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Silver Member Username: LamcamOrange County, CA USA Post Number: 122 Registered: Nov-07 | I just wanted to share my story with you here. I am very angry and despress. 2 months ago, I bought a pair of speakers on AG from a seller also is a dealer. He stated that the speakers comes with boxes and rated 9/10 as a demo. I paid him on the same date. Later that day, he sent me the UPS notifications tracking numbers. I tracked the numbers but the status did not come up. I waited for a week and tracked again, but did not come up either! I called the UPS to find out, they told me that the seller has not shipped my speakers!!! I called the seller, and he apologied that he was out of town and so on. He promised that he will ship the speakers tomorrow. He did. The speakers arrvived a week after. They were in the boxes of different brand of speakers. When I opened the boxes, I was in shock. They damaged badly dued to bad packing. There were a few foam pieces in the boxes, nothing to protect the speakers. I called the seller and he claimed the UPS. I was like OK, please call the UPS to make a claim. The UPS came 2 da! ys later to pick up the speakers to inspect and returned to the seller. I called to seller to request the refund. He refused to refund unless the UPS pay him first. I called the UPS a week after to find out. They told me that they has returned the speakers to the seller and approved the claim. I called the seller again to request the refund. He refused and told me to wait for the UPS. One week after, I called the UPS to find out if they has paid the seller. They told me that they are waiting for the seller to call them to process the claim. The seller has not called the UPS and I have not seen my money. Now, the seller has the speakers and my money with him. Paypal has no help for "item not as described" problem and closed my claim. What do you think? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7608 Registered: Feb-05 | I think that's horrible. I've never heard of that at Audiogon. Have you contacted AG and if so what do they say? |
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Silver Member Username: LamcamOrange County, CA USA Post Number: 123 Registered: Nov-07 | I have opended a claim on AG. I don't think they can do anything except close his account there, and he can open another account easily! I filed a dispute with my credit card (lucky me that I used my credit card). They will investigate in 2 months. This is my 2nd time on AG with different dealers who sold on that site. The 1st time, I had returned the speakers to the seller, he refunded my money. This time is worse. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10705 Registered: Dec-04 | What a scam! Sorry to hear that Loc, always a disappointment. I hope it gets resolved, keep trying the seller/swindler? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1925 Registered: Oct-04 | Yikes! Not good. I've made 1 or 2 purchases through Audiogon (and a 100+ on eBay), and things do happen. For example: I shipped a porcelin statue, that was well packed, to a buyer who received it shattered into pieces. He sent me pics, and I refunded him immedietly, and then put a claim into UPS, who took nearly a year to reimburse me! What was this sellers track-record before this purchase? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7618 Registered: Feb-05 | Admittedly I've not bought at A'gon but I've sold numerous times and know lots of folks who have bought there without incident...very sorry to hear about it and hope that it gets resolved, if not sooner then at least later. |
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Silver Member Username: LamcamOrange County, CA USA Post Number: 124 Registered: Nov-07 | Chris, that seller had only 2 feedbacks on AG. I guess he just re-opened the new account again, and he will do that again and again in the future. I hope nobody else will fall into his scam like me. FYI, the dealer is in Montana. You can PM me if you need more info. |
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Silver Member Username: LamcamOrange County, CA USA Post Number: 125 Registered: Nov-07 | Thanks Art. Same here, I have sold and bought many times on AG before without any problems before the last two times with the dealers. From now on, I am not going to deal with any dealers on AG. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mnr3Post Number: 53 Registered: Jan-06 | for what it's worth, ups is no saint in this either. I had a similar thing happen with an expensive racing bike. the dealer (going out of business) did an average to mediocre job of packing a $2500 bike (that I got for $!000). it was put in a bike box that had at least 3 to 4 huge gaping holes from being dropped off the shipping pallets, etc. it took over 3 months of haggling between seller, ups, and their secondary insurance company to settle things out, and even then, it was only for the ebay value, not the "actual" value that it was insured for; ups says that if you paid a thousand that's what it is insured for, even if you claim it to be 10x that and pay the insurance for that figure and even if in reality it might be 10x that on the open market. there is little to no incentive for the shipper-seller to make it right either unless they give you the refund up front which only makes sure that they have to go through the hassle of the ups giant corporate protocols. I was very, very angry about this. so just be extra careful when packing, and assume that even if you label it "fragile, glass" they will throw it from 20 feet down onto a concrete floor with steel spikes. such is the business. cheers |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2967 Registered: May-05 | If you understood UPS's system, you'd understand why stuff needs to be packed the way it should be. I could give a brief description, but you'd have to see it to fully understand it. I worked there for 2 years while in college. FYI - Fragile, glass, etc. written on the box means nothing at all. At least 90% of the boxes say this on them. It has has pretty much no bearing at all in how it's handled. In regards to Audiogon - I've bought and sold stuff there without any problems at all. Perhaps I was lucky with both buyers and sellers. Its a tough thing. The seller is responsible to describe an item as accruately as possbile, yet a lot of that is subjective. Then there's the gamble with the carrier. Often times that's beyond the seller's control. I won't buy anything that doesn't have the manufacturer's original boxes and packaging. Most manufacturers understand what's involved with shipping and package appropriately. Not all, but most. However, a dealer on Audiogon should be the safest bet to buy from. They should know the ins and outs of dealing with shippers, as far as packaging and claims are concerned. I can understand a person like us who buys and sells a handful of things not knowing all the ins and outs, but not a dealer. Its unacceptable. How is he allowed to let you wait until he gets a refund from UPS until he refunds your money? Funny thing is, I always thought the dealers were the ones to trust more than anyone else. Sorry to hear about this. Hopefully it'll be resolved very quickly. |
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Silver Member Username: LamcamOrange County, CA USA Post Number: 126 Registered: Nov-07 | Thanks guys for responding to my post. I would never bought the speakers from him if he did not have the original boxes! They were big full range speakers (Focal 826V), he put them in the Tannoy boxes with a few thin foam pieces around them!!! What did he think? The speakers were damaged very badly... |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10710 Registered: Dec-04 | Methinks that perhaps the speakers have been shipped more than once and were a POS before they were sent to you. Sorry, dude. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 1926 Registered: Oct-04 | I remember almost fainting when UPS arrived at my door with what looked to be two refrigerator-sized boxes with my P362s inside. The reason I was so frightened was that thought I had misread the size of these smallish floor-standers, but I hadn't, they were just that well packed. Original packing material for items like this are all important, IMHO. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3199 Registered: Sep-04 | Oh my! In the UK, none of the carriers (including UPS who are among the better ones in my experience) would even consider the claim if the boxes and packaging weren't original! Is this guy supposed to be an authorised Focal dealer?? Yo could get onto them about him. Otherwise it's off to court... |
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Silver Member Username: LamcamOrange County, CA USA Post Number: 127 Registered: Nov-07 | Yes Frank. He is an authorized Focal dealer, per his website. I really want to do something to him beside disputing with my credit card. How do I report to Focal and what they will do with him? Taking him to court will be my last option as I am just don't have that much time to go there. |
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Silver Member Username: LamcamOrange County, CA USA Post Number: 128 Registered: Nov-07 | Audiogon has considered my right with the seller below, although it doesn't mean anything and doesn't help to get my money back: After careful consideration of all available facts, Audiogon has arrived at a Resolution of your Dispute. RESOLUTION AS RECORDED IN BOTH ACCOUNTS: == Audiogon finds in favor of the buyer. The money should be refunded immediately. It is the Seller's responsibility to insure proper delivery of merchandise, since it is the Seller who does the packing, and since the "insurance" is purchased in the name of the Seller, not the Buyer. Any Buyer who has received damaged goods must first assist the Seller in filing a claim before returning the goods. This can be seen Audiogon's shipping policy in our FAQ's: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/faq.pl?Sellers/Shipping&1065032072&actg#1 http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/faq.pl?Sellers/Shipping&&actg It is Audiogon's position that the Buyer should NOT have to wait for the processing of the damage claim. Further, the Buyer's refund or replacement should NOT be dependent upon whether the shipper pays the damage claim or not. Thus, Audiogon recommends that the Seller either reimburse the full payment amount immediately, or deliver the advertised merchandise in the advertised condition, irrelevant of the shipping company's actions or time taken. Audiogon Dispute staff == Please note that Audiogon's decisions are final. Both parties were afforded considerable resources in an effort to resolve this dispute. We expect that one or both parties will not be happy with our decision. Unfortunately, we are not able to consider any further "appeals" to Audiogon's final resolution. At this time, Audiogon staff will proceed with any actions prescribed above, and then consider this matter closed. |