wife. Woke up with a hardcore headache. Chased a beer then a coffee and cooked up some bacon and eggs. That fixed me up. I am not typically a drinker, so when I do, it hits me extra hard.lol. I stuck with Doctor Pepper. Your on the road eh? I will be this week as I head down to Bombardier/Wabtec to look at their new front panel designs to hold our Mobile DVR's we build for them. * So excited, not* |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12400 Registered: Dec-04 | Indiana this week. I drove north from Indy, passed through Kokomo,IN. This place used to have a Delphi(Delco) electronics plane. There is also a Chrysler transmission plant here. Both are deserted. Nobody even cuts the grass. It breaks my heart a bit to see such a thriving town been laid to waste, I passed a liquor store that was boarded up! The guy with the Mac is still mailing, may get the deal done this week. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1953 Registered: May-06 | Hope |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12404 Registered: Dec-04 | One fella wanted to trade a 4b st mint amp in partial trade, but I think I have to continue on my own nonsensical path.... |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2588 Registered: Feb-07 | Buying a Mac is not nonsensical Nuck. Moving to a Bryston from Classe is probably a little bit of a sideways move (as much as I love Bryston). |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2511 Registered: Jun-07 | Depends on what you consider sideways.lol. Buying a 4b? Yup probably sideways. Buying two 28bsst2's for 14 grand a pop would probably be a considerable upgrade.lol. ;) |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12410 Registered: Dec-04 | The Mac is the target, I know the sound, but not in my room. The dude will bring it to me to try, but not to see if I like it, just to hear it work in all functions. Cash will change hands. No word on the Classe ad. Dan, you need the Classe preamp for a great deal! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2605 Registered: Oct-04 | I have heard the Mani-2 sigs with an MA7000. In the right room the combo will make your jaw drop. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12411 Registered: Dec-04 | I think so too, CM. First time I heard the Totems were with Mac power, but I didn't see what, I was into the speakers and the music. The room is still the issue, but to make the room work better for music, and for like, living, I want to get smaller, and the Mac seems to be my solution. At issue will be my advanced listening. It was a long time ago that I first heard the setup, and my ears are no younger. The high frequencies have nodded-off another notch, and I have always had a high-tone loss, from birth (Or 5, first test). I am a bit loathe to give up the high response, but if I cannot hear it, the WTF? The music is in the mids, and I know what to expect from the Mac, and the Totems, too. When I get back, I will do the deal if it is still there, and that seems likely. I will have my ears cleaned and my hearing checked again, as a reference to what I am looking for. Nothing like setting things up and making it too bright or loud for anyone else to enjoy, although nobody else is there to hear it, LOL! I don't think Mac will do that in any case, I have never ever heard that opinion of a Mac based kit, nor with the speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2606 Registered: Oct-04 | Sounds like a plan. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9592 Registered: Feb-05 | Sounds like your on track...good goin' on the Mac. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2512 Registered: Jun-07 | Awesome Nuck. Sounds like a great combo. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 740 Registered: Jan-05 | Looks pretty tidy to be honest Nuck! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12420 Registered: Dec-04 | I cleaned up for the photo, JJ, from your advise and pics |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2594 Registered: Feb-07 | Nuck didn't want to be chastised. He put away all the empties and "magazines". |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2515 Registered: Jun-07 | LOL!!!!!! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12422 Registered: Dec-04 | Seems to still be on the go, I may see the bloke and the amp when I get back from Indianapolis, St Louis(now) South Carolina and Pittsburgh on Friday. I left the place tidy for company on the weekend, she likes music too. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2596 Registered: Feb-07 | New friend Nuck? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12424 Registered: Dec-04 | Out of towner, drops by. Nice girl. She will enjoy my enthusiasm with the new amp, if it happens. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2597 Registered: Feb-07 | That's a good find. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12426 Registered: Dec-04 | Thats a good friend. |
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