2 channel music system.
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 47 Registered: May-08 | I am just doing some research on two channel systems, specifically speakers. I want some tower speakers one day. Prob $1000+. I love a huge array of music. Hard to narrow down to just string music, or jazz or something. It's all over the place. What are some of the best value speakers? I am not really looking to blow my load on the system. One thing I really love in music is a nice thick bass drum sound. Speakers that work well with a lot of drum work. I love hearing nice clear sax, flute, etc. The bass drum bit may be more of a sub thing to look at, but i imagine speakers still play a part in it. Love hearing a guitar solo from Buckethead, Clapton, or Jimi rip out of the speakers as well. I do kind of like the klipsch sound (i have the small Klipsch rf10) for the detail it gives, but it gives me headaches. I like to listen to music pretty loud too (which may be hard to find a speaker that won't give me a headache lol). The system would be for movies/tv a bit but it's more of an afterthought for me. 90% music. I have a lot of instrumental music as well (post rock, dj beats, etc). I have a paradigm dsp 3100 that works pretty well for me. Fairly well rounded device that can give me a decent amount of thump, but still give a nice sound for an upright bass or something (relative to its price lol). I've thought about bookshelves, but I just love the look and sound of floors. I know listening will be a big part, but I am not that close to the buying stage. I am just looking for some suggestions based on my likes (if they are even helpful :S). I'm not sure that i'm really looking for a warm/neutral speaker. I do really like to have the music kick my a.ss sometimes (especially some nice thick double bass viking metal lol). |
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Silver Member Username: AfjGaboroneBotswana Post Number: 140 Registered: Jan-08 | am sure you'll get a lot of yays on the monitor audio rs6. neutral, clean, powerful, musical throughout the range |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3085 Registered: May-05 | I have no idea what your budget, room, amp power, source, etc. is like, so I'm just throwing out a blind recommendation - Revel Concerta F12. Kick you stomach type bass that's controlled, deep, and tight. A bit warm and smooth, but not overly so, especially considering its bass output. About $1500. If I had space for and needed towers, they'd be very high up on my list. They're physically and sonically a very big speaker that needs some breathing room. http://www.revelspeakers.com/products/product.asp?product=19 |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 48 Registered: May-08 | PErfect. THe room is about 10 by 20 feet. Budget 1000+ but prob not over 2 or 3 grand. Source would likely be a computer/dac. Amp power would prob be bought to match speakers. Also, those are some nice looking speakers. These are exactly the kind of recc. I am looking for. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 197 Registered: Aug-04 | I would suggest you audition the Jamo C607 floorstanders, along with what other's have suggested, here. http://www.jamo.com/Default.aspx?ID=6302&M=Shop&PID=18208&ProductID=17931 You may end up saving yourself quite a bit of money. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1680 Registered: Feb-07 | I'm with Francis. MA RS6, they put out a sound much, much larger than their actual size. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1681 Registered: Feb-07 | What are you gonna be using for amplification? |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 49 Registered: May-08 | No clue. It's all in theory at the moment. I'd just find something to match to the speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3301 Registered: Sep-04 | Kirk, I love the enthusiasm and hope you get what you're looking for. In the meantime here are a few observations for you... From what you've written, it sounds like you like your rock. I should point out that rock doesn't actually contain that much really deep bass. Even double basses aren't that big on anything below 50hz. DJ music can have deeper bass right down to the high teens but that's unusual. Most of that is down into the 40s. Most speakers are capable of reproducing a fair amount of that, especially if you're talking above the $1000 price bracket when even quite small speakers will surprise you with their performance in that regard. Real rock and metal (AC/DC, Led Zep, Metallica, Pink Floyd, Genesis, Iron Maiden etc) are into high energy slam and attack (hence the aggression). What you need for that is a system which copes well with transient impulse energy. This is often called a 'fast' system since it seems to start and stop on a dime. Some people find this kind of system unnerving since it often has little of the warmth and pleasant sound that makes all music sound nice. It's quite capable of not sounding nice, and that's the point to a lot of the stuff you mention (e.g. Hendrix). Others find fault in such systems by saying they're 'too engaging' or 'you can't switch off to them'. Well, in that case you shouldn't be playing Hendrix is all I'll say! Play the appropriate relaxing music for relaxation...  Now, on the subject of dealers, you'll never believe it but they're human too. They have their own preferences, prejudices and foibles, just like anyone. This means that different dealers choose different brands and kit that suits their local area's clientele, competitive advantage and their personal preferences for music reproduction. What you need to do is identify dealers with interesting different viewpoints and listen to their results. Then choose the presentation that works for you. There are quite a few and they're usually immediately impressive, but don't discount the ones that don't impress immediately - it could be they're just a bit better balanced or more akin to what you have already. Always go back to them if you can to verify what you're hearing, and to take stock of whether the differences you're hearing are actually that nice or even whether on long term listening they'd become tiring or wearing. Far better then to say to a dealer, "I'm interested in buying a system over the next year or so. I had thought of buying components in the $1000 price bracket but don't know where to start. Can you put together a couple of alternative systems in that price range?" A good dealer will quiz you on the music you play and try to build a system for your tastes. Book demos with more than one dealer and listen to the alternatives. I'm not suggesting you waste dealers' time, but they know they're in competition. Just make it clear to them where you are in the buying process (at the start) and they'll be cool with that. Good dealers will pull out the stops for you, bad ones will leave you to rot. Fine. Leave them to rot too, even if they have interesting kit. There's loads of kit available to you and all those dealers are vying for your attention. (Incidentally, I work at a dealer in the UK on Saturdays so this is why I'm giving you some of this info.) Dealers usually like to know where they stand with customers and this helps you ultimately. A demo typically takes an hour or so unless it's a big demo or the dealer is having a quiet day. In an hour you should get a pretty good taste of the options you've been presented. Take some discs which are familiar to you and maybe some that you don't play so much. You can't take too many discs. You'll only play 3 or 4 but if you don't have the one you fancy playing at the time, it doesn't help so take a selection - 12 maximum I suggest. Try to enjoy yourself. This is meant to be a fun endeavour. Most importantly try to relax in your demos. You're not being tested nor are you testing anything. You're just listening to music. If you approach each piece as a test, you begin to listen with your mind and apply all the analytical processes that we humans are so good at to what is meant to be an emotional process. Yes, you'll pick up that the bass guitar sounds more real or that you can sense the sound of the skins being struck on the drums, but try not to focus on that. Afer all, if the drum beats come in late (a slow system) then they might sound fabulous but they don't drive the track along as they should and you disengage. There are good ways and bad ways to build systems. The way you seem to be contemplating is one of the worse ways. Placing your faith in finding 'something to match' is like saying you'll buy the tyres and then fit the car. It can be done but it's, with respect, shortsighted. You're in an excellent position actually, since you intend to buy a complete system (in the long term) and therefore you can go in to dealers completely open-eared. You don't need to focus your attention on one aspect of your next system, you can listen to matched systems as a whole and you can evaluate the whole rather than the parts. After all, that other item you buy may match the speakers, but it may not be the best at what you're interested in, but once you start down a path, it's difficult to choose another one. You're at the start. Listen to matched systems put together by people who have been doing this for some time, and you'll be able to capitalise on their experience. Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2110 Registered: Oct-04 | Well put Frank. In addition to the very worthy Monitor Audio RS6, I'd like to suggest the Infinity Classia C336 (which can be had for about $1000 from www.theaudiovideosource.com) and the AV123 X-Statik to the list of possibilities. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11062 Registered: Dec-04 | A great post for Kirk and anyone else as well, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1504 Registered: May-06 | Frank, Thanks for the post. Many will benefit from it. Somewhat contradictory, however when I put something new in my kit I become an analytical freak. I listen for everything, pace, imaging, timing, soundstage, upper extension, bass quickness, and vocal realism. Drives me nuts going through the process. Then when I have it dialed in and I decide it's all good, I let it all go and just enjoy the music. In fact I just went through a minor episode of that tonight when I put in some Linn RCA's I just picked up to see if what I get from my LP12 can be extended or supplement what I get from my Saturn. Of course I turned it all off after about an hour and left them to cook for a couple days. So far my DIY's can hold them off, but we'll see. FWIW I have discovered presence (my friend Allyse helped me realize that is what I am now experiencing) with my Benz Micro Glider S cartridge. It is getting better by the day. Sweet! |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 51 Registered: May-08 | With 2 channel systems do you need to get into a sub? Say for the Revel's mentioned here. I have a Paradigm DSP 3100 sub that I really like. Would it pull down the Revel's with poor bass? I'm not really too knowledgeable on the combination and meshing of speakers. Once again I am pretty far from this upgrade, but I am just interested. I won't be listening to anything anytime soon. My original system was purchased with the help of a guy at the local shop here in town. I did some listening to different things but it was really dependent on my limited budget then. Paradigm Monitor 7's were a bit too much at the time. I am just trying to figure out matching to my tastes, processes i'd go through for looking at speakers. The bit Frank mentioned about a fast system was really interesting for me. Having my musical tastes translated to matching stereo characteristics is intriguing. |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 52 Registered: May-08 | Also, the mention of my horrible way of building a system isn't really relevant at this point because it's all just speculation. I know i'd have to match everything first. I'd probably buy the whole system at once, ideally. I was just looking to gain some more knowledge about my likes and how they'd translate to what i'm hearing on different kinds of speakers. I don't have anywhere near the amount of $$$ required to buy anything now, or any time soon. I was just interested in the future. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 378 Registered: Jul-07 | The sub question is a difficult one to answer. "Need" is really a personal thing. I have bookshelf speakers that dig sufficiently into the lower ranges that I have no desire to screw with it. I've had a sub in my setup before and never stopped trying to get it placed and dialed in correctly....and never did. However, the right sub, integrated properly I'm told can be a wonderful thing, especially if your tastes and listening habits demand bass on a scale difficult to attain by most affordable speakers. There are some folks here with a lot of experience in this area so I'm sure you'll get some other thoughts. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2138 Registered: Oct-04 | Very well stated Chris H. Sub placement can be tricky; I have found that the best placement in my room is also the most impractical, that being front & center. I might add that if you plan on watching the occasional action/sci-fi flick through this theoretical 2-ch. system, a good sub will usually greatly enhance the "theater effect". |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1713 Registered: Feb-07 | I have my sub in my 2 channel exactly where Christopher recommends - front and center. As for whether you actually "need" a sub, like Chris H. said, it's a personal decision. Some people feel that a sub "muddies" the sound (as I'm sure some crap subs do). Others really like to feel the music, not just hear it. For me personally I find the kind of music I listen to really benefits from that extra extension into the low end. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 381 Registered: Jul-07 | Not to change the subject, but, Exerciseguy, have you posted your experience with the T amp and the Tekton speakers ? If you have can you link me to it. If not, can you post it sometime ? Love to hear your impressions of that combination. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2139 Registered: Oct-04 | Chris H, I'm sorry to say that I've spent so little time with the set-up, it's spent most of the time in the closet, but what I can tell you is that the two pair together VERY nicely. The Trends, though only rated at 15-WPC, provided amply power to crank the 91db Tektons to loud, but sane, listening levels in my smallish room. Instrument separation, space, dynamics, even warmth, is all very fulfilling. This is also my first real experience with a good pair of SDFR speakers, and the Tektons did not disappoint; there's a cohesiveness to the sound that must be experienced to be believed. Now consider, I've only put a few hours on the Tektons, the Fostex drivers they employ are notorious for taking some time to "break-in" so I imagine they might evolve over time, hopefully for the better. I'm looking forward to the day when I can get to give the Tektons a proper home, they are keepers; the Trends on the other hand, while exceptional and staggeringly good given it's size, is just not practical for they way I generally listen, it's really best suited for a workstation/desktop set-up IMHO. The Trends is also not the bargain that the original $30 Sonic Impact T-Amp is, the Trends is hard to find for less than $150 (I paid less than $100), has one set of inputs, and no remote. By contrast, I paid $150 for my HK3485 which is 120WPC, has inputs out the wazoo, an AM/FM tuner, and while flimsy, a remote. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3089 Registered: May-05 | Kirk, If you were to get the Revel F12s, a sub would most likely not be needed. I heard it in a room a little bigger than what I'd call average, and it wasn't close to lacking anything in the bass department. Everyone's bass needs are different, but I'd be pretty shocked if anyone needed a sub with those for music. If you listen to pipe organ music and want that last degree of depth, then maybe. As Frank said earlier, rock music may be bass heavy, but its bass doesn't go too deep. The Revels pulled off Zeppelin, Floyd, Sabbath, and Tool bass without any problems what so ever IMO. I also believe you should listen to complete systems for the same reasons Frank mentions. Even if you don't buy everything at once, you'll know what the final outcome will be. As crazy as this sounds, you may find that you can get sufficient bass from a bookshelf/monitor speaker. I used to be all about towers until I heard a few very good monitors. My Audio Physic Yaras shock everyone with their bass. Everyone looks for a subwoofer when they first hear it. They may may not have the depth for special effect movie bass and pipe organ bass, but that's not my priority. |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 53 Registered: May-08 | Awesome posts folks. One thing that is coming up is the movie bass, which is probably the main attribute for me with movies. I love a nice deep explosion or something similar. I don't watch a ton of movies, but I can live with 2 channel sound with them. THe sub would just kick it up that extra notch for me. The Revels do seem intriguing. I really like the look of floors. I do listen to a fair amount of rap too. Once again I don't know if that goes down any deeper, but once again it's a different sort of bass i'd think. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2140 Registered: Oct-04 | I've got to listen to those Revels. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3092 Registered: May-05 | Lyric Hifi in White Plains has them on the floor. I can't stand that guy. Lyric Hifi in Manhattan probably has them too. That guy is a let better to deal with. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2141 Registered: Oct-04 | I'm going to get over to the one in NYC and see if they have them out on the floor. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11091 Registered: Dec-04 | Over the bridge, Chris. |
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Bronze Member Username: KbearPost Number: 80 Registered: Dec-06 | If you want deep bass without a sub I'd try to hear some PMC towers. They are expensive ($3K or so for the cheapest model) but you never know - you may be able to get a pair for a good deal for whatever reason. A lot of audio gear gets discounted when it's a demo or used set, or maybe just a discontinued model. I heard PMC bookshelf speakers and they were very impressive, lots of weight behind the music. Anyways, don't limit yourself. Listen to as many things as you can. It's only after you listen to some systems that you start to realize what you like and don't like, and then you can narrow it down from there. And even if I say PMC and someone else says Revel and someone else says Monitor Audio (all excellent brands btw), maybe you'll find a pair of speakers by another brand that no one here considered, and usually retails for $3K and is now $1,800 and is just too good to pass up. You'd never find them unless you look around. So I'd say getting opinions is definitely a good exercise, but don't let it limit how many places you visit. I'd visit all the audio stores within a reasonable driving distance, then narrow it down to two or three when it comes time to make a choice. |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 67 Registered: May-08 | As another little step, I was in a town a couple hours away and found myself with some spare time. I dropped in to a place i'd read about (Soundstage Fine Audio). They had Vandersteen, totem, reference 3A, and various used speakers and systems. The setup the guy sat me down at was Ayre (Sp wrong prob lol) with Martin Logan Summits (he said it's the new model or something). Jesus lol. It was amazing. I've only owned the Klipsch RF10 with the poorly matched Yamaha Rxv459. Hearing some upper end stuff was amazing. He also had me listen to cambridge audio azur a with some totem arros. The sound was pretty interesting as well. Such a tiny floor speaker. |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 68 Registered: May-08 | Also, Those ML Summit's were beautiful lol. I'd seen pics online of the electrostatic speakers, but these were a nice rosenut or cherry finish or something, with the rest black. It was the perfect look for me lol. I love the deep reddish color as a finish. But wow, those panels looked extremely nice. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3559 Registered: Sep-04 | Kirk I'm sorry if I came across as all totalitarian on you. I was just concerned that you were focussing on just one aspect of the system, that's all. Seems you're not. Popping in to a dealer's like that is a very relaxed way of scoping them out without pressure. Of course, the Summits cost more than your entire prospective system... Totem eh? Damn good brand (I use them at home). |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 69 Registered: May-08 | What totems and what kind of music do you listen to on them? The owner just had a bunch of female vocal stuff (Feist etc), which sounded amazing. He mentioned the excellent midrange a lot, which i'm assuming is where female vocals shine? My problem is it's not easy to narrow down what I listen to. Sometimes it might be some acoustic music, other times it might be balls to the wall rock music. Other times it could be some bass heavy hip hop or electronic. The Klipsch RF10 I have do a decent job with the rock music and with the Paradigm sub the electronic and hip hop is alright, but the soundstage, imaging and all that other good stuff seems lacking (recently compared them to studio 20's). I found the imaging of the 20's pretty good, but the sound seemed so relaxed (probably underdriven, but still). |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 72 Registered: May-08 | Another little addition. I keep reading that the Totem arro, staff, and hawk aren't great for cranking rock/electronic/etc. It probably isn't as big of a deal as you go up from arros. I am just worried I won't get a nice punchy kick (like the Klipsch, but without listening fatigue lol). Am I going down the wrong line with the Totems. Are they really aimed at a jazz/classical/acoustic listening crowd? |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 199 Registered: Dec-07 | Kirk, the Arros are not going to fill a room with a "punchy kick" as you say, and they do not play loud. In a small room, with the right electronics, they are hard to beat, imo. The Sttafs will fill a larger room with a full sound at a good volume. As you move up the line bottom end definitely deepens. I have the Sttafs on the short wall in a 15' x 25' room, and they perform very nicely. Bottom end is not picture rattling but it is definitely a full sound. A friend of mine has the Forests, they are a wonderful speaker with a lot of bottom end. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2163 Registered: Feb-07 | "Are they really aimed at a jazz/classical/acoustic listening crowd?" I am so not a jazz/classical/acoustic guy and I love my Sttafs. I listen to mostly metal, punk and industrial/electronic music. The Sttafs suit me just fine. |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 73 Registered: May-08 | Do you use them without a sub? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2165 Registered: Feb-07 | They would probably be fine without a sub, but I'm a bit of a bass freak, so I do use one. I have it dialed way down, though. Just enough to fill in without overtaking the music. |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 74 Registered: May-08 | Yeah that's kind of what i'm debating. I have a Paradigm DSP3100 but I dunno if it will work with higher end speakers. It wasn't a cheap sub or anything, so it prob would I suppose. |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 200 Registered: Dec-07 | I have a Paradigm PS1000 sub but don't use it with my Sttafs. I use to, but I like the sound better with out it. |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 75 Registered: May-08 | It's tough to find the right balance for the rock/heavy metal/electronic, with jazz/classical/acoustic etc. I don't know the terms really so it's kind of hard to describe. Frank had some great points concerning rock music and the frequency range. I still just love to really feel some of the hip hip/rock etc. It's a tough call. 2 channel vs 2.1. Finding the right receiver or pre/pro or int receiver. That doesn't even get into soundstage and all of those other terms. The only real long term listening i've had is these Klipsch RF 10 lol. The fact that I like to listen to the music at pretty loud volumes looks like it will be a problem for some mid range int. amps from some of the reading i've been doing. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11731 Registered: Dec-04 | A midrange amp is fine with speakers that can do what you want. |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 77 Registered: May-08 | When do you jump into the next category of amps? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2256 Registered: Feb-07 | As soon as possible... |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 78 Registered: May-08 | lol. I meant what makes people go from midrange to a higher priced amp. What would be lacking in, say, a nice set of speakers with a mid priced amp. I understand the idea of upgrading when you dislike some sound, but can anyone describe this a bit more. I imagine a lot of people upgrade for the sake of a "hobby". I'm interested in it as well, but i'd rather not see myself upgrading every year. Also, what can of changes can you begin to hear in the different echelons of prices for speakers/amps? |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 203 Registered: Dec-07 | Kirk, I have a low to mid priced set up; Rega Apollo cdp, Rega Mira 3 amp, Totem Sttaf speakers. For me this is a very musical rig that I can live with for some time. Would I like a more full range sound, yes. Would I like a larger sound stage with greater imaging, yes. Greater transparency with more air around instruments would be nice too. All these things and more, you will find with higher end equipment, assuming you have synergy with in the system. The only way to know what you can live with is to go out and listen to mid vs high end systems. At some point the law of diminishing returns will come into play. |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 79 Registered: May-08 | What kind of music do you listen to on the sttaf's? Does the arro give you any of those things you mentioned? I am becoming more and more interested in the Totem line of speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 204 Registered: Dec-07 | I listen to blues, rock, classical and some of my wife's dance. I haven't listened to the Arro in a long time, but they are a very nice speaker, just don't have the bottom end I like. I once listened to the Arro right up to the Forest at an audition, and the arro was the most impressive. In a small room that speaker is world class. Imo, the perfect floor standing Totem would sound like the Arro with the bottom end of the Forest. I think Totem's are a great speaker for the price. You can do better, but it will cost you a lot more. Although, if you buck up for the Mani 2, you might be hard pressed to do better regardless of price. Totems also like good electronics. The easiest floor stander to drive is the Sttaf. The Arro is a much more difficult, as is the Hawk and Forest. The Better the electronics the better they will perform. A friend of mine drives Forest's with a Simaudio i7 amp with very very nice results. Now that set up I could live with for a very long time. |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 80 Registered: May-08 | Yeah that's kind of what my problem is. I really do want some floorstanders at some point. It's just trying to find a nice speaker with all of the "choice words" (imaging etc), that can also dig deep enough. I have a Paradigm DSP3100 10 inch sub which I quite like. The rooms I use are typically fairly large though. Arros with the para sub and a nice int amp is probably a nice system, but i don't know if it will handle how loud i'd like the music sometimes. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11736 Registered: Dec-04 | Kirk, if you want the volume available without the added cost of electronics, then you need to look at more sensitive speakers, like something above 90 db. In many cases, the CLS series fom Cerwin Vega have been reviewed rather well. The Totem lineup does not have a very sensitive model, and forget the Mani2's altogether for the purposes of your thread. |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 205 Registered: Dec-07 | Kirk, Klipsch & Kef speakers are easy to drive and are not that $. Here are the links. http://www.klipsch.com/products/lists/floorstanding.aspx?viewall=true http://www2.kef.com/CA/loudspeakers/q-series Nuck, how do you like the Mani 2's? |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 81 Registered: May-08 | I like Klipsch, but i'm pretty worried about them selling in Future shop. They seem to be dropping out of local hi-fi shops now, because I suppose it's hard to compete price wise for them now. Those Kef speakers are beautiful lol. Does anyone know much about Reference speakers? The one shop in Waterloo had some. The guy in the shop there liked the idea of locally (Canadian) built speakers. I sort of tend to agree with him. I live in the same town as the Bryston factory (which could be nice one day lol). I am just trying to gather some information before the weeks/months/years of listening before I jump into the next stage of my system. I am trying to figure out what exactly it is I want from a speaker. This thread is really helping so far. |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 206 Registered: Dec-07 | If you can audition Focus Audio in your area, give them a try. Focus is a Canadian company that produce, what look to be, a very nice speaker. Have a look at SPB as well. Good luck. Let us know how you make out. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11741 Registered: Dec-04 | Kirk, if you happen by Brantford, you can try the PSB speakers that I am unloading, but floorstanders, and a sub. Cheap. Unabashed self-advertising. |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 82 Registered: May-08 | I don't have any money at the moment lol. What do you like/not like about the psb speakers? |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 207 Registered: Dec-07 | Yeah, PSB, thats what I tried to say. Kirk, PSB's are great speakers but when you have Mani 2's not much else will compare. Nuck, how are you getting along with the Mani 2 in the system? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2428 Registered: Oct-04 | "...but when you have Mani 2's not much else will compare." If there was going to be a fight, this would be my first choice to go against the mighty Mani-2. http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/monitoraudio_platinum_pl100.htm Good fight, aye? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2261 Registered: Feb-07 | For sure Chris. I heard these once at my dealer's driven by a 4B SST. They were pretty awesome. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11742 Registered: Dec-04 | The PSB's are fine, and mate well with the Velo DPS!@ sub thet I have, it was just time to move up the scale to match the rest of the kit. I used them and abused them for 13 years. I wont hijack Kirk's thread, guys, suffice to say that the 28Hz down low is very apparant, and they don't play really really loud. |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 208 Registered: Dec-07 | From that read they do seem nice, but the Mani 2's bottom end extends to 29Hz vs the Pl100's 42Hz. The Mani 2 is almost a full range speaker, where as the Pl100 does not even come close. I heard a few Monitor Audio speakers and really liked them, so I'm sure the PL100 would be very nice. |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 83 Registered: May-08 | Don't worry about derailing anything. As long as folks are discussing different speakers, why they were upgrading, etc. It's all helpful for me. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2429 Registered: Oct-04 | "From that read they do seem nice, but the Mani 2's bottom end extends to 29Hz vs the Pl100's 42Hz. The Mani 2 is almost a full range speaker, where as the Pl100 does not even come close." I'm betting what the PL100 lacks in low-end extension, it makes up for in other areas; that being said, I WANT A PAIR OF MANI TOO! |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2262 Registered: Feb-07 | 29 Hz? Man, that's like digging down to subwoofer freqs. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1813 Registered: May-06 | I'll see that 29Hz and raise 22Hz. Yeah, I'm cheating a bit since I need the Gallo Sub-Amp on the 2nd coil to dip down there. I've not heard the Mani's (yet). |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2430 Registered: Oct-04 | I still haven't heard those damn Gallos! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11750 Registered: Dec-04 | Hey Kirk... http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/120171-psb_800_floorstanders/ |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 84 Registered: May-08 | So many totem reviews say the speakers are perfect for music. Is that because they add something to the sound? I've heard they aren't exactly a neutral presentation. Also, is driving arros with that Cambridge int. amp not enough amp power? The guy in the Soundstage store had the arro with the cambridge....640 i think. He had a rega amp there too. I was reading something Frank said about the arros filling a room if the amp is good enough. Would anyone guess what the minimum would be? I am pretty much decided on an integrated amp just for my purposes. I have a receiver now, but i don't use any of the video connections lol. |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 210 Registered: Dec-07 | Maybe not quite neutral but very musical and lively with some warmth. They all have a very good soundstage and imaging as well. But each Totem has a different sound or voice if you will, so listen to a few to see what you like. As far as amps go I would stay away from cambridge, not my favorite. The 840 is pretty good though. I have a Rega Mira 3 with the Sttafs and it's a nice amp. I would go Rega as a minimum. Totem speakers like quality power. Naim, Creek, Simaudio, Bryston, and Exposure would be ones to audition. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3592 Registered: Sep-04 | Kirk, I regularly fill a 7.5m x 5.5m room with sound by powering a pair of Arros with a Naim Nait5i-2. Now that's not a particularly cheap amp, but it's not a particularly powerful one either. It's the way it delivers the power that counts. Things which are renowned for a 'fast' or rhythmic sound are more likely to be successful with Arros. I agree that no Totem is particularly neutral. They each have their own character. That said, the very few truly neutral speakers I've heard have usually thrown the baby out with the bathwater becoming clinically accurate and leaving out any emotional engagement. In the choice between the two I'll take the engaging characterful sound every day of the week. |
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Bronze Member Username: I_am_kirkPost Number: 86 Registered: May-08 | Do you mean amps renowned for fast or rhythmic sound? Do you have any other examples of good powered int. amps? I got Steve's list there, but what kind of costs do these sorts of amps normally go for? Is there a certain price floor that I should try and stay above to get the proper sort of amp? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11778 Registered: Dec-04 | Kirk, generally there IS a lower value floor to look into, but you have to go out and listen to find it. You also have to decide what value means to you, and how the music can move you...then decide what it is worth. you might also look into bryston's budget entries, IA and cdp. |
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Silver Member Username: SmwickB.C Canada Post Number: 213 Registered: Dec-07 | Kirk, What brands are available in your area? Have you checked out canuckaudiomart.com? The brands I listed are all very good, some affordable and some expensive. Another I could recommend would be Arcam. That should be enough for you to go out and listen to. On canuckaudiomart and audiogon you can get some really good deals on amps under $1000. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3594 Registered: Sep-04 | Indeed, Kirk, amplifiers which exhibit speed and rhythm as their primary strengths such as those mentioned above are the ones to look at. |
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