Quickie: Any DVD-A that allows you to play 96/24 in Digital 2 Channel
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Bronze Member Username: MrspeeedCanada Post Number: 11 Registered: Jun-04 | Hey, I have a yamaha RXV-596 (allows for a digital input of 96/24 in 2 channel) and a pioneer 578a (allows for a digital output of 96/24 in 2 channel) but only 2 DVD-A's (REM and Metalica "Black" album). I don't know if either of these 2 discs ALLOW a digital output that high or whether I have set up the system correctly (probably the latter). Can anybody suggest a DVD-A that allows a high digital transfer of 96/24??? Pop, rock, classical, country, it doesn't matter! PS: I am using the analog outs for the 192/24 and digital outs for DD, DTS. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1438 Registered: Dec-03 | Mr Speeed, The sampling frequency and size in bits is no secret. It should tell you on the disc menu, on the booklet, and the label. So any DVD-A disc should do, just read the label to make sure. I cannot quite focus on the problem; "or whether" ? What is it you cannot do? |
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Bronze Member Username: MrspeeedCanada Post Number: 12 Registered: Jun-04 | John, Thanks for your reply. I recently moved and don't have the cover of my 2 dvd-a as they are in storage which is part of the problem. No stores around me sell DVD-a though I will be travelling soon to the US where I can buy them. When I play DVD-A I use the analog outs but I am just playing around with the digital outs. In the disc menu I have seen 96/24 as an option but when I try and play it my receive goes into prologic. Since it is in prologic the signal must not be coming from the analog outs since DSP's don't work using the external decoder input. All I want to do is to play a digital 96 sampled 24 bit signal from the DVD-A player that is not downmixed so that my reciever will receive the digital 96/24 in stereo and not prologic. In my Yammie's manual it said when the 96/24 source is being played then the display will show "PCM Stereo 96K" and the sound will be output through r/l 2 channel stereo. I have yet to see this displayed. On my DVD-A I have set it up as that I (1) have a 96kHz linear PCM compatable receiver and (2)linear PCM is NOT to be sampled down and (3)connected the player to the receiver using a digital coaxial (in addition to the analog). So either the 2 DVD-a that I have don't have that output or I am simply missing something in my set up. I hope this clarifies things. Regards |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 444 Registered: Dec-03 | I could be wrong but i don't think your going to get 2 channel digital to your reciever. yes i believe your dvd player and reciver would if they could. but the format is not on the disk for copyright reasons. i am pretty sure on that but not 100% |
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Bronze Member Username: MrspeeedCanada Post Number: 13 Registered: Jun-04 | Kegger, Thanks for your post. I have considered the copyright issue however the menu on the DVD-A player does show a 96/24 being played (I'm am pretty sure) and the player does not show that it is being downmixed (it does have a downmix light on the front display) which I would think would happen if the particular DVD-a is protected as most I believe are. Also the receiver still shows a digit input is being fed into it but it still goes into prologic. Part of the problem I think is that when I pop a DVD-A in it goes into DVD-A mode which is generally 192/24 for 2 channels or 96/24 for 6 channels which is all analog I believe. I am thinking that prehaps I have to go into the DVD-A in the DVD-Video mode/layer and select a Digital 2 channel mix. Just a thought... I guess I will have to fool around with the set up some more. The time spent fool'in around would be lessoned if I knew of a DVA-A/V that allowed a digital 2 channel 96/24. Thanks for your thoughts. Regards, |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 447 Registered: Dec-03 | yah your guess is as good as mine. if somehow you get it i would be interested in how. so please post what you find out! |
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Bronze Member Username: MrspeeedCanada Post Number: 14 Registered: Jun-04 | On a different forum about the DVD audio player (Pioneer 563-As) specificially it mentioned a test DVD (Discwasher Home Theater Setup Disc - Silver Edition (DVD) that has the digital high fidelity stereo of 96/24. I'll try to buy this knowning at least it has the correct source I am looking for. I do have Avia and another set up disc that I will look to see has the 96/24 digital high fidelity stereo (I think the later does infact). The thread had also mentioned that I need to set the default from a 5.1 player mode to 2 channel mode. It makes sense but if a 2 channel source isn't being played then I don't know if it can convert a 5.1 96/24 to a 2.0 96/24. It also eluded to the ability to downmix 192/24 in 2 channel to 96/24 in 2 channel. I'll try it out tonight on the REM 192/24 2 channel analog and see if it is out put as 96/24 digitally from the coxial to my reciever and post the results. |
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Bronze Member Username: MrspeeedCanada Post Number: 15 Registered: Jun-04 | Eureka! Kegger I figured it out. Do you have a 563a? I am pretty sure I saw that on a different thread. I used "The Best of REM" DVD-A played at both 96/24 for 5.1 and 192/24 for 2.0. It worked for both tracks. I used the digital coaxial connection to my receiver. Here is how to do it for the Pioneer 563a: (1)Set Dolby Digital Out to -> Dolby Digital to PCM (makes sense since the 96/24 is in PCM) (2)Set Audio Output Mode to -> 2 Channel (3) Select a hi rez track, press play. Just so I don't lay claim to coming up with this this came from Gary at Tweaks & Reviews - www.slottweak.com. It was posted under a different chat board on a 563a thread. Now the reason for doing this: (1) putting a 96/24 allows for a hi rez feed directly to your receiver so that you can use the receiver's base management (2) You might be able to make a back up copy of the DVD-a at this higher rate (3) Just so you can (this is why I did it!) Hope this helps. Regards |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 449 Registered: Dec-03 | cool i will have to check it out. yes i have a pioneer 563a and a denon 2200. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1445 Registered: Dec-03 | Mr Speeed, I thought I had recommended changing the Digital Audio out settings, but I now see it must have been on another thread. Anyway, you got there! Even a non-DVD-A player has the "PCM" option. I never tried mine. I didn't know what it did. I do now. There are some "PCM stereo" DVD-V discs with amazing sound quality, if you choose that option. BTW "(1)Set Dolby Digital Out to -> Dolby Digital to PCM" Does the setup menu really say "Dolby Digital Out"? No form of Dolby, even AC-3, is PCM. Dolby is in the compression business, always was. How "Dolby" has got itself in everybody's minds as the word for "Digital audio" is worth thinking about. Yep, cool. There are some good recommendations of the Pioneer 563A on this forum. |
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Bronze Member Username: MrspeeedCanada Post Number: 17 Registered: Jun-04 | John A. Thanks for the post. Digital Out on the menu only gives has a yes or no option (yes you have a digital connection or no you don't). The menu really does say Dobly Digital Out as the 2 choices are "Dolby Digital" or "Dolby Digital -> PCM". I understand what you are saying and I agree. Is Dolby to Digital as Kleenex is to Tissue Paper? Pioneer appears to think so. I did forget in my other post that "Linear PCM Out -> Down Sample Off". Simple enough. After reading other posts I have seen the some DVD-V do come in 96/24 but unfortunately mine do not. I first thought I would have the use a DVD-V simply because I haven't read so much about a DVD-V copyright protection as opposed to DVD-A. I've tested all my DVD-V (Eagles, Diana Krall, Billy Joel, Def Leapord, Dixie Chicks - my wife's) and no go and all my DVD-A which all worked!. By the way I only have 2 DVD-A, The Best of REM and Metallica Black. Maybe because the DVD-V's that I have don't have a separate 96/24 PCM 2 channel track and since the DVD-A have both a 192/24 *2 and a 96/24 * 5.1 track which are both not Dolby Digital but rather PCM the Pioneer 563a-s is able to read the Digital PCM format and play it digitally? Since my DVD-V's highest resolution track is just 48/24 in PCM stereo, DTS and 5.1 then trying to extract a 96/24 is impossible because it is just not there. Therefore I would assume that any DVD-A that is not copyright protected could be played in a 2 channel PCM 96/24 format. Sound good? Can you give me a the names of a couple of DVD-V that have the 96/24 track? Thanks for the post! Regards |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1452 Registered: Dec-03 | Mr. Speeed, Sounds OK to me. Some DVD-As do not have a two-channel version at all, only 5.1 or some other surround format. You have to read the label. As regards audio hi-res two-channel DVD-V, there are many DVD-V discs with PCM stereo. All I can think of, off the top of my head, is the Arthaus Musik catalogue. You did say the type of music does not matter! Their sampler discs are good for trying out different formats. I have number 1 but I read a good review of number 2, which even has some stuff in DTS, as well as DD and PCM stereo, for comparision. http://www.naxos.com/NewDesign/fdvd_arthaus.files/dvd_arthaus.htm |
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New member Username: Fallen_angelPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-04 | I spent weeks with my DV565A (EU model) trying these button combinations. Then I decided to try decrypting. Olé!, 96/24 indicator finally lit up on my AV receiver. Problem resolved, but still curious if it also can be done in player setup. Did you guys manage with original discs? A couple of 96/24 recommendations: Queen - The Game (DTS 96/24 edition) Late Mr. Mercury's voice crispier than ever. Vivaldi - Il Cimento dell'Armonia e dell'Inventione (Arts Music 47572 - DVD) Ear- and Mindblowing 4 seasons extended. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1504 Registered: Dec-03 | Mikael, Which receiver, if I may ask? This is the first I have heard of a 96/24 indicator. Maybe mine does not do the job at all... It is probably still preferable to use the processor in the player, unless the receiver is a wole lot better, which would be unusual. That looks like a great Vivaldi. I have been recommending the Naxos 4 seasons DVD-A, but it is a very hard, aggressive performance, and I'll bet that one is much better. Italians were late starters with original instruments and all that, but they have made up for it now, with some fantastic bands. That is good - they practically invented the baroque in the first place. |
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Anonymous | Hi John A. Receiver is Marantz 4300. Also adverts "96 Kz" in big letters when trying to fiddle with bass management. (not handled for hi-res by this cheap-o model). Blind-tested S/PDIF against basic Supra on 5.1 analogue interconnect. A draw, but I expect Supra to win on 2.0 jacks as I've heard DV565A converts (ie oversamples in this case) 192/24 on those. I wouldn't say Art's Vivaldi is cotton for ears. Rather the attack and precision draw attention to every tone and note. A disc with attitude (and history, tell no more, see booklet) Cheers Mikael PS: Could somebody from ecoustics tell me why Norton detects threat FROM my PC when trying to log in? DS |
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Bronze Member Username: MrspeeedCanada Post Number: 21 Registered: Jun-04 | John A. My receiver is 4 years old and it has the indicator as noted "96k PCM Stereo". I see where you are going in regards to the processor but you can't really use the processor in the player since the whole point is to pass the digital feed out of the player without being down mixed. Currently I have only seen 96/24 as the highest digital mix (which is not to say the may or may not be a higher rate). Most would agree it is better to hear a 196/24 analog mix but this is still a neat feature to have. In my case it allows me to use my receiver's base management. Cheers, |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1537 Registered: Dec-03 | Mr Speeed, Thanks. I agree. Mikael, Thanks. I agree. Re-login, your PC is probably getting offered a "cookie" which Norton thinks may be toxic. This is an OK site and somehow my e-mail is not even picked up, from here, for spam purposes. Touch wood. |
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Anonymous | Mr. Speed, just in case you are expecting a 192 kHz indicator to lit up some day: This will not happen, as S/PDIF technical specs say 2 x 96/24 is maximum. Also, I believe 4 years ago very few receivers carried a DSP above 192/24 (limiting capability to 2 x 96k x 24). John A., thanks for the advice but it didn't work. Attack goes from 127.0.0.1 to certain Google IP, which never happens in other forums. But nevermind, I am trying to contact eCoustics regarding issue. Iff it happens to be evil ware, I will tell the world. Rgds Mikael |
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New member Username: HaleirwinCaracas, Caracas Venezuela Post Number: 3 Registered: Sep-04 | In the 5.1 analogue conection in the display the indicator not light on (96 khz) but the disc is dvd-audio in multichannel mode in 96 khz 24 bits. The quality of the sound I heard for analogue way is true 96 khz 24 bits quality? |
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Bronze Member Username: MrspeeedCanada Post Number: 30 Registered: Jun-04 | JJ, Chances are the 96 display is for 96 via a digital feed. Since you are using the analogue connection you wont see the display. Chances are your DVD player has some type of on screen display (try pressing the audio button..if you have one) and it will tell you the resolution of the recorded source. So if you still see that a particular disc is playing at 96/24 and you are using the analogue feeds then yes you are getting "true" 96 qualtiy. By the way I don't know of any DVD player that outputs 96/24 for more than 2 channels. |
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Silver Member Username: Arnold_layneMadridSpain Post Number: 155 Registered: Jun-04 | Exactly, as long as we talk coaxial (S/PDIF) or optical (Toslink) interfaces. Specs just don't permit more than a total of 24*192 bitrate. There are other digital interfaces that could easily handle unpacked multi-channel hi-rez audio: Firewire/I-link/IEEE1394 and DVI/HDMI. But in the abscense of technological limits, here enters copy protection issues. I wouldn't be surprised if it even is restricted in SACD and DVD-A license agreements. Cheers AL |
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Anonymous | I don't understand why you say that Toslink can't handle 192/24/2. My Trivista 21 DAC has 192/24/2 inputs and outputs on both Toslink and SPDIF, and there is plenty other gear that does too. My Panasonic DVD-XP50 *APPEARS* to be outputting 96/24/2 and 192/24/2 to its Toslink port. I have an M-Audio 2496 sound card with digital input and outputs which I have used to make 96/24 copies. I guess I could submit a sample to see how it turned out if someone wanted to inspect them. Since the card will only handle 96/24, I tried to play a 192/24/2 disc (Sinatra at the Sands) and record into 96/24/2. The output was low amplitude, high pitched and fast. What do you think? |
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Silver Member Username: Arnold_layneMadridSpain Post Number: 285 Registered: Jun-04 | Firstly, I believe your Panasonic's manual, page 7, states maximum 96KHz out on Toslink. Secondly, isn't it so that the Tri-vista's "96 or 192" switches and indicators refer to internal upsampling of CD signal, not to input samples? I would be happy if I'm wrong, but unfortunatelly the industry is reluctant to expanding the S/PDIF capacity. They prefer HDMI, at bitrates that allows for encrypting the signal (i.e. copy protection). Cheers AL |
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Anonymous | You're absolutely right. The Panasonic manual does say that. And the Trivista's input sample rate maxes out at 108KHz (heaven forbid, pull out the manual). The Panasonic manual also says it won't output copy-protected content out the Toslink, but it seems that it does, since I can sample it. The question is, is it decimated to 44.1KHz or does it stay at 96? |
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Silver Member Username: Arnold_layneMadridSpain Post Number: 290 Registered: Jun-04 | DVD discs are capable of "telling" player to downsample 96 to 48KHz before digital output. For DVD-Audio there is nothing to do about that. But 96KHz PCM on DVD-Video layer can be ripped, and I'd say you hear a difference comparing to original disc. (Slightly illegal experiment, but a good cause...) As far as I know, CD copy protection is not capable of reducing output bitrate. So there you should expect 44.1KHz. Hasta pronto AL |
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New member Username: CanuckinapickleTorontoCanada Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-05 | I'm a bit of a novice to DVD-A and SACD so forgive me in advance. Question: There's lots of discussion here about getting more than 96/24 from a dvd audio source and that many DVD audio players are only able to put that resolution out using analog connections and even then there aren't many that can do that. What then is the story with SACD -- especially in multichannel surround. Is it not able to put out 2.8 million samples per second through the analog jacks? If so why hasn't DVD-A been able to do 96/24 out of all the analog jacks? Moreover, why hasn't SACD become the standard if it is cabable of 2.8 million samples? Far better than DVD-A is it not? Thanks in advance for answering  |
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Silver Member Username: Arnold_layneMadridSpain Post Number: 291 Registered: Jun-04 | 96/24 DVD-A bitrate is 2,304MHz. And max bitrate192000*24 = 4608000. So DVD-A can actually outperform SACD regarding this issue. Moreover, PCM is technically easier to process in some senses, f.e. bass management. Therefore both recording studios and home equipment at least sometimes chose to temporarly converting DSD to PCM somewhere along the line. As you can see, the so called "format war" doesn't have a clear winner. Oh, and the promotors of both SACD and DVD-A have heavily restricted the digital out for S/PDIF. Fully-fledged bitstreams will be copy protected in HDMI digital interface. Cheers AL |
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