Advice please - speakers for sunroom
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New member Username: RashPost Number: 1 Registered: May-08 | Hi - new here, hoping for some expert opinions. I currently own a Sony DAV-BC150 home theater system (100W per channel + passive subwoofer). I have the left & right channels hooked into a speaker selector, which allows me to select between the main room (where the system is) and also a pair of oudoor deck speakers. Well, we got rid of the deck and in it's place is a 15X15 sunroom (currently being built). I would like to have a subwoofer and two small speakers in the sunroom. I don't need top-of-the line, but would like to be able to occasionally crank up Nirvana without distortion. The speakers will be mounted on the corners of one wall about 8 ft high. The sub will go in the corner of the opposite wall. I will use the existing deck speaker switch for the new speakers. So, several questions: - What recommendations do you have for speakers/sub? I am willing to spend up to $300 or so. - What do I do as far as the subwoofer? My speaker selector only has one input, which is currently left and right channel. How do I switch between the main system sub and the new sunroom sub? Should I just get an A/B selector switch? - If I go with Bose AM-3, that will solve the subwoofer issue mentioned above, but I'm wondering - since the main system has a separate subwoofer, will there be enough bass signal in just the left/right connection for the Bose bass module to put out decent bass? Thanks in advance. |
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Silver Member Username: Ustaad_hcPost Number: 629 Registered: Oct-06 |  |
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Bronze Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 50 Registered: Apr-08 | Given your stated preferences and budget, i think ANYTHING that comes in at an acceptable price will be sufficient for your needs. You shouldn't need any "expert opinion". Unless you want to be told you need a bigger budget. In all seriousness, go to Radio Shack or perhaps Best Buy. They should have some very inexpensive options. Don't expect too much though. Especially don't expect to "crank up Nirvana without distortion." perhaps the used market will allow you to stretch that budget to some degree. To answer your specific questions.... #1 - Perhaps a used, lowest end, Paradigm or Energy speaker might fit the bill. #2 - I know nothing of speaker selectors and multizone what not. Get a subwoofer with both in and out speaker terminals. You can then route the audio to the sub, it will perform the needed crossover, and pass along the rest of the audio to the speakers. #3 - Not sure about that means.... "Enough bass left".... Not sure how you have things set-up, where is the crossover happening etc... In the end, it sounds like you dont have very high expectations, and you are not a very discerning listener, which is VERY rare here. You'll most likely be happy with literally anything that is the right price for you. |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1206 Registered: Apr-06 | "What do I do as far as the subwoofer?" That is going to be the golden question. In all likelihood, the R/L speaker output on your receiver is not putting out a full range signal. That means if you want bass out in the sunroom, and you want to use the HTIB receiver, you're probably going to need another speaker selector, and either another passive subwoofer, or a subwoofer with speaker level inputs. In either case, I can't really see that option being of exceptional quality, even for a casual listener, not to mention what other problems that might present you. As such, I'd personally suggest getting a second, separate system in your sunroom. And FWIW, even at 300 bucks, there are options. A decent low end stereo receiver runs about 100 bucks; a halfway decent pair of bookshelf speakers runs 50-100 bucks. Get a cheap CD player to round it out, and you'll have something that'll make pretty good music. |
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New member Username: RashPost Number: 2 Registered: May-08 | Thanks for the replies. I think i've decided that the Sony DAV-BC150 is crap, so I'm moving it to the new additions extra bedroom/playroom. I plan on replacing it with a good quality receiver, and eventually good speakers. Budget for the receiver is max $500, and that's pushing it (we gotta furnish this add-on you know) Any suggestions? I've been looking at the Onkyo 605/606, but have concerns about heat - it will be in an entertainment unit with a glass-face door. For the sunroom, I'm looking at two-pair (one pair per opposing wall) of on-wall speakers with decent bass response connected to the new reciever in the main room with an impedance matching volume control (my speaker selector is unfortunately not impedance matching). If the bass is good enough, I won't worry about the subwoofer. If it's not, I'll get a separate system for the sunroom. Was looking at the Polk Atrium 45 or 55, but the 45 only has a 4 inch woofer, and the 55 are like $300/pair, and I want two pair. Any suggestions? |
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Bronze Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 58 Registered: Apr-08 | My advice is to tool around Audiogon and see what you can source on the second hand market. You can basically double the performance of your budget it you buy used. Why not move the Sony out to the sunroom and buy a PAIR of speakers (maybe a sub as well) to go with it. By the way, I would recommend just getting two nicer speakers than 4 cheaper ones. Why do you want 4 speakers? Is there a particular reason? Then source the new receiver for your HT/Living Room, where you already have speakers/sub it sounds like. |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1209 Registered: Apr-06 | I'd re-evaluate where you stand currently Rich. You've got an HTIB system which is pretty much designed to work together to get anything approaching decent performance. Splitting it up is more than likely a bad idea. If you're unhappy with the performance of the Sony system, by all means move it to the sun room where it won't be used as much, or sell it off. In either case, you'd be best served by starting fresh if you do choose to get a new system. |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1210 Registered: Apr-06 | As a side note, if you're concerned about heat put off by a receiver, you can look into receivers that utilize class d amplifiers. However, at this point, I'd suggest doing some reading and searching around to get an idea of what is out there. As far as receivers go, the Onkyo you mentioned is a respectable choice, and about as future proof as you can get at this point. As far as speakers go, there are numerous brands which offer products in your price bracket, including Klipsch, Polk, Energy, Athena, PSB, Insignia, etc. Look around, and listen a bit. |
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New member Username: RashPost Number: 3 Registered: May-08 | Okay, I'll keep the Sony receiver and speakers together and move the whole thing to the playroom. That means I'll need a whole new system in the living room - I'll do some more research on that. I'll also just buy a nice pair of speakers for the sunroom, run them to an in-wall source switcher - one source will be the living room system, and the second souce terminal will run to a banana plug wall plate so that if I want to get a second system later for the sunroom I can easily connect it. Thanks for all the info and advice - time to do some research. I just mentioned to my wife that I can get a nice new system for about $850 (Onkyo 908) ans she said "hey that's cheap", so I think my budget just wnet up! |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 974 Registered: Feb-07 | Well played Rich. We all know $850 really means 1k. Before taxes. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 975 Registered: Feb-07 | So for your living room are you looking at an HT setup or 2 channel? |
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Bronze Member Username: PcstocktonPost Number: 60 Registered: Apr-08 | Rich, Perfect. Now you know what you want to achieve, and the necessary but not unneeded make steps to get you there. I have always found it much better sounding, easier and flexible to not try to incorporate into one system. For example I would rather have a really inexpensive CD player on its own in your sunroom, than try to route your main system out there in some fashion. Same goes for trying to integrate a HT and 2 channel system. They are best left separate whenever possible. You are on the right path. And many of the people in here will give you much good advise. Combine that with a decent budget, a good hifi dealer (NOT A BIG BOX STORE), and a healthy dose of common sense and skepticism, and you will be in musical heaven. |
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New member Username: RashPost Number: 4 Registered: May-08 | Living room will be HT, sunroom 2 channel. Now that I'm thinking about it, we plan on adding a patio around the addition eventually, thus I am running speaker wire through the foundation and into the sunroom for that. I think my new plan is this: - Living room: stand alone (no connection to other rooms) home theater. - Sunroom: 2-channel receiver connected to in-wall banana plug terminal for L & R channel input. Banana plug terminal wired to in-wall speaker selecter. Speaker selector connected to two pair of speakers - sunroom and patio (rock speakers), with a volume control outside for the patio speakers. This accomplishes several things: - I can leave the Sony HTIB as is for now and take my time reseaching a new system - I can use any old boombox for now and input it to the sunroom and patio speakers through the wall input and again take my time researching a system for out there. - If I want more bass in the sunroom, I can just add a subwoofer to the system out there. I'll probably change my mind tomorrow, but for now that's what I'm doing. I really needed to decide on the setup rather than the specific equipment right now so I can wire all the rooms and wall plates before the sheet rock goes in next week. I'm looking forward to taking my time researching the euipment, and I'm sure I'll use this site alot during that process. thanks everyone for you expertise and advice. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 977 Registered: Feb-07 | That sounds like a solid plan Rich. For your 2 channel rig in your sunroom. You may not even need a speaker selector. If you buy a receiver with A/B functionality, you can have the A speakers in the sunroom, and the B speakers out on the patio. |
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New member Username: RashPost Number: 5 Registered: May-08 | "For your 2 channel rig in your sunroom. You may not even need a speaker selector. If you buy a receiver with A/B functionality, you can have the A speakers in the sunroom, and the B speakers out on the patio." Doh! Why didn't I think of that? Question - with A/B functionality, can you run both A and B together? There may be times whe I want both the patio and the deck speakers on simultaneously. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 978 Registered: Feb-07 | Generally, yes. You don't even necessarily need something horribly expensive for the sunroom. I have a Yamaha RX497 in my gym, and it's a great little receiver, although you have to be careful which speakers you match it with. http://www.yamaha.ca/av/stereocomp/RX497.jsp Another option is the Outlaw RR2150. I've never heard it, but I've read lots of good things about, and I have own other Outlaw gear. Good outfit... |
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New member Username: RashPost Number: 6 Registered: May-08 | So I'm looking into 2-channel receivers, and none of them have a subwoofer output. I read something about hooking up a subwwoofer in parallel to the speakers through the main speaker output on the receiver. Does that degrade audio quality at all? Would I be better just buying a HT reciever? Are HT recievers as good for music as 2 channel recievers? For example, Onkyo 8522 vs Onkyo 505/506? (comparable in price) |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 980 Registered: Feb-07 | The Yamaha 2 channel receivers (the RX line) have sub outs. |
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New member Username: RashPost Number: 7 Registered: May-08 | If I'm going to eventually upgrade the HT in the living room and spend close to $1000, I want to keep the budget for the stereo reciever in the $250 range (I still have to buy speakers). Preferably 75-100 watt/channel. The Yamaha you mentioned is very nice, but about $350. The Onkyo 8522 is about $250. Any thoughts on the parallel connection and/ or the HT vs. 2-channel reciever comparison for music? thanks for all your help. |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1214 Registered: Apr-06 | The Harman Kardon 3385 is a respectable two channel receiver, and can be had for $200 at www.jr.com "Any thoughts on the parallel connection" You won't be making a parallel connection. Presuming you buy a subwoofer with speaker level inputs, you connect the subwoofer to the receiver via the R/L speaker output on the receiver, and then connect the speakers to the subwoofer. The subwoofer performs the filtering for you, and shouldn't significantly degrade the sound (presuming you don't get a POS sub). "HT vs. 2-channel reciever comparison for music? " Given that more of your money is going into the two channels in a stereo receiver than it is a surround sound receiver, it would make some sense that when the two are at the same price, the stereo receiver will be superior in two channel performance. |
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New member Username: RashPost Number: 8 Registered: May-08 | Few more questions: - in the scenario you mentioned, does the subwoofer have the crossover adjustment or is it automatic? - Also, if there IS an sub-out jack on the receiver (RCA type - like the yamaha), does the receiver have the crossover adjustment ability? I keep reading about crossover adjustment being necessary but I'm unclear on where/how it's done. - And finally, does the presence of an RCA sub-out on the receiver mean you need an active or passive subwoofer? Thanks so much. |
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New member Username: RashPost Number: 9 Registered: May-08 | I think i found most of the answers here: http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-hpNOsaXlWV5/reviews/20031007/bass_management .html?page=2 Still wondering about the passive/active thing. For instance - does the yamaha unit's sub-output require an active or passive subwoofer? |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1215 Registered: Apr-06 | "subwoofer have the crossover adjustment " Correct "Also, if there IS an sub-out jack on the receiver (RCA type - like the yamaha), does the receiver have the crossover adjustment ability?" Most stereo receivers do NOT have crossover adjustment capability (or a crossover at all for that matter). They depend on the subwoofer for that. The only one that does to my knowledge is the Outlaw stereo receiver. "And finally, does the presence of an RCA sub-out on the receiver mean you need an active or passive subwoofer?" Active. |
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New member Username: RashPost Number: 10 Registered: May-08 | Does a 2-channel reciever reduce the base signal to the main speakers when using the sub the way a home theater reciever does? |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1216 Registered: Apr-06 | Generally not. Both the main speakers and the subwoofer receive a full range signal. However, if you use a subwoofer with speaker line inputs and outputs, it can perform that filtering for you. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 983 Registered: Feb-07 | Some receivers do. The Yamaha line doesn't, the Outlaw RR2150 I mentioned earlier does. |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1217 Registered: Apr-06 | The Outlaw is the only stereo receiver that offers bass management AFAIK. |
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Bronze Member Username: RashPost Number: 11 Registered: May-08 | "Generally not. Both the main speakers and the subwoofer receive a full range signal. However, if you use a subwoofer with speaker line inputs and outputs, it can perform that filtering for you." So, if i use the sub-out on the yamaha reciever, it doesn't affect the bass level of the main speakers, correct? The reason I ask is that I will be using the A speakres for the sunroom with the sub, and the B speaker output for the patio. The patio will not have a subwoofer ,so I need the B speakers to retain the full bass level. If the subwoofer reduces the signal to the main speakers, that's fine for the A speakers since they're in the same room as the sub, but not the B speakers since they're outside on the patio. I suppose I can just use a speaker level sub attached to the A speakers, but I don't want to do that if it's a leseer quslity attachment than using a sub-out. |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1218 Registered: Apr-06 | "So, if i use the sub-out on the yamaha reciever, it doesn't affect the bass level of the main speakers, correct?" Correct. "I suppose I can just use a speaker level sub attached to the A speakers, but I don't want to do that if it's a leseer quslity attachment than using a sub-out." I suspect you'd be hard pressed to notice a difference in quality between the two connection types. |
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Bronze Member Username: RashPost Number: 12 Registered: May-08 | Awesome. Thanks everyone for the great info. I just bought an Onkyo 8522 from Circuit City online for $225. (10% off coupon code ends tonight). I figure I can always return it if i decide on something different. had to jump on that price. Now the speakers... that'll take time. Anyone ever heard of OutdoorSpeakerDepot.com? All the reviews on their patio speakers are fantastic. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 987 Registered: Feb-07 | Yeah, I've browsed that website before. The outdoor subwoofers are pretty neat. I think you need one of those, Rich ;-) |
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Bronze Member Username: RashPost Number: 13 Registered: May-08 | Well, the outdoor subwoofers are passive, so I'd also need an amplifier. Maybe down the road, but I'm pushing it as it is with the better half.  |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10313 Registered: Dec-04 | Good call, man. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 989 Registered: Feb-07 | I bought a set of Polk outdoor speakers I bought last year for dirt cheap. They actually sound pretty good, much better than my Sonance outdoor speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: RashPost Number: 14 Registered: May-08 | Okay, so here's my next situation and question: I have wired two walls in the sunroom for speakers - one is the wall where the reciever and eventual subwoofer will be. The other is the wall directly across the room. On the first wall I have plenty of room to hang a decent size speaker - something with a 6.5 woofer or so. The opposite wall is mostly windows, so there is only a little room for speakers - cube speakers would be perfect; largest possible speakers would be maybe 5.25 woofer at most - anything larger starts to block the window, and will most likely cast a shadow. So, I would like some good sound separation and good bass. If I get something like Polk Atrium 55 for 1st wall, I get decent bass, but no separation, even with a subwoofer (sub will be on same side of room). Bose Acoustimass 3 or 5 would fit perfectly and provide the separation, but I've read some bad things about Bose and am concerned that they won't do well with moderate-to-high volume rock and roll. I do plan to go listen to the Bose, but it always sounds different in the store vs. home. Thoughts? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 10316 Registered: Dec-04 | I think you should listen to Orb speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: RashPost Number: 15 Registered: May-08 | "I think you should listen to Orb speakers." They look great, but $550. Bose are $200. Are that THAT much better? |
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