Best receiver for Paradigms? (Hawk)
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Rick | I have Paradigm Titans, ADP-170 and CC-170s with PDR-10. I currently have an Onkyo SR600. While I am quite happy with it, it seems I max out the center channel at 3/4 volume because i get a slight crackle to certain tones. So i am looking to upgrade receivers around the $800 and less mark. I've read Yamaha's are too bright, but I like the 1400. I've read NADs are cool, but have a lot of bugs. I was also looking at the Pioneer 53tx. I know about Marantz, Outlaw, etc but have no idea how any of those options will compliment my Paradigms. Hawk- I've read you both say Yamaha and NAD works well with the Paradigm. Which is better for 80% movies and 20% music? I won't listen to music often, but of course want it to sound full and precise. I'm nervous about NADs because they aren't local so I can't hear and I've read about bugs. Is Yamaha going to be too bright? I also need the same specs as my Onkyo 600 has, DTS, PL 2, EX, ES, 6.1 etc and multichannel for SACD. The 600 is also only 80 wpc and it seems I may need slightly more, maybe around 100 wpc? |
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elitefan | If you like the Onkyo consider the new Onkyo 801 or the 800 if you can find one. The 800 has more power than the 600 or 601, more inputs and better remote. I would also look at the Integra 7.3 and the NAD line. I would avoid Yamaha due to their poor power supplies and thin sound. |
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elitefan | Correction to above post. The remotes on the 601 and 800 are the same. Sorry. |
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Rick | Avoid Yamaha? Really? What about the Marantz SR7300ose? It seems to have some nice features, will that compliment the Paradigms? I've read a few places that Onkyo has a flat sound that isn't dynamic, which is why I haven't really thought about staying with Onkyo. Any thoughts on that? Also, I've looked at the NAD t752 and while I'm not thrilled about the looks of it, I don't know anything about it-and how it sounds with the Paradigms. I'll check out the Integra, isn't that Onkyo's twin sister or second cousin? |
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elitefan | Rick, Marantz receivers are laid back as are the Paradigms so not best match IMO. Integra is Onkyo's upper line and very good units. I think Onkyo with Paradigm is ok but maybe you should consider the Denon 2803. I have had mixed luck with Denon but with Paradigm maybe worth a listen. |
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Rick | elitefan- You think the Denon would sound better with the Pardigms over HK or Pioneer? Also, what about NAD? |
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elitefan | I had a Denon 2802 and liked it alot. It sounded good with my old Def Techs and my Paradigm Atoms in my kitchen. I then bought a Denon 3803 and it was terrible with both speakers. All I can say is it's worth a listen. I have not heard the 2803 but it has gotten good reviews. I am not a Denon fan at all but you be the judge. All I am pointing out is that Elite and H/K are warmer receivers than most others and maybe not best with your Paradigms. I do have a Elite45 and still have my Atoms and they sound ok but I don't listen to the Atoms that much.NAD receivers are rather warm also. I would just say listen to as much as you can and buy what sounds best to you. |
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Rick | (You have Atoms in the kitchen? hehe) Ok, so you're saying I don't want a warm or a laid back receiver? Are the Paradigms considered warm then? I read that's why the Yamaha's would sound good because the brightness and warmth would compliment. Too bad about the Marantz, I was liking the 7300. Now I'm nervous about the Denon if you think the newer models don't sound as good. So I guess I need a slightly bright forward receiver? |
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elitefan | Yes I would consider the Paradigms on the warm side. Like I said you should listen to as many receivers as you can. I have not heard the 2803 so can't say what it sounds like. Try the Yamaha also but between the two I would prefer the Denon on past experience with both. |
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Rick | I know my local dealer has Paradigms hooked up to a Marantz, not sure what else. But I'll check them out. I've also read a lot of good things with NAD and Paradigm. Someone mentioned that Paradigm mentions using NAD to push their speakers. |
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Rick | Just came across this- http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/3401/ratevsac.htm It seems Marantz is a slight underpowered but at .05% THD while NAD is more honest with their wpc but at .08% THD. While thew Yamahas were at .04% THD and pretty honestly powered. What's your take on that and how important is the THD rating? |
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elitefan | Rick, I took a look at the site above and that chart is made up of mostly discontinued models like the Marantz 7200 which had terrible 5 channel ratings. The current 7300 has a much better power supply so that problem has been solved. As said you'll have to listen to as many units as you can. All of these receivers have good thd ratings, so low they are meaningless anymore. Listento as many units as you can. Have fun and good luck. |
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Rick | So the think the Marantz 7300 or 7300ose would sound good with my Paradigms? I've narrowed it down the Denon 3803 (bad remote/bad bass management), NAD T762 and the Marantz 7300 (or 7400 when it debuts) I'm wondering where Hawk is, lol. I read he didn't like the Marantz-Paradigm match which is depressing and I like Denon but the remote and bass management is suspect. The NAD may be the best option, but I can't demo it locally. |
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Hawk | Rick: I often have other things to do besides surf this board! LOL! Regardless of receiver, you will do better with a bunch more power. The Paradigms are an interesting speaker--good efficency but they really need more power than your Onkyo has to shine. I like the Onkyo 600 for the money, but the receivers you list are a real step up in class. I would recommend the NAD T 762 for your speakers--I have heard it a number of times at my local Paradigm dealer and that is a combination that really sings. However, I am very partial to the Marantz 7300, but I began to question my judgment a bit when elitefan told us he thought that the Marantz was more laid back than his Pioneer Elite. Well, the last thing a Paradigm speaker needs is a "laid back" sounding receiver (pass the No-Dooz, please!). I expressed my caution on that combination as a result, but decided I had to resolve this question in my mind. I went back to a local Marantz dealer recently (who is no doubt sick of seeing me) and listened carefully to the Marantz 7300 and I have concluded that my first impression was closer to the truth. It is ever so slightly laid back (not nearly so much as a H/K or Elite), but it is more "sweet" sounding than laid back. A sweet sounding receiver is the thing that I find is very rare, but very desirable. I think the NAD also has a sweet sound, as well. The upshot of all of this is that I think that the Marantz is a good combo--especially if you get the "ose" model as it has the better power supply--with the Paradigms. I still like the NAD better, but the Marantz should give you a really nice system. BTW, the Denon is pretty good sounding with the Paradigms, as well, but you are right about the remote. I can't stand it. |
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geekboy | Hawk, you write that the last thing a Paradigm speaker needs is a laid back receiver. Which Paradigms do you reference, Monitors? I have the Reference Eclipse/BPs and while they're highly efficient (91dB), they seemed to me to be better matched with my laid back HK 525 than my Kenwood KRV990D. The Paradigms certainly LOVE power. The more you give them, the more they like to consume and use it. I would really love to have Parasound amps on them -- which was one of the setups I auditioned them with at my Paradigm dealer before I bought them. |
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Rick | Hawk- I'm sure you do, I was just hoping to get your insight to my question and was nervous this thread might go unnoticed Thanks for the spare time  So you like the Marantz after all, cool. I like the NAD, just not sure if I can demo it and I've seen a lot of Paradigm owners at AVS forums who use Denons as well. They also favor Yamaha/Pradigm too, so I guess I'll have to listen to all 4 receivers. But I'm glad to see you did like the Marantz because that was my front runner having not listened to any yet. |
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elitefan | My comment earlier about the Marantz 7300 vs Elite 45 was based on listneing to these with Monitor Silver 6 and 2. They are very close IMO but I think the Elite had a bit[a very little bit] more sizzle at the high end. The difference is so slight I would be happy with either one. I just wish Marantz and others were more generous in their input packages. |
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Rick | elitefan- Can you elaborate on the input packages and what you don't like about Marantz? Also, I read something that Denon does not 'upconvert' s-video to component. I'm not sure exactly what that means. I run component out and in from my HDTV, and component out fron my DVD player. S-Video does the rest. Do any oif these 4 not do for HDTV what my current Onkyo does? |
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elitefan | Rick, My complaint about inputs is that most receivers don't have enough inputs for my system. The Marantz 7300 is a very good receiver but has only 7 inputs. The NAD's, Rotels and H/K 's only have 6 even at the upper price levels. My system has 7 components hooked up now and I can see that I will have more later like a dvd recorder.[when they finally have digital inputs] The more inputs the better for me and the Elite 45 has 8 so at least that gives me 1 to use in the future. My choices are very limited but I try not to let this issue interfer with my recommendations here. It is something we need to be aware of however. Every system is different, mine just happens to have a lot to it. |
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Rick | Ah, I see. I have HDTV, converter, PS2 & DVD hooked up, so I only need 4 inputs, but of course want more. What I noticed about the elite -53tx, was only 1 component in which floored me. I need at least 2 component, I use my TV's component for PS2. So the input sounds like maybe the Marantz is the model to beat. I appreciate all the info from you and Hawk. I'm just trying to compare notes because reading different forums you hear completely different opinions so I'm trying to grade the best match for my Paradigms so I know what to listen to. |
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Hawk | Rick: You may wish to get an outboard switch box for your component video connections. It will have a higher video bandwidth and I have seen them with either four or six inputs. Receivers today just aren't meant to handle much component video--the most I have seen is three component video inputs on the NAD T762. Usually, you get only one or two. |
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Hawk | Rick: Here is a link to a product that I was talking about: http://www.smarthome.com/7772.html |
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Rick | Hawk- Thanks for the link, I bookmarked it in case I ever need that. I only have 2 component devices, my DVD and HDTV. The cable box is S-Video so as long as I have 2 component ins, I'm cool. But it's nice to know I'm not stuck without say the Pioneer Elite with only 1 component out (not sure why Pioneer did that?) I'm mostly concerned with musical reproductions, and the standard HT video conversions and connections with my selection. I'm following your motto about being good with music it should great with HT. |
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