We're building a new home and trying to decide on some in-wall speakers. Looked at Circuit City, Tweeters, Best Buy and Cambridge Sounds Works. To me, they all seem very similar (stupid woman that I am... what do I know?) But husband is just as confused. Looking on-line we found the HTD speakers. These sound like decent speakers for a decent price. Are they? or is something else better?
We're considering the Onkyo 701 receiver, HTD high def. in-walls - but 6.5 or 8"? Or does it matter? Since the Onkyo does THX - will the HTD speakers be OK? What about a subwoofer? Any help/ideas?
Because of the weirdness of the room, we want drop down type speakers for the front speakers, and a non in-wall center speaker so it can move with the size of the TV - Plasma MAY become affordable some day. Currently we've got a Bose center speaker (which stinks BTW), and a bose 5.1 accostomass system, which is OK and runs off a Yamaha receiver (of some sort). Our current in-walls came from Cambridge Sounds works - we've not been happy with the volume level even with the little in-wall turn knob thingy - so we're guessing it's our set up or lack of amplification.
Clearly I've got no clue on techno-speak about this stuff, keeping it at a basic level would be a help. Reading all this stuff has my head spinning. Thanks!
J. Vigne
Unregistered guest
Posted on
You can't buy speakers that "sound" good on the internet. They might be god speakers but you won't know until you hear them. Listening is the only way to pick a speaker. Of the places you mentioned I would have hoped someone at Tweeter was able to help you some what. Were they of no help? Is volume your only concern in the system or what else are you looking for? I know you want it to sound good and you've given your physical needs for the speaker but are you looking for Home Theater, mostly music (if so what kind?) Is 6.5" or 8" what is bothering you or is there more that you don't understand? A sub will normally be needed with an in wall speaker in a Home theater set up. Have you not been convinced of that or what are you asking there? I'm afraid we'll need more information before any of us can really help you. What more can you tell us?
Tweeters was no help because no one was available to talk to us - was during the weekday too and they were busy! Cambridge SWs was helpful, but he confused us with the 6.5 and 8" stuff. I personally thought the 8" sounded better, but wasn't sure if this was over-kill for rooms where we just want "ambiance" sound - like the kitchen. But the 8" probably would be better for the surround sound set up in the living room. Right?
Volume is a concern because in our current set-up we have to crank the volume on the receiver to get the remote/other room speakers to have a reasonable volume - even with the turn knob volume switch all the way up. So this is why we were thinking an amplifier would be helpful - or maybe its just our current receiver. We were thinking the Onkyo 701 would help there - or do we need another piece of equipment?
For the subwoofer - we are convinced we need one -but what we should be getting is the hard part. Here's the stupid question... if we get the HTD speakers and Onkyo 701 receiver, we can still get a subwoofer that is some other brand? Right? But we just don't know what will work best - without paying a fortune and without going cheap either.
We've hired someone to do the wiring so placement isn't the issue so much, but the speakers he sells are called TRU Audio - which are expensive $385/pair (6.5" coaxial speak w/pivoting tweeter) and I've read are just OK and we can only buy through him... (at $385/pair doing a whole house... UG. Expensive.) So we're thinking the $150-200/pair ones may suit our needs just fine and still sound good. Plus there's no place to go to hear these.
Fortunately we have time to decide where to go with this. But auditioning the speakers is difficult since the in store set up seem to favor one brand over another - like Polk or Bose over anything else...
Basically we want our surround sound system to be very good without paying 3G for a receiver and another 3-4G for speakers/subwoofer, and we want the rest of the house to be able to handle a decent level of ambiance music without paying $400 per room for speakers. Hoping someone can just say here - buy this.
Rebecca, i'm assuming since your doing in wall speakers that top notch sound is not your priority, right? More cosmetics and ease of operation? No in-wall speaker will sound as good as a comparable stand mount or floorstander in my 35 years of experience. Thats not to say they can't sound "ok", they can. Avoid Bose like the plague. They suck. Period. Cambridge is ok...been around a zillion years. Henry Kloss did the original Advents, Boston Acoustics among others. He's a decent designer. The big issue is impedence matching. As long as you have somebody wiring the place that knows what he/she is doing, you'll be ok. Now, 6" vs 8" drivers. The 6" will almost always be faster than the 8". Why? Less mass. Easier to start and easier to stop. Thats all things being equal. Faster drivers make for more realistic sound of instruments/voices. The 8" will sound "fuller" because it can go a tad lower in the bass region, BUT if your going with a sub.......who cares, yeah? A word about subs. Most are painfully slow. Toooooooooo slow for any decent hi end drivers. You'll hear it easily enough on any demanding music or movie score. Good subs cost money. Rel makes a good, reasonably afforable one. My opinion is you should nix the "in wall" idea and go with standmounts. But hey, what do I know?
J. Vigne
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Sorry, no one out here can just say buy this. First, we don't know what you have available to you. It would be fruitless to suggest something you can't buy. If you say what you have available on this forum I promise you will get at least ten (more likely fifty) different combinations of gear people think you should buy. And you think you are confused now! It is best to find a good store and put your confidence in them. Secondly, you want as much of the equipment to come from the same dealer as possible to keep hassles down over who is responsible if there are problems. And there usually are some problems when doing a whole house. Not usually major but enough to give you a headache when you don't know the answer and everyone is saying it's the other guy's equipment or install that is at fault. I don't normally suggest having someone install equipment they have not sold for that reason. I agree with maui about the in wall speakers in the main room. But you have to decide what looks and sounds the best to you and come up with your own compromises. It is usually 50/50 as to whether a person decides looks or sound will win out. Let me ask a few more questions. Exactly where are you at in the building/decision process? It sounds as if what you need to be concerned with right now is getting a grip on were you need to run cables and what type of cables and terminations to use, is that about right? Has all that been decided by the installer? Where did you find the installer? Is Tweeter the only decent store you have in your area? Are you close enough to a large city that you might, since you have time, be able to hear more brands? Do you know anyone who has purchased a decent system in the past several years that might recommend a dealer? What were you thinking the amplifier would do for you? Increase the volume of the speakers? Do you know the wattage of the reciever you have now? I ask because wattage is usually not where you start if you want more volume unless you only have about a 25 watt amp now. Speaker efficiency is where you look to get more volume for a lot less money than an amplifier. If you have a 50 watt amp and can't get enough volume out of your present speakers one of the "specs" you need to look at is the efficiency of the new speakers you will be buying. You can usually find the efficiency of a speaker in the literature that comes with it. Check what the current speakers are rated at. Buy at least 3 dB higher if at all possible. (I will also tell you that if you have at least 50 watts right now and are not geting enough volume you may have a problem with your currnt set up and it may not be the fault of the amp or speakers. In this case buy a speaker that is at least as efficient as what you already own. The higher the better for volume.) Have I confused you there? I think if I were going to recommend an amplifier, I would tell you to buy a multi channel amp that has enough individual channels to handle the whole house. This would be separate from the reciever and would be driven off the zone 2 output. How many pairs of speakers do you have planned for the whole house inside and out? If you have no other dealers that you feel comfortable with have you asked the person who will be doing the install where they get the equipment they sell? Make it clear that you are not trying to cut them out of the deal but that you would like to hear some pieces so you feel better about your choices. Most often the installer will meet you at the store they buy from and will help you decide. I would see if this is possible. If nothing else ask if there is a house this installer has done that would allow you to listen to what they have and see what you think. You should have gotten referrences before you agreed to let this person do the wiring, see if one of those people will allow you to visit. If so, ask what problems they had and what they would do differently. If you think either Tweeter or Cambridge can do a good job I would call the store and ask for the manager. Tell them what you are doing, congratulate Tweeter on all the business they have, tell Cambridge you are confused by what the salesperson told you (have the salesperson's name and don't make it sound bad unless it was) and ask if they can set up an appointment with a salesperson who is very patient and can take the time to work with you. If the manager of either store says they don't work that way scratch that store off your list. You'll get the same type service after the sale. When you are working with a store ask for referrences as above. I'm still not sure how you were confused about the woofer size. What maui said is correct. And you liked the 8". I always suggested clients pick the rooms that are going to be important to them for sound. The kitchen/dining area are usually important because you spend time there with friends or you sit there to unwind. The bathroom, though important for many things, is normally not the place you put the best speakers. I would suggest you divide up your spaces as to where you think you would like better sound and put the better speakers there and save some money with the smaller speakers in other locations. Subs are done the same way. If you only want really good sound in the main room you only put a sub in there. You can put any sub with any speakers but many times the same manufuacturer's product work best together. Depend on the store to tell you what is best. If you think you are getting really bad information just say so. Don't take the advice blindly, ask questions. The salesperson makes their living by serving the customer. Some sales are easy and some are not. There is no need to be rude, ever, but make a salesperson justify what they are telling you. Don't settle for "because they make better amplifiers, speakers, or what ever". Get as many specifics as needed for your peace of mind. This doesn't have to turn into a marathon but if you are building a house you will need someone who will work with you for the next six months to a year. I would suggest you take a look at "how you buy and sell A/V gear" under the "Amps" part of this forum. It is a running commentary on exactly what it says it is. Feel free to add comments if you feel the need. Sorry there are no easy answers for you. But you are not the first people who have wanted a system that sounds good and didn't want to spend needlessly. Like everyone else you will get through this. It's kind of like babies. Right now you're in the "I don't know nothing about birthin' no babies, Miss Scarlet" stage. Next thing you know you will either have a fine young sound sytem to eat up your finances or you will decide to put in a pool instead. Let me know.
Thanks so much for the replies. The notes convinced us in-walls for our main surround sound area were not a good idea. We took some time this weekend to visit a local dealer (who has been in business for many years) that sells Paradigm speakers and we listened to the Performance series which fits in the 2db current - you mentioned 3db (Atoms, Titans, Esprits) and a good subwoofers PDR-100 and PS-1000 - liked the PS-1000 much better, you could feel the rumble! They played Clapton Unplugged and then the Star Wars 1 movie racing scene to give us an idea how each speaker and subwoofer sounded. They don't work on commission and we were fortunate to talk to a co-owner who clearly knew the *details* and what works well and what doesn't. He also recommended the Harmon Kardon receiver (AVR 630 I think - need to check on that one) verse the Onkyo 701 we were considering - not so sure about this recommendation, but time will tell. So much can change in 2-3 months.
Fortunately we don't have to buy anything for a couple of months, but we were impressed and happy they took the time to show us each thing. And they automatically extend the warranties without paying extra like other places - you know who you are... Unfortunately they are too busy to do the wiring part for us. But, overall we were happy with their service and the sound of the speakers and subwoofer.
We also listened to the in-ceiling Paradigm - 6.5" AMS-100R - I think. They were perfect for our "ambiance" music needs -but with the cost of the brackets and speakers, we were not convinced $$-wise they were better than some other brands. So, we have a little more listening and deciding to do there.
I'm going to read the "how you buy and sell A/V gear" on the forum to learn some more.
Your comment about the pool made us laugh. We do want one someday, but that will come with time. Movies and music are our first love for the house right now. While I know more about birthin' babies than speakers, I'm a learnin'. I'm a learnin'.
They took the time to show you things even though you are not buying for a few months??? Where is this place? Sounds like you've found a winner. Next time you visit, bring your own music...to reference what you are accustomed to, versus what is in the listening room. Seems like you won't be dazed and confused for long
They took the time to show you things even though you are not buying for a few months??? Where is this place? That's a very good sign and a great way to start. Next time you visit, bring your own music...to reference what you are accustomed to, versus what is in the listening room. Seems like you won't be dazed and confused for long
