NAD 752 V1.22 what are the improvements?
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| I finally thought I had the latest revision of the NAD T752 since I received mine two weeks ago. I asked NAD Canada and was told 1.20 was the latest. Now I find out there is a V1.22 out. I hope someone can tell me what the changes are and what the problems were with the v1.20 so I can decide whether it's worth getting the upgrade. TC |
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| Let me update everyone on what's happening to my NAD this evening. Hawk, this may be expecially of interest to you since you have been following my adventure. I have just added a center speaker and sub so I have changed the speaker setting to small via OSD. Now when I turn off the receiver and turn it back on, I intermittantly loose either the fronts or the surrounds. By turning it back off and then on again, they magically reappear. This is NAD #3 for me and I am livid. This is the very problem I had with NAD #2 and was told it was my banana plugs. I will be calling NAD Canada tomorrow and ask for some form of correction. I'm going to insist on either a NAD 753 or a 762 or a full refund. I have never purchased a more defective product in my life. They certainly sound great, but the sound is overshadowed by the sound of packing tape and expressive expletives. TC |
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Hawk | Keep me posted--I can appreciate your frustration. |
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| I am going to keep an up to minute record here of what's happening in hopes of sparing others the same experience. I have contacted NAD and they have asked me to reset the system by pressing both the "video" and "tone defeat" buttons simultaneaously for 5 seconds to perform a full system reset. The display is to show "AH RESET" when I am done. I am then to turn off the receiver using the hard push button and then turn it back on. The next step after that will be to systematically turn off any unused speakers (back surround) and size the other speakers accordingly since the settings I have input will have been lost with the reset. I will be talking to the fellow on his cell phone when I get home after work. I also asked him about the humming noise I get if I select DVD or CD input and no disc is playing. This is only noticable when the volumn gets over -15db. This will be the second hurdle. NAD has been very empathetic to the situation and helpful so far. TC |
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John Allen | TC. That is a reboot. You will lose all speaker settings, channel delays, stored radio presets etc., restoring default settings. I am an NAD advocate, but keen to really know the score; will tune in to your bulletins. Good luck. I know the feeling. Years ago I actually drove to a factory with a defective turntable, left it on the reception desk, and refused to go away until I got a replacement. If the NAD people are helpful on the phone, that is a good sign. |
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| Thanks John: I appreciate the words of encouragement. I don't mind the loss of presets, it would be a small price if this is fixed. I'll keep everyone posted. I intend to give an accurate account of every step so everyone will "really know the score". I will be phoning the fellow from NAD in one hour so stay tuned.... TC |
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| As promised the fellow from NAD was available via cell phone to talk me through the reset at the appointed time. After the reset, I feel certain that the little squeek that comes from the speakers when changing the volume decreased so it is barely perceptable. It didn't bother me before anyway. All of the surrounds work, however, as I previously mentioned, this is an intermittent problem so I'll need to test it for some time. The most interesting discovery is as follows. When listening to an analog input or a digital input inwhich the source is not on (the receiver cannot find a digital source) an approx. 1KHz hum can be heard from all speakers when in surround mode with the volume turned up above -15db. If I select "Stereo", the hum disappears. The hum was load enough and clear enough for the fellow from NAD to hear clearly over the phone. He was at a loss to explain it and will speak with the engineers in the morning. In order to eliminate input from other sources, I unpluged any analog source cables, turned off every breaker in the house except for the power running the NAD which was on its own dedicated power line. This made no difference. I am curious whether anyone else can duplicate this hum on their system. NAD has been very helpful and deserves to be recognized for that. Let's hope we can solve the hum and also that the surrounds continue to work. I'll report back what the engineers from NAD have to say tomorrow. TC |
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Hawk | TC: Your problem really highlights how complicated these things are, with the various microprocessors and software EPROMs that drive the electronics--something that is easy to forget. I have no doubt this is why your receiver doesn't hum when it is in "Stereo" mode. I believe that "Stereo" bypasses all of the signal processing. I am watching this carefullly--but I agree that NAD deserves a measure of respect for dealing with the problem. Good luck! |
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John Allen | TC, Not being finnicky, but wanting to know what your hear, 1 kHz is more of a peep than a hum. Time signal "pips" on BBC are 1 kHz; sorry I don't know a graphic N American example. My guess is you have a hum that is line frequency (60 Hz in N. America and Japan) and its harmonics. If so, that suggests RF interference from fields generated by the mains supply, or else bad grounding somewhere. Why it should be on surround only (EARS?) I do not know. If it is really a 1 kHz peep-like "hum" then I am lost for suggestions. Is the hum still there when digital input is getting a signal? Do you hear it on FM radio? Did you try unplugging digital sources, too? Also the FM antenna? The video out can also be a source of interference, are you using that?. Does it hum with no connections at all, just speakers? If you disconnect speakers, do you hear it on headphones? (The speaker terminal are a bit close togother and it would be easy to have strand of copper touch the casing without knowing it). If it hums with no inputs or signal outputs at all, and it is not any part of the speaker circuit, then it is surely a receiver problem. However, if it does not hum under those conditions, add back sources and outputs one at a time, to try to localize the problem. (PS ramble; I had forgotten my run-in with the turntable. It was not the reception desk, it was the factory floor.... ) |
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ng | TC I am also awaiting NAD #3 and have been promissed V1.22, will be watching your progress as I too am beginning to think that if NAD don't sort this out soon, they must supply a model that works!! I agree that they are very helpful, but the fact remains that we have spent good money on these products and they should be free from defects right out the box, not after months of exchanges etc.. From my side, their only saving grace is the excellent sound quality. |
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| Hawk: You are right that stereo mode bypasses the CPU processing, I have been told this by NAD. I believe the problem is in the digital processing and not the analog section. John: I am guessing at the frequency. It sounds higher that 60 or 120Hz. It may be a harmonic or I may not be judging the frequency correct. It is definately lower than the BBC "ping". The frequency changes slightly between AUDIO (CD) in and VIDEO (DVD) in, wierd, and it doesn't sound like just one nice (or not so nice) sinusoidal. Sounds more like a composite signal. Unfortunately I am flying to Germany on Saturday for a week or I would have brought my scope home from work. (I'm and electrical engineer). If I unplug the antenna and turn off FM mute then there is too much static. If I leave FM mute on then I hear nothing, ie no noise. It's on all surround modes including EARS. I have no video components connected. Removed FM antenna as well, noise still present with AUDIO or VIDEO inputs with surround. Since I have nothing connected except the speakers and the NAD is not grounded, I don't see the possibility of a ground loop. If the noise was being generated from an outside source, or from a ground loop etc, I believe it would be present in the stereo mode as well. The fact that it isn't makes me believe that it's not coming from either the pre-amp or amp section. I suspect that this noise is generated by the digital processor, but I am ahead of myself and should wait for the feedback from the NAD engineers. I've read some other threads from people complaining about NAD hum or buzz and I wonder if they have experienced the same thing. Thanks for the support Hawk and John. I'll let you know what the engineers have to say. They will get back to me by noon today which is 6:00 p.m. Greenwich time. TC PS. Picked up the ASP400 and ASC1 from a dealer for $495 CDN for the two of them. (They are a lot cheaper in Canada) I read your recomendation for the HSU Hawk which I agree with, (even phoned API and spoke with Joe Frazer, Athena marketing fellow about it.), but at this price, I had little to lose. |
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John Allen | TC, Great, thanks. You obviously know what to do, and my comments must have seemed obvious, even patronizing. I did not know you were an electrical engineer! As an excuse, let me just say some people would never accept the problem was not the speakers, because that is where the unwanted sound comes from... It does indeed sound like the processor. I will come back here later to read your latest bulletin. Best wishes |
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John Allen | TC, If you have a moment, one word from an Elec Eng would be worth something here:- https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/5658.html I suppose it's like admitting to being a doctor, and people then telling you about their medical conditions... My opinion is that dealers often spread misunderstanding, and I am inclinded not to trust them. The first post there seems like a clear case. But it is hard to argue with "it is all much more complicated than you think", especially if you are an amateur. |
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| John: Please don't confuse having a degree with having knowledge about all things electrical or electronic. It just means I didn't sleep for four years. And please never feel that you are patronizing anyone. This bulletin board will loose all value if people are frightened to ask or suggest something to avoid hurting someone's ego. Your questions were valuable to me as I rechecked some of the suggestions to make sure I tried every combination. OK, enough of that. I looked at the thread. I would say your answer was correct as far as increasing the impedance of the speakers. Can't say I agree with the concept as half your power is wasted in heat. The resistors will have to be of a high wattage to survive (1/2 the amp output per channel). The basic impedance of a single speaker coil, or any inductor for that matter, can be defined as Z = (R2 + wL2)1/2. (these are supposed to be squared symbols and the 1/2 is square root) Now given that w = 2 pi F you can see that as the frequency increases, the impedance will increase. Knowing this, speaker manufacturers may add resistors, capacitors and possibly inductors in the crossover network in the attempt to maintain a relatively constant impedance with frequency change. The R value is not effected by the frequency, so your answer was technically correct. I am not a speaker manufacturer so anyone can feel free to correct me at any time. I hope this has helped. TC |
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John Allen | TC, Many thanks. All points taken. Yes, the resistors should be almost capable of heating the room. I have directed the questioner, named Terry, here: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/5658.html |
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| Right on time the fellow from NAD has phoned back. Unfortunately, they cannot duplicate the problem in their labs and need the unit back. Time is running out for a receiver exchange or even shipping before I depart. The conversation was left with the fellow from NAD possibly meeting me at the airport to pick up my receiver, since it's half way between where I live and his plant. He will call back later. Again, although this experience has been less than enjoyable, I must give NAD credit for the customer service I am receiving. TC |
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John Allen | TC, Thanks again. OK, there is clearly a problem with the NAD receiver. It must be a real pain. All I will say is, you are getting attention and customer service you would not get from some other manufacturers we might name. Keep with it, and please keep us informed. John |
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| I recently got my new NAD T752 replaced for the same problems here in Norway, only to find that the new one had exactly the same bugs. I have written to the store, and I am waiting to hear from them any day now. My receiver is version 1.22 A7, and it exhibits all the same problems: loud noise and hum in analog surround mode, and low noise and hum in stereo. It works perfectly well if a digital signal is selected AND present. Another peculiarity in addition to the ones you mention, is that the radio can be heard among the noises in analog DVD mode if the radio has recently been used. NAD has been helpful in replying to my email about this matter, but has not yet been able to supply a solution. I have also asked the reseller to let me switch to a T753 whenever it becomes available. Good luck, and please post any progress you might have! Another thread in on this server is on to the same problem: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/2934.html Lasse |
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Anonymous | The T753 will be the one to get. I have a feeling that NAD will finaly "get it right" with the upcoming new receivers. If you want the T753 you'll probably have to pay the difference in cost...$100 I think it is. |
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| Thanks for your input Laz. In an endevour to gather as much information as possible, may I ask for the serial number of your receiver? This may help to identify a production run that exibits similar problems. I too could hear the radio on mine when in digital video mode; but very faintly and only with the volume up to >+15dB. I didn't see this as as problem as I considered it to be inaudable under normal listening conditions. Thanks for the other thread, the more information shared, the better informed everyone will be. And the better chance we will have of resolving this problem. My receiver is currently at NAD being checked by the engineers there. I will keep you posted. Again, I must state that NAD has, to date, been very empathetic and helpful towards solving the problem to my satisfaction. A fellow from NAD personally picked up my receiver and I want to give them full credits for the customer service I have received so far. TC |
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| I have sent the serial numbers for both receivers to your email address, and I look forward to hearing what they find out! |
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| OK, here's the long awaited answer. I have been told that the noise was present during the lab test so the engineers were able to find and repair the problem. It seems that there was a running production change to the OSD board. For some unknown reason, even though I have a newer model, my receiver had the old OSD board installed. I have been told that the board has been changed and the problem is no longer there. The firmware also was updated to the latest rev V1.22. I have been told that rev V1.22 would have no effect on the T752 as this rev was implemented only to address a volume control chip incompatability on the T762 which shares the same firmware. The fellow from NAD will be delivering the receiver to me personally tomorrow. I'll report back on how it works after I have the chance to connect it up at home. My conclusions to date are as follows: 1) I believe the complexity of receivers today far surpasses anything from the past. Manufacturers not only have to create the same wonderful sounding system as they have in the past, but must now cope with the digital processing of new surround protocals in very short time frames. 2) Understanding that no manufacturer is immune to developmental bugs, the true measure of a manufacturer is shown in the steps they take to correct a problem once they are made aware of it. 3) Most dealers cannot fix these problems. They may not even be aware that the problem has been identified before as a production problem. All they can do is replace the unit. Unless you take the problem to the manufacturer, or a designate, it cannot be fixed. 4) I do not believe it is fair to speak negatively about NAD,or any other manufacturer, for having teething problems with their systems. The caviet here is, THEY MUST ADDRESS AND CORRECT ANY PROBLEMS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. If they don't, then they deserve the negative attention for the way they are treating the customer. 5) The customer service I have received from NAD has been OUTSTANDING. I have mentioned it a number of times during this thread and I will mention it here again. 6) Assuming that the system works well when I get it home and I have no further problems, then I would purchase NAD again. If it doesn't work...well that would not be a good thing. TC |
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Brad C. | Thx, nice tidbit about what the newest version of nad firmware does... I have a 752 and was wondering what the newer firmware version did... Guess I don't have to worry about it... |
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John A. | TC, Fantastic story. Thanks for sharing what you learned. I agree with your interim conclusions. What is very impressive here is someone takes responsibilty for your problem and gets action to put it right AND explains what the problem really is. So often dealer blames manufacturer and vice versa, or they both say the problem is with you, and you are left with a peice of junk, and the conviction that the item was never manufactured by sentient beings in the first place. Really you are doing what a good dealer would for a less knowledgable customer. What the frequency of good dealers is, I don't know. Please keep posting. |
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| Hi! I've read this thread and I hope that someone can give me an answer to my problem also!  I have a NAD T742 and when I play movies with DTS or Dolby Digital i get a constant signal (hum)from my right speaker. It disapears when I listen to music or radio. This is my second NAD t742 with the same problem. I asked the people in the store where I bought the reciever and they had never heard about my problem before. The signal (hum) has the same volume all the time, it doesnt get louder when turn up the volume. I tried a firends dvd player just to see if the problem was in my pioneer dv454 but it wasnt the dvd. I also tried to switch speakers and cables but this didnt help either. Sorry for my english! |
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John A. | Peter, You write good English. If the people in the store have never heard of your problem before, then they should thank you for telling them something they did not previously know. And they should fix your problem. That is their responsibility. Otherwise, why do they ask payment for selling goods they did not make? If they don't want to fix your problem, go direct to NAD, perhaps through your local distributor, and tell them the dealer doesn't care about problems with NAD products, and accepts no responsibility. Then ask them what they can do. They might ask if the receiver is still under warranty. TCS got some action. I think you will, too. Don't worry about your English. A hum is the same thing in any language. It should not be there. It should be put right. |
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| I've spent the last four hours trying to find a problem with my repaired NAD and am here to say that I am very happy. I will list what I have found different after the repairs for completeness of this thread. Please understand, any deficiencies mentioned are a result of a focused attempt to find them. I can safely say that I would never have noticed them otherwise. There is a slight hum when the volume is up over +10dB and no source is connected to the analog input. This is minimal and certainly never going to bother me. The surrounds are all working well, but as mentioned before, this was an intermittent problem so time will tell. I have tried to detect the delay at the beginning of a song when playing a cd via a digital input with my dvd player and I can't find any. I thought I could notice it before, but it seems to be gone now. The audio "click" during the adjustment of the volume control is so inaudable now as to be considered negligable. Unless something appears in the future, I am very satisfied with this product now and I think I'd like to spend some time enjoying the sound of my receiver. Thanks to everyone who has been followed this thread and a special thanks to those who have commented. I hope it's been of some help. TC |
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John A. | TC, Wonderful. Thanks for all the details and eventual good news. Sometime, try a CD with digital connection after playing a DVD on the same input. That seemed to produce the play-delay glitch on which several people commented. What a pleasure to read your bulletins. Now enjoy the music and movies! John |
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Hawk | TC: I want to thank you for such a complete chronology of what the problems were and how NAD addressed them. I think it is very helpful as we all need to know what problems may exist and how they should be addressed. It has been a great help to me. I fully agree with your four conclusions as well. I glad you have been satisfied by your receiver's manufacturer. The service was outstanding. Enjoy! |
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| Thanks guys. John, I played a DVD and then replaced it with a CD when I went hunting for the delay. I'll look again, but if it's this hard to find, I doubt if it will bother me. As a result of NAD's service I have purchased a T532 DVD player. (I am standing behind my statement to purchase from NAD again if I was satisfied.) I had resently purchased a Panasonic F65 which will now be regulated to another room. I am amazed that there can be that much difference in picture and sound quality! The question I have is regarding set-up. It seems to me that I should be using bit stream and not Dolby for the digital audio output since my receiver can decode DTS. Also, I haven't been able to find in the manual where it explains when to set the sampling to 48K and when to set it to 96K. I understand what the sampling rates mean, however, I am uncertain why I would ever set it to 48K. Perhaps this is for use with a receiver that only samples at 48K? I have set it to 96K but some advice would be appreciated. TC |
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John Allen | TC, Thanks again. That seems to solve the delayed-play glitch. It never bothered me, anyway. Maybe I can help with the NAD T532 DVD player. I have had one for about six months, and tried most things it will do. I agree with your conclusions and will explain why. Let me first say that I went the other way from you. I bought the T532, originally to add DVD to my trusty stereo system. I was so pleased with it, I bought an NAD receiver a few months later, to get real surround "home theatre". The model I bought is the T752's precursor, the T760 (a good deal from a shop that took it part-ex for an HK of some sort). The T760 has 5 x 60 W, DTS, Dolby Digital, EARS and Prologic (not II). The sound in stereo, my benchmark, with those two units (T532 + T760) is extroardinary. I was not looking to upgrade my stereo system, just get DVD. But upgraded stereo is what I got, and a very big upgrade, too. To address your question. The T532 has a "Settings" screen. One of the menus is "Digital Audio Output". I agree the Manual is not entirely clear what the options are, and what they are for. The section is p. 13 of the pdf manual I am consulting now, headed "Sound". You have three options: DOLBY DIGITAL/PCM; Stream/PCM; PCM Here are my conclusions, after trying a lot of things. DOLBY DIGITAL/PCM. A DVD with Dolby Digital plays that by default. You also get digital stereo if it is on the disc. You don't get DTS. My verdict with your system, and mine; forget this one. Stream/PCM. With this setting, you can play a DVD with either Dolby Digital or DTS, depending on which you choose from the disc's set-up menu. Note, also, the T532's remote control has an "Audio" button which, on some DVD discs at least, allows you to change between DD and DTS "on the fly". With this setting, you also get digital stereo if the disc has it. Stream/PCM is my preferred setting, and where my player is, always, by default. PCM. On this setting, you get DTS, but not Dolby Digital. this is because DTS is in PCM format, DD isn't, as you know. If you choose "Dolby Digital" for play with this setting, you get digital two-channel stereo, instead. This got me confused when I was debating on the merits of DVD-Audio on another thread. With a DVD-Audio disc (get one!), my guess is the two-channel stereo is a down-sampled stream intended for playing DVDs in stereo, i.e. is the same signal the player gives to the two-channel analogue output, and is what I was hearing before I bought my receiver. The alternative explanation is that this stereo is the authentic "DVD-Audio" track in PCM at up to 192 kHz, but down-sampled. I wish it were so, but I think not, because standard DD-only discs still play stereo with this setting, and they have no PCM track at all. I think. Mind, the stereo they play sounds pretty good to me. Another setting pane under "Digital Audio Output" menu is "Sample Freq." The manual I have is clear on this one:- "If your receiver or amplifier is NOT capable of handling 96KHz signals, select 48KHz. When this choice is made, this unit will automatically convert any 96KHz signals to 48KHz so your system can decode them. If your receiver or amplifier is capable of handling 96KHz signals, select 96KHz". Your T752 is capable of 96 kHz, so you chose correctly. You loose nothing playing a 48 kHz disc with this setting. The control is there in case you have a lesser receiver which will not accept 96 kHz. Leave it on 96 kHz. Only DTS reaches that sampling frequency, but never mind, you will need it, if you like sound quality. Also, my guess is that the NAD T512 DVD player does not have the 96 kHz option. The manual is generic for these two models. I think you did right to get the T532; that and the T512 are outwardly identical, but one big difference is the quality of the DACs, and I think this is where the T532 presents the 96 kHz option, as well as generally giving better sound. I opened a thread, and closed it, by boring people to tears, on DVD-Audio. "Full" DVD-Audio spec for two-channel says "up to 192 kHz, 24 bit". For 5.1 mutichannel it says "up to 96 kHz, 24 bit". For multichannel, therefore, the T532 equals DVD-Audio spec, when playing DTS. Dolby Digital never reaches it on any player; it just does not have that resolution. There is usually a difference in the packing algorithm between DTS and the PCM stream from a "true" DVD-Audio track, but DVD-Audio spec does not insist on the what the DVD-Audio affectionados believe to be the "true" version (Meridian Lossless Packing). DTS packing claims to be lossless, anyway. I won't go on and on, yet again, about this, but will give the links to the threads to sign off. But do try a DVD-Audio disc on your new system if you want to see what it is capable of. I don't know what sort of music you like, but Naxos have a stunningly good, so far small, range of inexpensive DVD-Audio discs. Hope this helps! If you have any comments, I would be delighted to know. If so, perhaps we should start another thread (?) though I will certainly come back here, too. Your original problem seems to be sorted out. What a pleasure. All the best. Further reading (if this isn't enough!) What's the best dvd to test out my new system? What does "DVD-audio" mean here? |
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| Thanks John: One last question before creating a new thread. Will the player automatically select the correct mode ie: DTS or DD to match the recording on the DVD, or will I have to select it manually. TC |
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John A. | TC, You do not have to select manually, but it can be useful. The player detects available formats and selects automatically. Where there is a choice, its default selection is Dolby Digital. I prefer DTS, if present, which I choose from the disc's start menu. It is often under "languages" I don't know why. As I said, on some discs you can also instruct the player to switch surround formats. On others, you have to go back the DVD disc's own menu, select a different "language", and start the disc again. I am happy to stay on this thread if you prefer since we are deep into NAD-specific territory. The general issues about surround formats etc. may be for another thread, I am undecided. John |
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Anonymous | You fellas must "REALLY" like the way the NAD sounds to put up with all of this. To me its like having a $100,000 Ferrari thats always parked because it never runs... it must be a labor of love, good luck |
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| Hi Anon: I certainly like the way NAD sounds, that is true, however, I believe NAD knows full well that if I have another problem, they, and everyone else, will hear about it loud and clear. The power of the internet is not something that can be ignored by manufacturers. One unhappy customer does not just tell two or three of their friends, they post the message where potentially millions can see it. The very fact that you are reading these threads means you are probably seeking information on the performance, reliabilty, or functionality of products before you purchase. These threads have the power to significantly sway a consumer either in favour of, or against, a certain manufacturer. What once was "buyer beware" has now become "manufacturer beware". I believe that it is important to document events as accurately and unemotionally as possible and to present the facts as they are to the masses. This is what I tried to do here. I have been very understanding and complimentary towards NAD to date as I believe, for all the reasons I mentioned, it was merited in this case. But it is important to realise, that if NAD had chosen not to deal with my problem, my comments would have been very different. TC |
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John A. | Correct, TC. Anonymous, the last stuff was the details of how to set up the Audio on a DVD player. Write all that down for any other brand and it will look just as complicated. Surround sound is not "click and play" on any model. TC's story of the hum on his NAD is a good reason for getting one. The manufacturer or his local distributor took responsibility when the unit had a fault. Other posts and threads here are full of stories where the customer is left with a defective unit and no support. A responsible consumer should always kick up a fuss if he does not get what is promised. Peter (Oct 9) should do the same. A responsible manufacterer or his agent will listen, learn something about their product, and fix the problem. Everyone benefits from that, including the manufacturer. Full marks to TC. Full marks to NAD. |
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AUDIO ECONOMIST | To Anonymous of October 10 I believe your analogy is not a very good one. A better one could be that the Ferrari, being a very fast, exotic car, has quite a bumpy ride and has a very noisy engine (talk about the relative cabin silence you can find in a lexus or others). With this kind of car, who needs a car stereo to overwhelm the din of its throaty engine. AUDIO ECONOMIST |
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John Allen | I agree that anonymous's analogy is not very good, but yours is worse, AE. The real Ferrari driver would prefer the engine to drown out the din of the stereo. Perhaps that is your point? Look, we don't actually know that NAD is either less or more reliable than any other brand. All we know is we have posts here describing problems with NADs, and how to solve them. If you don't see similar posts here discussing, say, Kenwood, then what conclusion can you draw from that? By the way, I don't like to be personal, but wonder if you would mind turning off the caps? |
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AUDIO ECONOMIST | DEAR JOHN ALLEN, MY POINT EXACTLY... I CANNOT HELP IT WHEN YOU CANNOT ENDURE MY CAPS. YOU SEE, I AM ALREADY DEAF FROM HEARING MY NAD T752 TURNED FULL BLAST. I LUV IT!!!!!! |
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John A. | AE, Yes, but your caps are drowing out the subtleties from my system... I still don't think an NAD is a Ferrari. You don't have to be crazy, it isn't that expensive, and beginners should not be put off getting one. Never mind. Thanks for your comment! John |
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AUDIO ECONOMIST | John A. Ok, but I have to point out that it was not I who started the Ferrari thing... just made a more correct perspective. AE |
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| Hi just bought a brand new nad t752. It sounded great for three days, then all of a sudden it didn't turn on any more. Tried to unplug, wait all the night, but it doesn't answer either to remote or to front panel buttons. Going to get a new one, too bad. Just to make sure they don't give me an old version, can someone explain me how to recognize software release (V 1.22 vs V 1.20)? Thanks Frank |
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ng | Hi Frank, You press both Audio and Video buttons simultaneously for about 3 seconds, then release them and the version will display. I believe that changes between ver1.20 and 1.22 only apply to T762, but still a good way to make sure you get the latest. |
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| TC/LAZ, anyone who can answer, Laz on this thread eluded to a bug I have encountered with my T752. 1st time buyer of NAD, but I am hooked on NAD now, so I would like to see the bug through (I digress). 2nd unit T752, first was early unit with issues and software v1.04 A7, thus I got new unit with v1.06 A7, also with issues. NAD CA shipped v1.22 A7 as a EEPROM chip upgrade to my local importer/agent (I am in South Africa) and he did the chip upgrade, my problems experienced with v1.06 A7 were solved to acceptable levels, BUT I got the annoying itermitant radio reception bleed if you will, and if being careful I turned vol up to -12db the radio is at listenable levels and pretty clear (only slight FM type hiss on the receiption). I thought I was the only one until I read LAZ's post. The upgrade of the OSD daughterboard, does it solve this bug too? I will redo any of the following for sake of having made a mistake, but I have done as follows: Tested with all inputs removed, tested grounding, tested power supply from utility, only use the provided FM ariel, tested all of the above with software being set to zero inputs and speakers set to none on various combinations from stereo to all 6.1 channels. I don't want to post names here, but I was in direct contact with people at NAD CA for the chip upgrade (had to as local support/infrastructure was slow and unresponsive) and do not want to go back to them unless I can substantively explain my position. I will not move from NAD only to solve issues with the unit I have. Oh, and the option of waiting for a T753 is out of the question for me; only if NAD CA did it for me direct would it come off as here in SA service levels are much lower than CA/State side and an expectation of "upgrading" unit to T753 when available for even $100 would be laughed at locally by both the supplier and retailers in question. TC many thanks for the detailed to and fro account on your issues, I have had a similar story only much more remote from CA than you. All credit to NAD for dealing with these T752 issues to date though; other manufacturers may have just said lump-it or leave-it. BTW (slightly off topic, but Johan A. you opened the door on this one from here..) TC/John A. - on the T532 player points, Does it actually support DVD-A, or are you just using its DAC's capabilities to play the DVD PCM streams from the Video partition. From what I know (stand to be corrected) the DVD-A format stores the audio on the DVD in the audio_TS section and thus a defacto DVD player cannot see the data in this area of a disc, irrelevant of mastered format of the tracks be it PCM, MLP or other. If the disc is backwards compatible OR offers video as well as DVD-A tracks it has duplicated the audio to the video_TS area of the disc so a defacto DVD player will play this audio and if there is video the video as well. Obviously these duplicated tracks are not to be considerd DVD-A quaility necessarily but may be raw PCM, but most likely will be DD or DTS encoded. This is not to say Johan A. (I have read your other thread on DVD-A/T532) that these Video section audio tracks, especially the raw PCM or DTS (though DTS is encoded none the less) have been recorded, mixed and/or mastered at a lower sample rate and/or bit rate. Thus it is possible to have a DVD-A disc delivered with the DVD-A mastered tracks having the same resolution as those tracks duplicated in the DVD-V area of the disc, nothing gained or lost on these discs in a good 96/24 DVD player/ Receveiver combo. A good way to test the above is look an the internet for sites showing how to author a DVD-A disc only (only a audio_TS section), do so using a CD-RW (yes it will be short on space) but for testing if the DVD Player is actually reading the A section then hey why not (I would do the test, but don't YET own a T532) John, I do agree that even if you do not have the above success on a pure DVD player (even the T532), being selective in purchasing DVD-A's that have been 192/24 or 96/24 recorded and mixed and at least 96/24 mastered to the DVD-V section of the DVD-A disc provide better quality audio than a pure CD mastered at 44.1 of the same title, which should be true to ALL DVD players capable of 96/24bit decoding or RAW PCM extraction with 96/24 bit encoding occuring on the Receiver with digital feed from DVD-Player for this kind of disc setup. If wrong, and the test homebrewed DVD-A on CDRW plays audio in the T532 then I *want* one as it is really a DVD-A player but without the ability to use MLP or other decoding, which I could live with or maybe the market place may provid an MLP or other DVD-A encoded format decoder later for add-on, then the T532 becomes a simple transport capable of "seeing" the DVD-A section of a disc. Either way the T532 sounds like a good competitve NAD upgrade from my current Sony DVD Player. Just a penny for thoughts, and before I get flammed for this digression, I know this thread is not about DVD-A, but it is current for JohnA and TC at present. |
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John A. | Ivor, Thanks! "...or are you just using its DAC's capabilities to play the DVD PCM streams from the Video partition" I am fairly sure this is what is am doing with the T532, and is all it allows. Having said that, all the DVD-A discs I have (five, all from Naxos, though I suspect all others) have the DTS Video track at the same resolution as the PCM track on the Audio partition. In only one case (Vivaldi Four Seasons) are these actually at the max 96/24 (the same raw spec for multichannel in both DTS and "true" DVD-A). All other are 24 bit, but go down to allowed (both formats) 48 kHz (Shostakovich, Grofe) or 44 kHz (Elgar, Holst). Even the last have spectacular sound quality compared with CD. I honestly don't think there can be any audible loss in being restricted to DTS. Your test disc idea is great. I have already burned some useful test DD and DTS CDs from aiff files on the Swedish Radio multichannel site Multichannel site (most are in English). I will look to see if I have the technology to choose the disc partition, and report back. As I posted under What does 'DVD-Audio' mean here? (Sept 12) there is a full description of these formats (also SACD) from a disc manufacturer's point of view in the pdf file DVD-Audio. Not even MLP is mandatory for "DVD-A". That is partly why I think the DVD-A format may be construed as an attempt to encourage sales of players with analogue out, re-selling us DSPs we already have in our receivers, not to mention superfluous analogue interconnects. Keep on at NAD. There was a fellow in Poland who finished with "the distributor said he had never seen this before" and I believe a multinational company should ...... well provide the same service and dealer standards wherever it sells its stuff; it helps fix higher retail prices outside N. America and what, actually, do the rest of us get for those? |
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| Ivor: I too can hear the radio "bleed" through onto analog inputs when nothing is connected and the volume is above +15dB. But this "noise" is at a very low volume and would not be noticable under normal usage. I believe you have a problem with the unit and it should be repaired. I think you should contact NAD and discuss your problems and ask for a course of action to have your unit repaired. You should feel free to mention this thread. I have made NAD aware of it and asked them to review it from time to time as I believe it is their best interest to do so. I feel very certain that you will receive the same service I have, albeit, with a bit more complications due to the geographical distance. Best of Luck. TC |
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| One more update: The delay when playing a CD on the DVD is still present, but is not always noticable, depending on the songs. I doesn't bother me, but thought I would add it here since I previously said I couldn't detect it. TC |
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AK | Hi all, I am glad to find such an informative BBS for NAD T752. I am a newbie on this matter but I am trying to learn... By the way I found an interesting stuff which is not directly related to NAD T752 but I thought it was worth reading since the article was mentioning about the humming noise from an high-end amplifier. An excerpt from this article says: "The MC602 also produced a slight humming sound that could not be completely eliminated, but this was audible only between tracks and wasn't noticeable during any actual listening. I later found that it was a grounding issue and not a fault of the amp." The full article can be found at: http://www.audiorevolution.com/equip/mcintoshmc602/ AK |
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Mike in Dallas | I wanted to add my experience to this very informative thread. I am awaiting my new T752. I am receiving it in exchange for my T751 (and $150). I bought the 751 three years ago and had returned it to the repair center (in Boston) four times already : once for a bad connection that prevented output on one front channel; once more for a video board that popped out during shipping (or was not reconnected); once for an annoying hum in the front left channel in surround modes only (that is apparently a known defect -- they replaced a bad capacitor) and once again because the front left channel would cut out entirely after the unit had been on in surround mode for a few minutes. Stereo mode always worked great, after the first repair. Surround modes were always the problem The final straw came when the front left channel started dropping out again, plus there is an audible high-pitched whine coming through the center channel at all times. That's the bad news. The good news is that I have found NAD customer service to be helpful. When I complained after the third repair, they reimbursed all my shipping costs to the Boston repair center. They also agreed to extend my warranty an extra year. When I wrote them after the fourth repair, suggesting that I had been sold a lemon and that I deserved an exchange, they agreed to trade in my 751 for a new 752. I'm paying the price difference, but I consider it a fair trade considering that I have used the 751 regularly for playing CDs and have been immensely satisfied with the sound. I hope I the 752 does better. From reading this forum, I am a bit nervous. We'll see. Its performance will determine if I ever buy NAD again. I loved the 751's sound (matched with the NAD 523 CD player); I am satisfied with NAD's customer service and with the dealer (Kief's of Lawrence, KS); but it is annoying to have to ship a large piece of equipment back and forth cross-country so many times -- someone likened an NAD to an entry-level Lexus, but nobody expects their Lexus to spend half its time at the mechanic. I also was not pleased with the speed or courtesy of the repair center. In fact, after the third repair, they basically told me they had done all they could do and expected me to buzz off. That's when I got NAD involved, and they straightened things out. That's my 2 cents. Hope it helps someone. |
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John A. | This is one thread of real T752 problems, not imaginery ones. In these cases it seems NAD steps in if the dealer drags his heels. I wonder how many other manufacturers would do the same. Thanks to TCS and Mike; this is useful information. As regards AK's point, anyone with residual hum in surround mode, on any model, might try NAD receiver hum: cause and cure. |
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AK | Hi guys, I have been reading enough background information on T752 while I am waiting for my unit. I am sure any current owner of T752 could easily answer the following question. Based on what I have seen so far from several rear panel pics of T752 posted on several web sites, I found no decal or a place holder for manufacture date marking. But on the other hand, units like NAD L70 has a clear marking for the MFG date on the rear panel as I saw that in a local dealer showroom. Where can I find the MFG date on T752 unit? Anybody has any ideas? Thanks. AK |
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| Another update. I have just received an email from the fellow I have been dealing with at NAD asking me if I am experiencing any further problems with my receiver and if I am totally satisfied with the new T532 DVD I purchased. I wrote to tell him I was happy with both units and thanked him for his follow-up. I know some others are experiencing some failures with new NAD units and I encourage then to contact NAD directly to have these problems resolved. Yes, I agree it would be preferrable for these problems not to exist in the first place, but as I have explained above, there are, to my way of thinking anyway, understandable reasons for developmental issues. After the first exchange with the retailer, it is my recommendation to contact NAD directly and have the problem fixed. I may have the advantage since I am in Canada to get this resolved quickly, however, I feel confident that a quick call to NAD will help to get things resolved. I have phoned and talked the the engineers directly myself so it is not an impossibilty. I can only say their customer service is outstanding. Contact names and phone numbers are available on the website. TC |
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John A. | TC, I have just re-read this thread. What a service you did many people. Perhaps I asked for it, but I seem to have pretty well your original problem, now, on my T760. So far, I have received prompt and polite feedback from NAD, by e-mail, but they always decline to provide a technical contact, refering me instead to "my distributor". What I would like is someone who knows what is what. "My distributor" doesn't, and seems happy to waste my time and money. I will save the full story until I see how it resolves itself. My unit is out of warranty and, having inspected it, I am not deterred from doing the job myself. Do you happen to know if I can obtain a replacement OSD board? And a firmware update? If you had an earlier model OSD board then it may well have been the same as the one causing my problem. Alternatively, do you have a contact you can recommend, in Canada or elsewhere, who might be able to advise me? The distributor here has no problem in refering me to their own technical centre in another country, but they haven't responded - all I get is unobtainable phone numbers; rudeness; answering machines; bouncing or unanswered e-mails. Phoning NAD directly would be a pleasure. I'm sure I would get some sense. |
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hammick Unregistered guest | John Ashman: I am thinking of dumping my T752 for a T753. What are the differences in the multi zone out between the T753 and T763? I saw photos of both rear panels and the T763 appears to have rca outs for the multi zone and the T752 does not. How does multi zone work with the T752? Thanks. |
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New member Username: John_aPost Number: 64 Registered: 12-2003 | I think multizone is the main new feature in the whole new T7x3 range - that is, the T752 does not have it. You can get full specs and user manuals from the NAd web site. BTW I am not Ashman, he posted on another thread - I mention this so as not to appear to be an imposter. All speakers out will have standard binding-post terminals. RCA is for pre-map out etc. |
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