A desperate first post of the help-me variety!
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New member Username: FillyjonkPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-08 | I've had the same Kenwood stereo for 15 years (come October 7th!) and it's time for a change! I'm looking to buy both an amp, a cd-player and speakers - and despite of researching for the better part of a week, I'm left mightily confused. Trying to curb my confusion I went to a local hifi shop and listened to the B&W 685 speakers through a NAD C325BEE amp and NAD C525BEE cdp, which sounded very forceful and deep to me, but seemed to lack treble detail. I then listened to the same speakers through the Cambridge Audio 640A v.2 amp and Cambridge Audio 640C cdp and even though the sound was no longer as in-yer-facey and didn´t seem to fill the room as much, the detail was a lot better and the highs were more clear, which I really liked. I asked the salesman if he could recommend a solution in that price range that was sort of a balance between these two: both forceful and detailed - both deep and bassy and clear and trebly. (I'm afraid I've still got much to learn in the ways of hifi terminology, but I hope the gist of my desires is clear!) The salesman didn't have any ideas for a system like that, but simply recommended the NAD amp, saying it was the only one in that price range powerful enough to do justice to the B&W 685 speakers. Is that really true? Based on online reviews and posts here, I was thinking the Rotel RA-04 might give the balanced sound that I seek, but is that amp too weak to really drive the B&W 685? As an alternative, would buying the Cambridge Audio 640C cdp along with the NAD C325BEE amp possibly add some detail and treble clarity into the mix, because of the cdp? (The salesman recommended the 640C, but didn't recommend mixing brands.) In list form I guess the three options I'm considering are: 1. NAD 325BEE amp, Cambridge Audio 640C cdp, and B&W 685 speakers 2. Rotel RA-04 amp, Cambridge Audio 640C cdp and B&W 685 speakers. 3. A completely different system! Maybe the speakers are the root of the problem to begin with? What about the DALI IKON 2 or the EPOS M5? Or perhaps a different amp, like the Rega BRIO 3, which I've read a lot of praise of, would be better for my purposes? I really hope this has not been too long a desperate first post of the help-me variety, and would be delighted with any advice you care to give. The best kind of kind wishes, Johannes |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1759 Registered: Jun-07 | I think you need to listen to some more systems Johannes. Perhaps in your price range a full Rotel setup, or Rega setup. You should really give the Brio3/Apollo/R3 Rega system a listen. For the money, one of the best. I personally enjoy the Rega R3 speakers better than the 685's. Also, to add, I would never in a million years pair NAD electronics with B&W speakers. Just awful. Personally I feel Paradigm, PSB, Dynaudio are some of the better mixes with NAD. If your stuck on the B&W speakers try to see if you can hear them with Rotel instead. I hate to be a brand thrower. But also see if you can audition some of Arcam's new entry level stuff. Very nice stuff. Not sure if its in your price range. Cheers. |
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Silver Member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 276 Registered: Aug-06 | Yes Johannes, I agree with Nick. You should listen to some more systems. B&W speakers aren't for everybody. Or is any brand, I'm afraid. The Nad and Cambridge combos will sound quite different paired with other speakers and vice versa. What kind of music do you listen to? What kind of a budget do you have for the total system? These questions will help others to chime in with opinions on components that might suit your needs. |
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New member Username: FillyjonkPost Number: 2 Registered: Aug-08 | Thanks you so much for the replies! I think you're right that I really need to listen to more systems. Exclusively reading about it all makes my head spin. The only other system I've heard since I started reasearching was the Epos M5 with an AMC 306d amp, and that was actually pretty alright, just not that interesting, and the sound, while very rich on detail, seemed to lack the drive that the b&w 685s had, even when the B&Ws were paired with the CA 640A. (I want both the details and the drive!) The Rega system seems really excellent, but is sadly out of my price range - by 900 dollars in fact! I've got about 1800 US dollars to spend in all, but hifi prices seem to be somewhat higher here in Denmark, so I may have a bit less than that. What I buy now I plan on sticking with for as long as possible, as my economy is simply too fragile to be thinking about upgrading - without having anything falling apart. Considering that, would it be best for me to stick to one brand, or could I perhaps pair the Rega Brio 3 with a rotel cdp and the B&W 685s? Though I'm not particularly set on the B&W 685 speakers, but they seemed good with both of the amps I heard them with, and able to accomodate different amps to large degree, even with the different shortcomings, so I figured that they would sound great to me if I could just find the right amp! But there seems to be a speaker brand problem in Denmark: I can't find any Danish stores, which have Dynaudio, Paradigm or PSB, and most of the speakers I've read good things about are out of my price range. There are a lot of Rega and Rotel stores though, but there's a whole lot of different brands and combinations of systems, which I don't have any possibility of listening to. But when I listen I listen to both jangly indie pop, hard hitting rock, dark post punk, thumbing electronica and sweet singer songwriter stuff. So I guess I need a diverse or balanced speaker and system to go with that? |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1413 Registered: May-06 | To keep it simple, do you have experience with music, either playing or listening to it live? Especially the kind of music you like? Have you considered the used market? I would not just buy something on line on eBay or something like that, but Audiogon might have some things that could meet your needs. I take it that you have limited access to products so it will be a bit more difficult for you. What about a DAC, amp, and speakers and using you PC as a source until you can save up cash for an Apollo? I say it that way as you are $900 short for a Rega system. Oh yeah, back to my first two questions, look for something that sounds as close to live music as you know it. The type of music you prefer can be fatiguing to your ears on a wrong system and you do not want to keep turning off your system after 45 minutes of listening because it makes your head hurt. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10671 Registered: Dec-04 | johannes, what ypes of audio dealers have you to work with? Have you been to the audio shops close by, talked to the folks there? Have you seen what they have on the shelf for pre-loved gear? Do stop by and have a chat. |
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New member Username: FillyjonkPost Number: 3 Registered: Aug-08 | That's a really useful suggestion: going for a system that sounds as close to the kind of sound, which I like live music to have. I go to a lot of shows, so I'll definitely use my favorites as a reference point. I considered the used market, but as I want the system to stay healthy as long as machinely possible, I thought it best to buy new. I've actually used my pc as source (though without a DAC) for a few years, since my cdp broke, and that has become a bit tiring to me, so I'd very much prefer to get a cdp and not wait, since I could be waiting a long long time. I've been to two audio shops here in Copenhagen, but one (mainstream one) just wanted to sell me the NAD system with B&Ws, while not being very informative. And the other shop was so informative and mentioned so many new aspects of archiving a good sound (while only playing two systems for me) that I didn't know what I wanted anymore and left feeling almost despondent. But I've just now discovered a store not so far from here that has Dynaudio and Monitor Audio speakers, so I'm off for a listen to the 42s and Bronze 2s! If they go well with the Brio 3, I'm thinking I'm willing to spend a bit more than originally planned, just to get a cd player of about the same quality as the rest of the system, so I won't have a glaring weak link. But an Apollo is sadly still a bit too expensive for me. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1761 Registered: Jun-07 | "But I've just now discovered a store not so far from here that has Dynaudio and Monitor Audio speakers, so I'm off for a listen to the 42s and Bronze 2s!" Johaness- If the Monitor Audio dealer has NAD, seriously give it a listening to. Much much much better combo than the NAD/B&W. Let us know what you find. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2958 Registered: May-05 | A lot of good things have been posted already. I'm also personally not a big fan of the NAD/B&W combo. You mentioed Rotel earlier. I think they may be more of what you're looking for. They have a more forward treble and a bit livelier sound than the NAD gear does. The RA series is their entry level stuff, so don't expect revelations in detail or anything else. The best advice we can give you is to listen to complete systems. Have the dealers put a few systems together in your price range for you to hear. Just because some components are very good doesn't mean they'll sound good together. You mentioned a Brio3/Rotel CDP/685 system. That wouldn'd sound good at all IMO. None of the gear matches with the rest in terms of sound charecteristics. When you have a synergistic system, the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. The easiest way to get synergy, especially at your price range, is to have the same brand amp and source. For a Rega system, have you considered the Brio/Apollo/R1 speakers? The R1s are a good deal cheaper than the R3. If that system is beyond your reach, I'm sorry I came back to it. I wasn't sure if you considered the R1 or just the R3. I was going to say I find it odd that you couldn't find a Dynaudio dealer, since they're a Danish speaker. |
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New member Username: FillyjonkPost Number: 4 Registered: Aug-08 | Thanks for your great help so far! The Dynaudio Audience 42s has apparently gone out of production and has been replaced with the Dynaudio Excite X12s, which I listened to today, along with Monitor Audio BR2s, the Rega R3s and the System Audio SA-1530s. I heard the Dynaudios and Monitor Audios on the Atoll IN 50 SE amp with Atoll CD 50 MK3 cdp and I liked the Dynaudio sound a lot more. (I thought it was a lot better at conveying intensity, and it had a more clear and precise bass, where the MAs sounded more forced and muffled and sort of confused to me.) I then heard both speakers on the Marantz PM 4001 amp and Marantz 5001 cdp (a price level or two below the Atoll system) and still the Dynaudio X12s sounded quite a lot better than the MAs. The Dynaudio/Marantz combo even sounded better than the Atoll/MA combo, but the Dynaudio was simply heaps better with the Atoll. (And also a lot better than the B&W 685s I previously listened to.) So I think I'm heavily leaning towards getting the Dynaudio X12 and then building the system around them. The dealer said that the main difference between the Dynaudio 42s and Dynaudio X12s was that the X12s sounded "more fresh", though I'm not sure what that really means. I'd have liked to listen to the 42s as well, but sadly they had all been sold never to come back. Does anyone know how the X12s compares with the 42s? (I could seek out a used pair if there's a notable quality difference but a similar sound.) I then went to another store and heard the Rega system with both Rega Brio 3 amp, Apollo cdp and R3 speakers. That sounded really very good as well, though not quite as good as the Dynaudio X12 on the Apollo system. (I then heard the System Audio SA-1530 speakers on the Rega electronics, because the dealer said they had a similar sound to the Dynaudios, but it didn't seem that way to me and of the two I preferred the R3.) I really would've liked to have heard the Brio 3 with the Dynaudios, but sadly no store had them both. How does the Rega Brio 3 compare to the Atoll IN 50 SE? The dealer said he'd give me 200$ off of the Atoll IN 50 SE if I bought it together with the Dynaudio X12s and that seemed like a good deal to me. (And it brings the Atoll down at the exact same price of the Brio 3.) If I went for that, then all I would need would be a cdp, which would suit the system and not cost much more than 400$! Is that even possible? I'm thinking I still need to listen to the Rotel system as well. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1984 Registered: Nov-05 | Hey Nick - you said: "Also, to add, I would never in a million years pair NAD electronics with B&W speakers - just awful" I guess that was my problem all that time I had NAD powering B&W's eh?  It wasn't just me who like that combo either - it used to get a quite a lot of positve remarks. Admittedly my current set up is more preferable - and not by a small degree - and so it should be value-wise, but sweeping statements such as the above are not always helpful. I know a lot of people prefer Rotel with B&W - I heard one amp (forget which model) with the same B&W's I had, and I prefered them with the NAD. But that's just my opinion - I haven't heard all NAD, Rotel or other amps with all B&W speaker models - so who am I to say? |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1785 Registered: Jun-07 | My apologies M.R. I should be more careful with flaunting my opinions like that. Cheers. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1986 Registered: Nov-05 | S'okay Nick - my shattered ego will repair over time. [big grin] |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3185 Registered: Sep-04 | Johannes I've never heard of Atoll so I can't help you there. The Dynaudio Excites are a lot more expensive than the outgoing 42s. I have not heard the Excites properly yet so I'm not sure of the difference in sound. $1800 is about £1000. Given that Dynaudio Excites are £600, I don't see how you're going to stay in budget, especially when you add the price of the stands! Perhaps you're getting good deals, or has your budget risen? The NAD C325BEE is not really powerful enough in my opinion for the B&W 685s. The new B&W 68x series is really quite a handful to drive so needs more power. Again, the 685 is £389 so I don't see how this stays in your budget. I'm also a believer in getting the source and ancillaries right for a system. If the source (the CD player) isn't up to scratch, no amount of amplifying will improve the signal. The system I'd put together would be: NAD C542 CD player (£300 or so) NAD C355BEE amplifier (£350 or so) B&W 686 or Focal Chorus 705V (£279, £289) Chord Cobra 3 interconnect (£75) Chord Carnival Silver Screen (£6/m) Atacama SE6 (£99) or Partington Trophy (£130) speaker stands Notice how the ancillaries blow your budget, but this would be a properly balanced system making best use of the various parts. Haver you been to HiFi Klubben? Their close ties to Dali might make the entry level Dali speakers worth a look. Many people love their Dali speakers. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1789 Registered: Jun-07 | Frank- Great post. M.R- if its any consolation I think your current system kicks major a $ $ my friend. Bravo. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1988 Registered: Nov-05 | Feeling a little better now - keep it going Nick heh! heh! Frank, haven't heard the new B&W range - the dealers here won't stock them anymore because B&W insists on minimum first orders of about $10,000 (each of the range across the colour scheme). Not a good move I'd say! |
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New member Username: FillyjonkPost Number: 5 Registered: Aug-08 | No, you're right Frank, I'm going to go way over my initial budget. But happily! I think it was hearing the Dynaudios with the Atoll that made me realize how much better music from a cd could actually sound. So now I'm thinking I will have to stretch my budget to about 1500£ to avoid any obvious weak links. And of course I didn't really consider that I needed better cables and stands to do a better system justice before you mentioned it. Thanks a lot!  But are stands really required? When I heard the Dynaudios in the store, they were just standing on a shelf and they really impressed me anyway! (Of course it's very possible they will impress me even more on stands.) I'm thinking a system consisting of the Dynaudio Excite X12s and either the Rega Brio 3 or the Atoll IN 50 Second Edition and then a suitable cd player and cables. Would the Cambridge Audio 640C cd player perhaps be an alright fit with that? It's not too expensive, so I would (almost) be able to afford both decent cabling and stands that way. Assuming the Dynaudio X12s sound somewhat similar to the 42s, would Chord interconnects and cables perhaps also fit the X12s with the Cambridge Audio 640c and the Rega Brio 3? (Or perhaps van den Hul d300 III interconnects, which I just read a whole lot of good things about searching for info on cabling! It seems they would fit the system, being neutral and really dynamic, but maybe it would be too much of a good thing?) Judging from this review of the first version of the Atoll IN 50 http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/atoll-in50_e.html it seems to have some of the same (flat earthy) qualities as the Rega Brio 3, in addition to a more potent power supply (and a crappier exterior). |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3189 Registered: Sep-04 | MR, in my view you haven't missed much.  I wish B&W would stop making the most of their marketing and start making some decent sounding speakers at the 68x series end. Johannes, £1500 opens up many options to you. This is definitely dealer territory since they can put together known packages for you. In my opinion, the Rega Apollo/Brio combination is a must-listen. Forget the Excites - at £600 they blow your (new) budget if you build the front end correctly. One of the nicest sensible systems you can lay hands on is the Rega combination above with the Focal 705V or 706V on Atacama SE6 stands with Chord Cobra3 interconnect and Naim NACA5 cable (£11/m). If your Rega dealer does them, also consider the Rega R3s. If you can find a pair of Dynaudio Audience 42s ex-demo, they're also a good combination, as is the Totem Dreamcatcher for a little more. Stands locate a speaker correctly. They also dissipate energy into the floor away from the speaker cabinet without deadening the sound too much by overdamping the speaker. Therefore, not all stands are the same and not all stands work with bookshelf speakers! They need to be chosen for the speaker. A new option would be Arcam's new FMJ range. I have been impressed with the CD17 and A28 but the latter is over budget so you would have to look at the A18 with which I have only glancing experience. The new CD17 is a fine CD player. Cheaper than the Apollo by £100. Personally I prefer the Apollo, but it's a close run thing on certain types of music. The Arcam has a somewhat warmer mellower presentation but this can be very enticing. The A18 is more expensive than the Brio but it has remote control and a couple extra connections - and I think it's a touch more powerful. Good amplifier. Another option is Arcam's Solo Music with a nice pair of speakers. The Solo Music is an all-in-one unit of CD, tuner and amplifier for £1000. Add suitable speakers (as above) and you're in business. One last left-field wacky suggestion: the Meridian F80. It's £1500 for what appears to be a table top radio, but in some respects it beats the pants off anything I've mentioned so far, and it's a complete entertainment system including DVD replay via s-video (brilliant picture actually), CD, FM/AM/LW/DAB tuner, built-in amplifier, built-in full-range speakers and subwoofer. And it looks gorgeous. And it has a ferrari badge (there's a good reason though). http://www.thef80.com |
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New member Username: FillyjonkPost Number: 6 Registered: Aug-08 | Thanks Frank, for another really helpful post. I auditioned the Rega Apollo/Brio combination with the R3s and liked it very much. But in Denmark the Apollo is 750£, which seems to me to blow the budget even more on just one part of the system as I'm then up to 1180£ for just the cd player and amp. Is the Apollo about the only cd player that is recommendable for the Rega Brio 3? The focals sound really good to me (from what I've read!), but sadly the only Danish dealer is on the other side of the country from where I live, and it feels a bit risky buying via their internetshop without having heard them through ears and not just through words. (And the Totems doesn't have any dealers at all in Denmark as far as I can see.) I think I figured it would make sense to use the most money on speakers, as they seem to me to (albeit with my very limited listening experience) "color" the sound more than any other component with their "personality". (In lack of more precise hifi'y vocabulary.) At least that's what I thought when listening to the X12s and MA BR2s in different combinations with Marantz and Atoll electronics. (It was most obvious with the X12s though.) I think I'll go listen to the Arcams you mention and try it with some different speakers! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3193 Registered: Sep-04 | Johannes, Hmmm, that's not good! £750 is a lot more than the £600 the Apollo costs here. This is the problem with advising on the 'net! £1180 - £750 = £430 and that's more than the Brio costs here too... I really think you need to chat with your dealer(s) to see what they can offer you in your neck of the woods. I agree that buying the Focals online is a bad idea since you have no idea what they will sound like. You may like them but you may not! As for spending more money on the speakers because they colour the sound more, I appreciate where you're coming from, but it's a bit like saying you'll put a 1500cc engine in a Ferrari. The car looks like it'll go fast, but the actual performance will let you down. The electronics provide the motive power which the speakers react to, not the other way around. A good speaker will reflect the motive power behind it, and therefore if that motive power isn't all that hot, it shows this fact very clearly. If the motive power is good, then the speaker reflects it just as well. The motive power obviously depends o the amplifier in terms of sheer current and driveability, but it also depends on the quality of the signal from the source. If the quality of the signal isn't all that great then the amplifier amplifies a not-so-great signal and the speaker shows it all up... This is why I make the recommendations that I make. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10697 Registered: Dec-04 | Absolutely, Frank. Good componants and a well thought out kit of electrics can make shitcans sound reasonably good, better speakers can finish the job, but not the other way around. |
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New member Username: FillyjonkPost Number: 7 Registered: Aug-08 | I've just bought a pair of Dynaudio 52s including VM Acoustics Reference speaker stands for 450£ total! They're used but only three months old with both a warranty and receipt and everything, so I'm quite thrilled. From several of Franks older posts on these forums, I realized, though, that these speakers would prefer a more powerful amplifier than those I've previously considered. But my Rega dealer assured me that the Brio would be adequate for the job in my relatively small room, though not excellent, and he argued that for my budget, and for about the same amount of money, it would be a far better choice to buy the Brio and Apollo, than for example the Mira and a much cheaper cd player. A suggestion which chimed with your recommendations here of source first. So reluctantly accepting the realization that I'd have to compromise more or less in whatever system I chose, and yet again pushing my budget a bit, I bought the Brio 3 and Apollo! And so far this combination has been playing truly amazing in my room! (Even though nothing has been broken in yet, except, perhaps, for the speakers.) I don't even have good cable, as my dealer offered me some Hitachi cable for free just to get started. They didn't have Chord cable and weren't too fond of it, and suggested I instead get the Swedish Supra Ply 3.4 cable, but I wanted to check with you guys first! Do you know how the Supra Ply 3.4 cable compares to the Chord Carnival Silver Screen cable? How about the Chord Cobra 3 compared to Supra interconnects in the same price range? Thank you all so much for your excellent advice! You really helped me make a very tough decision, which I'm so glad to have made. This forum is really a haven compared to most. |
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New member Username: FillyjonkPost Number: 8 Registered: Aug-08 | Has anyone heard of or experienced thin horizontal red stripes on the display of a Rega Apollo before? It's there both when the display is on and off, and I'm a bit worried that it's a sign that everything might not be right with my unit. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10853 Registered: Dec-04 | Does it play ok, J? If you are willing to open it up, just a little fiddling might do it, but that seems like a bad display. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7866 Registered: Feb-05 | If you can get it the Van den Hul "The Wave" interconnect and Snowline bulk speaker cable would make excellent choices for your gear Johannes. |
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New member Username: FillyjonkPost Number: 9 Registered: Aug-08 | Thanks guys. I wouldn't have a clue what to look for, so I'm afraid I'll just make it worse by trying to open it up and fiddle about inside! But last night before going to bed I pulled the plug on the Apollo, thinking it might be some kind of software problem that could be reset from its memory by simply pulling the plug. But that was not the case, and the stripes are still there. Though they are faint in daylight, they are clearly visible in a dark room, even with the display off. I haven't noticed any obvious differences in the sound before the stripes showed up and after, but it still makes me somewhat concerned. I'm thinking little things like that CAN really affect the sound quality in subtle ways. (I read that simply turning the display off makes a difference, (though I'm having trouble detecting that particular difference.)) Art, I'm using the Cobra 3 interconnect and Chord Carnival Silver Screen speaker cable at the moment, but I'll check out the Van den Hul "The Wave" interconnect for the Rega P1 I'm looking to buy! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3212 Registered: Sep-04 | Johannes, Take the Apollo back to your dealer. What you describe is incorrect behaviour and if you return it quickly you should be able to get a new one (unless the dealer says he can open it up and fix it by just pushing in a plug correctly or something like that). Observation: Difficult for a brio3 to drive a pair of 52s. Very nice speakers of course, but difficult - I would even say it's a bit difficult for a Mira3. In a small room, the Brio should do well. Fabulous amplifier for the money in my view. Chord Cobra3 is a nice entry level cable, difficult to beat in some respects. If your dealer truly believes in his Supra cable get him to lend it to you over a weekend to try it out. I would be surprised if it turned out to be better. Normally I use far more expensive interconnects from Chord which is very naughty but it just works really well (Chorus comes to mind). Chord Carnival Silver Screen is OK. However, I really like Naim speaker cable with Rega amplifiers. I find it gives them a real boost with drive and energy. At £11/m it's not incredibly expensive either (although not as good value as it used to be). As things are, the Chord cables are reasonable. If I were to change anything it would be to change the Silver Screen for Naim cable and then later sort out the interconnect. Oh - and of course, I'd go better than a P1 if at all possible. The P1 is good at its price but that's it. Think P3-24... (I know - I'm the devil.) As for the speakers, my experience with them is that they like a bit of distance from the back wall (about 50cm or more), perfectly level and not toed in at all. If you toe them in, they produce a very tight image stuck between the speakers and the bass slows down. Try them with absolutely no toe-in first. If the image is vague, then toe them in by very very little (2mm or so), and the image will snap into focus, but the bass will remain fluid and sprightly. Also, do not put them too far apart. 1.5m - 1.75m is enough. |
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New member Username: BatonwielderPost Number: 8 Registered: Jun-08 | Johannes, would you mind taking a look at the bottom of your Brio chassis? Could you tell me if the assembly is tight and gapless? Just bought mine and the build quality is horrible! The distributor says all of their units are like that as well, so it's normal. I just can't accept this because the Apollo has the same chassis and it's perfect. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7870 Registered: Feb-05 | My Mira 3 looks good...what's wrong with yours Alexander...pictures if you can. |
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New member Username: FillyjonkPost Number: 10 Registered: Aug-08 | I called Rega in Denmark on monday, and they were extremely nice and said that they'd send me a replacement within two days. I just got it today, but it has the same seven, red, thin horizontal stripes on the display, even when the display is off and all the other numbers have disappeared, and the Apollo is still on. In daylight you can barely make them out, though, but they are very obvious in a dark room, making the display shine red when watched a few meters away. The guy I spoke to at Rega had no idea what might be causing the stripes, and he hadn't heard about it before. I just called him again now, and he said he'd send me another one that he himself would personally check for the non-existence of red stripes. But could it just be a normal thing after all? Or could it be some kind of electrical interference from the other electronic equipment in my apartment? It seems a bit unlikely that I would receive two units with red stripes when noone else apparently has experienced these stripes before. Or it might be that I'm just fixating on this quirk that noone else really notices, but which every Apollo has if you look closely. Would an Apollo owner perhaps be so kind and check the display in a dark room or with the display off and see if they see thin, red stripes lighting up while everything else on the display is not lighting up? That would go a long way towards my serenity! Alexander, my Brio is not the best build either, and there's a 2mm gap where the left part meets the main chassis, but no gap in the left side, and other than that it seems really well put together and solid. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3219 Registered: Sep-04 | Our Apollos have never had any stripes on their displays - not that I could see anyway!  |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10861 Registered: Dec-04 | I use the Apollo in the dark all the time...no stripes. |
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Bronze Member Username: FillyjonkPost Number: 11 Registered: Aug-08 | Thanks, Nuck and Frank. I went to my dealer yesterday and he checked three Apollos and one Saturn that he had, and they all had the exact same stripes as mine. He mentioned that Rega has recently updated the firmware in their cd players to fix a problem with the mp3 playback, and it's my guess that this fix has somehow inadvertently introduced the stripes. As I have no basis for comparison, I'm unsure if it might affect the sound quality of the units in any way, but my guess is that it might have had the effect of removing the sound quality gain you could get from turning the display off, since the display is obviously still on when the stripes are lighted up. (Is it perhaps the act of turning the display's powersupply off by turning the display off that helps the sound improve?) What are your thoughts on this? I'll try and write to Rega UK and see if they know of the problem. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10863 Registered: Dec-04 | Huh. Who knew? |
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Bronze Member Username: FillyjonkPost Number: 12 Registered: Aug-08 | Apparently Rega UK has no direct customer support and no way to get in touch, other than through local distributors. I just spoke with the Danish distributor though, who said he'd get in touch with Rega and try and find out what the stripes are all about. He seemed to downplay the issue though, suggesting that it's no big deal, and that I should be content with what I got. But as I see it, there are three main issues that obviously mandate the fixing of the stripes: 1. It counteracts or even annuls the particular feature of the Apollo to turn the display dark for moments when its LCD is distracting. With the stripes constantly on, whatever you do, it's still clearly glowing red in a dark room. (Although not as bright.) 2. It's possible that it might annul the ability to achieve a small boost in sound quality by way of turning the display off, thereby removing another (perhaps intended by design) beneficial effect of the Apollos ability to turn its display off. 3. If it is indeed a bug introduced through a firmware update, then it should be fixed for that reason alone, irregardless of the validity of the two previous reasons. And it seems very likely to me that it has indeed been introduced recently via firmware, since the newer units my dealer had all had it, and the older units, which I assume that Nuck and Frank have experience with, doesn't. |
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Bronze Member Username: FillyjonkPost Number: 13 Registered: Aug-08 | Rega's Danish distributor just forwarded me an explanation for the red stripes from Rega's chief engineer. He writes: "This is normal for a Florescent Display, as what the customer is seeing is the filament. The filament is very similar to that of the filament used in a valve or tube. It's also worth noting that when the line/mains supply is high, it can cause the filament to become brighter, and thus more obvious. The filament stays on, even when the display is off, because the display is "software" disabled via the microcontroller controlling the data to the display, and not by turning off the filament. Hope this helps. Best Regards. Terry." Which is comforting to know! As I understand his explanation, it's the nature of the Apollo's particular display technology in combination with an unusually high voltage from my mains supply that makes the stripes in my Apollo light up more brightly than they would otherwise do. Which would perhaps also seem to suggest that the stripes has no impact on sound quality as they're really always there, just more or less visible depending on the specific level of voltage from the mains supply. The stripes still affect the ability to turn my display dark, though, and even though it's not that troubling, it would be nice to be able to really turn it dark for those serene moments. Alternatively I'll just have to close my eyes! But could there perhaps be a way to reduce my mains voltage a tiny amount? Perhaps by using another power cable with an in-built adapter or something similar? Does something to that effect exist? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10867 Registered: Dec-04 | What does your voltage measure now? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3025 Registered: May-05 | Johannes, My Apollo doesn't do this. The explanation sounds reasonable. I recall a bunch of threads in the past about different CD players (not Rega, but NAD immediately comes to mind) having this 'problem.' People were concerned about it, but in the end nothing bad happened. Displays didn't fail and sound quality wasn't compromised. I think its more an annoyance than anything else. If the annoyance is acceptable or not depends on you. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10870 Registered: Dec-04 | Maybe 'let it go man' listen to some floyd, and grab a chick so the lines won't matter? That's my plan tonight, the lines are driving me to distraction. Tits help to cure that. |
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Bronze Member Username: FillyjonkPost Number: 14 Registered: Aug-08 | Very true. I'm letting it go as we speak and dance and read great advice on the internet! |
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