Speaker Shopping
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1034 Registered: Feb-07 | I was at my local dealer's tonight for a quick listen. On my short list is Totem. My sales guys suggested Totem Mites as an "entry level" Totem speaker. Unfortunately they weren't hooked up for a quick audition, but we listened to the Totem Staffs instead (which he explained have the same drivers and crossovers, just a bigger cabinet). Therefore the Mites and Staffs sound similar (both easy to drive as well). Do you guys think this is a reasonable statement? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7038 Registered: Feb-05 | The way I understand it, it is a relatively reasonable statement. Frank works with Totem will have a better answer. I know that alot of folks aren't really fond of either and I think he spoke to why. At similar money the Rainmaker is a very popular speaker especially for folks with an eclectic musical palette. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3021 Registered: Sep-04 | Hmm, difficult one. The Mite is closest in character to the Sttaf, this is true. The Staff is a bit like a Mite with a bit of extra weight, but the Mite makes up for this with a bit more pace and rhythm. It's a difficult choice between the two in that respect actually. Personally, I think I prefer Mites. They're more enjoyable to listen to. The RainMaker is a very different kettle of fish. Once you put it on a medium/heavy stand, it's a similar price to the Sttaf. The major difference with the Rainmaker is that it's far more demanding of the electronics in front of it. If you don't have decent quality and a fair amount of power, the Rainmaker can come across rather matter of fact, a little distant and not particularly engaging, making the Mite and Sttaf look like ridiculously good value. If you have quality electronics on the front, then the Rainmaker makes both the Mite and Sttaf look like toys by comparison. So in answer to the original question, I think it's a fair comparison but don't expect the weight and scale of the Sttafs. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1035 Registered: Feb-07 | Excellent information! Thanks guys. I'm still really undecided on which route to go. One of the factors that is making my decision more complicated is that since these will be in my dining room, where I do not really do any "critical listening". Do I really need something such as Totems for secondary speakers? This is what I'm asking myself. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7042 Registered: Feb-05 | However if you do have something such as Totems, you can readily rotate them in and out of your main system for a change of pace that doesn't require an upgrade...just a thought. If that would never happen then yeah you are looking at overkill. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3026 Registered: Sep-04 | David, You probably don't actually need anything in the dining room. I'll bet you could probably just turn up the main system a bit and it would be perfectly adequate as background music. Now if that's not the case and you do a fair amount of entertaining or you use the dining room regularly, then you probably do actually need music in the room. Whether you need as good speakers as Mites is a different question, but if you're mainly using this system for background purposes and even for turning up occasionally and having some fun, then consider anything that's potentially good. And one speaker definitely to consier is the Dreamcatcher. It's a tiny monitor a touch smaller than the Mite. In my view it's a bit more fun too. Obviously, being so small means it more quickly runs into its limitations, but I've had Dreamcatchers doing amazing when driven properly with a decent amplifier. They're brilliant. (I'm a fan, you can tell!) Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1036 Registered: Feb-07 | We actually do a fair bit of entertaining (well, parties actually) so having that extra set of speakers in the dining room are nice to have. Sometimes we even crank 'em ;-) Something the Klipsch are good at, of course. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3028 Registered: Sep-04 | If you want it loud, both Mites and Dreamcatchers can go fairly loud if not LOUD! Push comes to shove, the Mites can probably go louder. Jeez Dave, you have a life? |
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Bronze Member Username: LamcamOrange County, CA USA Post Number: 82 Registered: Nov-07 | I listened to the Dreamcatchers and the Arros side by side, although they sound similar, the Arros won. But I ended up buying the Sttafs, they are easier to drive and easier to my ears. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1048 Registered: Feb-07 | Anyone ever heard the Kef IQ7? What are the characteristic Kef traits? I've never even seen one around these parts. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7102 Registered: Feb-05 | I think Gavin has some KEF IQ speakers and likes them very much....Gav. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1053 Registered: Feb-07 | Let's hear it, Gav. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3044 Registered: Sep-04 | KEF...no, not for me... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7103 Registered: Feb-05 | We know how you feel about them however everyones taste differs. My love of the Rega R5's (another of Frank's fav's) was confirmed last week now that they are part of a system with a Creek 4330 amp and modified Rotel cd player....they sound even better than they did in an all Rega system...I was speechless the whole time I listened. I haven't listened to those KEF's but have a hard time believing that they are that bad... |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1056 Registered: Feb-07 | What don't you like about them Frank? |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1174 Registered: Nov-06 | here I am.... sorry it took me so long to find this. :-) I have the iQ3 and love them. I have had them since the very end of december (bought them on the 29th or 30'th I think). Now that I have had them for going on 5 months, I am fairly confident about the sound they produce. I still find myself completely impressed by the overall coherance of the sound, and am constantly hearing new details in music that I have not listened to in quite some time. I truly believe that the dual concentric driver plays a huge part of this, as the speaker is both phase and time correct. Midrange is full and rich, really gives life to the husky instrument diana krall has. Same goes for a saxophone. My g/f plays the sax, so I am very familiar with the unamped sound. A "good" sax recording (to me), such as some of Candy Dulfer's earlier works are big and fat when called for, but clean and clear in the altissimo. This shows not only smooth and full performance, but good driver integration as well. On the bookshelves that I have, I use them in a 17' x 15' living room that is open to my kitchen, and I have bass performance that meets my needs quite well. The speakers are neither boomy nor sloppy. I find the bass to have excellent pitch and definition, especially when a walking bass line is being played (Diana Krall "Love Scenes... All or Nothing At All"). It is very easy to hear the individual bass notes, and follow. Treble performance and resolution is very good. You will be able to hear system improvements (and downgrades) and the changes it makes along the way. Swapping my Rotel CD player for the SA8001 made my system sound like a totally different kit. Details in certain CD's come through cleanly and clearly, like dampers in a piano, or valve action in a trumpet. But, the treble could be a tad smoother. I don't find this bothersome, and didn't even notice it until I compared the speakers to ones that were multiples of the price, and do not notice it during routine listening. This may become bothersome at high volume listening, which I do not really do. I have yet to make the speakers compress, as I do not play them loudly due to apartment living. They are not perfect as I said above. The treble could be a tad smoother, but I feel that the speakers are great just the way they are. You can't expect a $550 pair of speakers to sound like the B&W 802D (I listened to in direct comparison to these to establish a reference point because the store didn't have the KEF reference series) guess what... the iQ3 still sounds damn good to me. Frank does not care for KEF because he feels they are bright. I paired them with neutral / warm-ish equipment and love the result. oh... these may make kick-ar$e rock speakers as well. A well produced rock recording will blow you away. As I said, I don't listen loudly...but I'll listen 80-85dB when nobody is around. Not loud rock levels I know, but I think that the towers would be great for it if that is your cup o'tea from time to time} |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1175 Registered: Nov-06 | another thing that I forgot to mention about the kef speakers is that because of the unique driver design, they actually have quite a wide sweetspot. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1066 Registered: Feb-07 | Wow, that's a lot of great info. Thanks for that Gavin! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10392 Registered: Dec-04 | I heardthe IQ7's a while back when I was trying B&W 702's. The IQ7's are a pretty close looking pair, but thats about it. Kind of like some Paradigms, I think the better product lies lower in the line, Like the IQ3. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1176 Registered: Nov-06 | I have not heard the iQ7, so I can not pass judgment. The shop had the iQ5, which has slightly smaller drivers. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1067 Registered: Feb-07 | "I paired them with neutral / warm-ish equipment and love the result." So I'm guessing Rotel would not be a great match for Kef? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10393 Registered: Dec-04 | Dave, the Rotel doesn't have to be as bright as some seem to say, unless you find it so. I like the presentation and the build. I guess it is up to you. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1068 Registered: Feb-07 | I don't find the Rotel as bright as most people seem to think. When running it along my Bryston, though, I do find it louder. It must have a higher gain structure than the Brystons maybe? Because it's louder, I guess also it seems "brighter". Of course the Brystons sound better... much more bottom end. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1177 Registered: Nov-06 | I don't care for the sound of KEF and Rotel pairing... Might be they just aren't as warm as I like? That is always a possibility. Try it! That's the only way you will know for sure! |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1069 Registered: Feb-07 | This is true! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10395 Registered: Dec-04 | Rotel is rarely accused of being warm. |
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New member Username: CarolinabluesPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-08 | Great deal on the iQ3 right now. (Cosmetic Imperfection), but the price is very hard to beat. http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/KEFIQ3MPL/KEF/iQ3-2-Way-6.5-Bo okshelf-Speakers-in-Maple-Pair/1.html |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1179 Registered: Nov-06 | I like a warm lower midrange... something that I feel that Rotel does not provide. You win once again Nuck. Have one on me. It's 5 o'clock somewhere! |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1080 Registered: Feb-07 | I'm done speaker shopping now. I pulled the trigger on the Sttafs yesterday. I'm done spending money. For now. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7123 Registered: Feb-05 | Outstanding David...Enjoy! |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1081 Registered: Feb-07 | Think I'm gonna take your advice, Art, and rotate them into my main system, just for a change of pace. I think the Sttafs and Bryston monos will make an outstanding combination. I'll give them a try on the Rotel too and report back. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7124 Registered: Feb-05 | Oh yeah...I'd like to be there for that! |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1082 Registered: Feb-07 | My family is just going to have to bear with me this weekend. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10418 Registered: Dec-04 | Dave, don't they always? Great speaks, man, just don'try Van Halen, et al |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1083 Registered: Feb-07 | Funny guy, Nuck. But true. The boxes are sitting in my front hallway now, awaiting unpacking. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7126 Registered: Feb-05 | They wouldn't have to wait long at my house... ! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10419 Registered: Dec-04 | Mrs. Art would have had them opened by now... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7128 Registered: Feb-05 | She probably would...you know I just scored her an NAD C325BEE and some van den Hul interconnect...next will be replacing that Sony CD player...no hurry though she loves her system...the new amp will be her next Tuesday. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1084 Registered: Feb-07 | Got the Sttafs hooked up the main system. My wife is breaking them in watching Young and the Restless. Argh... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7131 Registered: Feb-05 | Double Argh....that's why my wife has her own system and both of mine are off limits. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1085 Registered: Feb-07 | Finally got to listen to them, like I mean *really* listen to them. Did a litlle Sublime, Godsmack, Micheal Buble, and now Queens of the Stone Age. Even went so far as to turn off the lights and sit in the dark in awe of the imaging. Very good purchase. My wife likes them too, I have her well accustomed to half decent gear now, and she can appreciate what sounds good. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10424 Registered: Dec-04 | David, how do you find the bass response on the sttaf's? I know that they place pretty easily, did you move them around at all? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1086 Registered: Feb-07 | I had to turn both my subs down to almost nil. Haven't really experimented with placement at all - I don't have a lot of room in my living room. I'm actually looking at mounting my plasma on the wall and replacing the TV stand with an audio cabinet so I can my buy more space. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1625 Registered: Jun-07 | David- Excellent purchase. Great speaker. How do you find them on a A/B against the RS6's? Differences? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1088 Registered: Feb-07 | Haven't had a chance, Nick. I moved the MA's down into my dining room for now. They're gonna be driven by the Rotel. I have a feeling this is going to be a much louder, edgier setup than the Bryston/Totem combo. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1628 Registered: Jun-07 | Cool, I have never heard MA/Rotel combo. I look forward to hear about it. You got two kick a $ $ systems that you can really enjoy music on David. Bravo. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1089 Registered: Feb-07 | Just fired up the Rotel/MA combo. It sounds totally different from the Bryston/Totem combo. I prefer the warmer sound of the latter. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1091 Registered: Feb-07 | Check out the Totems in the System Pics thread. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1094 Registered: Feb-07 | One thing I notice about the Sttafs are they are not exceptionally "loud" speakers. They seem relatively restrained and tame (albeit extremely clear) compared to my MA's. Could this be due to the lower sensistivity of the Sttafs? I think they're rated at 88 db, whereas the RS6 are somewhere around 91, I believe. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10426 Registered: Dec-04 | David, no surprise there, really. Yes the 3db is significant, but here a chance to look at speakers other spec, which is max spl. Totem calls the Sttaf 110, the MA's are 117(from memory). Thats a lot. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1634 Registered: Jun-07 | Yeah, that is a big difference. The MA's will go louder, and probably lower as well. Could be wrong on that second statement though. I just know the MA's go nice and low. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1095 Registered: Feb-07 | I believe you're right, Nick. They go a little bit lower. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10430 Registered: Dec-04 | The little driver in the Totem does it's job, and Totem knows how to reinforce small drivers with great cabinets, to be sure. But at some point, there are limits to be met. SPL is the one for the Sttaf's. Freaking beautiful cabinetry! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7153 Registered: Feb-05 | Anything over 90db is a waste of perfectly good ears anaways. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10435 Registered: Dec-04 | I agree, Art, BUT>>> the only high eff speakers that I have liked are from A/N, the K series in particular. They work best with other A/N gear, of course, but I liked the K series($$$) silver wired with Cary tubes. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7160 Registered: Feb-05 | Audio Note is very special gear, no doubt about it. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1100 Registered: Feb-07 | "Anything over 90db is a waste of perfectly good ears anaways." Not if you're going deaf. Which hopefully I'm not. What? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 7167 Registered: Feb-05 | Too much listening to big stereo's at over 90db...!!lol! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3051 Registered: Sep-04 | I used Audio Note E's with Naim and Chord Electronics amps for years. They loved the power even though they were incredibly efficient. Never really needed to turn up the volume much...! David, sod the imaging or the warmth - do the Sttafs engage you more or less than the MAs? That's the question that wants answering. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1115 Registered: Feb-07 | That's a good question, Frank, and right to the to the heart of the matter. I'm not sure yet. I like the spooky, transparent imaging of the Sttafs, as well as the clearness of them. But I honestly think I prefer the MA's. There's something more visceral about them. They seem to have more attack and slam to them. I may switch them around again (putting the MA's back in the living room, connected to the Brystons) and the Sttafs down in the dining room, connected to Rotel. I really, really don't like the MA/Rotel sound. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10448 Registered: Dec-04 | I heard a Classe/Totem setup with rainmakers that didn't work for me either...mix and match |
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