I had my Arro's always toe-in quite a bit. (Check out the picture) Just recently I have placed them straight. The are in corners about 10 feet apart, about 6 inches from walls. I think I like them better in this straight position! Frank I know you have mentioned this once - I did not listen but now I like it. I may even play with mass loading again.
That's awfully close to the side wall. You might find it works better a little further away if possible.
Glad to be of help by the way! Incidentally, I said start from straight ahead and then just toe in ever so slightly if the image is vague. If it's not vague leave them straight.
Also, if possible, place the Beak on the front outside corner of each Arro. It was designed to work this way best.
OK, Pablo, you got me confused again. You don't show the speaker toed-in so I assume you are just showing us a "before" picture.
Why do you like them in their current position? Ten feet between speakers is quite a distance in most set ups. Have you tried setting the speakers up according to a real plan or did you just place them where they fit in the room?
There are a few advantages and many very strong disadvantages to the placement you show in your photo. I suspect there is virtually no staging outside the boundaries of the speakers, center fill can be a real problem for most speakers at such a distance apart, the early reflections I can guess at would be destructive to three dimensional imaging and contribute to substantial comb filtering throughout the frequency range of the speakers to name just a few potential downsides to your inidcated placement.
Don't take the above comments to be negative but just as a recommendation to consider what you have available to you and whether another shift in speaker placement might provide further improvements in sound quality. One of the few upsides to your placement would be an increase in midbass loudness due to the proximity of all three boundaries within the room; floor, side and behind the speaker wall. Depending upon your room dimensions this is typically a boost that exists within a restricted region of the midbass response and can result in a rather exciting sound if the music you listen to is heavily weighted in that range. It can also result in a muddy bass that lacks detail and pitch rendition plus a lack of clarity through the lower midrange where many vocals exist.
If you haven't set the speakers up according to a plan, why not try one and listen for any benefits that might accrue from such a move?
Sorry for confusion. This is old picture when they were toed-in, and much closer to the walls, and my wife just did dusting so she moved the beak. The Beaks are on front out corners. Speakers are now about 6 inches from back and side walls and straight(paralel to side wall). I will make another photo when I get home. The reason for corner placing and so far apart is protection. I have 6 years old boy and as we know things happen. Just a week ago my friend's 8 yeard old son playing, of cause by accident made a dent in 3 months old totem WIND! On top of it to hide the damage so both speakers appear the same he made similar dent in the other. If not a good suction of Mielle vaccumm my friend would have a heard attack. later on I will provide recent shot and room dimentions. Also there are biamped with totem tress, and running on Arcam Avr350 and squeezebox as a source.
Quick update on room dimentions: 3.6m X 7m (living room part, kitchen bit more narrow and then entry, stairs ...)Arro's are on short side just 3 m apart 25 cm from side wall 20 cm from back wall. There are palm trees (thin ones) on sides, and side table in front of left one. Like I mentioned I had to hide them a bit.
yes I did but i am limited here by room lay out /furniture /my 6 year old son. This is really the best and safest place I can have them. I had them before on both sides of the couch but I find this is better. 80% is the bacground listening and when I really want to listen I use the chair that is in the middle between arro's and about 3 meters so it is fairly good listening position. The theory is nice if you can have one separate room designated but I have to make the best from what you can see. Puting Arro's straight I think did improve, I will play with sand loading maybe again to see.
Glad to see you have the Arro's placement resolved. By the way I really love those speakers. I almost bought them a couple of years ago when I bought the Sttaf's. I think they out perform the Sttaf's on many levels but I needed a speaker that would fill a larger room. How do you find the addition of the beaks with the Arro's?
Well I got beaks for free so.... I did not really sit down with closed eyes and had someone remove and put them back ... It is hard to tell , I think if you would have acoustically perfect room maybe then one could hear the difference. If you read about them on reviews, some people made measurements and there was a difference, but just to an average listener? I am not sure if it would be obvious. They are not that expensive anyway, they look cool, and auto-suggestion is a powerful thing
On what levels do you believe the Arros outperform the Sttafs? What are using to drive them?
Pablo,
From what I recall Totem recommends to not toe-in their speakers since imaging will be diminished. I've found this with my Sttafs. I have mine facing straight out.
The Arros Imaging and soundstaging are better. Less bass but I think a little tighter. tonally they are more accurate than Sttafs, they just lacks the deep bass and don't go as loud. I drive my Sttaf's with a HK AVR 445, but soon will have a Rega Mira 3 to accompany my Apollo.
Every totem speaker is different and depends what type of music one listens. I took Staffs home around year ago from my dealer and did direct compare(connected both Arro's and Sttafs to A and B), listen the same music on Arro, click the button and right a way on Sttaf. This is in my opinion the only way to really compare speakers, just flip back and forth with out taking time to reconnect..... For me -- Arro's sounded much better then Sttafs. The only time I liked Sttafs better was with hard rock and live like ACDC concert. They were filling the room better. With any other type of music for me Arro's had more detail, were more sharp, right in front, the separation of instruments and all voices, noises on Arro' is incredible. Just listen Pink Floyd beginning on Money and you can hear every single detail, every coin that went into this slot machine. Same goes for jazz, Spanish guitar, classical. Maybe some latest pop music sounded better on Sttafs as well. The piano and flamenco singing in "Lagrimas Negras" of Bebo and Cigala sounds is amazing. It is a matter of taste, and kind of music you listen. And now I put them straight and like them even more. Mass loading next.
I agree with you guys. I auditioned both, and the imaging and soundstage of the Arros is awesome. I opted for the Sttafs, however, because the room the speakers were going into was quite large.
That being said, I love the Sttafs and am 100% satisfied with them. I listen to a lot of metal, and they sound awesome with this style of music. The Arros I found handled "clearer" music better - stuff like acoustic guitar, piano, etc.
If you are concerned that young master Pablo might be interested enough to have a poke at the Arros, you can order grilles for them. they don't sound as good in this situation but they'll sound better than if your boy pushes the tweeter in...
I too love my Sttaf's. I'm sure when the Mira 3 comes they will sound even better. I have to say though the Arro's are one of the most impressive speakers I have ever heard.
I don't mass load the Arros. I like them as they are. However, I can certainly appreciate why you would want to load them up. It'd make them more stable versus the little-Pablo...
Frank - the question is for the sound. I'd like an opinion for Arro's mas loading or not for the sound quality. Like I mentioned they are semi hidden so stability now it is not a concern. Like you've probably noticed on the picture I have installed claws on them as well. So would I gained anything by putting some silica sand in them or rather loose? Totem recommends 10-20 lbs in each cabinet for Arro's and on their web site the state: "* If the "Totem Claws" are installed on the Sttaf and Arro then the mass loading option should definitely be experimented with."
made a dent in 3 months old totem WIND! On top of it to hide the damage so both speakers appear the same he made similar dent in the other. If not a good suction of Mielle vaccumm my friend would have a heard attack. 