Dead Denon 3805 =[
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New member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-08 | My 3805 died. I was watching TV, normal volume, when I heard a *POP*, yellow light on the power button followed by a red light which eventually faded out like a squashed Terminator. After checking the power in another outlet, I opened her up (not touching anything) to check the fuses. Found 2 of them, but they were both intact. Started flashing the flashlight around and found this: I have no idea what that part is, but its obviously fried compared to the one next to it. Anyone know what that is, where I might find a replacement, and is it something I can do without zapping myself? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3181 Registered: Sep-04 | Oh my! The question is whether something else made it pop, so I'd always go with sending it back to Denon for repair. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1347 Registered: Feb-07 | How old is it? Hopefully it's under warranty. "... eventually faded out like a squashed Terminator. " That's an awesome metaphor, Joe... or is that a simile? |
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New member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 2 Registered: Aug-08 | Nope, no warranty...Was purchased from Crutchfield just over 3 years ago. I took it to an electronics repair shop today. The guy said he's worked on Denon's before, so we'll see what he can do... |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10685 Registered: Dec-04 | Very seldom is it just one componant that goes bad, Joe, unless it is an IC. Hopefully your service guy is a whiz, there are some guys out there still. Good luck |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1348 Registered: Feb-07 | Probably won't be worth it to have it fixed. Good excuse to buy a new AV receiver. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3186 Registered: Sep-04 | The 3805 was not a cheap AV receiver in its day, and pretty good too. It doesn't cope with the trueHD and DTS Master Audio formats from Bluray but it'll still do a mighty fine job with the standard DVD formats (which bluray encompasses). Replacing it and remaining at the same quality level would cost a considerable amount. |
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New member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 3 Registered: Aug-08 | You know, I really think it might have been dust. Im assuming there was some sort of current going across those metal bars. Maybe the dust got hot enough to cause it to arc? Yea, it was a $1200 receiver, so I'd like to see what the guy can do. In the meantime, I've ordered the Onkyo TX-SR805 to check out. THX Ultra2 certified, HDMI connections. It got great reviews. If its sounds as good as my Denon did, I'll keep it and just sell the Denon. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1793 Registered: Jun-07 | Joe, my good friend just got the Onkyo TX-SR805 on a blowout deal and he absolutely loves it. IMO I would enjoy the Onkyo's sound over the Denon. Your Onkyo also does all the new HD Audio formats. Enjoy. |
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Bronze Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 49 Registered: Jun-08 | I've got the Onkyo 805 and would be interested in how you think it compares with your Denon, especially from a stereo, 2-channel music perspective. I have hear the 3808 and though I might say it is a stonger HT performer than the 805, it's not by much. All the best with the fix. |
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New member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 4 Registered: Aug-08 | Thats really good to hear. I'm actually starting to do some rewiring now =] Just the fact that it does all of the new formats might be worth it. And it looks like my PS3 supports all of the new formats, so its almost a no brainer at this point. Only problem I'm going to have is tricking my wife into thinking its the same receiver  . The Onkyo is black, the Denon was silver... Anyone have silver paint?? lol... |
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Bronze Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 50 Registered: Jun-08 | Hi Nick, Have you heard the Onkyo 805? How do you think it stands up in sound against AVR's such as your own NAD's? You know what's really interesting is the new Onkyo 806, has a smaller power supply, weighs in less, and has a much smaller current reserve 35Amps vs. the former 805's 60 Amps. The 805 essentially has the same power supply that's in the 875/876. It was not until you get to the 905 that they step it up to torroidal. |
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New member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 5 Registered: Aug-08 | George, I will have both in house so I'll definitely be testing this. We'll see how the ultradisc II of Rush's Moving Pictures sounds between the two. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3190 Registered: Sep-04 | The PS3 supports bluray but it cannot transmit the audio (TrueHD and DTS Master Audio) formats unpacked to the Onkyo. It only transmits bitstream DTS/Dolby (in other words, the same quality as good ol' DVD) or Linear PCM (which is the unpacked version of TrueHD and DTS Master Audio). Your new Onkyo can receive Linear PCM so it will benefit from the high res audio if you set the PS3 to output LPCM via HDMI. Your Denon cannot do this. It can 'only' decode the older lossy DVD formats. If the PS3 ever supports sending TrueHD and/or DTS Master Audio, or you buy a dedicated bluray player then the onkyo will be able to receive any of these formats you throw at it. In fact the modern equivalent to the 3805 is the larger Onkyo TX-SR875. This contains some very nifty video chips and bigger power amps (and power supply) over the 805. The video chips in the 875 are amongst the best available. |
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Bronze Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 56 Registered: Jun-08 | One thing to note is that not all dedicated blueray players can transmit TrueHD/DTS MA via bitstream for the ONKYO 805 to decode; however, the newer players tend to include this. If you get one that does this you will see the TrueHD/DTS MA come up on the ONKYO display. The Onkyo 875 has a spectacular video processing chip REON HQV which is better than a lot of the processors built into players. The ONKYO 805 is not that strong when it comes to video processing, it's strength lies in the audio. The power supply on the 875 provides 65A reserve whereas the 805 has 60A on reserve. The RMS rating difference between the two is only 10 watts/channel, which won't make a difference in volume; however, cross reviews have been done and the 875 does sound cleaner at higher volumes - like I said for the Denon 3808, which would be the modern equivalent for the Onkyo 875. Either the 805 or 875 are great bang for the buck, the 905, which is equivalent to the Denon 4808 gets on the pricey side of things. The new Onkyo 806 adds some features at the expense of a smaller power supply...not somewhere I would go. |
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New member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 6 Registered: Aug-08 | There were 2 updates to the firmware that seem to suggest otherwise. Version 2.30 says this: Video * Blu-ray Disc playback now supports DTS-HD Master Audio and DTS-HD High Resolution Audio output. o The PS3 system does not support playback of DTS-ES and DTS 96/24 for DVD-Video or DTS-ES Matrix for Blu-ray Discs Then they came out with version 2.40, which says this: For DTS-HD playback on DVD-Video and Blu-ray Disc media, DTS-ES and DTS 96/24 for DVD-Video and DTS-ES Matrix for Blu-ray Discs are now supported. So what am I missing here? Seems to me it now supports all of the new formats?? |
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Bronze Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 57 Registered: Jun-08 | My understanding is that with the firmware upgrade the PS3 does support all the formats; however, they don't output the bitstream so your receiver won't be doing the decoding (the PS3 will do the decoding) and therefore, you won't see that nice TrueHD or DTS Master appear on your AVR display. |
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New member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 7 Registered: Aug-08 | I see. So aside from the aesthetics of seeing those formats displayed on the AVR, it should still output those formats? |
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Bronze Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 59 Registered: Jun-08 | See the interesting personal experience of someone who had this same question - and the answer is yes, you will hear the TrueHD and DTS-MA through the amp. when connected via HDMI 1.3. Quote: "Anyway, I digress. Long story short PS3 does have TrueHD and other HD audio format abilities, its just that it cannot output them in a raw format (bitstream). So what you have to do is go into the Bluray settings in the PS3 settings menu, and select PCM. PCM is a base digital format which is lossless and all the other good stuff you simply must have these days if you are ever to have sex again (or for you audiophiles out there, for the first time). The PS3 internally transcodes the TrueHD etc to PCM. Once this setting is enabled, the OSD on the TV says TrueHD!! Yaay. But dammit, no little light on my amp! All I get is PCM, seriously I feel like its in Windows 95 WAV format... I quickly shrivled. Hey its cold out. As it turns out you cannot make the PS3 output the HD audio signal for decoding in your precious new amp. It must do it internally." http://jakkaj.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/dolby-truehd-and-dts-hd-ma-on-ps3/ |
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New member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 8 Registered: Aug-08 | Thanks George. Here is another good explanation I found in the comments: Hi Fraser, You are correct - the PS3 does all the work for your amp. It takes the DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD audio data and converts it into a "PCM" stream - see here for more info on PCM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCM. Other Blueray players may not decode the DTS-HD MA or TrueHD internally, they will output it as a raw bitstream, which will then cause your amp to decode it internally, and show the little light which indicates that this format is being played. The end result is that you get exactly the same audio auality and features (7.1, sound quality etc) when the PS3 does the decoding, but you do not get the light on your amp  The good news here is for those who have amps that support PCM but not DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD... with the PS3 decoding the format internally they too can enjoy the new formats! |
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New member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 9 Registered: Aug-08 | Ok gentlemen, I picked up Kingdom of Heaven yesterday, which has a DTS-HD MA track. Im getting very excited. The Onkyo should be here Wednesday. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3195 Registered: Sep-04 | Joe, I'm a bit confused by whatI've read in the last few posts. Here's what I know: DTS-HD and trueHD are simply lossless compression techniques for storing full LPCM data. The player unpacks them before either transmitting to the receiver or decoding in situ. The PS3 has to unpack the TrueHD (and DTS/HD) streams to LPCM since it can't transmit them to the receiver. If it is then configured to send LPCM via HDMI to the receiver, the receiver will receive the LPCM streams and will not know what the original packing used on the disc is! Therefore it cannot display the TrueHD/DTS-HD light since it's not receiving that stream in the first place! At one point, the PS3 could only unpack TrueHD; it could not even unpack DTS-HD Master Audio. The latest updates now allow it to unpack DTS-HD as well. This is what they mean by 'supported'. The standard for Bluray specifies that alongside the standard resolution (DVD) audio there must be at least one high definition audio stream, but that this can be either LPCM, DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD. |
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New member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 10 Registered: Aug-08 | Frank, from what I'm gathering, I understand that TrueHD/DTS-HD light will not be displayed, however, the sound output through the speakers should still be whatever the PS3 decodes. Is that not correct? |
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Bronze Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 87 Registered: Jun-08 | Hey Joe, Is your Denon back from the shop. Have you done a compare with the Onkyo. Really would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7773 Registered: Feb-05 | "Hey Joe"...where have I heard that before... |
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Bronze Member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 11 Registered: Aug-08 | Yes, I got the Onkyo on Wed and have been tweeking it since. The sound is pretty darn good. Played the DTS-HD MA track on Kingdom of Heaven and sounds like I'm right there in the action. Crisp highs, which I like and finally after some tweaking I've got good lows as well. I've always had a small issue with mids as im using a Velodyne Deco 5.1 setup. But over all I'm pretty happy with it. The beginning of Revenge of the Sith sounds awesome!! The PS3 seems to be decoding everything I throw at it. And the Onkyo doesnt seem to mind. Video is...well its OK. I can definitely tell the difference when I hook up the PS3 directly. But its not really that bad and something I can live with. Not sure if I can justify another 600+ for the 876. Though I am tempted... I don't have the Denon back yet. In fact I havent even heard from the guy, so I will be giving him a call on Monday. At this point, sound wise, I think they are very equal with the Onkyo edging it out a bit. So I'll probably just get the Denon fixed and sell it. |
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Bronze Member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 12 Registered: Aug-08 | Guys, you're not going to believe this, but I just friggin lost the Onkyo. I was watching a recording of the F1 race from this morning when, in very similar fashion to the Denon, I heard a loud POP. The power was still on, but I lost all sound. When I looked closer at the display, none of the speakers were showing as active. This is unreal. I dont know if its directly related to the Denon or not. Like I said above, I had that Denon for 3 years in the same spot with no changes to the power in that area. I've got the TV, DTV DVR, a PS3, powered USB hub and a powered sub all on an APC surge protector. And I've had this setup for quite some time now, with the only change being the PS3 replacing a DVD player. I guess its going back to Crutchfield, but I'm really worried now this might happen again. Any ideas about what might be causing this? Or is it just bad luck with the Onkyo? Not sure if 805 is known for this or not... |
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Bronze Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 89 Registered: Jun-08 | Joe, it may be recoverable. I have read some threads on popping sounds from an Onkyo and weird things happending with HDMI and PS3's. I would start with unplugging the Onkyo for 15 minutes. Unplug all your HDMI sources and output as well. Use an alternate surge protector if you have one. In the manual the must be a RESET sequence - to clear all settings/memory back to factory presets. Follow that procedure to start up the Onkyo, resetting to factory presets. Now try the radio. Start hooking up your components on at a time, starting with the non-HDMI. Test operation with each component added. Hook up the PS3 last. Try turning the power of the PS3 on and off and see if you get any pops. Are the other components hooked into surge protector working fine. If it was a power surge you would think other components would fail as well. If it's only the amp, it's probably something with it but it is weird that you had such a similar problem with our Denon. Let us know how it goes and if you get it up an working again. All the best with it. |
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Bronze Member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 13 Registered: Aug-08 | Dammit, seems about 1 in 10 have a problem with this unit blowing up! Just called Crutchfield. They will take it back no problem, but I not sure if I want to go Onkyo again. And like I said, I wasnt very happy with the HD video output. Any suggestions on an amp around $1000? |
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Bronze Member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 14 Registered: Aug-08 | Thanks George. Crutchfield had me do the reset, but no luck. I just unplugged it from the power and the hdmi cables. I have another surge protector ready. I'll give it the 15 minutes and give it a shot. You know, some knock Crutchfield because their prices might be a bit higher, but its situations like these that make it all worth it as they were ready to send me a new one tomorrow morning. |
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Bronze Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 91 Registered: Jun-08 | I have the Onkyo 805 and it works find but I would be hesitant to go with the same if it happened to me. The other AVR's on my list would be the Denon 2808 or 3808 or something in the Marantz line. The video on the Onkyo 875 is spectacular from what I've heard. |
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Bronze Member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 15 Registered: Aug-08 | Well, they don't have the 875 but they do have the 876 in stock. Guess I'll be going with that. Its a little more then what I wanted to pay, but if the video is as good as most say it is, then I'll be pretty happy with it. |
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Bronze Member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 16 Registered: Aug-08 | Ok, done...The 876 is on its way. Im going to plug back up the 805 now and see what happens... |
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Bronze Member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 17 Registered: Aug-08 | So still dead. I packed it up and I'm sending the pos back. |
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New member Username: Willc73Los Angeles, CA United States Post Number: 8 Registered: Sep-08 | wow, this thread is making me rethink my purchase of an 875. I may stick with good old denon. My last one has been working great for 8 years and is still ticking. Sounds like Onkyo have a 1 out of 10 failure rate. That is a huge set back. |
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Bronze Member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 18 Registered: Aug-08 | Take it with a grain of salt, but these reviews on the 875 scare the crap out of me. I might just send back the 876 and just get a Denon. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OBLARW |
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New member Username: Willc73Los Angeles, CA United States Post Number: 9 Registered: Sep-08 | agree. sounds like if it works , it is great. But if it doesn't work, it burns down your house. Hmmmm, what to do? I can get a 988 for $500, it does what I need and more reliable. |
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Silver Member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 281 Registered: Aug-06 | hmm...after reading the customer reviews (which are usually really biased in a positive way), I wouldn't buy anything from Onkyo. Faulty product design, terrible quality control and horrible customer service. Find something else. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3201 Registered: Sep-04 | We've been selling Onkyo receivers since last year when they introduced the '05 models. If anything they appear to be more reliable than the Denons we used to sell, having suffered very few failures by comparison. I was so impressed I even got my sister to buy herself a 605. As for 'faulty design' I fail to see where this is the case. Apart from an early software issue on the 605 which was fixed promptly, the product does exactly as advertised, suffering none of the HDMI sync problems that far more reputable brands suffered from last year. Your experience appears to differ to ours. The only caveat I have is that they do seem to run a bit hotter than the rest and so need better ventilation. You should never place anything on the receiver and should have at least 3 inches of clearance above it, but this is true of any receiver really! |
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Bronze Member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 19 Registered: Aug-08 | Hey guys, I got the 876 yesterday. Its video is remarkably better and I've very pleased with it. I still havent got the Denon back yet, the guy is lagging... |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 227 Registered: Jun-08 | Glad Joe to hear you're enjoying the 876. Join the Onkyo fan club. Still would like to hear how your Denon vs. Onkyo comparison goes, though with the 876, I'm sure Onkyo will sweep the floor. |
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Bronze Member Username: JoerocktPost Number: 20 Registered: Aug-08 | Still haven't got the Denon back yet. I just haven't had time to follow up with the shop as I just started a new job a few weeks ago... |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 588 Registered: Feb-05 | In the past few years Onkyo has made a marked improvement in their receiver offerings with respect to build and sound quality. Their recievers as of late seem to use less current limiting and handle trickier speaker loads better. I recently purchased a DV-CD704 six disk dvd changer with HDMI output and am quite pleased with it although the motor is not a quiet and the disc exchange is not as smooth as my HK cd changer it has performed flawlessly thus far and its video quality with HDMI output is quite good. It appears Onkyo may be starting to do things right. If I had to make a choice I would likely buy and Onkyo over a Denon. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 589 Registered: Feb-05 | I forgot to add though that both companies do produce a top quality flagship model, but lets face folks it doesn't make much sense to pay $4K for a reciever when better seperates are available for that kind of money. I do feel that the top level Denon DVD players are outstanding quality for a mass market product. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10997 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks and good to see you again, ER. I would choke on receiver for over 1500 bucks. But thats just me. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 590 Registered: Feb-05 | Great to hear from you again Nuck! Hope all is well with that big Classe. I second that notion when you can get this and this for a mere $999! This will probably be my next purchase and I will leave receiver land forever. http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/970.html http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7075.html |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3260 Registered: Sep-04 | The problem with quality separate processor and power amp(s) is that you then have to spend a fair amount of money on the interconnects between the two items (trust me - I've got the top flight Arcam duo). The other issue is that the integrated items are already big enough. Adding yet another box can be a logisitical nightmare. Also, there aren't many surround processor/poweramp solutions in the sub $5k category nowadays. Integrated receivers seem to rule up to that level. Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 594 Registered: Feb-05 | Not to argue but seperates almost always equates to better quality than a receiver. I'm sure most on this forum would stand behind me on this. These are available for well less than $5K and I'm confidant without even hearing would readily trump almost any flagship receiver. http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7500.html http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/997.html |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 595 Registered: Feb-05 | I do agree however, that the quality of interconnects between a seperate amp and processor would have much more importance that the quality of ic cables used to connect a receiver to input components. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 596 Registered: Feb-05 | Whew what a day finally home from work! http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAC7100 http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAHA52 This combo which I've heard Parasound before fits the bill for superb sound for about $1300 less than $5K, so you could get this and excellent interconnects and still pocket about $500 or so. I would love to audition this combo against any flagship receiver. I believe it would still sound better than a receiver even if cheap interconnects were used-Monster, AR,generic Parts Express-with shielding of course. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3266 Registered: Sep-04 | Yes, this would indeed be an interesting comparison. I admire the Parasounds for their value for money. The Outlaws are more difficult to quantify since they exist outside the retail stream. As for better than a receiver even with cheap interconnects, you could be lucky but I doubt it. All I'm saying is there's no point in closing your mind to the possibility of more expensive one-box solutions. Your attitude to integrated solutions is positively 70s Eric. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 598 Registered: Feb-05 | With good reason Frank seperate dedicated amps have better amplifier build quality than recievers. I'm sure the Arcam sounds great especially two-channel for a receiver but it won't hold a candle to that Parasound combo, not even considering cables. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3273 Registered: Sep-04 | "With good reason Frank seperate dedicated amps have better amplifier build quality than recievers." Why Eric? If the combined price of your processor/power amp is similar to my integrated, there's actually a good chance that the compoonent quality in my unit is actually better than those in yours. Here are three reasons why this is the case: 1. The amount you're spending on each component in your two-bbox solution is lower thanI am in my one-box solution. 2. The cost of delivery to the manufacturer of your two-box solution is approximately twice that of my one-box solution. 3. The cost of building your two-box solution is much higher (less than twice) than it is for my solution because you have two sets of casework, two sets of power cables, two sets of documentation, extra connections (those on the power amp), and two sets of QA and Test procedures. It's true that at a certain level a single box solution becomes uneconomic by comparison to a two-box solution, and much of this depends on supplier costs as well as other things, but the fact is that you cannot discount a solution simply because of its configuration. People are willing to listen to the options and then make their choices based on what they hear. Incidentally I'm not just arguing the case for the Arcam which I haven't even heard yet, but I ahve listened to so many unlikely solutions which have so broken the mould that it's just not funny. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11019 Registered: Dec-04 | Keeping the rowdy power supply of the amp away from the low power supply electrics is always a plus. But my preamp weighs 35 lbs and has a 500va toroid as well...so... |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 603 Registered: Feb-05 | With good reason Frank seperate dedicated amps have better amplifier build quality than recievers." Why Eric? Isn't the proof in the engineering????! Taking the A52 in example, what other receiver offers a 2.2KVA transformer,any, I thought not. Usually the most top flight receivers offer about 1.5KVA at the most. What other reciever offers hand selected,matched, current gain transistors? I cannot detect any ribbon wiring in this amp, in a receiver even the best, this will be unavoidable. The fact is in a one box solution compromises will always have to be made. The cost of shipping components is a small consideration and probably comparable since some receivers weigh over 80lbs! Sorry you will have to do better than that I am just not convinced. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3280 Registered: Sep-04 | Fine - be blind. I've said my piece. |
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