Hello I have recently bought a pair of JBL S312 - 12" woofered 3 way speakers. My last speaker system was Jamo 5.1 system with an 8" powered sub. While I love the sound from my new JBL's, with playing the Jamo's with the powered sub even at stereo mode there was a deeper smoother bass response. How could this be? I mean I do get a great bass response from the JBL 12" but how can an 8" woofer produce deeper bass? The JBL's even go lower with the freq response. Is it that a powered sub has a kink of a "loudness" feature within it's amp? My receiver (Harman\Kardon) doesn't have a loudness feature. Do you think that if I try the JBL's with a receiver with loudness they will kick the sub out of town, or maybe an equalizer? Any help, thought and knowledge would be very appreciated. Thanks G-S
G-S
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please
G-S
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Hawk, derek, g-man anyone please
John Allen
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G-S
"I mean I do get a great bass response from the JBL 12" but how can an 8" woofer produce deeper bass?"
The Jamo 8" was an active sub, with its own amp built in. The JBL has a larger, 12", bass driver (equals "woofer"), sure, but it is part of the design of the whole speaker, and is driven by your amp/receiver, not by its own internal amp.
So my guess is the JBL really does go deeper, and the bass you hear from the Jamo is not real, deep bass extension but just increased volume a bit higher up. I could be wrong.
Personally I would not bother with the loudness feature. "Loudness" on amps is for listening to very quiet stuff late at night. At very low volumes, our ears hear mid-range stuff much better than highs and lows and the "loudness" control boosts highs and low to make up for that. I would not give house room to an equalizer, but that's me. It is to make up for bad frequency response, a problem you don't want in the first place. JBL are good speakers; the guys who made them know their stuff.
If you miss the bass then you probably need to get another powered sub.
G-S
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Thanks John, So actually would you say gowing with 2 smaller towers or bookshelves + the active sub (maybe 2) would deliver a better overall response at low to medium volumes with an 80 watts amp thank my big 12" JBL's that probably would need a more powerful amp even though they are rated 40-250 watts? thanks
Hawk
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G-S:
I think what you are hearing is the difference between quality and quantity, The JBLs have more bass, but it is not well controlled. Reminds me of pulling up at a stoplight next to some teenager who has too much money and has his windows open and the bass on his stereo going "thump, thump, thump", etc. Well the JBLs are like that--they have gobs of bass, but it isn't very musical or accurate. Catches your attention in the showroom, but it probably isn't what you want to listen to regularly or for very long.
A well controlled, accurate 8" sub is FAR PREFERABLE to a 12" or 15" that isn't. I often recommend the PSB SubZero just for that very reason. Size is not everything and quality will show.
G-S
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Wont an active sub allways be more controlled since it has its own matched amp?
G-S
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In audiophile stereo set-ups what would you find more 2 bigger well balanced speakers or a well balanced 2 smaller speakers + active sub set?
Anonymous
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Your problem is simple. You're using 3 way speakers. Ever move a subwoofer around the room to find the best spot? If you have, one thing you will notice is that the best spot is never located under your mains so why would 3 way speakers be able to beat speakers + sub when the sub in a 3 way is in a poor spot? My 2 way speakers play as low as those JBL's but I still have them set to small so I can send all my bass to my SVS and Paradigm subs. To me a 3 way speaker is a jack of all trades and a master of none. An equally priced 2 way set of speakers and sub will beat a 3 way set every time. All of my subs go below 25Hz with power, a 3 way speaker can't do that. That's why people really buy subs. Come on guys what is this 8-inch crap! Don't buy cheap 8-inch subwoofers, save your money and get something that can really perform. No offence there buddy, I know you're supposed to be some kind of know it all on this forum but a PSB SubZero. This thing doesn't live up to its name because it's lucky to have any real out put at sub 40Hz, not exactly deserving of the name SubZero. Maybe the last part is how many I would buy but that's about as truthful as that name gets. Guys I know some people can't afford big bucks for a sub so save your money and put up with what you have so that down the road you can purchase a real sub. Subs like the ones mentioned hit their max spl around 60Hz and drop off pretty quickly from there. You can forget about ever feeling the slam in you chest when something explodes in a movie (you may think you have it now but you don't) let alone the feeling you get on stuff below 25Hz. Don't buy junk, save your money for future investments.
Anonymous
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Hey John Allen, are you the Toronto John Allen that nearly pissed himself when he went to SideTrax? If not no offence if so it's a small world.
John Allen
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No, I've never even visited Toronto. It is not an uncommon name. Nice of you to ask.
G-S
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Yah but isn't pure hi-fi stereo meaning 2 channels from 2 directional sources meaning speakers?
G-Man
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Most of the time a good self-powered subwoofer can sound and perform deeper and louder than a 3-way tower.
There are numerous reasons for this:
1) towers are usually placed away from corners which is the weakest room area for bass response. 2) sub-woofers are often placed near corners whcich enhance bass response. 3) You can separately adjust the volume and output on a self-powered subwoofer to enhance the real and perceived bass output. You cannot do that on most tower speakers. 4) Just because a speaker says it can go lower in Hz does not mean it can do so loudly or at low distortion. It is a borderline meaningless spec when taken without context. And most speaker manufacturers give you the spec with no context. 5) I would rather have a self-powered subwoofer that can play at low distortion and up to 100 db's at 30 Hz than a tower speaker that says it plays to 25 Hz. It doesn't say how loud in SPL's it plays at 25 Hz and how high the distortion is at various outputs.
Recently Sound and Vision did a good inexpensive subwoofer comparison between 8 or 9 subwoofers. The difference in distortion and output along the frequency response is dramatic between subwoofers--nevermind the differences between regular speakers.
Humans might well have two ears and listen in stereo, but the real world, bands, orchestra's, etc. supply us with sound information from far more than two point sources. So, the notion that listening to stereo music is superior to 5.1 or 7.1 or 100.3 is erroneous. It may be true that most recording engineers are very familiar with producing stereophonic imaging, but when I hear the best SACD/DVD-Audio discs in 5.1 it blows any stereo discs I have out of the water. Of course, I have many stereo discs that are far superior to a few poorly re-engineered SACD/DVD-A discs that I have.
As good as a system is it can only playback the quality of the engineering (at best).