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Mike D. | I have been to several stores and now feel more confused than before. Everybody has a favorite which coincidentally is what they sell. (Surprise, Surprise) I was hoping to get some opinions, I am looking mostly for HT purposes and have the intentions of upgrading the electronics later. My budget is a max of 7K for a receiver and speaker package and I am working with space constraints so the integrated sub in 7001 is appealing but not a deal maker. Am I pointed in the right direction or way off course???????? |
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G-Man | Space constraints and you are looking at the Def Tech 7001's (130+ pounds each)? They are huge and cost about $3500 for a pair. I hope you have a humongous room for them. If you have a room that is closer to 15' x 20' or less, I would try a smaller model from Def Tech--if that is the way you want to go. Heck, if you like bipolar speakers with built-in self-powered subwoofers try getting 4 of the same Def Tech speakers along with the corresponding center channel. Or get 2 bigger ones and 2 smaller ones for the rear. With Def Tech, the choices you have are many. Of course, I hope you don't have cats. Def Techs (with their black speaker socks going down to the floor) are excellent scratching posts. I have seen friends come screaming to Def Tech for a hefty supply of replacement speaker socks. Speakers are a matter of taste. There are quite a few quality speakers to choose from. |
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Mike D | Actually the room I have is about 14 x 14 however when I finish my basement theatre room I will have a lot more space to fill. I have looked seiously at the Klipsch Reference series and the B&W CM series however both have left me wanting with sound quality and then there is the Sub. I have no good place to put it. I can always make things fit if need be I just hate to spend a lot of money and find out later I could have had something better for HT purposes or even worse for less $$$. (I still need a receiver and television) Besides it has taken a lot of flowers and back rubs to convince my wife this a good investment I would hate to pull back now!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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elitefan | Mike, Def Tech's are great speakers and I think you should listen to a less expensive model like the 2004 or 2006 for your mains. They will easily fill your space and you can then spend the neccessary money to get the rest of the Def Tech system and a good receiver to drive them. I would not go with the Denon 3803 however. This is a very bright receiver and not a good match at all with these speakers. Pioneer Elite, NAD, Rotel, Marantz or Harmon-Kardon would all work well with the Def Techs. J&R Music World is having a sale on the H/K's now [525 for $649 and 7200 for $1098]. I would check these out to see if they have the input capacity you need. These are very good units and perfect for any Def Tech. I am partial to the Elite line myself and the vsx45 or new vsx55 or even vsx53 would also be great combo but the prices on the H/K's would tilt me in that direction if they fit your input needs. |
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Mike D | I was looking very seriously at the 2002 series however they seemed a little weak in the bass arena and did seem a bit bright. However, I felt that the 7001 seemed to really fill itself out all around. Of course I have only demo'd these at Hi-Fi stores and they were hooked up to beafier receivers than I have been looking at. I was really hoping to cut corners on the receiver at this point and still enjoy a quality HT experience in hopes of possibly one day going to seperates or at the very least adding an external amplifier. I had heard that the H/K all though very nice was not very reliable? Is J&R Musice World a web store or a place? I've never heard of it. I'm very new to this game..... |
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G.DawG | Webstore...http://www.jandr.com/ |
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Hawk | Mike: I hate to make suggestions when I don't know your budget, but let me make a couple anyways. Elitefan has an excellent suggestion on the H/K 525--it is a very fine receiver. With your basement room at 14 x 14, you don't need anything as large as teh Def Techs. I would suggest a small sub/sat system like the JMlabs Sib/Cub. It is a dynamite combo with the H/K 525, and you can mount them directly to the walls to get them out of the way. The "Cub" subwoofer, it an 8" long throw type and the box is only about 12' x 12" It will work in your room. Check it out here: http://www.focal.tm.fr/gb/home/sib-cub/index.htm and here: http://audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=JMLSIBCUB5%2E1&product_name=SIB/CUB%205%2E1%20Home%20Theater%20Speaker%20System Good luck! |
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Max | Hello, Hey yes jandr is real and its authorized by H/K so you wont have to worry about the reliablity part, even though H/K's are very reliable. I mean if you look at the denon board almost every other post is"my denon is broke","getting no sound from denon",etc..etc...Not bashing denon but I am just saying that you dont really see that with H/K at all. I heard Def Techs are very good speakers and I heard they sound good on Yamaha receivers too. The choices are all up to you!!! |
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Max | Hey, So did you get the def techs or what? |
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Mike D | Not yet... My wife went to the store yesterday and saw the size of the center channel and rears. Who said size doen't matter? Anyway, I still am leaning that direction I'm just having a lot of trouble deciding on a receiver. Both the Denon and Yamaha receiver allow the function to operate to seperate rooms at the same time with seperate volume control which was a big selling feature for me however ultimately it is quality sound I am looking for not bell and whistles. |
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elitefan | Mike, If you settle on the Def Tech's do not get a Denon or Yamaha receiver. You could not choose 2 worse receivers to pair with Def Tech's. They need something more mellow like Elite, H/K, Marantz,NAD or Rotel. I had the Denon3803 with Def Techs [older mellower model] and it was really awful.Actually I would never recommend these 2 receivers with any speaker but especially with Def Techs. The decision is yours of course but I am speaking from experience about the Denon. |
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elitefan | Also if you like the Def Tech sound listen to their Studio Monitors. They are smaller bookshelfs with built in subs that are really kick butt speakers for their size and price. |
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Mike D | elitefan, I don't think I want to go to bookshelf speakers as ultimately I am looking to build a complete H/T setup and I do not think the small speakers will bring the big sound I am looking for. I am very open to the other receivers all though the H/K does not have what I am looking for I don't think. Which Elite are you thinking. The couple of reviews I have found have been very favorable for the 47tx but it is a pretty good jump in money.(1/2 again)Is it worth this if ultimately I am looking to add seperate amps and eventually a seperate processor????????????? I would also like to get Hawks thoughts on this as well I have a 7000.00 budget for speakers and receiver and dvd if there is money left over (otherwise I know what I am asking Santa for!!!!) |
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| I respectfully disagree with you in saying that Def Techs do not match up well with denon or yamaha receivers. I have a yamaha and my friend has a denon and we both have definitives. In my opinion the sound is incredible and I have a lot of experience listening to high quality equipment. I would be confident putting my home theater up against any home theater within reason. I would just listen between the denon and yamaha and make your choice from their as they are both great receivers. IMO i don't think you can go wrong. |
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elitefan | Mike, To bad that the H/K doesn,t have what you need. I love this unit but it doesn,t have enough inputs for me either. Sound quality is great though especially with Def Techs compared to what Yamaha and Denon sound like. The Elite I would look at is the new vsx55txi. I have seen it on a few mail order sights for under $1100 and local retailer price is $1250. The vsx53 would be a option too. Your budget gives you enough flexibility to listen to many lines of speakers and receivers so I would be intersted in knowing what other speaker lines are available in your area. I stand by my previous comments on Denon and Yamaha as someone who has had both brands with Def Tech speakers. Denon and Yamaha are feature laden to be sure but in the $1000-$3000 price range don't measure up to the brands I mentioned earlier.Yamaha especially has lost their way in producing good sounding receivers. My old Yamaha CA810 integrated amp[1978 model] blows away any Yamaha receiver in 2 channel that I have heard in the last 15 years or so. They are so caught up in their gimmicky dsp modes they have forgotten that most music is still listened to in 2 channel. I was the biggest Yamaha booster you could imagine back in the old days but now no way. |
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Max | Hey, Why do you guys dislike yamaha so much? I mean I love H/K and Nad too but I still beleive out of Denon,Onkyo and yamaha that yamaha takes the cake without question. Just look at the weight, hmm about 40lbs. for a 400$ yamaha, 400$onkyo or denon about 20lbs. Now I know forsure that weight does matter, better parts power,etc...And I highly doubt that all that weight comes from the DSP's that people are always bashing. I am not flaming with anybody particular its just that everywhere on this board you see people bashing Yammie, my question WHY, besides all the Dsp's? |
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elitefan | I dislike Yamaha for the reasons stated above; they don't sound as good as other brands by a long shot. I would take a Onkyo over a Yamaha any day and I have owned both. Why does my 25 year old Yamaha sound better than todays Yamaha? I say because they have lost focus on what's really important which is good sound quality. It's really that simple for me which is a shame cause I love their features and pricing and rec out selector etc. No $400 Yamaha weights anywhere near 40 pounds. |
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Mike D | OK so I took your advise and went over to my local Marantz dealer. I never even heard one, I gave them my budget and my previous Hi-Fi shopping experiences and was immediately steered in the direction of Nad and Arcam with Paradigm performance series speakers. (WOW) Very nice sounding stuff but who the hell is Arcam or Nad????? Good companies? Being a complete newbie I've never even heard of either. |
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Max | Hey, yeah it does its the rx-v1300, some sites have it weighing in at 40lbs and some have it around 35. It looks like a very nice receiver. So elitefan how are pioneer elites? |
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elitefan | Nad and Arcam are know for their high quality separates and are now making very high quality sounding receivers. If you can afford these brands and features meet your needs you can't do better. |
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elitefan | Max, According to Yamaha website the weights are: RXV1300-33lb RXV2300-33lb RXV740-25lb RVX3300-48lb Elite weights: VSX49-63lb VSX47-63lb VSX45-41.5lb VSX43-38.5lb Weight is not everything but Elites are heavier that the Yamaha price equivalents. Remember I am a former Yamaha lover so I have no ax to grind or anything like that. |
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Max | Hey, Hmm maybe I should look at some elites. How are they feature and durability wise? |
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G.DawG | You've never heard an Elite have you?If you had you would have bought one many, many months ago. |
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Max | Hey, is that so g-dawg? They do look pretty nice. Do you still like kenwood g-dawg? |
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G-Man | I would buy most Pioneer Elites over their comparable Kenwood products. I would buy NAD over Arcam if only for the reason I feel that Arcam's are rather over-priced for what you get. But audio salons have a tendency to push Arcam because Arcams are rarely sold to general consumer outlets, so they have little to no competition. Salon's like that :-). |
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elitefan | The comparable Kenwood to Elite would be the Sovereign series which are actually pretty decent units. Elites are better I think but at least Kenwood has made a serious attempt at a quality receiver for a change. G-Man is correct about Arcam. They are good but overpriced and for me lacking in inputs. As far as features etc on Elites I find they have plenty of inputs,good power reserves, good Motorola dsps, the same DA convertors as Rotel[ashai kasei or close to the correct spelling]and are very user friendly besides good sounding. I would not make the claim they are the best out there but for me the vsx45 is the best unit for my Monitor Audio system and budget. |
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G.DawG | My 6070 didnt even compare to my Pioneer Elite. If you listen to stereo music DO NOT get the 6070 its horrible. |
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G.DawG | When I first bought my 6070 I watched a lot of movies and didnt listen to music for a while. Then, about a month later, I hooked up my old Pioneer Elite (the VSX-05) to let my buddy listen to it cuz he was gonna buy it and it sounded so good to me!So I got rid of my 6070 and went and bought a Pioneer Elite VSX-43TX on eBay.ca and have never been happier.IMHO Kenwood isnt in the "higher end category with Pioneer Elite Marantz and NAD. Just to add: I was checking out a garage sale today and saw a NAD 216THX for 200$(cdn that 120$ to you!)I havent hooked it up yet but am very anctious too. |
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G-Man | Since the Def Tech 7001 have self-powered subwoofer sections almost any amplification over 60 watts (75 if you want to be very conservative) will drive their midrange and tweeters loud enough to make your ears bleed. The amp channels have very little work to do with these speakers. |
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Hawk | Mike and G-Man: I read in a British audio mag about 6 months ago that the Arcam 200 and the NAD 752 are really the same receiver, made in the same factory, same innards, etc. Unreal as the price differential is $400. Mike, you would be hard pressed to do better than Paradigm speakers driven by an NAD receiver that you heard. It is always startling to hear high quality gear and realize how much better it sounds than the usual stuff from Best Buy and Circuit City. NAD was started about 30 years ago as a British company, designed in the USA and Britain, but manufactured in China (originally Taiwan, but now on the mainland). Their stated objective was to bring audiophile sound to a mass market price. Consequently, they do tend to sound better than the usual mass market competition. And Paradigm has been a real strong speaker company that just keeps getting better all the time. I think it is one of the leading speaker companies in the world. |