Hi , Thinking of upgrading my system for the n th time . At Present using the Quad 909 amp along with the 99 pre and quad 22L speakers , How is the Totem Hawk when compared with the quad 22L , will the 909 drive the Hawk and is it suitable for all kind of music.
The Hawk is a well rounded speaker and a real sweet spot in the Totem line. You get crisp, airy highs, a very balanced and lifelike midrange and surprisingly strong and tight bass for such a small unit. I would not be able to compare to the Quad. You need to audition them.
The recommendation is that you use them with the Totem Beaks.
Haven't tried the beaks yet with my Sttafs George. I've heard that they actually do make a difference!
I've heard the Hawk and the Forest many times David, but never with Quad amps. Both speakers enjoy lots of clean watts (I'm a poet and didn't know it).
I have not heard the Totem in my life time , since i saw many good reviews in the net i was eager to purchase them , But will it be better then the quad 22L ? whats the amp you are using with totem david?
I'm currently driving my Sttafs with Bryston monoblocks. Bryston and Totem is a very sweet combination. I've also driven them with Rotel in the past with good results.
The Hawks and the Forests will offer a decent jump up in quality over the Quads. I am not a Quad speaker fan, so I may be biassed against them, but the Totems are really quite superior in my view.
Your 909 is a very powerful amplifier and will have no problems driving either Hawks or Forests. The quality of the 99/909 combination is also suitable, so I'm hoping your source is also in the same ballpark or better. If it's not, reconsider your plans and think about a decent source instead. You can't fix a broken signal once it's it's left the source player.
I have not auditioned the Totems till now , i am planning to go next week end for a audition. Or else i should blindly buy the speakers without auditioning just like i purchased the quads.
Frank how was your listening experience with the Totems and whats the difference you found between the quad and totem Hawk.
Every Totem is voiced differently...there is not "brand sound" except that Totem's tend to add a little i.e. they are musical speakers. If you like a "dead neutral" speaker then Totem may not be for you; however, some Totem's are more neutral then others. The most popular models are the Sttafs and Rainmakers. The Hawk seems, though more expensive, seems to be one of the favorites and the price/value winner. That all said, I recommend you listen to them on equipment that is as close as possible to that which you will be using to drive them before making a decision to buy.
The Hawks may present a problem in such as small room because the need to be out of the corners and sound better a little further from the wall. Placement should be 2-3 ft from any wall. I'm not sure if you listening position is lengthwise or crosswise in the room but think about speaker placement. I believe the Forests can be as finicky and even the Rainmakers sound better a little further into the room...about a couple feet. The Sttafs might be a little more flexible....Dave / Frank any thoughts on a suitable Totem for such a room?
I agree George, the Hawks would be overkill in a room of those dimensions. Check out the Arros - they're the smallest of the Totem floorstanders and have spooky imaging.
I am using the quad22L in the same room , but the sound is good, i know that i am not listening to the quad 22Ls original quality . How will the rainmaker be when compared to the quad22L , George , the room size is 13 feet in length and 11 feet in wide. Is there any other way i can make the Hawk sound good in this room?
I was gald to read David Mitchell's comment regarding Sttaf and Rotel. My plan is to build a new system (int. amp, cdp and speakers). I've listened to the Rotel 1062 amp and 1072 cdp but have yet to hear the Sttafs. Musical tastes are mostly swing/bigband, jazz, vocals and acoustic. Would the Sttaf be a good choice for these styles of music. BTW; the listening room is small, about 12'x 18'.
You want the Hawks about 6ft apart and at least 3ft from the back wall. You also need 2 to 3 ft to each side between the speaker and the walls. In general, you wan't to keep them 2 to 3ft away from any wall at a minimum. With them placed in your room on the short wall that just gives you enough room but now really too much extra to play with. You can always play with room acoustic treatments from there i.e. wood panelling on the walls or bass catchers in the corners etc. All you need to remember is that they need to stay out of the corners otherwise the bass gets bloated and muddy. Totem posts the recommended distances on their sight with the speaker specs. Just take the median as your minimum to leave you some room for error.
I have to agree that the Hawks might be too much speaker for that room. I would listen to Arro's and also the Sttaf. I have the Sttaf's in a 15' x 25' room and they nicely fill the room with lots of bottom end and nice detail in the mids and highs. Of all the Totem speakers, I am most impressed with the Arro. In fact I think it's their best speaker. I went with the Sttaf only because of my room size, if I could have gotten away with the Arro I would have.
Let's not forget Dave, that metal you listen to would bottom out those Arrow drivers in no time. Sttafs were the right choice for bass heavy tracks...the Hawks even more so.
So the right speakers for my room will be Arros or Sttafs . I have to go to a dealer and check these speakers. How is Arro or Sttafs when compared with the Hawk.
The Hawk has lots of rich bass, more than the Sttaf but also is more crisp, very details highs. The Hawk can be used with virtually any music. Very lively sounding and musical. Sttaf is very flexible for music but has it's limits on bass production. They have got a very polite top end and smooth presentation. The words would be smooth and warm with good detail. The Arros have amazing imaging...the term spooky comes up a lot. Supposedly, you can turn them around, facing backwords and they will still image well. Crisp top end with good detail but not polite, like the Sttafs. Their weakness is in bass production and for anything that demands the low-end frequencies, the Arro may be found wanting. With an appropriate Totem sub. these would be more flexible. I would recommend only using with a high quality music friendly sub. - preferably Totem.
Sorry for not coming back to you earlier - been busy. I'm a Totem dealer (as well as fan) so my use of the products is both better and worse than others'.
I use Totem Mani-2 Signatures at home in a room 13'6 by 11'. Mani-2s have more and better bass than Forests, Hawks or Sttafs. Of the latter three, the only one I would have concerns about would be the Forest because its presentation is rather bigger in the bass (if not as deep) so shy away from that model in my view.
Hawks are altogether more cultured than Sttafs. They have better resolution, much cleaner top end and are generally more composed than Sttafs. of course this means Sttafs are a bit more exuberant and some people miss that in Hawks!
Arros are brilliantly involving and engaging. They're the most exuberant of the lot. Some people complain that they're a touch too bright but most people love 'em. The fact is though that in comparison to Hawks they're not really in the same ballpark with the Hawks having more articulation in the bass as well as that cleaner more extended treble without the ringing that affects the Arros. Arros achieve their big sound by careful and clever cheating in the cabinet. hawks do it in a similar way but much less obviously so.
I am not convinced that Arros will give you enough of an upgrade over your Quad 22Ls since in some respects the 22Ls may be as good as the Arros so I think this is more of a sideways step than a genuine upgrade. My view is that Hawks are where it's at for you.
Another alternative is the Model-1 Signature (or The One), which is a mini monitor with a very big heart. Since it's a bit smaller it won't over-energise the room, but it's tremendously fast and agile so will really give you an immediacy of slam and attack which eludes the 22Ls. In your room, they'd make a lot of sense, provided you like them. My only caveat here is that the 'The One' is a special version of the Model-1 Signature and although i appreciate it's better in many respects there is an intimacy which is missing by comparison to the Model-1 Signature. If you can get to hear them both, it would be a good thing.
This has ben some very informative/enlightening reading. The only 2 Totem models that I have heard have been the Sttaf and Arro. Frank's comments regarding Quad got me thinking, however. Another local audio dealer compared the Quad 21L2 and 22L2, along with the Def Tech BP 8 & 10, to the Totems. I was able to audition the Quads and while I enjoyed them they weren't quite the same as the Totems. I wasn't able to hear the Def Techs. Has anyone else heard the them? My understanding is that Defs are more suited for home theater. My interest is stricktly 2 channel audio so would the Defs be worth a listen? Thanks.
I agree with Art unless your talking about the Def Tech Mythos ST & STS they are very very good,its actually pretty shocking how good they really are.Of all the Totems the Arro's are my favorites,me personally i dont think the Hawks do anything better than the Arro's but play a little lower and louder, their certainly not more articulated anywhere than the Arro's.On the otherhand the Hawks combine all Totems virtues into 1 cabinet at a very good price,and they are very forgiving of electronics,they are the only Totem to pull all this off they are the Swiss knife of the Totem lineup and a damn gret 1 at that. The Arro is the most focused speaker in Totems lineup as far as its mission is concerned they can tell on anything upstream,and they can be fussy,but with the right electronics the Arro's are 1 of the most special speakers on the planet,theirs not much in existense that matches their imaging and soundstaging,and the few that do,are vastly more expensive.
I agree with Art unless your talking about the Def Tech Mythos ST & STS they are very very good,its actually pretty shocking how good they really are,and they are ore expensive than the speakers mentioned except for the Mani-2's and the ST's cost more than the Forrest.Of all the Totems the Arro's are my favorites,me personally i dont think the Hawks do anything better than the Arro's but play a little lower and louder, their certainly not more articulated anywhere than the Arro's.On the otherhand the Hawks combine all Totems virtues into 1 cabinet at a very good price,and they are very forgiving of electronics,they are the only Totem to pull all this off they are the Swiss knife of the Totem lineup and a damn great 1 at that. The Arro is the most focused speaker in Totems lineup as far as its mission is concerned they can tell on anything upstream,and they can be fussy,but with the right electronics the Arro's are 1 of the most special speakers on the planet,theirs not much in existense that matches their imaging and soundstaging,and the few that do,are vastly more expensive.
Very informative post and thank you for that, I will be auditioning the Totems within next weekend, I read many good things about the Hawk , thats why i was impressed with it even without seeing , and a friend of mine who is also an audiophile said the sound from the hawk is amazing and better then most of the speakers he has seen in that price bracket. If i dont get time to listen to Hawk , is it good to buy the Hawk with out auditioning. ( I bought almost all of my equipment without even seeing them ) lol
You should always try to audition before you buy. Just because someone says a particular speaker or component is best for you, you will not know until "you" listen for yourself. Having said that Frank knows Totem speakers very well and his advise is valuable.
Anyone buying a $2000 speaker without finding the time to listen to it first is bonkers in my view, especially if the only lame excuse is that they can't find the time. You might not like Hawks.
If it's such a low priority for you, perhaps you shouldn't be looking for speakers and consider a nice little boombox to provide your music. You don't need to audition boomboxes since they're all pretty much of a (poor) muchness.
I was impressed with the Arros but chose the Sttafs because I enjoy a little more bass from them. And I also thought it might be a stretch for the arros to fill my listening area.
A subwoofer may help with the Arros if you think it is lacking in the bass. I usually audition speakers for music without a subwoofer. But that's just me.
I didn't listen to the Hawks because of budget (darn it!). But my neighbor ended up buying them after she listened to my Sttafs and went to the dealer on my recommendation.
I'm new to most of this, but I noticed the Hawks are rated at 6 Ohms while the Sttafs are at 8 Ohms. Does this change the amplifier requirements?
I auditioned the Totem Hawk speakers in my dealers showroom , The sound is very good , i could not believe the bass coming out from these speakers . The bass was tight and controlled . I have asked for a home demo . Since my room is a smaller one the dealer had his own doubts wheather the spkrs will work fine in my room.
And factor in the proper stands, which offer quite a bit of tuning with loading. Corner reinforcement is also useful, but just until the bass gets muddy, which I have heard rainmakers do, but not wooly, which is good. There is a finer line with the rainmakers.
mark, a dealer like yours can be invaluable to not spending money in the wrong direction. I have multiple dealers I work with and yours is certainly one I would consider bracing their opinion and product. The dealer sounds like your interests are at the forefront from what you posted above. That is a relationship worth feeding.
I will be auditioning the speakers in my room this weekend , The dealer has agreed to give me the speakers for a day or two , I will post my experience after my listening session.
Totem Hawk was there in my home for a few Weeks!!!! but unfortunately the music was not sounding right in my room. The bass was not tight and the overall sound was not quite good as my quad22L , when place in my other room which is bigger then the one i am using , there was some improvement in the sound . The Rainmaker was very good in my little room but i need a floorstander and decided to keep my quad22L for now. Thanks everyone for the input
Frank, Are you out there? I am not trying to hijack this thread, but when I read you have a pair of Totem Mani-2 Sigs I wanted to ask a question of you. How would you compare the Mani's with Dynaudio Contour 1.4's? I currently have a pair of 1.4's. I have had a pair of Totem Model 1 Signature in the past. Although they have many positive traits I wanted more heft, for the lack of a better term. The Dyns give this to me but are a bit lacking in musicality. They are positioned 36 inches from the rear wall and 18 inches from the side walls. I was considering the Mani's but wondered if they had too much bass. Lest I ramble on too long, I would narrow my question regarding a Mani2 Sig/ Contour 1.4 comparison to two categories, bass and musicality. Your thoughts will be appreciated. Room size 12'x18'x8'. Associated gear: Simaudio I-7 integrated, Simaudio Supernova cd player, Rega P5, Rel Strata mk iii Sub.
Hi Bill. The contour 1.4, last I heard them were powered with a Cary tube kit with tube cdplayer and around 15w SET. Also in the next room were Dynaudio 140's on Signature stands and a Moon setup.
Although it is hard to really be specific in comparison, here goes.
the Contours are a very quick speaker, and I thought they would be better suited to sand power than the Cary setup. The 1.4's have a very good range and seamless transition, as in Steely Dan Aja on the player. The contours did not have an issue being a little closer to the corner of the room either, but I did not move them around.
The 140's however, were another story, and were placed in a poor manner. That said, they had a lower bass response, but even the Moon gear did not save them in the room. The 140's felt undergunned, in fact, and did not respond nearly as well to swinging music, in this case, Benny goodman and a second selection, Colin James and the Little Big Band.
In regards to my Mani2's...
These speakers are not for the faint of heart, the smallish of rooms or for bass negators. Yes, they have bass. A lot of bass.
the room placement is more critical here than nearly any standmount than I have ever dealt with. The Totems will not, ever, work near a corner. Like ever. I currently have them a meter behind and 70 cm sides, with a listening depth of 2.5M. The mani's can, and will do magic things, all the tricks are there for depth, soundstage imaging and more. The bass never leaves you until...
you try to turn them up.
The classe ca300 amp is very good and very sharp and square and nothing short of an amp like yours or mine will do, really, or some other model that is close(there are many).
The mani-2's are not loud, nor are they supposed to be, max SPL is 108, so no outdoor parties. The bass drivers (the ones seen) are rather dramatic in their movement and have caused me some concern, but nary have they missed a step. The transition to the only metal tweeter that I have really liked is smooth, seamless and readily able to voice male and female vocals equally well, with no breakup across the entire range and full, open transparant clarity. A joy.
The totems are best treated with rock solid stands and a plinth of thick layers if placed on a carpet, which I am experimenting with now. Foundation, foundation...
Nuck, Thanks for the response; very informative and helpful. I had the 140's when they were first released. Great speakers for the price point. My wife doesn't comment much about my system but noticed the difference when the 140's were replaced with the 1.4's. She liked the increased resolution. Well, I may throw the Confidence C1's into the consideration.
As Nuck said , the Totems are great speakers but if it doesn't suit your room then it sounds pretty ordinary . When i had a listen of Hawk in my dealers place , it was great but the same magic didn't happen in my room . I am now cursing my room
Hmmm, I used to (try to) sell Contour 1.4s. Never quite managed to do so. They're OK I guess. Big sound, lots of scale and good resolution allied to big bass/midbass. Not as deep as Mani-2s but big.
I'm using my Mani-2s in a much smaller room and this is why I get too much bass. They're only 18 inches or so from the back walls and perhaps 24 inches from the sides. They're still a whole heap more musical than 1.4s will ever be. Their bass response is remarkable which means you don't have to play loud, but if you do it's a lot of fun. In my room, the bass does get too much but only if I play loud (I mean LOUD).
The bass response at normal (convo and just above) is a blast. Neighbor is still convinced there is a sub under the floorboards, and really at volume 5/30
In further consideration of the Mani-2 compared to the Dynaudio Confidence C1- I got a chance to hear the C1s. Wow! I bought a pair. They should be here next week.
Very very Congrats Bill,the more i think about it ultimately the C1 will be my lifetime speaker,they are among the best 3 speakers i have heard,the other 2 were very big and vastly expensive speakers.The C1's deliver that magic that few speakers do,and they are probably the most coherant speakers in the world,and the ability for them to be able to play comftably in the upper 20's is a amazing feat for a standmounted speaker,im enjoying the Swan D2.1SE so much because it reminds so much of a poor mans C1,even more so than the rest of the Dynaudio standmounts,enjoy friend i envy you!
In my room, the bass does get too much but only if I play loud (I mean LOUD).