Speakers for Classical Music for Rotel RB 1070 (budget: upto 2k$)
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New member Username: DsrPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi everyone! I recently bought a new Rotel RB 1070 pre amp and RC 1070 power amp and have not bought any speakers yet and need your guidance to avoid wasting my money. I listen only to classical music and as i mentioned my budget is upto 1k - 2k USD only. The power amp requires min of 4ohms impedance and is rated for 130W/ch at 8 ohms. Many thanks! Dev |
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New member Username: DsrPost Number: 2 Registered: Aug-07 | Forgot to mention, my living room is of ~400 sq feet area and i listen at not-so-high volume level. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11417 Registered: Dec-04 | Rogers ls3/5a or equivelent. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3484 Registered: Sep-04 | I disagree. If there's one area that LS3/5a's are weaker it's in the scale department. Your room's not small so you can use larger speakers to give you the scale that larger orchestral pieces offer. Suggestions: Focal Chorus 716V Totem Sttaf ProAc Studio 140 Revel something or other (I know they make a floorstander in this price bracket and they're an excellent brand) There are loads of brands at this price range. I hope you have a suitable source for all this. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8637 Registered: Feb-05 | With the amp you have I would suggest Paradigm Studio 20 v4 or the new v5 (haven't heard but I'd bet my you know what they'll be great and continue to be a good match with Rotel) or B&W 685's. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11424 Registered: Dec-04 | Infinity Beta 20's, because they are cheap, then judge others you hear from those. It might be harder than I think. Easy to place around on the right stands too. How are you budgeted for stands and wiring? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8639 Registered: Feb-05 | Here we go with the Beta 20's again...I sure can't wait to get mine and put 'em on the other end of my gear...maybe I'll finally see what the fuss is about...lol! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2291 Registered: Jun-07 | LOL me too Art. If they are 45 dollars a piece on Ebay and they are that good, they will be the buy of the decade I am sure of it. I am calling to order some tomorrow. Should have them next week. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8640 Registered: Feb-05 | I won't actually pay until tomorrow so who knows when I'll see 'em. To the OP if these speakers work out for us perhaps you have your answer as well. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3491 Registered: Sep-04 | Infinity speakers....only heard them once...thank God... |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13285 Registered: May-04 | . And I have to disagree with Frank - not about Infinity's, their product is too hit or miss to discuss here and I would think the op is expecting more than any $45 speaker can deliver - my disagreement would be about Frank's assessment of the LS3/5a's. The listening room is described as medium in dimension and the op states "scale" is not a priority (" ... i listen at not-so-high volume level"). And I'm not so sure why Nuck was so quick with the 3/5a as a suggestion for "classical" music. I suspect the reasoning here is similar to the idea of "tube sound". The 3/5a's are not "in your face" speakers. Now, I'm guessing Frank is using "scale" to suggest dynamic scaling and not the apparent physical scale of an auditorium or symphony hall. I can attest to the rather unbelievable quality of the shoe box sized 3/5a's to project a soundstage that is representative of the space where the recording was made and I can voice the opinion the 3/5a's can - given the correct input and stands, the 3/5a's are unsually sensitive to their support system - manage this feat far better than most floorstanding speakers of equal or twice their cost. Originally designed as professional monitors for remote broadcast or recording operations for the BBC, this is exactly what the 3/5a does better than most other speakers - provide an accurate picture of what is being fed to their inputs. Of course, a 4" woofer has to make certain concessions to the laws of physics and the 3/5a cannot reproduce the scale of Mahler at his most outrageous self-indulgence without giving somewhere. Where the 3/5a gives is in dynamic compression, sacrificing some "scale" for a higher degree of musicality. On the other hand the 3/5a's allow a listener to hear further into the music than most equivalently priced or larger speakers can manage and the two qualities tend to balance themself out with the dynamic scale of the 3/5a being rather surprising in most non-self-indulgent Mahlerian or Wagnerian situations. (OK, you won't be happy with the 3/5a if you once a week listen to "The Planets" at realistic first row seating levels.) I can further attest to the fact, given appropriate electronics and source in front of them, the 3/5a's woofer can (in a medium sized room) knock my head back when they give a satisfying and surprisingly accurate shove to the compression/rarefaction wave created by the big Telarc drum at the beginning of "Fanfare for the Common Man". The 3/5a's consistently beat expectations for any speaker its size. They deserve a listen from anyone other than the diehard metal fan. That said, the original 3/5a is, technically, a discontinued speaker and can only be purchased second hand. If someone doesn't know what to look for in a 3/5a, they can end up with a poor choice that costs far too much money. The scruples of people willing to scam the unsuspecting are too loose to make the 3/5a a stand out selection nowdays. There are, however, 3/5a derivatives using 21st c/ materials and design objectives which will go beyond what the original can manage. There is a drop in replacement for the original 3/5a that uses new drivers while retaining a very large chunk of the original's virtues. Googling "LS3/5a" should get you information on that speaker. Spendor and Harbeth (companies having direct ties to the BBC) both build a 3/5a spawn that in many ways exceeds the original's capacity to amaze. The problem here is, IMO, two fold. Once again we have no idea what the op listens for as a priority and the 3/5a derivatives will not be at their best with Rotel. The Spendor model has just been redesigned and is the more "musical" of the two products while the Harbeth is the more difficut speaker line to find, will be higher priced than the Spendor and will remain more true to the signal it receives - it is the closer of the two to what most people would consider a true "monitor" speaker in its character. Neither of these two speakers will rock the house if the op is an organ music fan. A very good subwoofer would be manadatory for that priority. However, both speakers do a more than reasonable job of implying deeper bass than their size would at first glance indicate. A double bass and a tympani will usually be well served by either design. I would suggest the op gives either or both speaker lines a listen before making a buying decision. That said, I have to ask a few questions. How did the op decide what electronics to buy without deciding those electronics sounded correct through the speakers used for demonstration? Why not buy the speakers the dealer demonstrated? You did audition the Rotel before you made the purchase, didn't you? . |
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New member Username: DsrPost Number: 3 Registered: Aug-07 | Thanks everyone for the help! Apologies I could not reply earlier. Jan: glad you could customise your answer to classical music. To your question why i bought Rotel well i live in India and as it is we do not have many option here. Whatever we have are at very exhorbitant premium. I could only find Rotel - apart from very consumerish Denon, Yamaha HTs - and that too discontinued models at silly prices. My friends in US came handy the Rotel is coming in from him. Did i myself audition it? No, i had to rely on the friend. But i will most certainly audition it with all the speakers available here - apparantly there are more speaker brands available than electronics brands. I know it is not the best way to buy an audio system but I have been listening to my more than 500odd cds over a humble cdman till now and i had to work backward. Rotel came out as safe and sound - it can be repaired here since there is a dealer. It is quite a sobby story...sigh! So far I have found dealers for Dali (Ikon 6/7), Dynaudio, Revel (Concerta F12), Maggies and BnW. Maggies are out of contention since price quoted is 3k+. I was advised Spendors seomewhere else as well so I am looking for Spendors' availability here but it looks negative. So is Harbeth. Any experience with the names mentioned above? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8641 Registered: Feb-05 | Rotel and B&W work very well together. For classical music, which comprises more than 1/2 of my collection Maggies are very good but with them out of contention the B&W's are a good match for you electronics. They may not be the best speakers of the bunch but system synergy is more important than the individual components. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3504 Registered: Sep-04 | Jan, Thanks for describing the LS3/5a performance. i agree that the 3/5a is capable of throwing up an extremely believable image. My problem in terms of scale is - as you say - dynamic compression. Larger scale classical pieces suffer from this when driven to even modestly loud levels with LS3/5as in my view. there is one company making 'original LS3/5as' called Stirling, although i don't recall if they're 15 or 11 ohm. I believe they're only allowed to call them 'LS3/5A V2' because they are precise reproductions of the original, down to the Stirling drivers which are replicas of the originals. they have been favourably reviewed against original LS3/5As by the likes of Ken kessler and The Absolute Sound, both as sonically rewarding but also as true representatives of the original. All that said I wonder if the $1800 price tag might be a bit steep for our OP friend. Dev, I have heard many good things said about the Dalis and everyone I know or have met who owns a Dali loves it and won't move on from it. Spendor have just changed their range so one has to wait and see before one makes a decision on them... Cheers, Frank. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13288 Registered: May-04 | . From CES blog coverage by Stereophile magazine: " CES 2009 Show Report Harbeth Updates a Classic Posted Tue Jan 13, 2009, 7:17 PM ET -- By John Atkinson The diminutive Harbeth HL-P3 has been one of this magazine's consistently recommended speakers since we first reviewed it in 1993. While some details have been improved over the years (and been reported on in the magazine), its design has remained consistent over the years: a diminutive two-way stand-mount intended to take the place of the classic BBC-designed LS3/5a for location monitoring and for audiophiles with small rooms who value midrange purity and superbly stable, well-defined stereo imaging over bass extension and ultimate loudness capability. Nothing lasts forever, however, and at T.H.E. Show, Harbeth was showing off a major redesign of the speaker, the HL-P3R, which will be in production the second quarter of the year. The SEAS tweeter is unchanged, but the woofer had to be changed, due to SEAS discontinuing the original's driver. The new woofer uses Harbeth's proprietary "Radial" polymer cone material first seen in the M40i. Using a new woofer led to a crossover revision, while the cabinet now has a bolted-in rear panel. Unlike the original, biwirable HL-P3, the "R" has a single pair of terminals. Harbeth owner Alan Shaw, shown here holding his new baby, told me that a design goal was to match the low-frequency response and tuning of the earlier speaker, which was always a little more extended than the LS3/5a. The last version of the HL-P3 cost $1950--$2459USD/pair, depending on finish; the HL-P3R will have a "marginal" price increase, said Shaw. Note, by the way, the little doohickey on the wall to Alan's left. That's one of the Synergistic ART devices. Alan remained agnostic about the effect when I commented on his using them--"They came with the Synergistic cables we borrowed for the Show"--but I took part in an A/B tests in another room at CES where darned if I didn't hear an improvement when the tiny Synergistic devices were brought into the room and a degradation when they were removed. Yikes!" . |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 410 Registered: Oct-07 | (you knew this was coming) Dev, if you like the Magnepan, you don't have to buy the 3.6s to get there. The 1.6s fit your requirments.... as would the MMG's 'not too loud' would be fine. I had the RB1070 with 1.6s and it was fine, EXCEPT when played loudly. Price of the 1.6's is <1800US$ Between shipping and exchange rates, no telling your cost. |
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Silver Member Username: EdisonGlendale, CA US Post Number: 858 Registered: Dec-03 | Dev, Buy it at www.audiogon.com and you can afford more quality. They too have a forum with more people answering your questions, so I would post it there, and you will receive many good advices there too. I am classical music lover too. What CD player do you have in mind ? Modified sony TRL modified SCD-CE595 got very good reviews. http://6moons.com/audioreviews/trl/595.html As far as speakers, you can buy spendor and harbeth on www.audiogon.com You can buy for a lot less, and have more choices - just about any speaker comes up for sale there. Cheers, |
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New member Username: DsrPost Number: 4 Registered: Aug-07 | Thanks James. I will check. Buying speakers from US may be expensive proposition considering their and weight and therefore shipping cost - i live in india. I do have a few friends over there who visit india, just need to check if any of them is true enough to me to bring that here  About cd player - i was considering Rotel 1072. Any opinion on this? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11458 Registered: Dec-04 | Dont buy it Dev. I have that player and would rather have something else for your musical interests. Think Rega Apollo. Or Jolida hybrid players. |
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New member Username: DsrPost Number: 5 Registered: Aug-07 | Nuck, would you elaborate. I almost bought it after reading the reviews!! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11479 Registered: Dec-04 | The 1072 is a natural fit for the rest of the Rotel gear, no doubt, the voltage and impedence matching is just right, making different sources from the amp work on very similar volume levels. So far so good. My experience with Rotel setups, as well as the 1072 in my Classe setup seems to be one of...speed. The player is exactly right on track length, of course, but the music from the 1072 seems just a bit quicker to me, if that helps (probably not). The Rotel player is one that I use for Rock n Roll. The immediacy of the play may seem pretty good for your tastes, as a lot of your music has snap and attack, but when you hear the transient passages, and bass to mid transitions, I bet you will get antsy. Thats mytake from here anyhow. The Apollo is much happier to take its time. Nothing is rushed (as the 1072 seems to me) and the transitions seem much more relaxed and natural. Thus, I use(d) the Rotel for fast attack rock, the Apollo for usual sober listening, and in fact, my Classe trans/dac for classical and easier jazz, as well as all my Looney Tunes cd's. The 1072 is an attack and slam player for me. |
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New member Username: DsrPost Number: 6 Registered: Aug-07 | Thanks a lot, I read somewhere else as well that Rega is better. The problem is availability in India - i hope i can find a dealer for it. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8795 Registered: Feb-05 | Keep in mind though that Nuck listens to very little if any classical music and is not familiar with how most classical music should sound. Here and on other forums Rotel has actually been considered a good choice for classical...less so for jazz. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11495 Registered: Dec-04 | Good point Art. Classical is usually on the turntable with my mom over to listen... Not a lot of cd's, and hers are mostly horrid recordings. |
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New member Username: DsrPost Number: 7 Registered: Aug-07 | That brings up very important point - many great classical performances belong to dated past and I myself have many of those with some from as early as 30s and 40s! There is a lot of noise on these and honestly it doesnt make much difference however much hi-fi system you are playing on. (A few recording companies leave this noise since many classical listeners prefer to have it - filtering removes desired harmonics as well) What would your suggstion be to avoid this noise i.e. a good filtering device? Will a simple treble and bass control on pre-amp help? I suspect that. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11513 Registered: Dec-04 | Dev, the recording is just that. Using tonals and so on are a detriment to the recording, I think. Let your room (and it's treatments) guide the listening pleasure. Dragging the last n'th out of a recording is not a bad thing in my experience, it only guides onr to a master recording (if available). Otherwise, it pops and distorts, but that ain't a bad thing if thats what it is. The music does not suffer one iota |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8817 Registered: Feb-05 | Yeah...perhaps you want to filter it out but I recommend not. You lose too much music that way. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11520 Registered: Dec-04 | Just let the music play |
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