KEF vs Wharfedale Bookshelfs
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New member Username: EexospirePost Number: 1 Registered: Oct-08 | I have an Onkyo TX-SR506 to run them on. I want to be able to play them LOUD for music, movies, and parties. (Rock, Electronic, Hip-Hop, Post-Rock, Experimental, Indie) I have a $300 MAX budget for a pair of bookshelfs. I think I have narrowed it down to the KEF iQ3 Wharfedale 9.2 maybe Acculine A1R Which should I lean towards? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10998 Registered: Dec-04 | Lean towards the speaker with the highest sensitivity. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13068 Registered: May-04 | . "Lean towards the speaker with the highest sensitivity." You're using a receiver and you want the stuff to play as LOUD as possible. Go for the speaker with the most consistent impedance curve - no major ups or downs and as high as possible over its range. If that happens to be the speaker with the highest stated electrical sensitivity, that's what you should buy since sound quality is a secondary consideration. With a $300 budget and the desire for LOUD, buy the extended warranty on the speakers. . |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2021 Registered: Jun-07 | You want a loud bookshelf for 300 dollars, that also sounds probably better IMO than both the speakers you just mentioned David, look at the new Paradigm Atoms. |
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New member Username: EexospirePost Number: 2 Registered: Oct-08 | According to this stereophile review of the atom's... "But the Atom probably wouldn't be the ideal speaker for dance or hip-hop for another reason: It's best suited for sane volume levels and small to mid-size rooms. Pair it with a 50Wpc amplifier and put it in a listening room of "normal" size and you'll have the backbone of a truly first-rate hi-fi. And it's not that more power will fry the Atom (indeed, most tweeters are cooked by not enough power), it's simply that the little guy reaches a point of dynamic saturation above which it cannot rise. " I'm leaning towards the KEFs... but what is all the buzz about the Infinity Primus P162's? They have higher sensitivity than the KEF at 90 db and they are about $75 cheaper. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2022 Registered: Jun-07 | The new V6 Atoms are 90db at 8ohms. I have heard them go pretty damn loud. But I guess it all depends on how loud you are thinking. For a 300 dollar bookshelf speaker to go as loud as perhaps I think, you are thinking.lol Then perhaps I would take Jan's advice and get the extended warranty. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11002 Registered: Dec-04 | receiver...bookshelf speakers....loud...warranty... |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 183 Registered: Aug-04 | receiver...bookshelf speakers....loud.......32% hearing loss within the first 6 momths |
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New member Username: EexospirePost Number: 3 Registered: Oct-08 | I doubt that whatever bookshelfs I get will come close to attributing to my hearing loss as much as my car system has.  I think for me, it's between the KEF's and the Infinity Primus P162... which one would you guys pick? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7920 Registered: Feb-05 | The Atom Monitor's.... No really buy the one you like the most...none of us listen like you do that I'm aware of so I'm not sure how we can help. None of the little speakers that you are interested in are going to be ideal for your listening preference...pick 'em. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 230 Registered: Jun-08 | I suggest if you want loud, very loud and durable that you go with something with a horn tweeter like a Klipsh. You can usually find them at the mass market shops so they will be reasonably priced and their backed by a well known solid company. http://www.klipsch.com/products/lists/bookshelf.aspx?viewall=true But - you do the listening and make the choice. I just know that these are known for their loudness, and you could go deaf. Let us know what you pick. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1850 Registered: Jun-05 | The Atom isnt better than either of the speakers he mentioned and they will both play louder with less distortion.I have the Acculine 1R stunning little speaker it has a reworked crossover from the old verson which was a little bright,they play loud to I have them for my new theater system,although i would not buy any budget bookshelf for that reason,if thats what you are looking for look elsewhere for a bigger speaker.A used pair of B&W 602S3 would serve you well but you need plenty of power for them to come alive and they are not small bookshelves. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7922 Registered: Feb-05 | The Atom may not be better but I prefer them to the Infinity and the KEF, just as I prefer the Epos ELS 3 to them but none of them meet David's stated goals in my opinion. The used B&W's are a good suggestion however as you suggested they are not a small speaker and they require plenty of juice. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2026 Registered: Jun-07 | Tawaun- Have you heard the brand new Atoms? Not the old crappy Performance series Atom. The new Monitor series Atom? What were they powered by? Just curious what your thoughts were on them. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1233 Registered: Nov-06 | I own a pair of the IQ3, and they can play plenty loud for me, but dont think that any of the speakers that you are looking at will meet your needs. Also, if you have bright equipment upstream (your onkyo), you will hear it plain as day on the KEF. It will sound terrible. I also wouldn't suggest pairing Klipsch with that receiver either. Personally, I think you should be looking at brands such as Cerwin Vega. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1234 Registered: Nov-06 | here are a few suggestions to look into for SPL you want Nexo Geo-T Tangent Array L'Acoustics V-DOSC MeyerSound MILO JBL VerTEC EAW Avalon Clair Brothers Prism McCauley Monarc Community Airforce |
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New member Username: EexospirePost Number: 4 Registered: Oct-08 | I haven't heard of any of those brands... but now I didn't think the KEF was supposed to be a bright sounding speaker, I thought it was neutral? |
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New member Username: EexospirePost Number: 5 Registered: Oct-08 | Also, right now I have the Klipsch ProMedia 4.1 computer speakers using them as a 2.1 system. These certainly get loud enough for me, would the KEF's not be able to get as loud as these? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2082 Registered: Oct-04 | David, I'm sorry, I don't think any of the aforementioned speakers, other than perhaps the Klipsch, are a good match for what you want; the only speakers that I would recommend that meets your requirements, IMHO, are the Cerwin-Vega! CLS-6. They play very LOUD (!), actually sound great, are solidly built, and are ruggedly handsome. These are your speakers. http://www.amazon.com/Cerwin-Vega-Cls-6-6-5-Inch-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B0009Y8PHM |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2028 Registered: Jun-07 | "Also, right now I have the Klipsch ProMedia 4.1 computer speakers using them as a 2.1 system. These certainly get loud enough for me, would the KEF's not be able to get as loud as these?" Chris- your telling me none of the above speakers can go as loud as David's computer speakers?lol I think they could easily go as loud. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2083 Registered: Oct-04 | You know I was responding to the OP. My cell phone might play as loud as those computer speakers, but like my cell phone, I'm almost certain the sound is something like a cross between a hair dryer and a cat in heat. Seriously, I've heard a handfull of decent computer speakers in my day, the Harman Kardon Soundsticks II come to mind, and I had a 2.1 set-up from Altec-Lansing that was better than decent, but if I ever need a pair of computer speakers again, I'll go with a nice pair of powered studio monitors. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2030 Registered: Jun-07 | Chris- I totally mis-read your post I think. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 232 Registered: Jun-08 | I'd go with Chris M. suggestion on the Cerwin or these Klipsch bookshelves that can be had below your budget and will be even louder than the CV's at 93.5db SPL efficiency. http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Synergy-Bookshelf-Loudspeakers-Black/dp/B000MZE68A Opinions seem to be that these are bright but if you like earpiercing highs than these may be for you. WARNING: The Surgeon General warns that prolonged listening to Klipsch bookshelves may cause loss of hearing, convulsions, diarrhea, and bleeding from all orifaces. Cheers! |
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New member Username: EexospirePost Number: 6 Registered: Oct-08 | I would also like to know how my Klipsch computer speakers would sound louder than some of the other said bookshelfs. They only weigh 2.1 lbs each, only have a 3" Fiber-composite cone for midrange, and are only 60 watts each (not sure if this is rms or max) |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2084 Registered: Oct-04 | Sorry Nick, I was referring to George's post recommending something with a horn, like a Klipsch, not the latter Klipsch 4.1 computer speakers. |
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New member Username: EexospirePost Number: 7 Registered: Oct-08 | I also want to say that I am NOT looking for a bright speaker, I want the most neutral sounding speaker possible. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2085 Registered: Oct-04 | That's a good deal on those B-3s. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 233 Registered: Jun-08 | Though you may perceive them as louder, I highly doubt the are from a true dB perspective. Your computer speakers will focus their volume on a narrower band i.e. they won't go as low and has high as a true full range monitor. They also most likely compress the sound wave and add a whole bunch of distortion in the form of resonnance. This all gives the impression of loudness and will leave your ears buzzing but that's not good sound. In fact, truly clear sound at high dB's will often not be perceived as painfull or loud. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2086 Registered: Oct-04 | OK, under $300, plays LOUD, and movies & parties = C-V! or Klipsch. At first it sounded like you wanted something akin to a DJ speaker, but it now sounds like you're evolving, and that's good, so I'm going to go to my default recommendation, i.e. The Infinity Beta 20. The 20s routinely sell at auction for less than $75 each here http://stores.ebay.com/Harman-Audio_Infinity_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ10225969QQft idZ2QQtZkm . |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2087 Registered: Oct-04 | I wouldn't describe the C-V! CLS-6 as bright at all, I like them (I actually owned a pair for a short while), and I've said this before, if I was building out an HT-only/basement-theater sort of thing, I would look no further than the C-V! CLS Series. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1235 Registered: Nov-06 | David those were all pro sound reinforcement speakers either used in dance clubs (EAW Avalon) or in arena concert settings that I mentioned above. In other words, the speakers you are looking into won't meet your needs. And i don't think the KEF are bright speakers, I think your gear is. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 184 Registered: Aug-04 | At your price point of $300.00, I can't help but suggest that you may want to give the Jamo C603 bookshelves a try. They can play relatively loud and retain composure. But I'm not sure what your definition of loud is. You may desire a volume level I've never tried with the C603. A volume level I'm unwilling to attempt. I can tell you they crank music without any strain or distortion, very well. I don't have a sound level meter, but I can tell you that I've turned the volume knob on my Vincent SA-T1 up to 11:00 AM and they sounded very impressive  I'm sure 11:00 AM on my SA-T1's volume knob is quite helpful  |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 234 Registered: Jun-08 | The JAMO's might sound good and with sufficient power they may be able to generate considerable dB; however, they only have an 88dB sensitivity. Therefore, for the same input power they will sound considerably softer than the KEF/C-V/Klipsch that have been recommended. I suggest you start auditioning a few given the list you've been given here. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 185 Registered: Aug-04 | Good point George. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3276 Registered: Sep-04 | Christopher Molloy is on the money. If all the OP wants is loud, then C-V! makes a lot of sense... |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2090 Registered: Oct-04 | Thanks Frank, but I think the OP will get more than just loud with the C-V!, I swear they ain't bad at all, they're really underrated. |
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New member Username: EexospirePost Number: 8 Registered: Oct-08 | My definition of loud is playing as loud as my Klipsch 2.1 setup can play, or louder. This is for movies and TV also, I do about 40% music, 40% movies, and 20% TV. Are all the said speakers, like the C-V, or the speakers Gavin was talking about really good for movies as well? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2091 Registered: Oct-04 | David, with all due respect, you've been offered a number suggestions, and some good information, but it doesn't seem to be sinking in. The only way you will know if a speaker is loud enough for you, or to your liking, is by listening to it. I suggest you insert the names of the numerous speakers suggested into a search engine, read some reviews, try to find some dealers, and go listen for yourself, because I think this thread has gone as far as it can go. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1852 Registered: Jun-05 | Nick I like the new Atoms,my real speaker was the original Atoms,they have good bass very dynamic for their size and they are pretty detailed with a wide soundstage.The 1 thing that they dont have the Wharfedales have in spades is that midrange magic,the Kefs do to although I prefer the Wharfdales particularly the 9.1 over the 9.2 and of course the great Epos els 3,and another player that will play deeper the Eltax Monitor III. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11024 Registered: Dec-04 | TW, I remember you had a woodie for the Eltax speakers a while back as well. http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/search.php?submit=1&keywords=eltax |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1857 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah the little Eltax are awsome,its close between the 9.1's,els 3's,and Usher S520,but I might give the nod to the Eltax,they have very clean Mid 40's bass,and a very nice tweeter with a sweet topend,damn I gotta get mine back from my uncle,those and Diamond 8.1's will never leave me. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7929 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm now alternating between the ELS 3's and Atom Monitor v6's in my office and really like them both. They have different strengths and weaknesses. Overall I give the nod to the ELS 3 for the midrange, however I think that the Atom Monitor may be more neutral. Still trying to hear the difference between the v5 Atom and the v6...hmmm. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2040 Registered: Jun-07 | That a boy Art. A man that knows what he hears. The Atoms rock a^&#E! Especially for the money. They are like what? 250 bucks? Wild. Paradigm has always tried to go for a neutral sound and they have accomplished this with the new Monitor series. Best speaker series for the low budget cost IMO!! KEF and Infinity can @$@#$@ OFF!!! LOL!! Cheerio beerio mo feerio!! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2041 Registered: Jun-07 | Art I love u man. YOu are the bomb!! |
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New member Username: EexospirePost Number: 9 Registered: Oct-08 | My local Paradigm dealer is trying to sell the Paradigm Monitor Atom for $170 each and the Mini's for $250 each... aren't the mini's suppose to be $379 for a pair? Anyways... I've upped my budget to max $400. I want the least fatiguing speaker possible... and I've been looking at some new speakers: Axiom M3 v2 SVS SCS-01 Ascend Acoustics CBM-170SE Elemental Designs A6-6T6 MTM What do you guys think about these? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2097 Registered: Oct-04 | I think you need to find a new dealer. All of those model's are "Internet Direct" models, why are you now lured to them? You've gone from "loud", to "as loud as" your computer speakers, and now to the "least fatiguing", and you've up'd the budget, but I'd like to ask which speakers have you auditioned David? Which did you like? Why? David, you can agonize over this decision, I know I was there at one time, and rely upon other peoples opinions, like mine, of what you should & should not like, and more often than not those opinions are well intentioned, but you need to know what your looking for first. Having said that, I still say buy the Infinity Beta 20 for $200, and be done with it; you will find no better speaker in sub-$300 or the sub-$400 range, it compares favorably with any bookshelf under $1000, IMHO. You guys must be sick of me recommending those damn things already. |
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New member Username: EexospirePost Number: 10 Registered: Oct-08 | I was thinking about Axiom and SVS from the get go, but hearing reports that Axiom is bright turned me off. I then read that the M3 is their 'least bright' sounding speaker so I would be down. I like SVS based off what they say about their speakers on their websites, but can't get much feedback about them from forum users, so I didn't initially include it. I started off my search looking into Elemental Designs, having heard of them through car audio. But realizing they were still new to home audio, I wanted to go with a company with a reputable history of making good home speakers, and they are 6ohm whereas my receiver is 8ohm... There is no other dealer in Fresno for Paradigm, so I guess I can cross them off since they don't sell online All I have to use as a reference for 'loudness' is my Klipsch 2.1 speakers. I'd like the least fatiguing speaker because I have music going pretty much all day, and I don't want anything that will give me a headache. I haven't auditioned any speakers because I don't have any local speaker stores that has speakers other than Sony, Polk, Definitive, Klipsch, and Bose. I'm staying away from Sony, Polk was ok I think I can do better, and I don't want Klipsch's because that's all I've ever had. I want to expand my horizons. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2098 Registered: Oct-04 | I'm sorry, I can't seem to get my head around this, these speakers are going to be played "pretty much all day long" and "LOUD", without being "fatiguing", and you're point of reference is a pair of computer speakers? David, with all due respect, without a better grasp of some of the terminology being tossed about, like "loud", "bright", "fatiguing", this might be an exercise in futility, and without an audition here & there, I know it is. You came to this forum seeking advise, and advise you've received. Look at the number of post some of these members have, most of them are fairly knowledgeable, and some are VERY knowledgeable, I'm virtually certain you'd be well served from just about any of the aforementioned speaker recommendations (except perhaps those pro speakers, sorry Gav). |
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Silver Member Username: SerniterPiscataway, New Jersey USA Post Number: 214 Registered: Mar-06 | Infinity Beta 20. Done. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2104 Registered: Oct-04 | Hey Srinivas, welcome back. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11053 Registered: Dec-04 | How's things in Joysey, Srinivas? |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1239 Registered: Nov-06 | the pro speaker comment was meant to be sarcastic because I am starting to get annoyed with threads like this... that's all. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2108 Registered: Oct-04 | And here I was thinking you were moonlighting as a DJ. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1241 Registered: Nov-06 | lol chris... |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1678 Registered: Feb-07 | David, if you've owned Klipsch speakers I doubt you would find the Axioms bright. I think you'd be very well served checking out the Atoms. Had you decided on something yet? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2109 Registered: Oct-04 | I'd like to know if the only Klipsch speakers he's owned were computer speakers? Because quite frankly they don't count. |
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Bronze Member Username: EexospirePost Number: 11 Registered: Oct-08 | Yes, all I've had are Klipsch computer speakers. I believe I went from a 2.1 Altec Lansing set to my Klipsch ProMedia sometime about 8 years ago, and then I got a Logitech Z5500... which sucked except for the bass.. and I left those with my old roommate at my old house cuz the tweeters started to sound terrible (too much rock band) I have not yet decided on speakers, although I am leaning towards Elemental Designs A6 6T6, SVS SCS-01, and the Ascend Acoustics 170... I can however get the KEF iQ3's for $200 right now which I might just go for since it's so cheap, but AV123 is going to lend me some ELT525M bookshelfs to check out and those will probably be here within the week. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11061 Registered: Dec-04 | OK, well get something in there to assess anyhow. Good of the boys at 123... |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1873 Registered: Jun-05 | Sorry,guys as much as I love the Epos els3,Atoms,Eltax Monitor III,and Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's,Chris is right the Beta 20's are the best speaker deal going they will crush all these little speakers and they compete favorable against monitors from $600 to $1k,they have a huge soundstage,huge dyanamics,all the detail you need and tight deep bass down to the upper 30's,they are a budget speaker shoppers best friend. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2116 Registered: Oct-04 | A $50 bid will usually win a Beta 20 at the Harman eBay site http://stores.ebay.com/Harman-Audio_Infinity_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ10225969QQft idZ2QQtZkm . I don't know if this is NOS or if Harman is keeping these in production for the time being. I've even seen a few sell for under $40, honestly, it's not even funny what a ridiculous steal these are! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2118 Registered: Oct-04 | ...and what's more amazing is that I routinely watch the Primus P162 sell for MORE than the Beta 20 on that same site. The new Primus series is very nice, but it isn't the Beta series. I bet this has to do with the fact that they received a glowing review in Stereophile a few months back, the entire Beta line came & went with almost no press coverage whatsoever. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8021 Registered: Feb-05 | The Beta is a fine speaker but I still like the ELS 3 and Atom 5 and 6 better. The Beta is dynamically superior but I find that is not the equal of the ELS3 in timbre and the Atom 5 for neutrality and the Atom 6 for smoothness. The Atom also outperforms the Beta 20 in the low end. Better overall balance. BTW Infinity is under the impression that their Beta 20 only does around 60hz someone had better let them in on that extra octave or so...I'm sure they'd like to promote it... |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2076 Registered: Jun-07 | I agree with Arts last post 100 percent. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2119 Registered: Oct-04 | While we might have to agree to disagree on the which does what better, or whether it plays south of 60hz, which I can testify it does, the Beta 20s selling for about $40 a pop is simply too good a deal to pass on. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem%26%26item%3D170275575396&ssPageNam e=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007 |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8024 Registered: Feb-05 | Yep Christopher..we all have different tastes for sure...as it should be. Lots of great gear for all of us. The Beta is a great buy and a steal for the dough. However, that which I stated about the low end appears to be the stated specs from multiple sources. http://reviews.cnet.com/separate-speakers/infinity-beta-20-black/4507-7869_7-312 99722.html http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=BETA20BKS& ser=BET&Language=ENG&Region=USA&Country=US http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?i=108BT20B&tp=186&tab=feat ures_and_specs Much like the Atom the bass feels like it goes lower...however. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2120 Registered: Oct-04 | I never doubted the specs, or your word Art, only my experience with the Beta 20s. And as to how Infinity goes about measuring their speakers, your guess is as good as mine, but here's a little insight from the designer Patrick Hart: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7328933&highlight=#post7328933 |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8027 Registered: Feb-05 | I must have missed the part where he disagrees with Infinity's stated specs. Doesn't matter anyway...as long as we all enjoy our speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2121 Registered: Oct-04 | From Patrick Hart on the AVS forum: "The Beta 50 on the other hand measured flat in the bass (versus the midrange and treble) in the Harman 4pi anechoic chamber but that was with the Beta 50 being virtually suspended in air. Put the Beta 50s in a larger, typical American listening space and you'll be able to basically get as much bass as you'll ever need just be (sic) the adjusting the distance from the side and rear walls." I not sure if this is SOP for all speaker companies as to how they measure their speakers, but it is "a little insight" as to maybe why the Infinities measure the way they do, and why I stand by my claim that 20s play lower than the specs state. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8030 Registered: Feb-05 | It's all good Christopher...I like mine and you like yours...and frankly I like yours too...nuff said. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2122 Registered: Oct-04 | I also noticed the Atoms weigh in at 23 lb per pair, verses the Studio 20s 43 lb per pair. The Beta 20 tip the scales at 20.7 lb each, being far more comprable to the Reference series than the Monitor series, IMHO. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2123 Registered: Oct-04 | I'm just ranting Art, don't mind me. Did I mention that I'm itch'n to listen to a pair of those beautiful new Studio 20v.5 when they hit the streets in a few months. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2125 Registered: Oct-04 | ...if I can find a decent Paradigm dealer somewhere near NYC! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2126 Registered: Oct-04 | ...and Infinity doesn't have any dealers displaying their speakers that I'm aware of in NYC...and they're based out of NY! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2127 Registered: Oct-04 | ...and as for the OPs inquiry into Wharfedales, shoot, they and they're sister company Mission are MIA, good luck trying to find a dealer. Audio Advisor tried pushing Wharfedale about a year ago in a single issue of their catalog, and then poof, they dropped the entire line. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8032 Registered: Feb-05 | Christopher the Beta weighs almost as much as my Rega R5...but I wouldn't trade...see what I mean. It also weighs more than twice as much as the Totem Model One...are we beginning to make some sense here...I'm not ranting just bringing sanity to the weight/quality thing. Defintely interested in hearing the new Studio 20 in January when it hits the streets. Chris I think we like alot of the same stuff...good quality and good value gear...cheers my friend! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2077 Registered: Jun-07 | I might pick a pair of the Studio 20's up. Weight doesn't mean a thing. My Studio Monitors were 80 pounds a piece. My RS6's weight 1/3 that, and sonically do everything possible better. The Beta 20's are a damn good speaker, especially at their price point. Damn good!. But so are the brand new Paradigm Monitor line. Which is better? Is up to the listener, as both brands provide totally different characteristics. Chris, when you hear the 20's make sure you bring a pair home to demo in your house. Hear them in your room. That is if you can find a dealer close by. My next speaker I want to seriously demo If I ever feel the need is the new Signature 2's by Paradigm. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2128 Registered: Oct-04 | No doubt Art, but I do think weight can be an indice of build-quality, better MDF & internal bracing, do add up, especially when comparing apples to apples, clearly Infinity is not Totem, but the Model 1 weighs 9 lb, the Mani-2 23 lb, guess which one I'd snatch-up if I could. Nick, I don't think I'll have any choice but to do an in-home audition, the only Paradigm dealer I know of is a rat-hole, and should have their dealership yanked from them IMHO. Other than the new Studio 20, the only other bookshelf that has caught my eye is long delayed AV123 X-LS Super Wave-Guide, but I've long since stoped holding my breath when it comes to AV123. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11071 Registered: Dec-04 | I will let you know about the Mani-2's when they arrive Weight and so on |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2129 Registered: Oct-04 | Really? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8033 Registered: Feb-05 | The S2's are quite excellent. Image like crazy! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2078 Registered: Jun-07 | Nuck- You get a pair buddy? Art- I agree, they image like mad. Last time I listened to them the back up singers sounded like it was coming from behind me, like I was the singer standing on stage. To this day, the best speaker I have heard personally. I know there is better, but I have never heard it myself yet. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11072 Registered: Dec-04 | It turned into a 3 way trade, should find out soon. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2130 Registered: Oct-04 | Good luck with that trade Nuck. The best imaging speaker I've ever heard are the Ohm Walsh 5-S3. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1875 Registered: Jun-05 | I hear you Art but the Atoms dont do anything better than the Beta though, 2 different class's,dont let the Beta's price fool you now,it would take the new Studio 20's to out do the Beta 20's seeing hat old's and the Beta 20's were a toss up.On the other hand I can see someone liking the 9.1s for their topend and midrange magic,and the Epos for their snappy upperbass and midbass and truth of timbre,I've owned all of them and the Beta 20's bridge the gap quite nicely with some added athority that the others cant match,the Beta's were a very good buy at their retail price of $400,let alone what you can get them for now. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8037 Registered: Feb-05 | I understand that you like the Beta 20 Tawaun and that's great but we will have to agree to disagree about which is most capable. Have you listened to the S2's TW. Great speaker...I'm hoping that enough of the version 1 S2 technology trickles down to the new Studio 20's to take that speaker to the next level. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1877 Registered: Jun-05 | I like them all Art,owned them all,the Beta 20's are all, around superior and more versatile,maybe thats worded better,but no they dont do everything better than the others.The Signatures Art? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8039 Registered: Feb-05 | Like I said we'll not agree on the Beta's and I would hope that would be ok. Yeah the Sigs...no I wasn't saying they are in the same category...just asking if you'd heard them. Interested in whether you like them. BTW, I'm not one of the folks who thinks that the new Paradigm Monitor line is good. I think they are mostly awful...with a couple of exceptions. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1879 Registered: Jun-05 | Love all the Sigs I love their enthusiasm the best yet from Paradigm musical,engaging and detailed at the same time,something Paradigm has never accomplished all at the same time especially the S8 1 of my favorite speakers period and 1 of the best speakers,almost bought them. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8043 Registered: Feb-05 | Totally agree. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2079 Registered: Jun-07 | "BTW, I'm not one of the folks who thinks that the new Paradigm Monitor line is good. I think they are mostly awful...with a couple of exceptions." I agree with that. Atoms, 7's, maybe 9's. "Love all the Sigs I love their enthusiasm the best yet from Paradigm musical,engaging and detailed at the same time,something Paradigm has never accomplished all at the same time especially the S8 1 of my favorite speakers period and 1 of the best speakers,almost bought them." Also, totally agree with that too. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1245 Registered: Nov-06 | I thought that the only new speakers in the monitor lineup that were worth anything were the atoms, the rest were marginal at best, and sounded like they were voiced somewhat to compete with klipsch. Going with what Paradigm had said on the website about the sensitivity of the speakers competing with horn loads, this would not surprise me. Keep in mind that the last time I heard the new monitors was when they were totally redesigned. I am not aware if any sonic changes have been made to the latest series. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8067 Registered: Feb-05 | I am hearing a bit of difference between the v6 Atom and the v5. The v6 is smoother in the midrange and not as tipped at the top end like the v5. Paradigm confirmed to me by email that a crossover modification had been done with the v6 Atom...they wouldn't say what. I have decided that as much as I like the v5 I'm not going to keep it and will keep the v6 as rears in the HT and the Epos ELS 3's will stay in the office system. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2081 Registered: Jun-07 | Right on Art. Good choice. Gavin - I had a chance a while back to audition all the models in the same room with the same amplification and source. The mini monitors,Titans, and 11's were horrible. The 9's were OK, but very boomy. The Atoms were fantastic for the price like I thought, and the 7's also floored me. The 7's ARE basically the Atoms, with two extra drivers. Their sound was very similar. I liked them so much I bought a pair for the theater downstairs. To me, it seemed that bigger the cabinet got in the bookshelf speakers, worse the speaker got. Same went for the towers, bigger then cabinet, worse the speaker got. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1880 Registered: Jun-05 | I agree with you Nick especially on the 11's they are 1 of the most horrible fullrange speakers i know of,their simply hideous. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2085 Registered: Jun-07 | LOL I agree Tawaun. There use to be a day back in the first Generation of Monitor line where people looked to buy the 11's, not anymore. I would say other than the Titans, they are up there for the worse in the lineup. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8092 Registered: Feb-05 | And the Atoms maintain their rightful place as the best of the lineup....that's just weird. Let's hope the new Studio's do well for the Paradigm reputation 'cause the Monitors ain't! |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1246 Registered: Nov-06 | I think it was the v.5 I heard then according to art. I found them to be rather prominent in the highs. Have not heard the v.6 Good to know that Paradigm is smoothing these out :-) I really enjoyed the older monitor 7. I'll have to take another listen. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1883 Registered: Jun-05 | Gavin I liked he older generation 5 and 7,I used to own the 5's they would'nt play loud, but they sounded right really really tight bass,makes me wonder why the 11's were so bad,the very 1st 11's sucked horribly,I havent heard the newer 1's makes you wonder if they even used the chamber for testing they sounded like a really bad diy job. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1884 Registered: Jun-05 | Art,I loved my v2 Atoms,they had their flaws but they were fun to listen especially music with lots of midbass energy they sounded better than some floorstander in that aspect,it always looked strange with all that bass coming out of those tiny little boxes. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2086 Registered: Jun-07 | Art- The new Studio line are going to sport the tweeter from the Signature Line, and the new Signature Line have a full upgraded tweeter from what I hear. Shame about their marketing strategy of the Monitor Line, but it looks though they are focusing much more so on the Studio and Signature line nowadays which is good for us all IMO. |
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