I would like to stay around the $1000 mark. I am looking for a receiver that has HDMI out and one or preferrably 2 HDMI ins. I want to run my DVR , apple TV, PS3, Wii through it, onto my plasma. My wife is a sound engineer and likes good sound. good set of 5.1 speakers, dynaudio. We have an older denon avr 3300 that is overdue for replacement. We know and trust Denon, but have heard good things of Onkyo. love to get experienced opinion on this.
To my ears, Bill, the new Onkyo line is much more pleasing to the ears than the latest Denon is offering. In the 1000 dollar range, there is nothing better for an AVR than the Onkyo line at the moment.
Really? I have known the Onkyo to be a well rounded machine especially when you get to the 805/806 region. IMO I have always kept the audio and video separate. I feel this is best. But its whatever floats your boat.
I have two main concerns, one is keeping fewer cables going to my TV. My TV is mounted on the wall, and it is hard to get several sets of cables to it. I like the idea of having one HDMI cable going to the set. Seperates, although I am sure are superior, don't really meet my needs. I really have no clue if the picture is better or worse on the Onkyo, it is just what I have read on this forum that makes me think it is better. I am willing to spend $1000 and more if need be, but when I can get a Denon 988 seemingly the same as 2808, that does what I need from Ecost for $420 , it is really hard to beat, compared to $1199 for a good onkyo. I have asked around town, and the only people who carry Onkyo are Curcuit city, and they have 2 models, so I would have to buy sight unseen. The Denon have a big prescence here in LA, and the high end audio store loves them for this price range. I want to get the best product I can buy. I do like the Denon comes with a microphone that goes in the middle of the room to set the speakers. For me, ease is better.
That unit is a very nice Onkyo. Again, this is my opinion Bill. My opinion of Denon is very low. Yours, and others may feel differently. I can only give you my honest opinion, and that would be to buy the Onkyo. But in the long haul, its your ears, and your money bud, buy what will make you happy.
Good question Bill. You know who is an expert on these, and a lot of other stuff of course, is Frank. Where are you Frank? Let Bill know which is the best choice.
Bill-either one is good, price wise, I am not sure which one would be the smarter choice. That is why Frank is needed.lol.
Sorry I can't tell you which to buy but I can give you some more information t chew on.
The Onkyo 805 and 875 main difference was in the video processing capabilities, with the 875 being much strong using the Reon chip. The 875 is great at video processing. On the sound side of things, the 875 uses Onkyo's vector linear shaping circuitry with the DAC which results in less noise and greater detail, this is the same circuity used in the 905. The power supply on the 805 and 875 are virtually identical with both amps weighing about the same; however, the 875 boasts 65 amps in reserve with the 805 having 60 amps. The new 806 is much lighter than the 805, though it has more HDMI inputs. The difference in the weight is due to the power supply with the new 806 having a smaller, cheaper power supply than its predecessor. This results in the 806 only having 35 amps in reserve as opposed to the 805's 60 amps and the 875's 65 amps. So personally, I wouldn't go 806 but rather 805, though if you care about video processing the 875 kills both the 805 and 806 with the Reon chip - and it has that great hefty power supply. If you can live with the refurb, I'd go 875 but it's your decision. I have heard of 875's selling here in Canada for about $1380+tax brand new, I know a dealer that sells at this price.
All the best with it. Bye-the-way, I have an Onkyo 805 and use it for both movies and music and am quite happy with it. It's not a Bryston for music but it's quite a HT performer. .
If HDMI is an issue, there are always external switchers available. Several 'inputs' to 1 output..to the TV. My B&H Professional Video Sourcebook (1500 pages, as big as a phone book) lists several such HDMI Switchers from Gefen. All configurations from 2 into 1 on up are available.
appreciate all the help. I am going with Denon. Very concerned about reliability with the Onkyo. 1 of 10 seem to have it fry on them. I may sacrifice a little in sound, but I want something that lasts.
FWIW I know of 4 or 5 Onkyo dealers that all claim they havnt had a problem with them yet. They can run warm, but that has been all they have said. The cheap models from Circuit City and such, maybe? I am not sure.
I just dont get the sacrifice of sound quality over video switching. I just don't get it. I have a friend who wants to get a new AVR because of more video switching options. He has a NAD T743 right now. He is looking at such brands as Pioneer and Marantz. Personally I think he is crazy. I think sonically, the NAD would blow any of those two brands out of the water when it came to pure sound. I also had my dealer to offer him the Arcam 350 for HALF price at 1K taxes in. He has so far turned it down due to the fact he wants more video switching. I would have jumped on that. But hey, everyone is different. Enjoy the Denon Bill. Cheers.
1.) UP there with the likes of Arcam,NAD,Rotel,B&K when it comes to sound quality.
2.) Has full 1.3a HDMI switching, and supports all the HD audio formats.
3.) Arguably the best bang for the dollar. Claims from Arcam engineers such as " I don't know how Onkyo is making money off these based on parts used inside them"
I believe that Onkyo probably sounds better. I am tempted for sure. However when half the reviews on Amazon, or nearly any other review site on the 875 say it went up in smoke the first month. really, I am not a fool. As far as video switching is concerned, I am not that worried about it, as long as it has a couple hdmi inputs, i am good. It doesn't do me any good to get a receiver that doesn't have the proper inputs I need. I will enjoy the Denon, I have had a 3300 for eight years and it has run flawlessly. So I will not purchase something that blows up 1 out of 10 times. What fool would do that? If there was another alternative I would look at it. However I don't spend enough time to discern the differences between receivers. I know I am uneducated when it comes to this, I don't know what NAD is or Marantz. My concern is I want a receiver that sounds good and does what I want for a price I want, guess what, Denon makes one. If NAD and Marantz do to, I would love to hear about it, but they are hard to research, and I don't have the time.
By all means buy the Denon - it's your money. However, this 1 out of 10 business is derived from a very small contingent of 1 response on Amazon!
The Denon is bound to be a good machine (I haven't heard the 988) if it's the equivalent of the 2808. You're running Dynaudios which traditionally need a little more power than most since they're a 4-ohm load with average to below-average sensitivity. Normally, I'd recommend the more expensive 3808, which is the direct competitor to the 875/876 models from Onkyo. This will guarantee power delivery under load. The smaller machine may be capable of coping with the entry level Dynaudios (the 42s and perhaps the 52s), but any of the larger Dynaudios such as the 72s would be a big ask for the 2808 and the larger model Denon is a strong recommendation.
Frank. (Sorry guys, been on holiday teaching my car to swim in the floods...)
My dynaudio's are smaller. The specs on the 988 are virtually the same as 2808, the 988 was what is available. The 1 out of 10 thing is much more than one comment on Amazon. 11 out of 41 reviewers had the machine blow up on them. Look at reviews on Nextag, highdefforum, audioholics. All of them remark on the very high rate of self destruction with the Onkyo products. Check out the thread here about the 3808 and the Onkyo. The guy didn't even get it to last 2 weeks. Am I suppose to ignore all this information simply because the Onkyo machines have better tech specs? I knew a guy that made a ton of money in the .com market way back when, luckily he got out in time. He owned 2 ferraris. Do you know why he owned 2? so he could drive one while the other was in the shop. When it was running, it is a fantastic car. If I could afford that kind of lifestyle, I might go for it, well i would probably not waste my money on audio video and do something worthwhile, but my point still stands.
poorly made? Have you looked inside one of the new Onkyo's? They are built like a brick s#!t house. Hi Fi Choice looked inside a 905 and claimed it was one of best built AVR's they had reviewed to date.
Like I said, I've gotta an Onkyo 805 and it runs fine, no fires, no excessive heat, no pops, pings or whistles etc. Remember, the people that write reviews are on two ends of the spectrum generally. Either overjoyed enough to write a review or the opposite. So I think it would be unfair to conclude that 1 in 10, 8 series Onkyo's fail - it just wouldn't explain how Onkyo has been sweeping up the market on AVR's. My amp runs warm but it's not the power supply (mind you there are two fans that can come on to cool that and they've never needed to with me, so far). In fact, it is the processing boards at the rear right upper corner of the amp. that generate the real heat - don't know what they've got there but regardless it is never enough heat to burn your hand or catch a fire. So stop with the Smokey the Bear antics on the Onkyo - it's very unlikely to happen, especially if you give it the 8 inches of top clearance that the manual recommends. That said, go with the Denon, if it puts your mind at peace. It's not a bad AVR - I've heard it but it's ugly as anything up against my big phat 50 pound Onkyo - King Kong AVR.
I decided to buy both the Onkyo and the Denon to test side by side. My Frys lets me return no questions asked. Problem was, it took two Onkyo's to find one that worked. So I have my third Onkyo up. I do like that it has 3 hdmi inputs. I have a PS3 , Dish network DVR, and apple TV, all with HDMI outs. That is good. a problem came, when i originally wanted to hook up satellite through component. All I got was lines on the screen, like static. The corresponding optical audio worked fine. I tried different ports, didn't work, hooked up direct to tv, worked fine. I also tried the apple tv on component, it didn't work through the onkyo. I called onkyo support, supprisingly only took 15 minutes to get someone, good suprise. They summised there is something wrong with the unit. bummer. I exchanged the unit one more time. Because although I would only use hdmi, I wanted stuff to work. New unit did the exact same thing. the picture is scrambled, you can tell it is a partial picture, because when I hit buttons, the scramble changes slightly. So , not sure what is up with that. Now for the sound. The onkyo is rich. a little muddy in the mid bass tones. I like it. The Denon is different in some ways. Cleaner mid bass and highs, not as deep of bass and not as rich, but for sure has the crispness edge.
That's a shame that things are just not working on the Onkyo. Though I have one myself I personally would have given up earlier if I had such an expeience. I just may go check all my inputs myself. Which Onkyo and Denon models did you go with? You've given a description on sound, which do you personally prefer? Hope you get to keep the one you really like better.
Everyone gave such good reviews of the Onkyo, I felt like I had to give it an honest try. The Onkyo 805 was a steal at $559 new. The Denon 988 which is identical to the 2808 just different marketing strategies was $649 new. Like I said , I can feel the power of the 805. My wife, who is a sound engineer at Sony was helping with the listening. The Denon was a little brighter and it seemed like you can hear the seperation of sounds better, which I really liked. The Onkyo blended some of those sounds together more than I liked. I tested movies and music cd's through PS3 to my dynaudio 120+'s . At times I enjoyed the throaghtier sound of the Onkyo, but I missed some of the clarity of the Denon. I tested them both after callibrating with Audessey. Controls of the menu I actually liked the Onkyo more. I do not like that I was not able to get the component inputs to work on the Onkyo, even after 30 minutes with tech. Now that I have done all this, I may go crazy and test out the denon 4308, may be the best of both worlds for me. Although i am afraid I will like it. and If I like that, there are a slew of other recievers in that price range like nad and marantz.
That sucks you had such bad luck on the Onkyo Bill, sorry to hear. Glad you like the Denon.
I agree with you about the 4308, and this is my personal, biggest beef with Denon. Once you get into the higher priced stuff they make, they are trounced by other companies in the SQ department. Denon make very nice AVR's, but for the money of a 4308 you can have a new NAD, Rotel, Arcam, Integra, B&K which sonically, to most listeners, are much better than Denon.
I agree, which for me, my main use for these is TV and movies. Which I hear a lot of these higher end brands like nad, etc. don't do as well. Then I get into things like cables. and would an amp going into the denon be of benefit, or a power conditioner, etc. Right now I have cheap monster speaker wire running under the house to the speakers. I have no idea if that is bad or not. I don't know how much more spending $2000 on a reciever will get me?
Bill- the NAD's and ROtels and Arcam's are amazingly stellar at movies. Like the old AVR saying goes " If it sounds good for music, then it will sound amazing for movies". The problem is, unless you get up to that level, the AVR's are usually poor at music. Not that it would matter in your case.
You know as well as I do Monster are a marketing company. However I have a bunch of Monster speaker cable here, and think it works great. So your fine there IMO. I use a Power Conditioner only in my HT, and mainly for video stuff. I personally feel, and so do a lot of guys on this forum who have brought it to my attention, that power conditioners can really suck the life out of an amp. A power amp may be beneficial, but how good, really, is the Denon pre amp section? I am not sure myself. But you may be better off with a whole new unit, than just a power amp. If the denon's pre amp section is good, then yes, a power amp can be very beneficial for watching movies.
Sorry to hear about these problems Bill. No way would I expect a customer to replace a unit twice. That's just unacceptable.
The 4308 has an awesome reputation. It does 'everything' and I read a review recently which suggested it wasn't far off the next model up at twice the price.
What you should get is much better resolution, better steering, better video on DVD and (if using a 1080p panel) high def broadcasts. You should also get better grip and control sonically - you should find that the amp isn't so easy to stress, even with the 120 series speakers, which are fairly easy to drive but can be a touch lazy.
I haven't heard the latest NADs, Rotels, Pioneers and Marantz's. All have capable receivers. Arcam do not have one yet that fulfils all your requirements. Theirs is due in the next month and will cost money (£2k is the going rumour - about $4000). Arcam know that they've missed the boat on the HDMI breakout scene so I'm guessing the new model will be very good indeed.
The system is as strong as its weakest link of course, so the quality of the cables become more important the further up the rest of your system goes. Oddly enough I ahve found HDMI cables to make quite a bit of difference. Cheaper ones seem to give highly saturated punchy pictures with no finesse, making them grainy as well. It's weird because they shouldn't make any difference. Here' in the UK, the best value for mnoney HDMI cables are from Chord Co which seem to be very close to the best that Wireworld have to offer for under half the price.
Speaker cable can make a significant difference too, and again it depends on the quality of the rest of the system.
I've found that HDMI cables do make a difference too Frank, despite all the reports that seem to contradict this.
I have read that on long runs with HDMI, the quality can make a difference, but I've found even on short runs a good quality cable (read: expensive) cable made a difference.
I found that even a really good Component cable actually rendered better picture quality than a cheap HDMI cable.
I've just ordered a 10ft HDMI cable from Monoprice.com for around $20. I hope it works out. The reviews for the most part looked good bot there were a couple negatives. We'll see.