What the !@#$?
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2147 Registered: Oct-04 | http://www.synergisticresearch.com/ |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 396 Registered: Jul-07 | Interesting. You should sign up for the "Tesla Challenge" and demo some of the cables CM. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2148 Registered: Oct-04 | I'm still trying to work the kinks out of my Tesla cloaking/time/earthquake-machine I ordered from the back of Popular Science magazine. Does anyone know where I can find a used flux capacitor? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1735 Registered: Feb-07 | I've had similar results with left-over 2x4's and tupperware. Didn't look as neat, though. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 290 Registered: Jun-08 | O.k. that's it, I'm going to start my own company. Someone's always making money of the rich and stupid and I gotta get in on it. Can they be real. I wonder how much they sell, even more, I wonder to whom. I should send them some questions giving them the impression that I'm really interested in their product or lack thereof. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1526 Registered: May-06 | Being they appear to be the size of cigarette packs, they probably wouldn't go for more than $1K. Suppose they work? |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1527 Registered: May-06 | $3,100 retail for the set. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13098 Registered: May-04 | . And they do work. It's based on sympathetic resonances and there's no need for rude comments about who's being "sympathetic" to the seller's wallet. These may not be your idea of how to spend money, but the concept isn't as weird as it may at first seem. These are just another example of a group of non-intrusive room treatments meant to replace the bales of fiberglass and foam rubber panels that deaden the room reflections and kill the sound of some systems. Particuarly in markets unlike the U.S. of A. where an unabating "logic" determines what we believe, these sorts of devices have a dedicated following due to the belief systems of other cultures. Yeah, they look odd to you but read about them and learn about how other people approach sound. This is about learning, folks, so do some learnin'. . |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2150 Registered: Oct-04 | I ain't too keen on book learnin' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_resonance |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2151 Registered: Oct-04 | Does anyone here use any sort of acoustic room treatment? If so, what? Jan, did you ever use those Ikea end-table "bass-traps"? I think you posted a link to them a while back, but it's dead now. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1528 Registered: May-06 | I use ASC panels, six 6" by 60" with two 8" by 60". I use these to the outside of my speakers, just forward of them along the wall, one grouping of four panels on each wall. I copied this from the ASC website so I am not mis-representing their purpose: "The Sound Plank addresses noise control of a room while enhancing the quality of the sound that remains by blending absorption with diffusion. Reverberation and echo signals are controlled while a fine-grained, diffusive reflection pattern fills the room. The resulting acoustic signature is smooth and uniform throughout." Also from ASC, I have four corner bass traps deployed in the four wall / ceiling corners in my room. I have about seven Auralex 24" X 48" foam panels distributed throughout the room to minimize resonance. There are three bass traps I constructed using R30 Batt fiberglass rolled into a drum and stacked four high. One behind each speaker in the front corners of the room, one dead center on the wall behind my speakers. A simple fix was a heavy bath towel draped over one of the glass doors of my entertainment unit which is on a side wall. (In case your wondering, Auralex panels takes care of the other door and my plasma TV screen.) There are other foam rolls and stuff filling gaps and crevices where I think I can get sound anomalies from. Lastly, I use isolation devices I built for my amps and TT. 30" round flower pot base filled with sand with combining MDF, neoprene end caps, raquetballs, and Jenga wooden game pieces. This keeps the rooms floor (2nd floor media room) from having too much influence on my gear. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2095 Registered: Jun-07 | I have nothing good really like Wodek. I just used Throw rugs, and micro fabric furniture to warm things up. That is about it. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11113 Registered: Dec-04 | I use the synergistic bowls to hide roaches in, and so on. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1740 Registered: Feb-07 | And we're not talking dead bugs here... |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 398 Registered: Jul-07 | LOL Nuck. The roaches add to the acoustic benefits of the bowls no doubt. "Enhancers" shall we say. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 362 Registered: Dec-07 | I would point out that those of us not fortunate enough to have our wife give us a nice big room to do with whatever we will, consider the WAF of these things.  Michael, you have a great advantage being allowed to decorate with rolls of fiberglass insulation, terra cotta flower pots filled with sand growing attractive blue squash balls, and floating furnishings, wiring, and equipment in unusual and hazardous places in order to get proper sound. The rest of us poor married mortals have a loose architectural code to live up to. LOL. [There has to be a bizarre episode of Trading Spaces in here somewhere.] "...other foam rolls and stuff filling gaps and crevices..." I think that about sums it up. I see an app for these things if they work. Just tell the wifey that it's either $3,100 or we're going to Home Depot! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13102 Registered: May-04 | . With a king size bed in the same space as the speakers, there isn't a lot of attentuation of signal I need to do. I've done some wall treatments for reflection points and the same insulation stuff as MW for corner bass traps. Some "nekked" R30 batts rolled and put in the four corners and a pair placed along the side walls. I covered the fiberglass with a thin sheet of polyfill. They'll get dressed up more sometime but that's pretty far down on the "to do" list. It was an obvious improvement and cost about $60 for the whole room. (I wouldn't suggest this for anyone with kids in the house, fiberglass tends to "float" if it gets disturbed and this isn't what you want to be breathing.) With the dipole configuration of the reconfigured Hornets - thanks again, CM - I don't need to kill the sound as much as diffuse the sound in the front of the room so some treatments have come down since I built the new enclosures. With the new enclosures the speakers are toed in so the driver is firing in front of the listening chair and therefore early reflections are minimized from the front firing driver while the rear facing driver gets some extra reflection points before it comes back toward the listening position. This seems to give a nice diffused ambience with the various wall treatments in the front of the room. Since the pups sleep in this room there are three nice fluffy pillows on the hardwood floor placed between the main carpet and the back of the room carpet to kill first reflections off the floor. The room still has a mild boost at about 80Hz but it's been tamed with the fiberglass batts and for the low level listening I typically do it gives a nice touch of "oomph" to the bottom of most music without being obnoxious about it. There's still a standing wave issue if I don't place the chair far enough off the back wall - so I place the chair far enough off the back wall to accomodate the standing wave and it doesn't cost me anything and I don't have stacks of 48" round Tube Traps taking up space in the room trying to smooth out a 40Hz dip/lump. The room has a kind of funky layout with a soffet that comes down in the back third of the room and essentially splits the room into two conjoined spaces. I've considered smaller corner traps in the back of the room at the ceiling/wall junction but I'm kind of getting tired of the room being cluttered with all this fiberglass stuff so there are limits to what I'll do. . |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1530 Registered: May-06 | JV, What? You have limits to what you'll do? That's a first. You only covered parts of your solutions, and only the one's that worked. LOL Neil, I did suggest to my wife that for $3100 I could remove most of the "unartistic" stuff from my room. She either did not believe something would do that, or did not think I would actually take anything out after the fact, or realistically understands that we ain't got $3100 for any of this. Probably all three! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2152 Registered: Oct-04 | I didn't know you got around to building new cabinets for the hornets, did you jazz them up at all, or just straight .5" ply? Has anyone used plinths like these http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/plinth.php for their floorstanders? I was thinking about whipping up a pair with some spikes & butcherblock. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 365 Registered: Dec-07 |  Michael, She's obviously written off the room. Something to which we all can aspire. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1532 Registered: May-06 | CM, that is very similar to how my Gallo Ref. 3.1as are built. They have a similar base and spike arrangement, the black lacquered wood is ~2" thick. Neil, uh yeah she has. She comes in about once every 6 months on her own or will join guests up here. My mother-in-law actually spent a couple of hours a day up here on her last visit To her it was all about the music. I have a lot of vinyl near and dear to her. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 366 Registered: Dec-07 | My mother-in-law actually spent a couple of hours a day up here on her last visit To her it was all about the music. I have a lot of vinyl near and dear to her. That's what it's about. VCool MW! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2153 Registered: Oct-04 | You did see these http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/gallostands.php Mike, right? |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1533 Registered: May-06 | No I did not CM. Still didn't see them. Nope I didn't see a thing I swears. You're messin' with my contentment with this frigin' thread. LOL Acoustic Art.....$3100 Power Cell.......$3000 Speaker Stands....$945 Drooling FREE I'm just working on finding a Lingo for my TT. That will take some time to save up for on its own. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1534 Registered: May-06 | Then again maybe you can make some for me CM???????????? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2154 Registered: Oct-04 | http://cgi.ebay.com/MICHIGAN-MAPLE-BLOCK-CUTTING-BOARD-BUTCHER-BLOCK-C_W0QQitemZ 110303987772QQihZ001QQcategoryZ46282QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153 .l1262 http://cgi.ebay.com/4-SOLID-COPPER-SPIKE-SPEAKER-AMPS-FLOOR-STAND-STANDING_W0QQi temZ290273819818QQihZ019QQcategoryZ14997QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Sure, it's not Mapleshade, but they just might work. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2155 Registered: Oct-04 | These bootleg DIY plinths would cost nearly as much as my P362s! |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1536 Registered: May-06 | Ok, I'm thinking about it. I mean the down side my wife has another 2 cutting boards in addition to the last two I used under my gear. Whoa!!! Maybe I should drop those two under the speakers with the existing base to see what happens... |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 368 Registered: Dec-07 | Now you're talkin'. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2156 Registered: Oct-04 | I do have some buzzy floors in my living room and imagine something like these would go a long way towards tightening things up. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1537 Registered: May-06 | Seriously you have to be careful what you put under your stuff. There is no one size fits all or anything like that. I had these foam and plastic moving discs you could put under heavy furniture to get it to slide along carpet before you had to lift it. I moved my audio rack using these discs (yes the spikes caused some level of damage to them). Then thought "Hmmm, I wonder?". So I left them in, turned on the kit and dropped a CD into the Apollo. I might as well have been using my DVD player. The sound was so watered down, veiled, subdued, pace destroyed.......... Awful result to that experiment. All I am saying is proceed with caution. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2157 Registered: Oct-04 | Careful what you say about DVD players buddy, I'm pretty fond of that DV7600 I'm starring at. I imagine the 3" hunks of maple (OK, glued hunks) spiked to your floor might fare better than some the plastic discs, but you're right, one never knows. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13103 Registered: May-04 | . "What? You have limits to what you'll do? That's a first." Sure I have limits, they may be loose limits but they're limits. Like one of my limits is not to have my room declared unsafe for human habitation or even walking through, like some people's room I could mention but won't just 'cause I'm a nice person. I have the rule that I should be able to find a record in the various stacks within an hour. I have the limit that you shouldn't be able to skewer your own shishkabob by walking into my room. Not that I'd know where those limits don't apply. Nope, won't hear it from me, not me, no sir, no way, not here, won't hear it here, nope, not in this lifetime. BTW, how's Marcia feeling about not having any coffee cups to use? . |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1538 Registered: May-06 | I am thinking about cordoning off a pathway from the door to the listening seat. It will swing by the beer fridge. I settled on hockey pucks (thanks Art) along with redeployed tepees (yes made out of bamboo barbeque skewers) as I did not want to see how Marsh would have responded upon discovering an empty cupboard. Well, how about that, I too have a limit to something... P.S. I can find some albums in less than an hour, most CDs in less that 10 minutes. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13105 Registered: May-04 | . Some?!!! I assume that would be the ones on top. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 369 Registered: Dec-07 | All the Floyd LPs are on the top JV. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1539 Registered: May-06 | Zep too! and Willie |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1540 Registered: May-06 | "Whoa!!! Maybe I should drop those two under the speakers with the existing base to see what happens..." Ok, I did just that, I took back my two 1" thick bamboo cutting boards and dropped them under my speakers. It was late so I had to run things turned down a bit. I have to say that this is the best 0.3 watts of music I have ever heard. Typically, or at least 99% of the time my TT's sound just exceeds that of the CD player. Tonight my CD player sounds as good as my TT did yesterday. I can't wait for Saturday to get here so I can really see what this does. We're talking tighter presentation, more finite details, deeper bass. The add on the link CM posted above might actually be telling the truth about those Mapleshade blocks. Between now and Saturday I am going to try and pick up a matching pair of maple cutting boards and some screws to use for spikes. If not maple, bamboo works just fine. But until then a shot of tequilla and a tip of the the hat to Christopher Molloy! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2158 Registered: Oct-04 | Well that's good to know. Ikea has some "hardwood" cutting boards for $20 a pop, and I've seen some thicker hardwood (2" maple?) cutting boards in close-out stores like Marshall's & T.J. Maxx in the $25 range. Mapleshade does claim that butcherblock & kiln-dried wood doesn't sound as good as it's air-dried solid maple, but it's a hell of a lot less expensive, and the results might be more subtle than Mapleshade claims. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 371 Registered: Dec-07 | Mike, are you experimenting with replacing the stock bases/spikes or just adding a layer? Are these stock bases: http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=25&product s_id=3373 It's too bad they didn't extend the plinth beyond the lowered edge for the grille, then your wife could have a juice gutter around the board if they didn't work out. "...but it's a hell of a lot less expensive, and the results might be more subtle than Mapleshade claims." Yep, worth a shot. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1545 Registered: May-06 | Neil, Yes those are stock bases, actually what my speakers came with and my dealer asked me to trade those bases back to him for black ones which I did not mind doing at all. My experiment continues. JV suggested Birch. So I dropped in at a local Home Depot and had 3/4" 4' X 8' chopped up to give me six 12" by 16" pieces. I had an additional six cut to let JV try. Tonight I swapped out the bamboo cutting boards for two of these under each of my speakers. I then stuck 3 Black Diamond Racing cones under the wood for mass loading into the floor. This was a further improvement over the cutting boards. I will experiment the next few weeks with various thicknesses. Whatever I settle on I will glue the boards together (if more than one) and add regular speaker spikes to the bottom. The improvement in the music is was fairly obvious in my case. Most dramatic being the soundstage, then isolation. Pace also improved. The subtle naturalness to vocals was another plus. More texture and nuances on instruments. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 373 Registered: Dec-07 | Mike, it sounds like you're making a lot of progress. BTW, I suspect that 3/4" sheet is birch veneer plywood. Commonly used for making furniture, built ins, etc. This may not matter; results are results, but I wanted to mention it. It should be easy to tell as I believe there is about 1/16" veneer on each side. Whatever I settle on I will glue the boards together (if more than one) and add regular speaker spikes to the bottom. That's what I'm not understanding. It sounds like you are not going to drill the new base to a template and mount the speakers to it (viz a viz the Mapleshade arrangement), but use two bases, both on spikes. Something like this below the existing base, at least in principle? http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/neplusultra.php -- It is frustrating not being able to properly set everything up here. I'll be sooooo glad to get all this extraneous crap out of here this winter and finally get to it. My ProAcs are on 3/4" plinths (no spikes on yet because they're going to be moved). I can see experimenting with this a bit once they're positioned. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1549 Registered: May-06 | Neil, Right on all counts!  |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1550 Registered: May-06 | There really are Black Diamond Racing Cones under the cut wood. Carpet is a bit thick which is why it looks like the speakers are on wood which is hoovering just over the carpet. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1552 Registered: May-06 | Today I added on more cut Birch plywood board under each speaker. Game over. It is beyond description. The middle of my sound stage elevated 3 feet. The left and right extend out past each speaker about 4 more feet on certain passages that did not have that effect previously. There is a new level of detail that I think has something to do with hitting the almost perfect balance for the isolation this experiment is providing for my speakers from my floor. I literally find 30 watts coming out of my MAC almost deafening all of a sudden. 3 watts seems loud. It is like I blinked and someone changed the front of my listening room into a band shell. For whatever reason these effects are more prevalent on my CD player than on my TT. The qualitative gap between the two has lessened. I knew my media room being on the 2nd floor was problematic but could not have imagined to the level it was until... well until I added the Birch plywood and the floor stopped sucking about half of the energy out of my speakers or so it seems. I would be interested in anyone's opinion especially if you have a second floor set up like mine or a first floor set up with a basement or crawl space below. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2165 Registered: Oct-04 | Wow, pretty exciting stuff, I'm glad it's all working out for you. I'm on the 2nd-floor of an apartment building, and am eager to see if my results are as apparent. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1554 Registered: May-06 | Thanks Christopher. What are you going to try? FWIW, I do not think just laying to board on the ground is sufficient. I think you have to spike it somehow. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1555 Registered: May-06 | As soon as I hit "Post..." I begin to wonder. My Black Diamond Racing Cones have a rounded peak at the end, not a nail like spike, so it cannot penetrate the carpet. I wonder if its' not coupling with the floor is playing a roll in my results here. Anyone? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2166 Registered: Oct-04 | "I wonder if its' not coupling with the floor is playing a roll in my results here. Anyone?" Is it playing a roll? Absolutely, and a favorable one apparently, but I can't help but to think that spiking the whole contraption would yield better results. As to what I plan, I'm keeping an eye out for some el-cheapo, 2-3" 15x18 maple cutting board; I then plan to pick up these spikes http://cgi.ebay.com/INTERTECHNIK-SILVER-SPIKES-AUDIO-ABSORBER-SPIKE-NEW_W0QQitem Z330117406542QQihZ014QQcategoryZ3276QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 . If I can't find some suitable maple boards, then maybe I'll glue-up some MDF, spray paint them black, and go from there. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1558 Registered: May-06 | A couple of other options would be Bamboo cutting boards or, of course, Birch plywood. I like those spikes but they're less than 1 1/2", where the spikes for my Gallo's are ~3". If I tap and thread the cones in, with tap they are ~2 1/4". |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2167 Registered: Oct-04 | It looks to me like the Gallo's base & cones would effectively do exactly one would hope to do by utilizing the boards & spikes. Could the perceived change in your soundfield just be a result of raising the speakers and not much else? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11134 Registered: Dec-04 | I don't think so, CM. It has been a year since my last visit, but I don't see the height doing that, and knowing how Mike listens as well. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2168 Registered: Oct-04 | Do you have the Gallo bases Nuck? They're not included with the speakers, are they? What's going on with the Totem deal? |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1560 Registered: May-06 | While in theory I can see your point CM, but no. I could feel almost every note through the floor before I started with adding the boards. Not any more. I wouldn't have to change the height as much as changing the angle, even then that would only account for one thing that is going on, the center stage image. Doesn't explain everything else that is happening along with it. For whatever reason 3 boards under each speaker was significantly better than 2 boards under each speaker. 4 boards did not seem to be better than 3, in fact I thought 3 boards were slightly better than 4. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1563 Registered: May-06 | CM, I don't think Nuck has the Gallos yet. The bases are included with the speakers, the maple option costs extra. What is not included is the sub amp for the 2nd coil, which drives the bass down to 20 Hz. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2170 Registered: Oct-04 | Hmmm, I don't know why I thought Nuck had the Gallos? Keeping track of everyone's gear hurts my head!..or maybe that's the vino? Is the sub amp an expensive option? I can't imagine not getting it. A legit 20Hz aye? |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1565 Registered: May-06 | Nuck has been pursuing Gallos at a distance for about 6 months now, that's probably why you thought that. The sub amp is ~$900. Yes it does take the woofers down to 20Hz. To me it is worth it as it seems to provide fuller bass up to over 100 Hz. Sort of the reverse of a super tweeter is the only explanation I can offer for it. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2171 Registered: Oct-04 | I'll be reading up on the Gallos over the next day or so. They do seem to be universally revered, so I guess they worth getting to know. At the moment I'm not exactly sure how that whole second voice-coil/amp thing works. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11142 Registered: Dec-04 | I am still considering the Gallo's in fact CM. I can use me ca200 amp for the 2nd coil, in fact. The 2nd coil needs an active XO and an amp. The other option is the Totem Mani-2 sigs and mono amping with 2Xca300 amps. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2173 Registered: Oct-04 | Two entirely different beast. Keep us up to date. http://cgi.ebay.com/Anthony-Gallo-Reference-3-1_W0QQitemZ270307473670QQcmdZViewI temQQptZSpeakers_Subwoofers?hash=item270307473670&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms =72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13120 Registered: May-04 | . "I am still considering the Gallo's in fact CM. I can use me ca200 amp for the 2nd coil, in fact. The 2nd coil needs an active XO and an amp." From working with MW's Gallos amp, the second coil amp also requires a continuously variable phase control in front of the amp's inputs. You might get by without this option but then you won't know if it's correct unless you have the option for experimentation. One of the BASH type plate amps would probably serve the same purpose as the Gallos amp but wouldn't have the nice enclosure. . |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 402 Registered: Jul-07 | until I added the Birch plywood and the floor stopped sucking about half of the energy out of my speakers or so it seems. MW, would it be the floor sucking the energy out of your speakers, or the room counteracting the energy (waves) the speakers are producing. By elevating the speakers, and by isolating them from the floor, I'm just wondering whether the changes to the acoustical pattern (reflective patterns, standing waves) has removed a "loss" area within the room. I don't know your room at all, but if I remember what you have said about it previously you have significant quantity and diversity of room treatments. If 3 watts sounds as loud as 30, I'm just wondering if it is as CM speculated earlier, that some of the benefit has been more as a result of orientation, than acoustic coupling. Facinating results regardless. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1568 Registered: May-06 | Chris and CM, Both logical observations worth consideration. While I cannot possibly rule out orientation having some impact I have one more compelling piece of input which has me believing it truly was the floor sucking energy from my speakers. My wife says she cannot hear my music anymore or it was quiet enough not to disturb her when sitting in our family room directly below the media room. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 403 Registered: Jul-07 | Interesting. With the speakers coupled to the floor it "sings" into your family room. Makes sense I guess. But there must be sufficient natural sound insulation to avoid significant transfer without the direct coupling. What level (height) are the drivers of the speakers at now ? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11145 Registered: Dec-04 | Continously variable phase control, JV? I don't know about this function... My options are 0 and 180 from the preamp, I don't know if the active XO that I am considering does this. I would have liked to think that the phase of the 2nd coil is quite stable, as it sees a limited frequency and presents a reasonably stable load. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2176 Registered: Oct-04 | OK, I had some time to squeeze in an audition of the Gallos this afternoon, so I called Sound By Singer in NYC to see if they have them, and if they are on display & ready to listen to; they told me they did, and an audition would be no problem. So far so good. So I show up at the store and told the receptionist that I would like to audition the Gallos, she asked who I spoke to, when I told her, she said the salesman had stepped out, and that I would have to wait. Mind you, there were several other salesmen & managers floating around, and the salesman I had spoke to had done nothing more than to tell me that the Gallos were in stock & on display. So I waited. Strike one: Making a customer wait. The salesman shows up about 10-minutes later and proceeds to tell me that he's not sure where the Gallos are. The smoke doesn't quite boil out of my ears...yet. "Sorry sir, you're out of luck, the Gallos aren't on the floor, they must have sold the floor models." When, between the time I called & the time I arrived? "No, but you don't want those Gallos anyway, they're not very good" Strike two: The bad mouth. "let me show you something better, let me show some Vandersteen 2Ce Sig. IIs." Strike three: The switcheroo. Eyes bulge, teeth clinch, and smoke actually erupts from both ears! While I have nothing against the Vandersteens, and would normally have loved to listened to them, I WAS TOLD THE GALLOS WERE IN STOCK AND I WANTED TO HEAR THEM! I let the guy have it. Then I cooled down, and made the best of the situation, and eventually auditioned the Vandersteens with some Music Fidelity gear, but I was honestly not in a good mood at that point, and was having a hard time relaxing. They seemed very good, but I felt they were missing something in the lower midrange & the very bottom end, but that might just have been due to the residual smoke in my ears. God I love the internet! |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1572 Registered: May-06 | Chris H, Woofer - mid-point 15 1/2" from top of carpet Lower Mid-range driver 27 1/4" etc. CDT tweeter - 31 1/2" etc. Upper Mid-range driver 35 3/8" etc. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1573 Registered: May-06 | That sucks CM. My dealer auditioned the Gallo's against Vandersteen 3's and the Gallos to me were clearly superior and they were in an inferior set-up (others may have different opinions). The Vandersteen 4's were at a price point that made listen not necessary. I like the 3's and since have heard the 4's and they are excellent, but that salesman was a chump for his BS. I know where you can listen to some Gallos if your are ever down this way. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2181 Registered: Oct-04 | Thanks, but if I get down to TX, first you'll have to promptly steer me to the nearest BBQ joint. I listen better on a full stomach. Maybe it's me, but I've met ONE good salesman in the several years I've been into this thing of ours, and his store closed. Honestly, it's been years since I was involved in retail sales, but in a NY minute, I could run circles around every damn one of these schmucks! -Don't make a customer wait, ever. If a salesman or manager is available, help out the customer first, and sort out the commission details after the customer leaves the store. -Don't bad mouth products. -Stick to the facts. -Listen to what the customer is saying, and not your own voice. -Let the customer decide, sell them what they want. -If your going to wear a shirt, tie, and slacks, learn how to use a damn iron. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 404 Registered: Jul-07 | you don't want those Gallos anyway, they're not very good Possible response: Then why in heaven's name do you carry them ? Please show me all of the other gear you have that is "not very good" so I can avoid it. Perhaps you should have a "not very good" section in your store. And you should stand there. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11149 Registered: Dec-04 | In Bluejeans. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2184 Registered: Oct-04 | Trust me, the guy got an ear-full. I'm more convinced than ever, that in NYC there is such a concentration of wealth (or at least there was), that sales people just have not had to work that hard to nail down the walk-in sale. The Gallos retail for about $3500, not exactly chump change, but with a wall full of interconnects & cables that cost just as much, and whole rooms dedicated to Krell and Focal JMLabs Grande Utopias, and high-end installations still chugging along in all those shinny new condo & co-ops, I just wasn't that important. The interesting thing is, these guys don't know me from Jack, and the damn store was empty. If you're a regular around here, you know that this is not the first (although it might be the last) time this has happened to me. The snooty, aging, has-been math teacher with a ponytail. The slobbish, A/V squad, beacon, egg & cheese sandwich eating, 5-o'clock shadow at 10AM, wrinkled shirt, sad-sack with an internet girlfriend. The semi-literate guy trying to stick to the assistant regional manager's talking points who will get fired in a week for trying to steal an iPod by taking it out in the trash. Salt of the earth right, well I'm sick of them all. Don't these guys ever look in the mirror and think "Jeezuz, I'm a walking cliche"? What am I saying, this is NYC, it's a city full of walking, talking cliches of one kind or another. It seems I get up on this side of the bed everday. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13126 Registered: May-04 | . Sorry to hear of your bad experience, CM. Unfortunately I can't think of a good reason that might excuse the store's attitude or the salesperson's behavior though he isn't the only one and NYC isn't the only place where this occurs. I just know it happens all too often. I would suspect the salespeople at this store have become so competitive amongst themself that they squabble over commissions when all they've done is answered a phone and lied in sufficient quantity to get the client into the store where that customer can have futher abuse heaped upon them. I've been in situations where the sales management encourages such atttitudes, kind of like chasing down the listing on every property you can manage and then waiting for someone else to sell the house so you get your 3% commission for sitting on your butt 80% of the time. Singer has a nationwide reputation of historically offering poor service and yet having a few decent salespeople who apparently arrive with their skills and knowledge already in place and stay until the management drives them away. I've worked at Starpower here in Dallas and (long after I left) they were rated #1 nationwide by Forbes magazine (according to their ads) in sales, service and installation quality. As a client I wouldn't go into the store to ask directions to their restroom. Needless to say, I didn't work there for long. Too often management is more interested in hobnobbing with the manufacturer's reps and engaging in the trappings of working with a very wealthy clientelle and they pay no attention to anything except the sales figures. Some times the owners are just not good at what they do. I've been treated just as poorly as a prospective client in several high end boutiques by the owners and management alike. It's a dying industry that is being kicked down a flight of stairs by the people who supposedly love the hobby and the music. The pity is the good salepeople and store owners who work at this thing are smeared with the stains of the slackers. Possibly this "salesman" didn't know how to sell anything other than the Vandersteens. I've worked with more than a few salespeople who just refuse to learn anything outside of their comfort zone and everyone gets shown the same product no matter their needs or specific requests. Or maybe this guy was just a stupid, lazy phuck who didn't bother to walk the floor when he arrived to see what was and was not in stock since he left the day before. I've worked with my share of those guys too. I've had the owner of one shop not be willing to move a cable to allow an audition, "I loaned out the cable between the pre amp and power amp so I can't turn the system on." So you're willing to loan out a cable to someone who has paid you money but you're not willing to allow me an audition if I'm not waving cash in your face?!!!! What the !@#$? indeed! The disregard for the customer is rampant and I don't normally vent about this sh!t but it happens all too frequently in this hobby. If you want to be in this business, do it right! If you don't know or don't want to learn how to do it right, get the he!! out and stay out. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13127 Registered: May-04 | . "I would have liked to think that the phase of the 2nd coil is quite stable, as it sees a limited frequency and presents a reasonably stable load." In a dual voice coil driver, the phase of the two voice coils can be shifted to provide further mechanical damping of the motor. In other words, you can shift the phase of the two vc's so they are working in opposition to each other and gain a stiffening of the driver mechanics. In the process you swap some degree of extension for a greater degree of control. "My options are 0 and 180 from the preamp, I don't know if the active XO that I am considering does this." What your two options are designed to accomplish is to provide a bit of flexibility in subwoofer placement relative to the satellite systems. In phase - not in phase. Unfortunately such an arrangement is only correct within a very small range of frequencies - as is the continuously variable control also I must add, once the two drivers responsible for "bass" are separated in space by more than a few feet, phase becomes increasingly incorrect as wavelength shortens and lengthens and it is only within that narrow bandwidth were both drivers synch that response is "correct" - and the difference between this or that position is sometimes relatively difficult to determine once you begin to listen to a few different types of music. In a typical satellite/subwoofer set up the continuously variable control simply gives the listener more options as to where in the response does the synch occur and how broad a frequency spectrum does it affect. Since the Gallos' dual voice coils are not separated in space but sit in unison with one another as the motor assembly to one common driver, phase shifting is used to control the diaphram (by controlling the relative phase of the motor) of the driver and thereby extend the bass response without excessive boom. It's a nice arrangement but one that's not found in most home systems. This is one where the car audio guys and some home theater designers are way ahead of us even though I don't care to listen to how they all too often make use of their new found power. . |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2187 Registered: Oct-04 | I'm in an industry that is perhaps one rung up the ladder from the fast food industry; one overrun by wannabe doctors with degrees in psudo-science & black magic, steroid users, washed-up athletes, and people who watched "Flashdance" one too many times. There is a celebration of sub-mediocrity by these folks to marvel at; massive levels attrition in membership roles, an epidemic of exercise induced injuries & debilities, while obesity levels (and all of it's related diseases) continue to rise like the national debt, yet these folks are thrilled with themselves. It's pathetic if you ask me, and I'd love nothing more than to see the whole thing "blown-up". The hi-fi industry ain't the exercise industry, but both could use a massive infusion of professionalism, IMHO. I don't care what industry you're in, from medicine to marshmallow maker, it's hard for caring, serious professionals to distinguish themselves from the riff-raff, but for those that can, there is a world of opportunity. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11155 Registered: Dec-04 | Very good friends. I will paste a copy of this discussion to the inside of my well-worn business travel bag. It is well worn over 15 years for a reason... It's called busting your hump, all day, every day, and doing what is best for the customer! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13128 Registered: May-04 | . Ya'know what's amazing? Some of these guys that treat clients like a piece of sh!t think they're working hard and doing things right. I used to sit sometimes and wonder what the He11 I was doing wrong. . |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2194 Registered: Oct-04 | Join the club Jan, on more than one occasion I've done the same exact thing. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 382 Registered: Dec-07 | I have an idea. Let's get Art to meet us at Eugene Hi-Fi and buy something there! No Gallos though, drat. CM, this guy is in your neck of the woods, although not 15 minutes away by any means. Reason I list this is because they are opening a retail outlet but are still deciding on what brands they will be carrying. You might check and see if they plan to carry the Gallos. If so, might be good for listen. http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1231876597&/Gallo-Acoustics-Refe rence-3-sp They have the 3.1s used as well if you go to their site. You probably know more about this outfit than I do. All I know is I see them a lot on A'gon. MW, sounds like you have hit the sweet spot? And yes, I believe you are correct about the floor. If I understand this even vaguely, in the simplest terms you generally want to damp to a resonant surface and spike to a rigid one. The thick carpet and pad is a good insulator for sound, but if the spikes went mostly through it, that would explain the sound below. My speakers are on carpet/pad, but concrete beneath. I suspect I might get very different results, but still worth some experimenting. First, I'll get them positioned, then put the spikes on and see what that does. I expect getting the plinths off the carpet will open them up. In my situation, I cannot imagine that damping to the floor will produce any good results, but who knows. Happy Thanksgiving! ...Belatedly to my friends to the north |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8227 Registered: Feb-05 | No Gallo's but they have Devore Fidelity...do your research and I'll meet there...lol! |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1580 Registered: May-06 | The Gallo's in the link from Neil are the first version. The 3.1s have removed the tweeter switch and have a couple of other minor improvements. This link explains it all; http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/gallo5/ref31.html |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11171 Registered: Dec-04 | Sigh. Talked over the Gallo's with my dealer, and it doesn't look good. Last year he had 2 pairs, and I was close to a deal for the all black for around 3k all-in. For our American friends, understand that 13% tax is there as well. However, my 'living arrangements' changed about then, and I begged off the deal. The dealer now has just one set, and the list price just went to 4300CDN for the 3.1's. Now we are stuck. The dealer has to have a set there to demo, and to replace the ones he has will be his cost, and considering the exchange rate, thats a lot of money. So he cant sell the ones he has for cheap, and I am not gonna go near them for that kind of money. So we wait... |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2208 Registered: Oct-04 | That sucks. This guy seem to sell the 3.1s at this price all the time, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem%26%26item%3D180307483257&ssPageNam e=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008 Alas, they will not ship internationally. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11174 Registered: Dec-04 | CM, you da man. I will watch this guy, I can ship to a depot across the line and drive them back. Kinda hard to sneak them in, however... Pay the man, Barney. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 396 Registered: Dec-07 | Nuck, this guy will ship to Canada. I would watch out for the warranty if you are buying new, since many of these turn out to be unauthorized dealers selling w/o warranty. Gallo should have a policy wrt this. http://cgi.ebay.com/A-GALLO-Reference-Series-Ref-3-1-Towers-Black-PAIR_W0QQitemZ 170265171351QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_Subwoofers?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116 Buy the time you get the shipping, exchange, and taxes in, it's at least mid-3's. This guy ships all over the world if you are considering used. He is putting things on sale until December 2, but his site appears to be under construction at the moment. He had a pair of 3.1s the last time I checked. http://www.jbaudiopimp.com/ |
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Bronze Member Username: 900ssPost Number: 16 Registered: Jun-08 | Make sure to ship all your new Xmas electronic goodies to Synergistic Reaserch so they can be "struck by the Tesla coil in the Quatum Tunnel". Then just sit back and relax knowing you have the ultimate in sound quality, and no tweeks of any kind will make it better. Will it work on my buds? Brewster |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1592 Registered: May-06 | Got my stands set. Shelf liner between each piece of Birch plywood, and 3 spikes tapped and screwed into each stand. Yes, doing both tightened and quieted the sound that much more. I may still screw all 3 pieces of wood together and prime and paint them. For now I think I will just sit back and enjoy the clarity of listening to less than 0.3 watts per channel. It really is sweet to be able to completely enjoy the music at this low level when the house is quiet (and needs to stay quiet). |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2209 Registered: Oct-04 | How'bout a pic Mike? |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 403 Registered: Dec-07 | Lowest I've seen for new 3.1s. http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=25&product s_id=3370 They independently warrant their items, but I did not see anything that said they shipped internationally, so they probably don't. $2,224 is pretty inticing. Due diligence goes without saying, but may be worth looking into. CM, they have a warehouse in NYC. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2211 Registered: Oct-04 | ...Which means I would have to pay tax. I'm not in a position to buy the Gallos at this time, but I would like to give them a listen. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 413 Registered: Jul-07 | Hey Nuck, this is not exactly what you're looking for, but.... http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/106817-rare_anthony_gallo_nucleus_referen ce_ultimates_speakers/ |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11188 Registered: Dec-04 | Chris, thanks, I have followe these speakers fr a while. I think MR had it right when he suggested taking up bowling as a hobby. These have been around the block, I might make a low ball offer, but that aint my style. Merci, mon ami. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2214 Registered: Oct-04 | Found these pics of Mapleshade Bedrock Ultra 2 bookshelf floor mounts    That looks like this when loaded  I'm thinking this might be a better project for me at this time. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 405 Registered: Dec-07 | ...Which means I would have to pay tax. Actually no, but then this is taxing enough.  |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3104 Registered: May-05 | Chris Molloy, You've been around the Manhattan shops way too much. To see how its supposed to be done, come up to Westchester and check out Accent on Music in Mt Kisco. Speaking of a shady field... My '97 Volvo 850 Turbo has 215k miles and will cost a couple grand to get running 100% again. My father is a mechanic, and that's his cost, even with the free labor. Time for a new (to me) car. Can't afford a new S60 and don't really want one, as its just not the same car. Mechanically it is, but everything else is different. I've been to 8 dealers and driven 10 different cars so far. And you guys think stereo salesmen are bad. And you'd think they'd straighten out their act, given the current state of the economy and car market. I'm not looking for something for free, not by a long shot. But why can't anyone show me a good slightly used car for a respectable price? Just when I thought I had the right car for the right price, I get home and research it a bit more on line - class action lawsuit against the manufacturer for the exact car I was considering. I thought I was finally done. The salesman didn't like it when I returned his call and told him why I was passing on the car. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11195 Registered: Dec-04 | Stu, for various reasons, you might want to look at a brand new Malibu. I had one for a rental, and it did everything right. I also enjoyed my time in a Saturn Aura, but for different reasons on a date in Indiana. I have a friend who is a carpenter, he can get maple in 3" stock, and lose very little in finishing...hmmm...CM, have you mass loaded the Tekton cabinets at all? I don't hear enough about those speakers from y'all. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1593 Registered: May-06 | I do not see where the Mapleshade feet actually penetrate carpeting. They look like they would set up just like my Black Diamond Racing Cones which I just removed in lieu of spikes which penetrate through the carpet. While the Black Diamond Racing Cones certainly worked quiet well, the spikes were an improvement. FWIW. Pics are currently in production. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11198 Registered: Dec-04 | So was Chinese Democracy...in production. Y'all busted byballs so bad on the last photo shoot, I figgur I will have a poke here. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2215 Registered: Oct-04 | I might just have to do that Stu, perhaps we can make a day of it? Regarding the car, I purchased an '05 Honda Accord LX with 13K mi. in '06. The savings was considerable in comparison to purchasing new. This particular car was a "Manager's Special" which was advertised on the dealer's website, and was convieniently skipped-over by the salesman when I visited the dealer. So I found the car I wanted, I told him what I wanted to pay for it, and ultimately when he returned from the obligatory "...let me ask the manager, and see what I can do." song & dance, I got the car I wanted at the price I said I would pay. I would imagine the buyer has much more leverage now than ever before. I don't know if that helps, but it's just my most recent experience. Nuck, the Tekton's are in cold storage for the moment, as is the Trends TA-10.1, and the Kenwood KR6600. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11199 Registered: Dec-04 | Reading throught the (extensive) liner notes from the Wilbury's collection. Nice, nice collection, guys. Christmas is coming for someone somewhere, so ask for this box set. Great artwork and toss-ins, a 12" single, signed in my case (I don't know by whom, it looks like a presription.)  The music needs no ovations, the quality of the body of work and the impeccable production quality of the recordings is still among the best that I have ever, ever heard. And Roy Orbison, bless his black heart, is incredibly great in the aduration that these huge musicians laid on him. 5 pucks out of 5 |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11200 Registered: Dec-04 | CM, just send the speakers to me in January. I might find a nice tube amp to run them... They are sooo lonely in that cooooold, daaaaaark closet. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2216 Registered: Oct-04 | If you're that interested in another SDFR to keep the Lings company, then I'll make that happen. They ain't even broken-in yet. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1594 Registered: May-06 | Ok, after an hour of balancing stands, then speakers, then adjusting the tilt, here goes...  Best I can do with cellphone camera, still can't find that Coolpix camera I supposedly own..  |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2218 Registered: Oct-04 | http://www.auralex.com/sonicprint/ |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1599 Registered: May-06 | How do you even think to find this stuff CM? First, the Pink Floyd poster stays. Next, I will check into what the Ken General Collection (minus the bunny prints) would cost, but I only need like 5 or 6. After this you all will have me selecting matching fabric to cover my DIY rolled fiberglass base traps. I see where this is heading. Geez, then what do I do with my monochromatic maroon or grey auralex panels? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2219 Registered: Oct-04 | It keeps me away from the seedier stuff on the web. You did see these, right? http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_speakerdudes/speakerdudes.asp Not exactly what we've been talking about, but interesting nonetheless. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1600 Registered: May-06 | No I did not see those until now and it does not matter. Yes interesting, however based upon the data available, their graphical representation of their effectiveness, they pale in comparison to the first quixotic path you led me on. Ok, I did mis-state that, the stands I built based upon the Mapleshade model were truly a blessing to my room. But I went down that path sans empirical evidence of the truth yet found audio nirvana anyway. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2220 Registered: Oct-04 | The MoPads would seem to be a no muss, no fuss remedy for speakers on flimsy shelves or glass tables and such. I'm wondering if a heavy slab of wood spiked to a creaky old wood floor really is the best solution, or whether some sort of dampening is in order? |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1627 Registered: May-06 | Molloy, Might be another opportunity for you to hear the Gallos. http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1233601402&/Gallo-Acoustics-Refe rence-3.1- Warning! Warning! Warning! This dealer lists a lot of astronomically priced esoteric gear. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2173 Registered: Jun-07 | mmMMmmmMM Gallo's on Bryston. I wonder how that would sound. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2249 Registered: Oct-04 | Thanks for the heads-up Mike. On a side note, I had this misfortune of listening to a pair of MartinLogan Source electrostatics today, and they were, by far, the very worst "higher end" speakers I have ever heard. Murky mud throughout, and a sweet-spot the size of a quarter, absolutely yucky! But they do look cool. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2250 Registered: Oct-04 | That "Audio Pimp" joint is about an hour away from me. It might just be worth the trip to get a good listen to those Gallos. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 75 Registered: Mar-08 | CM, I just joined a gym about four months ago (for the first time ever) and have dropped 20 pounds, six inches in the waste, and 53 points of colesterol. It's not all bad. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 76 Registered: Mar-08 | I've got no room treatments yet other than furnature, rugs, and curtains, but... My Dali's weight about 140 lbs. each. They are on a plynth that is some solid back material about 2" thick (there's a chip in one side of one plynth and it is consistent inside) - it's not cold to the touch like stone and it is glossy black on the outside - might be resin. When I got them used, the spikes were missing. They're sitting on cermaic tile that's on a concrete slab. The floor is not perfectly level, but the speakers seem to be pretty stable. Do you think spikes should help any? How about spikes to maple block. Spikes to maple block to spikes? Other options? Since this is a working living room - I was a little worried about the spikes chewing up the cermaic. MW - this makes two things to talk to you about this weekend... |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 77 Registered: Mar-08 | Nuck and CM, I heard the Gallo's while I was in Dallas at a place MW knows (while I was stranded there for 3 days during the AA recall experiment). They were set up for the audition in a room that some Vandy 5A's were featured in. The Vandy's were a real joy at 5x the price, but the Gallo's were definitely interesting. It may have been the hasty setup and perhaps it was not exactly tweeked in, but I'm not sure I didn't like the Gallo's better without using the second amp on the woofer. It might just be a first impression - but it didn't make quite as much difference as I was expecting and the 2nd drive made it seem a bit bloated on the low end. If I had bought them though, I don't think I could have resisted getting the 2nd amp - something about no Hz left behind. The coherency and sound stage were quite impressive. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 78 Registered: Mar-08 | Has anyone tried isonodes under there speakers? They say each large isonode handles 10 lbs - so that would only be 14 isonodes per speaker for me - looking at about $175 for that. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13219 Registered: May-04 | . Things that squish - even a little bit - generally are not the best choice under speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2257 Registered: Oct-04 | Keep up the good work Rick. Play it steady & safe, nothing worse than blowing out your knee in the pursuit of health. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 415 Registered: Jun-08 | How about the old hockey puck under the speaker. Not too squishy but should provide some good isolation and yet keep the speakers planted. I've been thinking, how about using the jumbo pop bottle plastic caps with a marble (glass or stone) sitting in it to sit your speakers on. It would provide limited contact and isolation. If you attached the caps to the speaker bottoms and then dropped the marbles underneath, you could also roll the speakers around on them...kind of like the bearing you find in Totem claws. I've been wanting to try this myself. If there's a will, there's a way. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1646 Registered: May-06 | Rick, First of all my speakers are on the second floor so I had to do something to tame the energy release from the speakers to the floor. Whenever I played them the family unwilling got to listen in the family room downstairs. I spoke to a Gallo engineer about what I did and why and he seemed really keen about getting it all down. The main thing is you want to do is to couple the speakers to the floor in some manner. I think spikes on pennies would work for you Rick. You could thread the spikes to level your speakers which is more important than you may realize. As to your visit with John, it takes too much time to properly dial in the sub-amp for you to wait for when you are wanting to demo the speakers. Bloated bass is not what I am getting. It acts like a supertweeter but on the lows instead of the highs. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 79 Registered: Mar-08 | JV - so do you think that the same applies to other components? - like a CD player for instance - would marbles for isolation be better than something like isonodes? I can see why the speakers might be the exception here since they are sourcing vibrations and might tend to hop around. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13221 Registered: May-04 | . You must decide what you are trying to accomplish with your tweak. Some components prefer to be mechanically grounded while others prefer to be isolated. Quite often one component needs both. A CD has a mechanical system that needs some isolation from both internal and external sources of resonance and feedback. It also has a transformer that is a source of those internal resonances. Mechanically grounding the transformer to drain off its vibration or damping the transformer to stabilize its resonance will both be beneficial to the player in most cases. However, trying to mechanically ground the transformer while also isolating the player itself is not a simpe task. The same goes for a pre amp and a power amp. A turntable however presents so many conflicting objectives it is difficult to get the right solution no matter what you try. Things that squish tend to isolate and damp but also allow free motion so they are a compromise. Things that don't squish tend to mechanically ground or isolate depending on how they are employed. A tiptoe type cone can be both an isolator when used with the tip in one direction and a mechanical coupler when used with the tip in the opposite direction. The problem with speakers is not that they "hop around" but that they employ both rigid materials with squishy components enclosed or bolted onto those rigid components. So, there's your answer. You first need to think aout what you are trying to do and then figure out which appraoch will have the most positives and the least negatives because it is all a trade off of some sorts. Try that and listen. Then reverse your thinking and try that. Then listen. Then think. . |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 425 Registered: Jun-08 | Jan, I appreciate your description and don't disagree but now I'm more confused then ever. Ultimately this is more of an artform than a science or at least, no where close to being an exact science. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 80 Registered: Mar-08 | JV - I see more and more that you are very consistent in your answers: 1) Think about what you want to get to. 2) Try something that might accomplish that. 3) Listen to it. 4) Figure out if it's better or worse than before. Keep it if better. 5) Repeat until done (or run out of time and money). I can't argue with that logic. One side of me loves this hands on experimentation thing. The other side me wishes it were more analytic and could be 'solved' more directly. Of course the latter is probably true if you can throw enough physics into the analysis - and even the physics you do have is needed to guess what you might try for an experiment. Anyway - if if you are inclined to indulge me some more - let's stick with the speaker for a moment. I'm trying to 'think' through what resulted from MW's experiment and how I might apply that result and your comments to my case for more experiments. I would guess you would ideally want the speaker driver to be totally fixed in space (no movement) so that all the mechanical energy transduced by the driver is exerted on the speaker diaphram. Any mechanical movement of the driver would tend to either increase or decrease the diaphram displacement, introducing more non-linearity into the speaker's frequency response. (I'm intentionally ignoring the acoustics of the enclosure relative to how it handles the sound waving radiating from the rear of the speaker). Given a rigid enclosure, this would lead to trying to anchor the enclosure to an external rigid body with large mass. With a heavy speaker, a three point contact balances the load on the three points evenly, allows the speaker orientation to be adjusted, and allows any forces generated by the enclosure to be applied to the floor. Assuming the enclosure and the floor (building) don't have any resonance points - this would seem to be the ideal for the speaker? Is this a good starting point? But the enclosure and the floor have resonances. So in MW's case, the enclosure was coupling with the floor and the floor vibrations were bleeding off some of the energy the speakers should have been radiating into the air of the 2nd floor room. The maple blocks probably absorb some of this energy - radiating some of it back into the same room, further reduncing the energy going into the floor, and probably changing the spectrum of the energy that is passed to the floor. Does this sound right? I'm guessing any wood that is commonly used in instruments because of its resonant properties is probably be a good candidate for this (e.g. maple is preferred, and birch second preferred, on drum shells). The thickness of the wood will also affect the frequency response. The thickness arrived at 'experimentally' is the right answer, but I'm not sure whether the wood is doing more to 'isolate' or to 'resonate' in this case - perhaps the wood vibration is out of phase with the speaker vibration which effectively isolates the speaker from the floor. In my case, the floor is relatively rigid (ceramic on concrete slab) and I'm guessing does not have much in the way of resonances - is this a good approximation or am I mistaken? If the floor is rigid, would I be best off in this case, trying to get the best coupling between the speaker and the floor? Does the shape of the contact (surface area) have any effect on the coupling - e.g. are point contacts the optimum to get all frequencies to couple equally? You indicated something about the direction of the points making a difference - how would floor contacts with points on the speaker differ from enclosure contacts with points on the floor (assuming a rigid leg in this case)? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11301 Registered: Dec-04 | Rick, 3 points are just easier to balance with when drunk. Just your description of your room seems pretty hard and difficilt to coupe with. The broadcast across the room could have a lot of reflections. That said, I bet it's a great place to have a drink! Cheers |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 81 Registered: Mar-08 | Nuck You're welcome to stop by and sample the scotch and listen to some music anytime. Look me up if your travels take you to Tucson. I'll PM you my phone. Surprisingly, the room's not as live as it might sound. I'll try getting some of Dali's spikes next for grins - but was more curious about how this stuff works -guess there's more than enough ideas running around on the web to try things to see if they make a difference - hopefully most can be reproduced more inexpensively than what most people want to sell them for. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 82 Registered: Mar-08 | Ok - holy cow!! I'm ready to suspend belief - the tweeks win. I got some iso-nodes and tried them on by CDP. The bottom of my Oppo is a bit irregular so I first tried putting them on the existing feet which are smaller than the iso-node. Kazam! - Bass is extended and much fuller, soundstage a bit wider, instruments more focused in the sound field, more detail, but noticed that midrange was a bit forward and highs somewhat attenuated - vocals coming forward to much, lost the sheen on guitar strings and cymbals. But old CDs suddenly sounding more alive and analog. Thought maybe to try putting the isonodes on the chassis instead of on the existing feet - still not much change. Was going to try putting two in the front and none in the back when I noticed the shelf the CDP is setting on is pretty warped. Tried to use 3 isonodes and Wahla!! The highs were back and the base was still there. Amazing - it's not like a veil removed - it more like a towel removed. Tried several old CDs that had previously sounded lack luster and they were all reminding me of what my old phono setup used to sound like. Mechanical vibrations do effect my system and slight changes in emphasis within the spectrum have a major impact on the perceived sound. This was the best $18 I've spent in a while (the package cost $24 for four, but I'm only using 3). |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13228 Registered: May-04 | . "With a heavy speaker, a three point contact balances the load on the three points evenly, allows the speaker orientation to be adjusted, and allows any forces generated by the enclosure to be applied to the floor. Assuming the enclosure and the floor (building) don't have any resonance points - this would seem to be the ideal for the speaker? Is this a good starting point?" That's about right though the weight of the speaker makes no real difference here, you are mass loading the enclosure to its supporting structure if you choose to use spikes, or marbles or anything where a large surface comes down to a small surface. Think Greek column, the keystone and the keystone alone does all the work of supporting the structure. By concetrating whatever mass you are dealing with on a very small point, you have distributed the total mass of the (in this case) speaker system onto pinpoints of contact area. "The maple blocks probably absorb some of this energy - radiating some of it back into the same room, further reduncing the energy going into the floor, and probably changing the spectrum of the energy that is passed to the floor. Does this sound right?" Not'xactly. If MW has taken his speakers and rigidly connected the spikes to their enclosure - which he has - then, yes, some of the energy from the speaker enclosure (which is set in motion/resonance by the movement/pressure wave of the drivers) will end up in the spikes. However they can and should act as mechanical diodes and to some extent filters as the energy must pass from a point of high contact area to a point of low contact area. That would slough off some of the energy within the structure of the spike with that energy being converted to heat. Add to this their mass loading effect and the spikes can become effective in multiple ways. In the case of MW's birch ply bases, these are also mounted on spikes so the same filtering/loading action occurs there and litle energy from the speaker actually reaches MW's less than rigid flooring materials. Therefore by the time the remaining energy from the speakers reaches the floor, there shouldn't be much left of the actual speaker enclosure resonance to begin with. Unfortunately, the acoustic energy is still in the room and in the flooring materials so second floor and pier and beam foundations tend not to sound like basements when it comes to low frequency response. Of course, in this part of Texas basements are not a common addition to a house and when they are, they seldom make for good listening rooms. I doubt that very much of the speaker's energy is re-radiated into the room by the bases themself since I suggested MW add a thin layer of damping material between the three layers of ply. So while each sheet of plywood must resonate when it has energy introduced, the structure, stability and rigidity of the ply means a high damping factor is applied by each successive sheet of wood and then each sheet meets a dampening material that separates it from the next 3/4" piece of ply further reducing the amount of transferred energy from one sheet of ply to the next. One thing I would say is happening here is the speakers now have a smaller area to affect (vs. the entire floor of his listening room and the wals and the ceiling and any adjacent structures) which would raise the resonant point of the support structure and a high "Q" high frequency resonance is typically less destructive of musical energy than are low "Q" low frequency resonances. I would expect the contribution of the bases to the overall sound to be somewhat minimal when it comes to re-radiating energy into the room. But I did suggest the birch ply over the maple for reasons of choice, birch ply tends to "sound good" when used in a music system. Finally, I did caution MW that anything he placed under his speakers would add some of its own sonic signature to the final sound. I would expect maple to sound different in this application than MDF which would sound quite different than birch play which would in turn sound uniquely its own when compared to bamboo. How intently anyone focusses on the result would be up to their listening skills and the transparency of the system. MW has done a reasonable amount of room treatment to make his room less of a contributor to the overall sound in the room, so the contribution of each device now is more clearly defined. "I'm guessing any wood that is commonly used in instruments because of its resonant properties is probably be a good candidate for this (e.g. maple is preferred, and birch second preferred, on drum shells). The thickness of the wood will also affect the frequency response. The thickness arrived at 'experimentally' is the right answer, but I'm not sure whether the wood is doing more to 'isolate' or to 'resonate' in this case - perhaps the wood vibration is out of phase with the speaker vibration which effectively isolates the speaker from the floor." You raise several points here that should be discussed. First, the contribution of the materials to the sound of the system is a matter of choice and taste. Sonus Faber designers are fond of asking, "You've never seen a violin made of MDF, have you?" With that bit of logic their speakers are contructed of hardwoods and not glued and compressed bits of whatever was on the floor of the shop. One challenge here is MDF is dimensionally stable while hardwood is not. So any ply material will be a midway compromise that includes the qualities of stability and damping with the qualities of (hopefully) more musical resonance. Which materials resonate "musically'? Well, I guess that depends on what you consider musical when it comes to resonance. My stock answer here is, if a mahogany and rosewood Les Paul or a laminated maple, mahogany and rosewood ES335 sounded like the alder/ash/rosewood combination of a Stratocaster, don't you suppose God would still be playing a Gibson as he did back in those days with Ginger and Jack? Given choices we tend to pick what sounds good to our own ears. As far as "out of phase" information we are reaching into a hole where we are in danger of overthinking something. I dislike that because when we "think" we know how something operates we typically underthink the possiblities by relying only upon our existing knowledge base. In other words, if it doesn't make sense to us, we tend to either dismiss it or think about how it might operate only in terms of what we already know and not from the results (I hear this) backward (this is the cause). I told MW to stop such reasoning when he attached a tiny strip of foil to his CD's and placed a colored piece of paper in the tray of his player and perceived an increased quality in reproduction. (Actually, I sent him three pieces of paper, each a different color and finish, and asked him to listen to each. His results were surprisingly much the same as my own and we both listen to the effects of paper in the room now, not an easy explanation when you consider the scale of the results. But then we are also hearing the benefits of an 81mG aspirin being strategically placed in the room.) Not much in the way of conventional thinking accounts for such changes when we rely only on what we already know. That said, mass has its advantages and disadvantages. This is most often seen when someone places their components in/on a heavy piece of furniture reasoning the mass will do most of the work of disippating the acoustic energy within the room. However, mass acts as a filter which becomes selective in nature by removing the smaller high frequency energy first and leaving the larger more detrimental low frequencies relatively untouched. The low frequency information now has been slowed by the process of moving through the mass/filter and now enters the components "out of phase" with the information that is then being retrieved by the system. In this case the system tends to sound smeared and lifeless as a result of "mass filtering/mass delay". Anyone who has done some reading or has personal experience with the Rega and Linn tables should understand how a lightweight support system actually makes the music sound better by allowing little to be filtered but passing what is there quickly and more or less in synch with what is happening in the player at the moment. "In my case, the floor is relatively rigid (ceramic on concrete slab) and I'm guessing does not have much in the way of resonances - is this a good approximation or am I mistaken?" Everything that is set in motion by energy must have a resonant frequency. Energy cannot be destroyed, only converted to another forum of energy or passed through, often times both. "If the floor is rigid, would I be best off in this case, trying to get the best coupling between the speaker and the floor? Does the shape of the contact (surface area) have any effect on the coupling - e.g. are point contacts the optimum to get all frequencies to couple equally? You indicated something about the direction of the points making a difference - how would floor contacts with points on the speaker differ from enclosure contacts with points on the floor (assuming a rigid leg in this case)?" There is no answer I can provide that is certain. First, you must decide how you want the music reproduction in your room to sound. Secondly, most of this "points up" or "points down" thing is component or speaker dependent. I began listening to a pair of speakers awhile back with the more conventional points down approach and ended up with the points up to give the cabinet the ability to more quickly release its energy and not be so dramatically influenced by the stand/support structure. As I said earlier, "You first need to think about what you are trying to do and then figure out which approach will have the most positives and the least negatives because it is all a trade off of some sorts. Try that and listen. Then reverse your thinking and try that. Then listen. Then think." I would only add to that to listen some more and make listening the final deal breaker. Just don't overthink the project because the designer might be just a bit smarter than you, have more facilities do research results or possibly just be operating on a different thought process than you can imagine, like the piece of paper in the CD tray influencing sound quality. Look at the top of this thread to find a good example of something that appears to work quite well but has little in the way of an explanation that can be easily attached to it. . |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11306 Registered: Dec-04 | I will have the apirin and re-read that one. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 83 Registered: Mar-08 | Nuck, You might want to try aspirin instead of wearing funny clothes - the former works much better on hangovers. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_rTucson, AZ USA Post Number: 84 Registered: Mar-08 | Jan Thanks so much for that long and detailed response. I appreciate the issues with trade-off's between two non-ideal states of a mechanical system and that the ear and the preferences of the listener are the final decider. I sense your long experience here gives you a much richer since of what options there are and what possible results they might achieve. Either that or Molloy has had a few more posts that I've missed that have brought more fodder to the table. BTW - is there a post running around about the paper on the CD thing? And on the Vibratron - I see that they obviously missed the point that you need the Tibetan monks to activate the bowls. And if you could get them to trade their saffron robes for yellow fibreglass rolls, they would also add an additional amount of accoustic damping to the environment and could extend the bass response by chanting along. Actually - I wonder if a large gong might be something interesting to try - I don't have one - but they are easy to find and generally not that expense - particularly if you already want to have one in your drum kit. I think I'll play with new cables before I go down that path. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1713 Registered: May-06 | Modification to the above built and photographed bases for my Gallos. Got my stands set. Shelf liner between each piece of Birch plywood, and 3 spikes tapped and screwed into each stand. Yes, doing both tightened and quieted the sound that much more. JV felt that the "music" was missing from the several modifications I had made over the past couple of months. From what I am hearing now the only thing I could think of is that the Birch's properties might be the culprit. The presentation with the Birch is very detailed, tight, and exact. While JV didn't specify what the cause was I had one previous experience which tracked with this. I had purchased and placed Black Diamond Racing Cones under every piece of gear I had. I also had Black Diamond Racing Pucks along with the Cones under my pre-amp and CD player. JV suggesting swapping out the cones and pucks with wooden Jenga tiles. The sound became warmer with more texture when I did that. This being eerily similar I added a bamboo cutting board between the speakers and the top piece of Birch. Nuck thought that this brought more life to the presentation. I went out yesterday to Big Lots and purchase six 19" by 13" cutting boards made by Skillcraft. I later determined the boards to be "American hardwoods". So much for specifics. I have left the bottom piece of Birch plywood with the spikes in place and layered shelf liner between it and each of the three cutting boards (shrink wrap left on for cosmetics). This also raised the speakers by approximately one more inch. It looks good and sounds better. Back to the scotch and music. My kit is in lock down until I save up the cash to get an outboard motor for the TT or Molloy comes along with another wiz-bang idea. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11382 Registered: Dec-04 | MW, the speakers keep going up one inch at a time...think on that one. Hardwood was better than the bamboo? Huh... |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1714 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, excellent point about the elevation. I took down the front spikes 3 rotations @ to offset. May require further fine tuning. Thanks "Hardwood was better than the bamboo? Huh... Hey, it's American hardwoods! It apparently is whatever they make butcher blocks out of as they instruct you to use butcher block oil on them prior to using. Then again they may be just wanting to sell more oil...  |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11384 Registered: Dec-04 | That looks nice, Mike in a Minnie Pearl kinda way... |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2271 Registered: Oct-04 | It's certainly nicer looking than the plywood. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1716 Registered: May-06 | What the !@#$? I ain't left no price tags on any of dem there cuttin' boards. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-35TqgqL1_w&feature=related |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1717 Registered: May-06 | Thanks CM. You know they say in golf, that your driver has to be aesthetically appealing to be effective. BTW Christopher, have you tried building the bookshelf bases? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13265 Registered: May-04 | . I think they'd probably sound better if you oiled them. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1718 Registered: May-06 | It's bad enough how Marsh thinks the room looks, now you want me to make it smell like a grease monkey's garage? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2272 Registered: Oct-04 | http://www.pledge.com/orange-oil/ |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2273 Registered: Oct-04 | If I get around to it, I'm going to build up something like you've done for my P362s, but I'm thinking 3" of MDF. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11386 Registered: Dec-04 | hehehe |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13266 Registered: May-04 | . You don't change the grease fittings on a cutting board. http://www.mastergardenproducts.com/tungoil.htm If you never plan to use these as cutting boards. Vegetable or olive oil if you do, or ... http://www.crateandbarrel.com/family.aspx?c=660&f=8773 . |
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New member Username: Barry_njNew Jersey Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-09 | Great thread guys. I've been reading over at AGon and also AVS forums, but just found this thread today. It's funny, but I was looking on ebay at the 3" thick maple butcher block too, but I wanted more height. Surfing/Searching around, I found Scott Stein, www.steinaudio.com and I'm having a set of stands built by to my specs. They are 7.5" tall x 12" wide x 18" deep and they'll look like this...  Chris M. I'm in northeast NJ, about 15 min from the GWB maybe you could hear the Gallo's at my place one day. FWIW the 3.1s replaced a set of Reference IIs I'd had for about 11 years. I still have a set of the v1 Solos too. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1726 Registered: May-06 | Welcome to the site Barry. What material did you chose for your stands? Are the bases solid? It appears that the speaker is still coupled to its original base, it also appears the original spikes may still be on the original base (as is mine), then you have two more stages, both larger than the original base. Are the three (it looks like original plus a riser then bottom) bases coupled together? Will you be spiking the speakers to the floor? Is your set up on a ground floor (w/o basement) or is there a room below the floor where your speakers sit? Was this a factor in seeking out stands or was height your only objective? We certainly hope you come back and let us know how this solution works for you as I would expect some change in the presentation of the speakers beyond image height. JV, the link Bary provides has an interesting cabinet on the first page and some horn cabinet options in the "Customer Project" tab. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2298 Registered: Oct-04 | Thanks Barry, I might just take you up on that one day. I've spoke with Scott Stein, seems like a stand-up guy, I'd interested to see what you think of his work. |
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New member Username: Barry_njGSP Exit 165, New Jersey Post Number: 2 Registered: Jan-09 | Hi Michael, The custom bases will be made of 3/4" mdf. They are one box, the upper portion of the box is 6" tall x 10" wide x 16" deep. The lower portion is 1.5" tall x 12" x 18". The lower portion is 2 pieces of 3/4" mdf bonded together. The speakers connect to their stock bases via 6 long allen key screws into their aluminum chassis. I think I'll use the 2 central screws, and another 4 into the spike mounts on the stock base to attach the speakers to the top of the custom base. Then I'll fill the custom base with sand or shot. They'll add 7.5" to the height of the speakers and increase the foot print 4" in both directions. I'm not 100% decided yet but I think I'll be adding outriggers to the bases to add even more width and ease leveling. My "Man Cave" is in the basement, so the speakers are on a thin carpet, on 40 year old vinyl tile, on a concrete slab, so I don't have to worry about transmitting sound through the floor. My main motivation is to add stability to the speaker and raise the height of the drivers to get the sound stage up off the floor. I currently have each speaker on 2 concrete blocks from Home Depot, less than $5 invested ;~) They work well at getting the speakers higher, and increasing the size of the sound stage, but don't add to the stability...  I think additional stability will help the sound stage even more, by helping more of the energy of the woofer excite the air and not the speaker. Chris M, the store mentioned earlier, that sells the Gallos and all the used high-end gear, isn't that far from me, we could take a visit there too. You should also take a look here... http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?board=62.0 I found these guys a couple of weeks ago. They seem like a good group of like minded individuals, and I plan on attending a gathering in Queens at the end of this month. One of the guys who lives near me, is going to bring a tube amp to my place this afternoon so we can listen to the Solos w/ tubes! |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1727 Registered: May-06 | Thanks for the reply Barry. Sounds like a well thought out approach. I look forward to your impressions once you have the stands in place and have listened to them a bit. FWIW, Gallo Acoustics would probably be interested too. |
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New member Username: Barry_njGSP Exit 165, New Jersey Post Number: 3 Registered: Jan-09 | Gallo is already addressing the speakers stability. Have you seen these? http://www.soundstage2.com/lasvegas2009/sd07.html The stands on the 3.5 are significantly wider than the stands on the 3.1. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1728 Registered: May-06 | Thanks for the links. The speaker placement in the second link makes no sense (to me at least). P.S. Makes me glad I already have my Gallo Ref 3's.  |
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New member Username: Barry_njGSP Exit 165, New Jersey Post Number: 4 Registered: Jan-09 | Well it's their room at CES, and system set-up is rarely ideal at those things. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13303 Registered: May-04 | . I noticed the hanging wall treatment to the left of Gallo in the Soundstage link. |
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New member Username: Barry_njGSP Exit 165, New Jersey Post Number: 5 Registered: Jan-09 | LOL  |
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New member Username: Barry_njGSP Exit 165, New Jersey Post Number: 6 Registered: Jan-09 | Hmmm... Anyone have thoughts on using style #2, part# 6460K41, on 1224,1225&WRQuickLinks=Ball%20Transfers&ScreenWidth=1280&McMMa inWidth=1070&ToolsetID=ToolMultiPageNav&ToolsetAct=&sesnextrep=420968679954951,this page instead of spikes? Maybe just while trying to figure out best placement(?) |
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