Da' Standmount Shootout!
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1952 Registered: Jun-05 | Here is the players in this game as follows: Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 ($249 at STO) Wharfedale Diamond 9.0 ($99 at STO) Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 ($129 at STO) Wharfedale Evo2 8 ($359 at STO) Swan D2.1SE ($599 at The Audio Insider) Swan Diva 2.1 ? ($329 at Oz home theater) Swan M3 ? MSRP $1999 Swan M1 MSRP $1499 but retail price is much lower) |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1953 Registered: Jun-05 | Well i got the Swan M1 in today,I was gonna wait a take pictures and coment on their sound but i just could'nt,this speakers's build quality and looks is flat out awsome,so when my photagrapher gets home(my wife) I will snap a few of this gem.Im gonna give you guys a little preview,the M1 is the best mini-monitor I've heard,they can literally put the band in the room,this is the 1st ribbon tweetered speaker that I've heard that doesent sound like it has a ribbon its cut from the same cloth all the way down to their lowest bass,mind you there not even broke in yet,they are fresh out of the box,their beauty made me listen to them i just could'nt help myself. To put this midly its gonna be tough to beat them,this speaker has to be seen and heard to believe.Everything about them is 1st rate,i really dont know if they can be beaten,but we have some very very worhty contenders,I wish i had a pair of Aurum Cantus Leisure's for this shootout,they have great accurate bass and a soundstage as big and precise as the recording permits,I'll put it like this they have it all wow! this is gonna be a heap of fun,im going back to listen some more be back later........ |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 81 Registered: Jan-09 | Sounds great but way out of my price range. I look forward to hearing the comparison between the 9.1's and the EVO2-8's. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9366 Registered: Feb-05 | So many great standmounts...good job TW. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1954 Registered: Jun-05 | Thanks Art,no pics tonight,but I'll take them tomorrow when the 9.0 and the Evo2 8 get here.The M1 you can get for about $700 a pair well worth it when you consider that at most places the Evo2 8 will be more than the M1.The D2.1SE I have had in my house for about 4 months at my other house,this is another pair and i have a better source, cables,and a way more powerful amp,in a much better accustic room,so you might as well say they will be brand new to me.They sell for $599 at The Audio Insider in your choice of Piano gloss black,piano gloss rosewood,and piano gloss birdseye maple with very good build quality and astonoshng deep bass,that puts many floorstanders to shame,all of these speakers Mordecai are the cream of the crop right now at these prices,their all very obtainable,i do still have hope that the Evo2 8 will be in there slugging it for the crown as a matter of fact im sure they will be just doing that. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 84 Registered: Jan-09 | What are you going to do with all these speakers at the end? Did you buy them all? I know Audio Advisor has a 30 day return. What I'm getting is wondering what you will do with the EVO's? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1960 Registered: Jun-05 | Mordecai,if the Evo2 8's lose i will sell them or trade them for something else. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1961 Registered: Jun-05 | I did get the Evo2 8 and the Diamond 9.0's today,the Evo2 8's are running in right now,their impressive i can tell you that,1 of the 9.0's isnt working,nothings rattling or anything,so a wire probably came loose,so i'll crack them open and fix them tonight.I'll take a few snaps tonite,the 9.0 is a neat little speaker,after my wrestling goes off i'll get a few snaps.lol |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 85 Registered: Jan-09 | Thanks Tawaun. I'm hoping to acquire an HK-3490 receiver soon. I think it will be a big improvement in power quality and quantity compared to what I have. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1962 Registered: Jun-05 | Got the 9.0 fixed wire came loose on the speaker terminal,didnt have time could'nt post the pics but i took them though I'll post them tomorrow,I have to say im very impressed with the 9.0 they go lower than i thought they would,this speaker is super duper steal at $99! |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3247 Registered: May-05 | Throw in a pair of Audio Physics and you've got a real shoot out. Sorry, had to throw that in there. They're like Rodney Dangerfield - they get no respect at all. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9396 Registered: Feb-05 | They get respect from me Stu...oh yeah! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1971 Registered: Jun-05 | I respect soundstaging kings! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1974 Registered: Jun-05 | I was planing on posting the picture and taking the M1 and Evo2 8 thru their paces,but i got caught up listening to the 9.0 wow! this little speaker is something else,I think they best the 8.1's in nearly everything except for soundstage size,but i like the 9.0's in the depth department.Im not gonna go out on a limb like Frank did and say i prefer the 9.0 over the 9.1,i dont but whats suprising is how much of the 9.1's performance you get for the money I'd say 80% percent of what the 9.1's give which is a lot.What i wasnt prepared for is the realistic midbass and dynamics the 9.0's can put out and yes Art,they still have that organic richness that the Wharfies always have,their midbass may be a touch cleaner than the 9.1's.Listening to the 9.0 reminded me how special the 8.1 and 9.1's are and rest of the last 9 generations of .1 Diamonds and why they are the most legendary budget speaker line of all time,i can only imagine what Wharfedale has up their sleave for the Diamond 10's coming out in the fall well more later guys.... |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3607 Registered: Sep-04 | Yup, I prefer the 9.0 over the 9.1, mainly because of the 9.1's rather over-enthusiastic bass line. That said I can certainly understand why a lot of people (and I mean most people) would prefer the 9.1. Personally, the 9.0 comes across with so much passion and enjoyment, without any cabinet noise or mechanical distraction allied to so much speed (as you'd expect from such a dinky speaker) that it's just a blast. Just don't expect them to go loud or to do 'real HiFi' (for that you need decent speakers). They're just...fun! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1982 Registered: Jun-05 | Frank,your talking about the 9.1's BBC bass curve Frank? I must admit the 9.1's curve is implented extremly impressivelly.Its very interresting listening to the 8.1 and the 9.0,their bass balances are more similar to each than the 9.0 is to the 9.1,i think Wharfedale took the true monitor approach to the 9.0 and the 8.1,While the 9.1 sounds like these speakers on stearoids it just plays bigger,the only evidence it shows the bass hump is a touch of warmth,usually i like a totally flat bass,it just goes to show the engineering of Wharfedale on a $350 speaker thats done better than a $14k like the B&W 802D,which there bass sticks out like a sore thumb. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12066 Registered: Dec-04 | It's a very fun thumb. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12067 Registered: Dec-04 | Of course it is difficult to make a 600w speaker with huge bass driver capability to sound so neutral at lower volumes, 14k$ notwithstanding. Add a Fathom sub to the 801's. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1984 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah,the 802D is fun |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12072 Registered: Dec-04 | TW, is yer camera ded? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1985 Registered: Jun-05 | Waiting on the wife,my camera loading ability is dismal.lol |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2429 Registered: Jun-07 | Nuck- my dealer has the fathom sub and it was hooked up last weekend when I was listening to an all Paradigm Studio Home Theater powered by Anthem Statement. It was crazy. Fast, accurate, and could stop on a dime. TW- Picture time.lol |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12074 Registered: Dec-04 | Nick, if I needed a sub... one on CAM for 2800$ !!! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1986 Registered: Jun-05 | When you guys see the pics of M1 you might wet yourself.lol |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2430 Registered: Jun-07 | Nuck - I can take it off my dealer for 3500 out the door which is good new, 2800 is a steal. A guy was in a few weeks ago that has Dual Classe mono blocks, Classe pre with huge Martin Logan speakers purchased the "Dual" Fathom for that system. The sub is SO accurate my dealer said you can't go over kill with it even for a two channel system. TW - I probably will man.lol. |
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Bronze Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 94 Registered: Jan-09 | Where are the results for your shootout? I am anxiously awaiting. I had a little standmount shootout of my own this weekend. I will do a write up later in a separate string. The speakers included the Beta 20's, Diamond 9.1's, Acculine A1 and Acculine A2. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2002 Registered: Jun-05 | This week,gotta do it right,im very familar with all the speakers in your shootout. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12113 Registered: Dec-04 | Is yer cam ded TW? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2003 Registered: Jun-05 | I'll try to get it done tonite Nuck,but you know the playoffs is on,you might would feel me if the Raptors was in.lol |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12119 Registered: Dec-04 | Who are Raptors, and where do they play hockey? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2005 Registered: Jun-05 | No basketball |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2006 Registered: Jun-05 | You Canucks and your hockey.lol |
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New member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-09 | Hey, I'm dying to hear how your shootout come out between the EVO2-8's and the Diamond 9/9.1's? Any impressions? Thanks! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2007 Registered: Jun-05 | I'll have my wife post the pics when she gets off of work,give me about a hour,and I'll post the results. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2015 Registered: Jun-05 | Well im sorry guys that this has taken so long,but a lot of things came up,but most of all i beleive in doing my reviewing right with no prejudices.Im gonna break each speaker down 1 by 1,pics we posted tommrrow for sure,so lets begin. Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 $129 at STO This speaker has been my long lasting budget reference for nearly 10 years,and they gave me a place to retreat when i made a bad speaker purchse,so they have really made me mature as a audiophile,but they have also made me leave favortism at the door,and with all that it will aply to them. The 8.1s biggest strength is their musical midrange and their wide open soundstage,they reming me so much of the Quad Esl 57's they have directness about them that puts many many more expensive speakers to shame.If a recording is bad they will show it,but they always let the emotion flood thru. Playing Nora Jones they displayed a unusual directness to her performance,with outstanding macro dynamics and very very good scale with the piano,they lacked topend extension,but its a emotional rollercoaster.Micro dynamics could be better,but most small speakers dont score well in this category anyway,the bass goes down to about 65htz but its lightweight but very even no BBC hump here,they simply do what they can and nothing more I've always admired them for this in the era that many small speakers sound like big speakers only to let you down on the things that small speakes are special at,surly this plays a huge part in their exceptional macro dynamics,the lower treble is rich and hard hitting they give a good hint of what brass really sounds like and feels like. The 8.1 could use more detail,but you cant have it all at this price,and Wharfdeale hit it out of the park on these in the Emotion department with outstanding timing,more speakers should grab this concept,its the 1 thing all humans have is emotion and we all react to it be it for better or for worse.These will remain with me until i die,no matter what comes out or because of some their weekness's these are old school,they touch your heart,its hard to think that anything else is more important. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2016 Registered: Jun-05 | Wharfedale Diamond 9.0 $99 at STO This speaker right here is to show everyone or every manufacture,that i can build the best speaker at sewer level prices.Having owning the Primus 150,i have to say that Wharfedale has succeded here,the new and improved drivers over the 8.1 is evident,they have more detail everywhere playing Nora Jones i heard more of a relationship of the muscians being seprate well....musicians. The 9.0's bass is more related to the 8.1's than the 9.1's its evenhanded and it never tries to do anything it cant,but it has some extra bloom in the upperbass thats more realistic than the 8.1,their both very nimble and fast,but the 9.0's have that extra dose of reality.This Diamond 9 series is really special amongst dome tweeters,with the 9.0's its extension is displayed into full light,they impress you straight away with their balance and extension and hefty midrange they have very very good timing,they give up a bit of sounstage height and width to the 8.1 but counter with better depth. The 9.0's is the best budget buy right now,I had a lot fo fun with these little speakers,sometimes i forgot i had all these heavyweights in the house,thats saying alot,i could gripe about their weekness's but im not to be fair to the 9.0's their all of omission.No longer is the .1 the smallest speaker in their line up,and beleive me these little babies pack a big punch,the question is can swallow your man pride and buy a pair,they might show you what your speakers are missing. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2017 Registered: Jun-05 | Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 $249 at STO Wharfedale's .1 speaker has been a mainstay in many homes and magazine reviews and called legends since its 1st generation,it has 9 gerneration of pedagree dating back to 1981 alongside many British living legends back then,with them and the early budget Missions occupying the budget territory.To say they have far succeded their reputation is a understatement,the 9th generation edition matches many more costlier designs in several categories. Lets start with the bass which is whats different from other generations,they employ the BBC bass curve,made popular by the ls3/5a probably the most legondary small speaker of all time,but time marches on,the implamentation of this trick is the best I've ever heard it,even besting the $14k B&W 802 Diamond with this neat little trick.The 9.1's port is tuned to 45htz,things with big bass sounds big,to really hear it with the 9.1's you need some good material to make them show heir magic trick. The 9.1's pull the bass trick out better than the illusionist(Ed Norton)I found some left hand piano notes where i heard them step forward a bit,at times i felt i could'nt hear synth bass's as well as i thought i should,and then i had to take a step back realize that this is a $350 standmount,the notion that it can even hint at these things without showing you its trick is pretty amazing,i heard some outstanding Piano left hand Piano purr on the David Benoit's (Full Circle) that no speaker at this price and size should be able to pull off. All of this grown up bass meshes well with the other 2 frequenceys with aplomb,voices have excelent texture,female voices like Lizz Wright,Bonnie Raite,and Jennifer Hudson showed you they were powerful alto voices,male voices are equally well served,but female voices were really shown how powerful they really can sound.Detail is excellent although some of it is diminished because they are so smooth,and more so a bit laidback,not much just a touch.Some material thru the uppermidrange may seem a little laidback.the lower treble is powerful with decent bite on brass for a softdome. This is a speaker you can live with for a long time,they do all the fundamentals very well,its suprising that their timing is this good considering they have the BBC curve,but they do it,the thing is that do a whole shopping cart full of things so well it makes you scratch you head at some of these overpriced unmusical transducers on the market,the legend lives and the 9th generation has made some new strides. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2018 Registered: Jun-05 | Wharfedale Evo2 8 $359 at STO Diamonds are forever,thats Wharfedales mainstream thinking and with good reason when that line is as good as it is and its your bread and butter,would'nt you? They also havent forgot about midpriced speakers,the Evo2 8 is their 9.1 at the midpriced level but thats where the similarities end, they are at a much higher level and for people out there that feel that they just have real wood veneer and look better than the 9.1s would be sorely mistaken.1st off at STO's prices dont buy the Evo2 8 to try it out because 9 times out out of 10 they will be replacing your main speakers and you'll be upset wondering why you bought the other speakers that costed more in the 1st place. 2nd of all dont think that they are a little better than your 9.1's or about the same as your 9.6 big wrong they are leagues up on the Diamond line as great as it is,from build to anything else.You want a highend speaker these are the ticket at the $359 price at STO there is nothing close at anything.All the Evo2 series drivers matched to 1.5db tolerances and each driver is on record.All the Evo's drivers look the same right? well wrong they have 3 different 6.5 inch drivers 2 different tweeters and 2 5 inch tweeters,and guess what the Evo2 8 drivers are only used for it,the rest of the line mitches and matches the Evo2 doesent which in my book makes it pretty special,but you wont know this from Wharfedales website,its all in the owners manual,as are more woofer driver measurements and tolerances than I've ever seen including SEAS,Vifa,Scan-speak,and Dyanaudio. This speaker has a very expensive speaker parts pedagree,the Diamond drivers are nothing like these on paper and the gap widens even more in practice,everthing that the Diamond 9.1 does great the Evo2 does greater,the soundstage is among the biggest I've ever been associated with,its pretty precise to,the midrange scale is awsome! The bass goes down to 45htz of real bass no BBC here its quick and extended to,after listening to the 9.1 some might think they sound lean until they listen for a while and they realize instruments and people sound real not like your looking thru a window.Macro Dyanmics are flatout explosive,1 of the best I've ever heard from a standmounted speaker regardless of price or size.The tweeter approaches some ribbons only giving ground at the highest extremes,i said extremes didnt i they are super extended and smooth and robust,they have a very powerful presentation physical is a better word you can feel things with these babies,the Evo2 8 sound like a band not a recording of a band they bring the band to your room. Its a shame the Evo2 series isnt more well known,i favor them over the Monitor Audio RS6,they do everthing they do without the touch of brightness with better intergration this the 1st speaker in this pricerange that I've heard that can match the RS6 in macro dynamics.These are a audiophile bargain,i dont know how they will play on lesser electronics,but on highend gear they storm along in a super emotional way with real physicality. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2019 Registered: Jun-05 | Swan D2.2SE $599 at TheAudioInsider.com Swan has been making a mark in the N.American market for some time now,the problem is they dont really care about maketing so everthing is word of mouth,like ID speakers,as a matter of fact many people think its a ID brand,in reality they are the largest speaker company in China and OEM drivers maker.They have a bigger more advanced chamber than the 1 in Canada,but marketing has slowed their tru progress in N.America,i guess as big is their market is everywhere else they dont care,but i think its wrong considering this is the biggest audio market.The brand 1st came into prominence in this neck of the woods in the mid to late 90's when av123 picked them up.Jon Lane brought them in while he was working for Mark Shifter,the guy at Swan when the company was in its child stages used to buy ribbons tweeters from Jon when he was at BG,so to make a long story shorter Swan and av123 parted ways as well as Jon Lane and he picked up the Swan Diva line and started TheAudioInsider and he made Swans popular in the U.S. Swan was born Toronto Canada. On test today we have the Swan D2.1SE it is pretty substantial standmounter with drivers that look like the Dynaudio Audience line,but improved with a different motor,they are of very good quality,the finsh of the speaker is in piano black,piano Rosewood,and piano birds eye maple striking to eye to say the least and pretty unheard of at this price besides the Quad 11L2's. This speaker plays like a floorstander with solid bass down to the low 30's pretty awsome when consider its a standmounter it will beat up on most floorstnders at this price in the bass sweepstakes and it does the montior things that most floorstanders can only hint at in this pricerange.The drivers are like Dynaudio in play to,which means they like to goosed with a little volume and then everthing starts to snap into place,a good amp wit some current is needed,detail levels are a little higher than Evo2 8, with similar organic warmth but more refined,imaging is a bit better to,the sounsdstage is about the same size a bit more layed back but the outer ends of the stage is much cleaner and deeper,topend detail is bit better to but not quite as extended,images are a little smaller but their relationships are more defined,but when you turn up the volume a bit the D2.1SE is like no other sub $k speaker I've heard they just get better and even bigger,they will rattle your teeth. This speaker is a amazing bargain when you factor in the build,parts,and most of all being able to play fullrange the right way,the more power the better,the better the source the better the D2.1SE will step up with each change in your system,and they are some of the most longterm listening speakers that I've heard,you can run through 10 cd's or lp's and be reaching for more that has to be the ultimate compliment. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2020 Registered: Jun-05 | Swan M1 Retail price $1499 usually around $700 to $900 Hybrid speakers with ribbons and dynamic drivers seem new to some people have been around for over a decade,1 of the 1st affordable entrants was the Swan M1 back in 1998 and the crossover and drivers have been tweeked a few years at a time,just without mkII variants on paper and so forth.The M1 is 1 of the best selling Montiors in Asia and Europe its a legend in Asia and other parts of the world.The M1 has a 1 inch thick hardwood cabinet with a leather front baffle,a iso-magnetic ribbon tweeter with a 5 inch Kevlar/Cellulose non weaven cone with a massive 3.5 pound magnet crossed over at 3.3k they weigh a sturdy 17 pounds a piece about what a Totem Arro's weigh. To say their overbuilt would be a gross understatement their beauty is a site to behold,all of these amazing parts adds up to best speaker under $1k that I've ever encountered although the Aurum Cantus Liesure MK2 Signiture would have a argument the Swan D2.1SE and the Wharfedale Evo2 8 put up a valiant effort.I plan to test the Leisure MK2 Sigs in the near future to confirm this,as of right now the M1 is the king of the mountain i can only imagine the battles these 2 speaker have been having in Asia for years. Well let me start with the treble they are as extended as any speaker I've ever heard with a purity and air that makes the best dome tweeters sound dirty in comparison.When a cymabal crashes with the M1's its crashes in all the directions that cymbal radiates at,you can hear sax's and trumpets in their full glory with extreme detail with all the reeds being revealed.Female voices are handled with amazing extension,when Celene Dionne sings you can really really hear what makes her voice special,all phrases are brought to fore without reservation,and in all these events dynamics are in their full glory you can hear brass scream out in a breathtaking realistic manner,thats rare to hear,and its all very smooth to boot. The midrange and tweeter work hand in hand to produce the most coherant persentation from a ribbon/conedriver hybrid that I've ever heard and they very much rival full electrostatics like Maggies and Quads.Coherencey also rivals the best I've heard from 2 way monitors,except for maybe the Pro Ac Tabblelite Sigs and the original versions of the Ls3/5a montiors.Their speed is faster than the Maggie SMGc that i have on hand which is a amazing feat for a box speaker. Timbre's were 1st rate you really can tell the contrast of the different images in the soundstage,the timing was awsome the strike of a snare drum,the crash of cymbal,the strike of piano in the upperranges all come sudden and leave just as sudden.the M1's play upper chords of a hammond organ as good as I've heard,their relationships with images from front to back and side to side is amazing,the micro dynamics are special for a monitor.Most recordings on most speakers except for the very best make you think when the music has dead spots the M1 shows you that it doesent that music has contstant flow,at all times no matter how mellow or how dynamic the music is. Then theres the bass which is woven into the fabric of the rest of the music,they have a very very realistic rendition of the kickdrum,and synths and aucustic bass's dont sound like extensions of wooden cabinets like most speakers under $2k,i guess that hardwood cabinet,leather front baffle,and 3.5 pound magnet has soemthing to do with that.Low frequenceys were very quick and natural to they had real swing,the bass gave the reltionship and differences between kickdrums and bongo's as good as I've heard which is hard for any speaker.Piano's were awsome i can literally tell the differences between Yamaha's and Rolands,my jaw is still on the floor,its 2:11 a.m. and i wanna go listen to them now.In conclusion this speaker is awsome and a flatout Whyatt Earp bank robbery for the price,it is the overall winner of this Shootout,The Evo2 8 and D2.1SE turned in monster performances,but the M1 is a true highend reference monitor that is trully special in every regard,thank you all for listening and hope this is all helpful for you respective buyers in the under $1k pricerange. |
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New member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 2 Registered: Apr-09 | Well, what can I say but, thanks a million for such detailed reviews of the Wharfedale and Swan lines! I've been reading reviews for some time now while I search for a pair of good "budget" speakers and, unfortunately, most of the professional reviews tend to read like the most incomprehensible, one-off reviews of $500 wines - no comparators, vague techno-speak and every speaker's a complete revelation at it's price point! Please. :{ You've done a great service here in taking the time to pick good music and the logical sequence of Wharfedale comparators. I know that's not their forte but, in the real world, they'll have to just deal with it sometimes! My only request, if you still have the time for more play is to present the EVO2 and Diamond 9.1 with a bit of a stronger bass challenge (a bit of reggae, Zeppelin, Jaco Pastorius, etc.). Not sure if the Swans would be a good comparator or not. At any rate, you've maybe sold a pair of EVO2-8's today. What finish did you order? Thanks again. I've a few more questions but, I don't want to immediately clutter up the conversation so I'll hold them for now. |
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New member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 3 Registered: Apr-09 | One more clarification on my post above: I see from the spec sheets that the Diamond 9.1 reaches a bit lower in the bass range that the Evo2-8 (50Hz vs 65Hz, respectively). I'm wondering how that difference sounds and feels when the speakers are challenged in the low range. Thanks for your thoughts. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2021 Registered: Jun-05 | The 9.1's do not reach lower than the Evo2 8 in the whitepapers the Evo2 8 is 10db down at 45 htz the diamonds are actually tuned at the port at 48htz,the reading for the 9.1's is 50 htz at 6db right around where the port resonance is.The port resonance for the Evo2 8 is probably around 43 htz,the 9.1's initial feeling would be that they go deeper,but they have a bass hump where their up about 3db's between 120 to 80 htz,to actually give the illusion of deep bass,their bass sounds big,but you dont feel it like the Evo's which play organ peddle notes while the Diamonds sound smeared in that area,and beleive me none of that stuff you listed goes as low as Erica Badu "Baduism" she has synthesisers thru the whole CD that reach down to the mid teens,the Evo2 8's and both Swans did a very good job in the 80 to 50htz range. |
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New member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 4 Registered: Apr-09 | Have to read your post again to make sure that I really understand that level of detail. I was simply quoting the specs from the (pretty spartan) Wharfedale website. Is the "whitepaper" you cite a seperate review source? My other question is whether in your tests you biwired any of the speakers and, whether in your view it would really make any difference to their performance (?) Thanks |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 109 Registered: Jan-09 | My mouth is watering and my wallet is trying to get out of my pocket. I can't afford the Swan's but I got to get me some Evo2 8's!. Let me know if you want to sell them. If not, I'm going to have a hard time not buying a pair by the end of the week. Looks like I will contribute to improving the economy! Great reveiw Tawaun. You confirmed what I've heard about the difference between the 9.1's and the Evo's. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9470 Registered: Feb-05 | Enjoyed the read TW. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2546 Registered: Oct-04 | Good work T. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2547 Registered: Oct-04 | Tawaun, do you think it's worth an extra $100 to bump up to the EVO2-10? |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1889 Registered: May-06 | Mordecai, allow me to share with you an experience I had a few years ago, before this forum, before I had the gear I have today. I had always been an audiophile at heart and was trying to move past a HT / Audio system to a dedicated 2-channel. I heard a pair of Legacy Audio stand mounts in a shop in suburban Chicago. The slam, impact, and presentation absolutely floored me. Then I sort of noticed they were running them off of the current at the time McIntosh's top HT Amp. I asked if I could hear them on an amp more like what I would be using. The result was dull and unimpressionable. You need to understand what was driving the speakers in Tawaun's shootout before you or anyone runs out and buys any of these speakers and expect similar results. You would have to match his source, pre-amp, amp, and wiring to come close. Note that I said match, not replicate. He normally runs much higher quality floor standing speakers off of his kit. |
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New member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 5 Registered: Apr-09 | As a newbie here, I've been roaming the reviews in trying to select a speaker for my office space in the house (totally musical use here). I've really appreciated reading the insights on this thread so, I'd like to ask your opinions of my current speaker options. The right hand speaker will have to go into a bookshelf space which is 16" deep so, I've more or less avoided looking at rear-ports but, some might still have 6" or so between the speaker and the wall. I should mention that I listen to a very wide variety of music on vinyl, tape and CD. My Yamaha 797 receiver is said to be OK in driving a 4 Ohm speaker if necessary. There'll be a small Aperion sub nearby assisting with the bass. So, here are the options that I've been looking at so far. Any thoughts you can share would be helpful. As it's difficult to find a good audio shop here in Raleigh that actually stocks the speakers for review (it's all about marketing AV systems here), the selections are largely based on my web research. So, it's possible that the choices may be a dogs breakfast in terms of differing sonic characteristics. Wharfedale Evo2-8 - Tawaun's write-up has me pretty interested in these front ports - though they will just fit into the space available. (The Diamond 9.2 is a bit too tall and the wife may not like the Diamond 9.1 laminate. She considers speakers to be unnecessary furniture). The Totem Dreamcatcher - I hope to hear these next week. It's hard to imagine all of these positive reviews coming from such a little box. Usher S-520 - A well reviewed front ported speaker. The reviews suggest that it does the mid and high ranges well - not sure about any lower end capabilities. NHT Classic 2 or 3 - Maybe not true contenders as NHT seems to be closing up shop. I don't know what to think about these but, the reviews seem positive. I know there may be other choices out there but, looking for a smallish, front ported monitor has been a challenge. Any thoughts on the above? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2022 Registered: Jun-05 | Fred the whitepapers is the extreme things that websites dont tell you,the owners manual is actually loaded with imformation I've never seen in a owners manual before.I called the distributor and he confirmed this,by the way the new Wharfedale distributor is the orginal U.S. distributor for the the Quad esl 57 & 63 in N.America,thats good stuff right there nice guy to. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2023 Registered: Jun-05 | Fred I have found that with Wharfedales biwireing makes a difference but only with high quality wires,a single run of good quality cables with a decent pair of jumpers,will work just as good,do not biwire with cheap cables,the sound will be worse. |
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New member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 6 Registered: Apr-09 | Great news on the new Wharfedale distributor. Hope that it works out for them this time. The retail dealers that I've spoken to around here are pretty fed up. They don't blame the company and they still sing the praises of the speakers but, they've stopped stocking them as it's apparently been just too much trouble to deal with the old distributor. Sad |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2024 Registered: Jun-05 | Thanks Art,Chris it depends on your wants i would'nt call the 10 better than the 8 or vice versa.You get more bass and dynamics with the 10 with the 8 better imaging and a very slightly better midrange,seems like you like 6.5's as me and Art would prefer the 5 incher,I do expect the 10 to be very very good. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2025 Registered: Jun-05 | Micheal is right Mordecai,you need a good setup for any of these speakers,on budget or HT its possible to favor the Diamonds over the Evo2's but with high quality gear the Evo2's are in another stratusphere.Mordecai I've had my Diamond 8.1's for nearly 10 years and on my current steup they have never sounded this good,they were always class leaders for the price,but its like this setup has lifted them from a great budget speaker to a great midpriced speaker.But if you plan on upgrading your gear,its better to go for the better speaker,no doubt about it. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 104 Registered: Dec-06 | Ahem http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0764507508 |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2026 Registered: Jun-05 | Fred all of those speakers you listed are very good,but i gotta say im not a fan of the NHT Classic 3,I owned the Dreamcatcher for a year,at the time i had a pair of the Forrest,Rainmakers,and the Arro's,I prefered the Dreamcatcher to the Rainmakers and the Forrest the gear i was running was a Unison Unico with upgreded Mullard tubes in the preamp section a Musical Fidelity 3.2 CDP with Totems WBT biwire cable and Totem WBT RCA connetors,the Arro's were Awsome on this setup they all were,the Dreamcatcher is a stupendous little speaker. |
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New member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 7 Registered: Apr-09 | I'm missing the point of the photography manual. Tawaun, I know that all of the speakers that I've mentioned are going to provide somewhat different approaches to the music. Any idea which if any of the 3 (EVO2, Usher, and DC) would provide sharper definition or a more distinct soundstage. I have read that hte DC is very broad in terms of it's sweet spot. That may be useful as my desk ain't movin'. The Usher and the EVOs are definely the best lookers though (IMHO). In my trip through the web (where the past never dies!) I saw that you were once big on the Dana 630s as well. Also a good looker. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2028 Registered: Jun-05 | Yes the 630's were pretty special,the DC's do image like bandits so do the lil Usher's but the Evo2 8 is superior they have a huge soundstage and big speaker dynamics,and they just cant create the Scale of the Evo2 8,and bloomin the midrange the tweeter on the Evo2 8is much better than all of your choices,Evo2 8 all the way. |
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New member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 8 Registered: Apr-09 | I was kind of hoping for that answer! I've been putting together the puzzle here and should be able to bring together all of the suspects into one room for a review next week from different audio stores. I'll have to substitute an EVO2-20 for the EVO2-8 but, the tonality should be fairly similar for a non-bass heavy refernce disc (e.g. Sonny Rollins or Steely Dan). |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12176 Registered: Dec-04 | Looking forward to that Fred, post pics! |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 110 Registered: Jan-09 | Good point Tawaun and Michael. But I really like the way the 9.1's sound with a HT receiver. Once I get the NAD 325 and a DAC I should see further improvements from the 9.1's and the Evo's right? I realize this would still be entry level equipment so I will not realize all the sound qualities you described. I just have a hard time not buying these speakers at that price. I can grow into them should I decide to further invest in equipment. At least my speakers would be set. To buy the speakers, NAD, and DAC will cost me about $500 if I sell my existing equipment. To me that is a reasonable amount to invest and will give me a good taste of a decent 2.0 system. This will probably satisfy me for a while. I may decide to upgrade the NAD and or DAC down the road. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2457 Registered: Jun-07 | Good sound for 500 bucks Mordecai. Good stuff. The NAD 325 is a very capable amp. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2498 Registered: Feb-07 | You'll undoubtedly want to upgrade the NAD and the DAC down the road, if you're anything like me. But you'd be surprised how good "entry level equipment" can sound. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1891 Registered: May-06 | David is right, the changes you are going to make should really satisfy you. Keep us in the loop as you assess your updates. |
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New member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 9 Registered: Apr-09 | OK, I've gotten my hands on a pair of the Totem Dreamcatchers for a trial. These things are tiny! I'll admit that I'm approaching these speakers with some skepticism given the raving reviews I've read for these little things. Anyway, I'll know more about how they'll perform with my simple receiver soon. In the meantime, I'm found a new problem that maybe someone can lend some advice on  . I'm using a fairly new Yamaha 797 2 channel receiver (100 watts per channel) which will only allow 1 set of 4 Ohm speakers to play at a time. Given the weird configuration of my rooms here, I'll often want to have both A & B speakers playing simultaneously. The second set of speakers may be the EVO2-8's we've been discussing. If so, they are 6 Ohm speakers. That gives me a totally unworkable resistance of only 2.4 Ohms (If I've done my math correctly). So, what to do? Can I play 4 and 6 Ohm speakers simultaneously if I get a speaker selector? I don't know much about how these things work except through my web trolling. If that will work, should I get an autoforming one or resistor-based? Volume controls or no? Any recommendations? ANY thoughts would be hugely appreciated for this unanticipated expense! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9484 Registered: Feb-05 | You're going to be playing the Deams with that receiver? You certainly won't get the best from them. That said I drove my Rainmakers with my Yammy HT receiver and it worked fine...for HT not for listening to music. As for the other question...play one set at a time and give the poor Yammie a break. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12207 Registered: Dec-04 | A speaker selector with an outoformer will work, I dont have a link. Adding a resistor in series is also possible, but the losses are more than negligible. |
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New member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 10 Registered: Apr-09 | Art, it's likely to be true that I won't get the full value from the Dreamcatchers with the Yamaha but, it is what it is. The attraction for me is to find a high quality speaker for a great price ($330/pair). Will there be room for an upgrade later? Sure but, that's the fun of all this isn't it? It's always going to get better. So, first impressions (I've unplugged the Aperion sub for this session): Bonnie Raitt - This is music I know well as I was sneaking into her concerts at Wolf Trap back in high school in the 70's. I'm starting here on her "Nick of Time" CD. Surprisingly clear top end on the first track (Nick of Time ). After two stanzas, there's a distinct bass note kicking in. Certainly not as solid and sharp as you might hope but, this is the real world (these speakers fit into the palms of a linked pair of hands!). Second tune is "I Will Not Be Denied" with a very solid bass track. Very solid mid-bass on the drums but, the deeper bass is calling out for the subwoofer. Overall, the vocal, cymbal and overall clarity of these speakers is striking. The slide guitar fairly jumps out at you - well spaced in front of the rhythm section. Just as promised, the speakers are very forgiving in their placement. I'm definitely off center here and moving around a bit still shows me to be within a very wide sweet spot. I've moved them in and out of the bookshelf and there's (surprisingly) no significant audible difference in bass tone. Moving onto Sara Chang's Debut album and the Fantasy on Carmen. The first impression is again of a very well defined soundstage. You can imagine feeling the change in tone and depth as she swings the violin towards and away from the microphone. I can't speak to the quality of the recording but, the reproduction here is striking with each note distinct with no slurring between. Last here is Robbie Robertson (I started with the Last Waltz but moved to his solo album). Fallen Angel is an almost over produced track which could really seem muddied in the wrong hands. None of that here. The background production is clearly distinct from the bass and vocals. It seems to come around them to wrap around and envelope you. This will take some continued listening and, again, Art is likely correct in his comments about using a non-audiophile amp here. I will say that the Yamaha appears to my 51 year old ears to be performing beautifully. I'm hearing these familiar tracks very differently than I did before hooking up the Totems. I don't think they're making it up on their own so, I have to assume that the speakers are unlocking nuances in the music that I wasn't able to access before - and that's meeting and exceeding my expectations and needs. P.S. I just got a new Soundsmith cartridge for my old B&O turntable yesterday and I can't wait to hear how the vinyl sounds now! Sorry this was so very, very long! I should note that these speakers came to me already broken in with over 100 hours played on them previously. |
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Bronze Member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 11 Registered: Apr-09 | Wow, sorry that I droned on for so long! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9487 Registered: Feb-05 | BTW I didn't say anything about a "non audiophile amp". We listen with what we have and what I have certainly isn't hi end so no judgement on my part. FWIW I think that the Yamaha's are better than they get credit for. My Yammie AVR is the oldest piece I own. And my ears are about to be 49...not far behind yours..lol! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2034 Registered: Jun-05 | The Yammie AVR wont sound very good with the DC's they are a true 1st order crossover to,the tweeter will sound bright and the they will sound congested. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12220 Registered: Dec-04 | TW, among the grouping and other recent standmount talk, where would you(all of us) place the Totem Model 1 in here? I saw a pair for sale and would like opinions, I have not heard them, for a while. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2035 Registered: Jun-05 | I need that picture shrinking site,anyone got that? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12222 Registered: Dec-04 | TW, if you look in Office, or Picture manager, they are already there, copied automatically. Use the resize and save to send. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9499 Registered: Feb-05 | I don't think Fred's Yammie is an AVR though I could be wrong. My Yamaha AVR drove the Rainamkers and never sounded bright...surprised me actually. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12223 Registered: Dec-04 | Or have Stu,MW et al pound you mercilessly into the ground until you can perform this function. And BTW, why thefuck havn't we pounded TW for his lack of pertinant skills, ha?Hmm?Ha? Try that man. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2037 Registered: Jun-05 | I'll try it Nuck.I actually liked the Model 1 Sigs better than the Mani-2 they sounded more balanced to me,I owned them for a short time but my Nad wasnt up to driving them the Arro's either but atleast they were bearable.The same rules apply to the Model 1 Sigs as a the Mani-2 Sig,very very good electronics andlotsof good power the Model 1's are over 15 years old and their still 1 of the very best mini-monitors around,but im not a fan of the SEAS metal dome tweeter,brass never sounded brassy and brash enough when i knew they should have. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12226 Registered: Dec-04 | The anniversary model, 'The One' uses a SEAS metal dome again, but it is chambered to sound better with more life, maybe just like you say, in brass. |
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Bronze Member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 12 Registered: Apr-09 | Google this from microsoft. It adjusts your photos. Imageresizerpowertoysetup.exe Worked like a champ for me when I had to post auto photos on autotrader.com |
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Bronze Member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 14 Registered: Apr-09 | The Yamaha is a 2 channel receiver. No appreciable brightness at all on the DCs Will likely keep a pair for office wall mounts. (If I can resolve the Ohm-age issue with a speaker selector). |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12238 Registered: Dec-04 | Did you look for a selector or volume control with an autoformer, Fred? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9503 Registered: Feb-05 | Must be enjoying those Dreams eh Fred...congrats, great office speaker. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2507 Registered: Feb-07 | What Yamaha receiver is it Fred? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9506 Registered: Feb-05 | "Yamaha 797 2 channel receiver (100 watts per channel) " To quote an earlier post. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2508 Registered: Feb-07 | My bad Art. I have a Yamaha 497 and it's actually quite a capable unit. Doesn't have any of that brightness that Yamaha is usually known for. |
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Bronze Member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 15 Registered: Apr-09 | The Yamaha seems to be performing just fine. It is the 797 - not an AV receiver but a 2 channel (still on the shelves, I think). Hard to say what the speakers would do otherwise but, the current set up seems to work well as I noted. Nuck, my read of the websites seems to indicate that the autoformer type of speaker selector is the way to go so as to ensure against any DC current flow. A bit more expensive and I don't know if all autoformers are the same but, it looks like this is not new technology by any means. Not sure if I need volume controls. Opinion on that? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12242 Registered: Dec-04 | Again, I just made that suggestion, Fred. That solution may not be elegant or useful. Worst case is to leave the volume all the way up. The suppliers of these controls would be the source for what you actually want, of course. The resistor is simple...but ugh. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2039 Registered: Jun-05 | Update: its been a busy day,1 of the kids at my daughters school caught the Swine Flu,so we took her to the doctor just to be safe,her just getting over Kawasaki's desease we have to be really careful for a year after the desease hit so the next 8 month we have to really keep a eye on her. Now for a much happier update,that some of you wil be glad to hear.The Swan D2.1SE has evened things up with the current leader the Swan M1,i was really playing the 2.1's like i would a Dynaudio with the grills on,which was a mistake,as a result they are nearly as detailed as the M1 in the topend though not nearly as extended a little more break in helps the D6.8 woofer loosen up.Now they are sounding tighter and more dynamic than before and even deeper in the bass,they actually bested the T700's in the bass yesterday and they have 2 rear firing 8's. More updates: The Evo2 8 has taken a huge leap in performance to pull even with both Swans.Wharfedale takes a really long time to really break in,for some reason the Diamond 9.1's & 9.0's didnt but it took about 500+ hours for my 8.1's to really settle in,the Evo2 8's have become even more dynamic but with many layers of music,unravleling,and the bass wow! they realy go deep when the music calls for it,and the tweeter is still coming along.For a soft dome the Evo2's tweeter is nearly as extended as the iso-ribbon in the M1,and as they break in more i think they will match them in extension,in freespace according to the owners manual/whitepapers they are 45khz at -10db,thats rediculous for a softdome.These tweeters have that very powerful low treble that makes you feel instruments resonating thru your body like Sax's,Tuba's,Trumpets,Flugglehorns,Violin's,Vocals,upper strings like only the best dome tweeters can,boy...Scanspeak,Vifa,Dynaudio,Morel,and others are lucky that Wharfedale doesent sell oem,the bass has such texture,the whole speaker does,Depth in the soundstage has reached gigantic status,its almost scary how much better this speaker will get with more breakin they have very high quality crossover parts to which is 1 of the reasons the breakin is a true process with the Evo2 8's,im sure the Evo2 8's would measure flat as a board on John Atkinson's test bench. With the $359 pricetag at STO they are the absolute best buy for speakers in the hi-fi world right now absolutely minblowing for $359. All three of these speakers are phonominal performers,All with their own unique personalities,but as they break in thats all dissapearing and they are starting to sound more similar,equiviliant to how super highend speakers are.So this begs the question how much has speakers under $2k really improved in the last 5 years,it seems they have taken a giant step since then,but you have to look at this to companies like Wharfedale and Swan,design and manufacture every part on their speakers,so they have total control on what goes into the speaker a much bigger advantage from companies that outsource.The more i looked at these speakers builds,the more i was impressed their is no clear winner in the build quality department,sure the M1's takes the luxury awards for their leather front baffle,and solid hardwood cabinet,but the D2.1SE's black laqure is equally impressive with a deep deep dark sheen among the best laqure's I've seen,the Evo2 8's satin finsh is unlike any other I've seen or felt you really have to look closely to tell,according to the Wharfedale manual/whitepaers a great great deal goes into the finish and the cabinet and of course the drivers are top notch,well sorry about the wait on the pics,but i will get them up as soon as i can....well back off to listen some more! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3649 Registered: Sep-04 | I never ever ever play Dynaudios with the grilles on! They go all muffly and veiled by comparison. Grilles are there for aesthetics and not performance in Dynaudio's case. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2041 Registered: Jun-05 | Very true Frank,i should have known that considering how closely related the D2.1SE's drivers are related to the Dynes. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12251 Registered: Dec-04 | Like with our Totems frank, they don't even bother with the grilles. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2043 Registered: Jun-05 | Yep the HiVi Q1R tweeter and D6.8 woofer are deffinetly cut from the same sonic cloth as the Dyne drivers in virtually every way,which is a very good thing in my book. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 116 Registered: Jan-09 | Tawaun - I got my NAD 325 and DAC tdoay. I have not really had a chance to listen yet. I got an email from STO today and the Evo2 8 is on sale again for $299. Do you think the NAD has enough to hear the quality of the Evo's? Several people mentioned to me that I might not hear the same things you do since your equipment is much better than mine. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2045 Registered: Jun-05 | You will not hear the same things,but it should atleast be decent until you can get something better,its a process Mordecai,all of us on here have been thru many system evolutions,you just have to figure out what part of a system you wanna build around.Me personally i would build around my source and preamp,most members around here build around their speakers,its all the same its like when your kid gets happy meals,if you take them to McDonalds enough,they will eventually end up with all the action figures. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 119 Registered: Jan-09 | As long as they sound better than the 9.1 (not that they sound bad) than I think the extra $100 is worth it. And your right, should I decide to upgrade and I can grow into the speakers. What equipment would be the logical next step for me? Not that I'm going to do it anytime soon but I'm curious about the $ investment to make the Evo's really sing. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12266 Registered: Dec-04 | I think your enjoyment level might meet the supposed previously intoned butgetary limitations, Mord. Good news is, we get to find some nice integrateds for our friend! I suggest previously loved units! http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/127249-rega_brio_mint_condition/ |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 124 Registered: Jan-09 | Nuck, is the brio better than the NAD? I hope not cause I spent more on the NAD. Of course I live in Texas so it may cost more in the states. Are you Canucks fan? I'm a Stars fan and I really miss the playoffs. Best playoff in all of sport and I'm huge football fan. The Stanley Cup is a wild ride. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9525 Registered: Feb-05 | Depends on who you ask Mordecai. I like the Brio a bit better and it has a phono stage...a good one. The NAD is a fine amp though and has a remote. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2047 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah,I'll take the Brio,much more musical,and it times much better,and like Art said you get a phono stage to boot and a Rega phonostage at that. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 131 Registered: Jan-09 | I am actually considering the Mira as a next purchase. I think I can pick up a used one in a year or so for $600-$700. Hopefully I will have to spend $300-$400 out of pocket if I sell the NAD. I hate to say it guys but I'm not into LP's. I don't own one.  |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2585 Registered: Oct-04 | I can't stop thinking about the EVO2-10, I need an audition ASAP. I might need to unload some gear to make room (and help pay) for them if said audition goes well. I'm thinking I'll hand off the Beta 20 to my brother (I can't part with them), sell his Alpha 20, sell my Tekton 4.5, maybe sell my Infinity SW210 sub, which while nice, I hardly ever engage, and sell off my Trends T-Amp. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2049 Registered: Jun-05 | I dont think i would sell the Trends amp,you should mod it and get the preamp and power supply get another 1 and monoblock them,so much neat stuff you can do with them. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2586 Registered: Oct-04 | I've thought about doing that very thing T with the T-Amp (minus the mod). There's only one place in NYC that sells (or sold) Wharfedale that I know of; I'm going to see if they have the EVO2 series in stock, but if I recall, the place is amongst the lousiest demo spaces I've encountered. I tend to lean towards the sound of BIGGER monitors, but the 10's are $160 more than the 8's right now. Given the discount on the 8's, maybe there's some wiggle room on the 10's? But I doubt it. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12340 Registered: Dec-04 | Curious about the Tektons... |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2587 Registered: Oct-04 | I know you are my friend, if I go this route, you'll be the first to know. I've also got that Kenwood KR6600... |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 132 Registered: Jan-09 | Got the Evo's yesterday. I've not really had a lot of time to listen because of some car projects. But, I can say I'm hearing things in the music I've not heard before. They are very detailed for sure. How long of a break in for these speakers? I know the Diamonds to some time to break in. Once I get some time to listen and move them around I will post more of my impressions. The one bad thing is one of the speaker grills/cover was broken. Three of the four plastic pins broke off in the hole during shipping. Not a real big thing cause I prefer them without the covers. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2591 Registered: Oct-04 | Congrats on the Evo2, I look forward to your impressions. Call me petty, but I like my speakers to arrive intact, grills & all; I'd give someone a call. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9553 Registered: Feb-05 | Congrats on the Evo's Mord...call the dealer and get a new grill. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 133 Registered: Jan-09 | Yeah, I think I will give him a call tomorrow. I'm trying to figure out how to get the plastic pins out without boogering them up. The feel like the pull out but I'm not sure. Three of the pins broke off in the speaker. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2592 Registered: Oct-04 | This is not the first time I've heard of this happening with Wharfedale grills. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9556 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm afraid to mess with mine so I leave them off...then again the same could be said of my Rega's and Epos. Can you believe I still have the Beta 20's, Gave my wife's daughter the Bosteon A120's instead because they are actually better...dadburnit they are takin' up room in my closet. I'll put 'em up for sale on CL this weekend. They'll find a good home and make beautiful music somewhere. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 134 Registered: Jan-09 | I still have mine too. I really like them but I don't have a place or use for them. I'm giving them to my daughter. She just moved into her first house. I watched a used pair sell for $60 on Ebay and decided not to mess with selling them. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2593 Registered: Oct-04 | I would love for you to do a side by side comparison of the EVO2-8 & the Beta 20 before they ship out to your daughter. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 135 Registered: Jan-09 | They are sitting right here so it would be easy to do. Maybe this weekend I will do it. The EVo's are sounding better they more the play. I've been startled a few times already by sounds in music I've not heard before. |
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Bronze Member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 16 Registered: Apr-09 | Mordecai, a couple of questions on your Evo2's. How do they look and what color did you get? I'm still looking to purchase a pair but I need to manage through the WAF. I saw that STO sent you an e-mail promotion for $299. Do you know if that's still in effect? Thanks! |
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Bronze Member Username: DmdmdmdPost Number: 17 Registered: Apr-09 | Well, I called Mike at STO and you were right - $299 for the EVO2-8 speakers. That ended the decision process right there and I ordered a pair in rosewood. These are very sharp looking speakers and I'm just way excited to hear them! Here's a not very focused photo of the rosewood speakers. They're actually very glossy with a nice shine from the kevlar. http://xn--av-xc7iz4g.com/img/product_s/5169_s.jpg So, thanks loads for your post mordecai! By the way, the Dreamcatchers that I purchased earlier were not the broken in test set that I originally auditioned. These new ones are taking forever to break in! The manufacturer specified 80 to 100 hours (amazing). I've got 50 hours on them now and they're just starting to open up. |
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New member Username: CammerPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 | Wait until those evo2 8 are broken and your in for an eargasm ! I've got the 10's AMAZING |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 116 Registered: Dec-06 | My cheap little Energy C-1 speakers have grills that attach with magnets. You just hold the grill up to the speaker and they snap right in place. Pulls off nice and easy too. I know some other speakers have this feature but I can't understand why all of them don't, it just seems like a real logical and easy solution. Those pins feel real flimsy on my Tannoys. I don't even try to attach the grills. The grills on the Quad 12L feels much sturdier though. Could be the same ones as used on the Wharfedales perhaps, I'm not sure. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2594 Registered: Oct-04 | Quad & Wharfedale are both IAG companies (as is Mission), so you never know? The grills on the Beta 20 are metal, so they ain't breaking off without a fight ;) |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 136 Registered: Jan-09 | Fred, I got the black ones. And the cabinets are first rate. They come in pillow case coverings and they include white gloves also. I can tell a difference in the sound (lower end) after 5 hours of listening. I can't wait for them to be fully broken in. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9564 Registered: Feb-05 | Actually Chris one of my previous Beta 20's had the inner grille separate from the metal outer...nothing fatal but it could rattle if played loud enough. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2595 Registered: Oct-04 | Well that's not good. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12363 Registered: Dec-04 | I didnt even get bloodygrilles, LOL! Look better without, anyhow |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 137 Registered: Jan-09 | Chris - Why are you interested in comparing the 20's to the EVO's? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2596 Registered: Oct-04 | I've always been fond of Wharfedale, and all this clamoring over the EVO2 lately have piqued my interest again in them, especially given STO's price. But that's not to say I'm ready to bail on the Betas...yet; and while can't justify the cost of an upgrade at this time, I am still curious. I'd like to read how you think the two compare & contrast. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2597 Registered: Oct-04 | Very nice, but I don't live in Europe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0ytg6b9gWo http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/wharfedale/floorstanding-speakers/diamond-9-3/PRD _339905_1594crx.aspx |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 138 Registered: Jan-09 | I'm really liking the EVO's. I'm getting used to listening without the assistance of treble and bass. At the suggestion of someone here I turned them off. I've always monkeyed with them. I also had Itunes equalizer settings on and I have that turned off too. The low end is improving and I believe it will continue improve as did the Diamonds. In fact, after 30 or so hours with the Diamonds the low end easily matched the 20's. When I compared the 20's against the 9.1's the 9.1's won based on mid range and the tweeter. But, for you Chris, I will compare the two again. This time I will listen to them in my office using the NAD and DAC. I've not heard the 20's using them (used the HK146 AVR and Onkyo 705 AVR). It may improve their midrange. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2598 Registered: Oct-04 | Thanks. Which DAC did you wind up with? |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 139 Registered: Jan-09 | I got the Super DAC 707 http://www.aloaudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_4&product s_id=197 It costs me $125 shipped. I'm sure I will upgrade down the road especially if I move to the Rega Mira next year. I'm happy with it so far. It has received positive reviews. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2599 Registered: Oct-04 | Sorry to be a pest, but in addition to the increased connectivity, how is the sound different with and without it? |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 140 Registered: Jan-09 | Do you mean the DAC? Well I must have the DAC since I use my PC for music and it only has a digital out. I really have no experience or point of reference when it comes to the sound of DAC's. I have a cheap Kenwood CD player and I just bought some decent stereo cables to connect directly to the NAD. I should get a good comparison between the CD DAC and the Super Pro. Then I have an HDCD I can use to compare since I have the same CD on my harddrive. All my music files are lossless audio. The CD player hooked with optical audio through the DAC sounded harsh and lifeless. I've heard that optical audio doesn't sound as good as coaxial now I know first hand. Man, these EVO's are opening up right before my eyes. I am really enjoying listening to them. They are a better version of the 9.1's. As much as you like the 20's you've got to get a pair especially at that price. I hate to let the 20's (giving to my daughter) and the 9.1's go but I need to the money to pay for the new equipment and I just don't have a place or receiver/amp for them. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2050 Registered: Jun-05 | Chris the Beta 20's will not be close to the Evo2,their just a much better speaker.Since you lke the Beta 20's being their a big monitor,you'll love the Swan D2.1SE,they are awsome. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2052 Registered: Jun-05 | Nuck i am curious about the Tektons to,as a matter of fact I talked with the desiner yesterday,really nice guy,I actually want a pair,he has a as extinsive line of moldels as Omega does,and he has some killer finishes.He thinks with my Class A power,it would be midrange heaven,and thats the heaven im looking for.So who wants to buy the M1 or the Evo2 8's?! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12377 Registered: Dec-04 | I dig, TW. 300wpc of Classe Class A is hard to beat. Had all Straight A for a long time, surprised you took so long.  |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2600 Registered: Oct-04 | I don't doubt the EVO2, and I would expect them to outclass the Betas, but I'd like to read about the two compare. Tawaun, have you ever heard, or heard of, those Diamond 9.3 monitors with a 8" mid/woofer? I don't think they've found there way stateside. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 141 Registered: Jan-09 | Okay Chris, I just finished comparing the 20's and the Evo's. I compared six songs including acoustic rock, folk, pop, instrumental and film scores. I sat six feet away. I listened to the Beta's first as I've not heard them in a while or with the Nad 325 and DAC. I see why I liked them and the NAD made them sound much better than the HK AVR. They have a big sound and the tweeter does a nice job overall. Not to bright, imaging was good and soundstage was okay. Bass is prominent with these speakers. They did not sound boomy as in my last comparison. During Seville from Mission Impossible two they became congested because of the bass so I guess that is a crossover issue. Mid range was good also through most of the songs. Now the EVO's. All I can say is I'm in love. I immediately noticed a deeper soundstage, better imaging, clarity and tonal balance. No colorization as the instruments sounded life like. The tweeter picked up on delicate sounds the 20's missed. Bass was tight and properly balanced. All instruments were clearly evident. The result for me was an enveloping experience with a feeling of being emersed in the music. I was drawn in more so than the 20's. Hands down the EVO's won. Just a better representation of the instruments and music. I'm sure you have better equipment then I so you will even benefit more so with these speakers. I really feel like I'm experiencing the music when listening to the EVO's they are that enveloping. I hope that helps you. Keep in mind that the EVO's only have about 10 hours on them and they 20's have at least 40 hours so the EVO's will open up even more. I'm listening to a film score by Chrisopher Young right now and all I can say about these speakers is wow! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2601 Registered: Oct-04 | Great write-up Mordecai, thanks. I'm throwing this out there for anyone to answer, might the midrange shortcomings of the Beta 20, in comparison to the smaller 9.1, or the previous comparison by Art to the Primus 152, be a result of the 20's larger driver in addition to any crossover shortcomings? Or maybe more to the point, does a larger driver pose any inherent obstacle to midrange reproduction? Is it any either or situation? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12380 Registered: Dec-04 | The limitations are in the hands of the designers, CM. Anyone can under-use the potential of a driver, but is it affordable? Is it better to stretch the componant to its very limits to over-achieve? Thats why we listen and evaluate and share opinions, I guess. Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 142 Registered: Jan-09 | Good question Chris. I was thinking the same thing while listening. I know Art prefers the small driver and speaks alot about tonality. I would be curious to hear the EVO 10's to see how Wharfedale manages the bigger driver. Nuck maybe right regarding the designer. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9570 Registered: Feb-05 | Not sure I prefer the m Mordecai...just bought 'em because there was a really god deal on 'em. Speking of small drivers. After several weeks of enjoying my 9.1's I put 'em in the closet for awhile so I can enjoy my ELS3's. Very nice. All of the electronics have to warm up....just back up after a 10 hr power outage. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2053 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah,the Evo2 8 creates a cave of sound,their soundstage is carnivourus,they have 1 of the biggest soundstages I've ever heard in any room.Not only that their images breath like real people,real saxes,real piano's ect...very very reminisceent of the some Quad ESL's,sometimes i get worried and go check the speakers because of their explosive dynamics and scale,its trully amazing to hear them perform,especially while your looking at their dimunitive size. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2054 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah....Nuck Class A power is like a addicting drug,once you have it you cant ever be without it,a alternative is the tripath amps,they share many of Class A traits.Now that the Trends tube preamp is out,im thinking about them with Trends amps modded running mono's with the Tektons should be for a awsome experiance. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2055 Registered: Jun-05 | You know its funny someone brought up the lil Usher S-520,I done a little more research on them,they are coming out with passive bass stands for them,they have the pictures on the Usherusa website,they look amazing the bass driver is sidemounted up high like the Rega's this could be groundbreaking for this price class,furthermore the S-520 has won more awards in the last decade than any other speaker by a long way to even more importantly they have done this on every continent,hey with that kind of clout from all these different creeds of music and people they have to be good or really rather great I've never seen any other product with this kind of global impact,they are already legends in their own time and by the time their done they may be the most legendary speaker of all time.In further reading everything about each speaker is tested and recorded and filed the drivers are matched a 0.2 db tollerance thats $50k speaker territory,they have now piped my interrest big time,i know im gonna get a pair of these undoubtably! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2056 Registered: Jun-05 | Chris i think for a short time Canada sold the 9.3's but i dont think they do anymore,the U.S.has never had them,and their are no reviews on them anywhere.8 inch Kevlar is to big to be effective in a 2-way in the midange the material is always been heavy to begin with,the biggest you would go is 6.5 as far as i know knowone has every been successful with a 8 inch Kevlar driver for the midrange. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 143 Registered: Jan-09 | Tawaun - It's funny but when listening to the EVO's with a live performance I felt as though I was at the concert meaning you can feel the emotion of the artist. I experienced this several times but mostly with a live performance. I have a live performance by Kelly Clarkson playing a piano and singing "Beautiful Disaster" and you can feel the emotion. The sound stage is that eveloping that you are litterally drawn into the performance. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2602 Registered: Oct-04 | T, I never heard of a 2-way with a 8" either, but I doubt Wharfedale would put out crap. Monitor Audio makes a 7", and isn't the Mani-2 a 7"? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12393 Registered: Dec-04 | The Totem is 4X 6.5" Dynaudio drivers, CM. The PSB B25 is a 7" |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12394 Registered: Dec-04 | Well, the PSB website says 6.5, but the pair that I demo'd was not the same as the pic there. Huh. http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/Image-Series/Image-B25-Monitor |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12395 Registered: Dec-04 | As a side note, all of the Evo range list an in-room Max SPL of around 108db. Yes, thats a lot, but not in comparison to others, and kinda low for listening from another room, or listening from outside an open window. That may not really matter so much. |
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Bronze Member Username: SlappyjonesPost Number: 15 Registered: Aug-08 | I use Youtube quite a bit to look up speakers.Every once in a while you find something decent.Here is the Wharfy 9.3.The song is in Czech but I must admit I kinda like it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0ytg6b9gWo |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3656 Registered: Sep-04 | Just to put things right, the Mani-2s are 2x6.5" main drive units per speaker in an isobaric configuration. Wilson benesch Arcs use 7" drive units. Some Naim speakers use/d 8" drive units in (somewhat odd) 2-way configurations - Intros, Credos, SBLs, Allaes and SL2s Dynaudio make an unusual monitor called the DM2/8 which is a two way with 8" drive unit. There's also a DM2/10 which uses a 10" unit! I've not heard either, but would be interested in doing so - they remind me a bit of the older Audience range. Of course, what constitutes an 8" drive unit is rather contested. Where does one measure the unit? From the outside of the basket, the outside of the complete unit, the inside of the frame, or the inside of the surround (i.e. just the cone)? Much disagreement on this... |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 144 Registered: Jan-09 | I just replaced an older digital coaxial cable with a BJC Belden 1694A cable and wow did it open up the EVO's. It added depth and clarity I was not hearing before. Man I'm loving these EVO's. Anyone want to buy my Diamonds? I'm getting ready to put them up for sale. They are barely 60 days old and have about 30-50 hours on them. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12425 Registered: Dec-04 | hehe, good that you are having fun, Mord. It is fun to look back on your passage. Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2057 Registered: Jun-05 | Actually guys I've seen plenty of 8 inch 2-ways the 70's had loads of them,I meant 8 inch kevlar.Its very heavy to begin with as a material,its a reason Why Whafedale uses Carbon-Fiber in the Opus series in the bass drivers and B&W uses a Kevlar paper mix for their bass drivers ,Wharfedale uses 3 inch midrange domes for the midrange.Its been stated before i think by B&W that they would used no bigger than 6.5 in the midrange if its Kevlar its a very heavy material,thats why you never see it that big in the midrange or even the bass for that matter just a few speakers like the 9.6's & 9.3 the bigger the kevlar the more it starts to lose its excellent stiffness and self dampning properties,which has made it a great driver material in the 1st place. |
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Silver Member Username: MordecaiTexas Post Number: 147 Registered: Jan-09 | Tawaun - Did you compare the EVO2 8's and 10's? If so, what are the differences? |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2519 Registered: Jun-07 | "Actually guys I've seen plenty of 8 inch 2-ways the 70's had loads of them" What are the 70's? LOL!!! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9635 Registered: Feb-05 | I had a pair of B&W 610's just last year that were a 2 way 8 inch...and they were pretty darn good. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2061 Registered: Jun-05 | As far as i know Art the older 600 series used papercones,well apparently Usher thinks bigger Kevlar is good to,they make a 7 inch Kevlar driver,thats in their Parts Express Usher UA711 kit and 2 of them in their MTM kit.The UA711 which i know for sure is a sealed design,and maybe the MTM as well,1 of the 2 is pretty high on my to get list. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12435 Registered: Dec-04 | The heavier Kevlar would make a lot more sense as a big bass driver in a sealed design, I think, without having to huff and puff all the mass through excursion. Maybe it surrenders under spl duress, maybe not. If the speaker is not expected to do 110 in room, might be nice and tight. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9637 Registered: Feb-05 | My old B&W's had a poly driver TW. Yeah Nuck...no speaker of mine is expected to do anywhere near 100db. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12437 Registered: Dec-04 | Not with those little amps Art, LOL! Kidding ya man. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12438 Registered: Dec-04 | Stones..Sticky Fingers On net radio |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 9642 Registered: Feb-05 | Hey...I like my puny amps, they fit my puny house just fine. Honestly we don't have an amp over 50 watts per side...coool! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2064 Registered: Jun-05 | The Brits think smaller amps are more musical than big muscle amps,I think there's some truth to it in some cases. |
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