Newbie here who needs some help putting together a system for mostly music listening and some movies. I have a budget of about $3,200, and plan to start out with two front speakers, a receiver or amplifier, and a CD player. Later when I have some additional cash, I would like to get a center speaker, two surrounds, and possibly a subwoofer. (I also have a 50 inch panasonic plasma and playstation 3).
So I'm thinking that I should allocate my money roughly as $2,000 for speakers, $800 for receiver, and whatever's left for CD player.
My listening room is about 18 x 20. My musical tastes are all over the board but I do not need earth-shattering bass. I realize that I need to listen to speakers myself to make a selection, but if anybody could suggest a few different options so that I could narrow it down, that would be great. I also need advice on how to choose a receiver. Thanks in advance!
Whats up J.T welcome to the forum. Do you have any local audio dealers near you? If so, what do they carry, and do you have access to audition stuff there? If your going to be listening to music majority of the time, I would recommend a full two channel system. 800 dollars will not buy you a Surround receiver that does well at two channel material. 800 dollars can get you a decent two channel Integrated amp however. 2,000 dollars can really get you a nice pair of speakers. If it were me I would spend a little less on the two speakers and allocate more toward the CD player and the Amp. What brands does your local dealer carry?
Nick, thanks for the response. I haven't really done much checking with local dealers but plan to do so this weekend. But I live in a big city (Washington, D.C.), so I'm assuming that I should be able to find pretty much anything. What specific brands of all of the above do you like? Thanks again.
2k budget for speakers will get you a pretty good pair, provided you just want to stick to 2 channel for now.
Depending on what your dealer carries, of course, I'd look at the usual suspects... Paradigm, PSB, Klipsch and of course Monitor Audio. If you want a really good 2 channel rig, I'd also look at Totem.
David, thanks for the response. If I ultimately want to move to a 5 speaker surround sound system in about six months without totally breaking the bank, does that affect the analysis?
Is it 2,000 for all 5 channels and a sub, just 5 channels, or just to start you off with the front two main speakers? I like David's selection. There is so many speaker companies. The best way to start is to find a dealer that treats you well, gives u a good deal, good advice and then go from there. For Home Theater I have owned and enjoyed Paradigm. If you want to kick it up for music though, nothing less than Paradigms Studio series. Thats the thing, you need a plan. Your plan is to start with a two channel system, and move it into a 5.1 system. That is hard to do. Especially when you are trying to have both in one system. If you have to have one system for both, you need a very very good AVR, that is capable of doing two channel listening at a level you can enjoy. That means nothing less than Onkyo Integra, NAD, ROTEL, ARCAM, B&K. Companies that build AVR's with two channel listening in mind. So right away there goes your 800 dollars for budget on a AVR. See where I am going with this? This needs to be planned out before worrying about Brand names. We look forward to getting more info from you. Cheers.
Nick, thanks for the response. As far as a high-end AVR of the type you mention, where can I find value and how much do you think I should count on spending?
Joshua, Having a budget is an excellent first step. Like everything however, be prepared to exceed it once you start listening to gear. Do not listen to equipment which you know you cannot afford, it could make it feel like you are "settling" when reality kicks in. Whatever you buy will sound great to you if you put in the time to do it right.
What is it in music you are listening for?
What in music excites you, Piano, female vocals, guitar riffs, Jazz quartet, sax?
Do you have a reference what sounds good?
Do you listen to live music?
I will offer that if you are able to get a dealer to let you hear a $3K 2 channel system, even for movies not just music, then let you listen to a $3K 5.1 system you may re-think the need to move beyond the 2 channel system any time soon.
This should be fun for you, so do yourself a favor and stay away from the big box store's like Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. Go to the audiophile shops. Make sure to listen to demo, consignment, or used gear.
Trust your ears and nothing else, unless...
you get a dealer that takes the time to talk to you and find out what your interests are and perhaps draws out of you some of the information I asked about above. You will have the best chance of getting the best service on a week day afternoon, not on a Saturday afternoon.
Josh now that I think about it, there is a Onkyo AVR that does quit well for music that can be had for around 800. I am just throwing it out there. But like Mike said, once you hear some good two channel systems, you may not want to turn down the 5.1 road.
For starters, I would head out to Soundworks in Kensington, MD on Connecticut Ave. They've got the largest selection of high and mid end gear I've seen in the area (NHT, Era, Paradigm, Energy, Totem, Monitor Audio, Wilson Audio, Vandersteen, NAD, Parasound, etc etc, and the staff is reasonably helpful without being pushy in my experience. If nothing else, you'll get a pretty solid idea of what is out there.
"So I'm thinking that I should allocate my money roughly as $2,000 for speakers, $800 for receiver, and whatever's left for CD player."
I wouldn't make any specific plans. Just go in with an open mind, and listen at this point.
"I also need advice on how to choose a receiver."
A good power supply is always beneficial soundwise (weight for the amount of power its outputting is a reasonable indicator of this), as are support for goodies like HDMI repeater 1.3 architecture.
Thanks for all of the helpful responses. I am definitely going to check out Soundworks.
I hate to reveal my ignorance but I have a very basic question: if I start with a solid pair of speakers that aren't particularly hard to drive, and I am comparing a decent Onkyo receiver (say around $700) with a more expensive NAD or ARCAM, where (i.e what type of music, conditions, volume) am I going to hear the difference most?
I am in the process of building two separate systems, one for music and the other for home theater. Obviously the HT can have lesser quality components, though I am still going with well respected names in audio circles. Marantz SR-5002 likely for my receiver, Monitor Audio for speakers.
You can get a Marantz for under $800. I know that people are saying you need to buy Arcam/NAD/Cambridge/Rotel at the very least but I always thought Marantz was well respected in audio circles, even with their HT stuff. They are probably the brand that's right below those other names, and can even compete with them. Maybe I am wrong. I mean, I wouldn't expect an $800 Marantz to be as good as a $1,200 model from those other brands, but you can always spend more to get better quality. At some point you need to set some limits and determine what model is the bare minimum that'll meet your needs. Of course, you may not want to settle for the bare minimum. I wouldn't consider anything less than Marantz, Denon, Harman/Kardon, or Onkyo.
Eventually having two separate systems, one for audio only, seems like the best option to me. Depends how you want to use your systems. Because I already have an audio only system which I plan to upgrade over time, any HT I buy will not be for critical music listening. It'll be for TV, movies, and watching some concert DVDs, and for those I would hope a $700 receiver is at least adequate. Even for music I would think it wouldn't be horrible. At the very least I'll do some 5.1 SACD listening.
Anyways, I've been looking at my options for the last half year or so, and this was the decision I made for my HT. It's just my personal opinion though, and I'm sure others disagree. Buy the best you can afford, or slightly more. If it's $1,200 an up for a receiver, more power to you. If not, then consider what you will use the system for and if you can live with the compromises. A receiver can always be upgraded when you have more funds at your disposal.
Dan - thanks for the response. As I think about it more, having two different systems makes a lot of sense. Plus I live in a condo now and am hoping to buy a house in a few years so maybe I just work on my HT system now and wait until I have more space for a high-end audio only system. Given that my living room (where my TV is) is not all that big, I may even be able to get away with very solid bookshelf speakers, and put them on stands. How did you come to choose Monitor Audio for your HT speakers, what do you like about them, and how much are they? Thanks again.
Here's another thing to consider - if you don't need the newest features and want to get into NAD at a cheap price, they actually released new versions of their receivers recently. The old versions (eg. T754, T744) are now selling at half price. A T754 can be had for about $500. A few months ago it would have cost you over $1,000.
Might be an option. I know NAD had some humming problems on some of their units. I don't think it affected their receivers, but you'll want to double check first before you buy.
I listened to many speakers. The Monitor Audio were simply, IMO, the best value. I listened to Paradigm and Energy (granted their lowest end versions, but every brand I heard was in that $ range) and those simply weren't very smooth. I listened to Mirage and they use some sort of a different tweeter technology or something. It just didn't sound right, like the highs were too separated from the rest of the music. Tannoy's Mercury line was nice but is now discontinued and you probably can't buy it any longer.
I bet Wharefedale Diamond 9 would be a good choice. I heard the 9.2 bookshelf model and it was great. Same with the B&W 685. Both were nice and smooth and both seem to be well received. I also heard a Mordaunt Short speaker set which was nice. Just goes to show there are other options, and while I preferred the Monitor Audios you might prefer the B&W or something else.
What I like about Monitor Audio is that they seem to offer the best value. They are smooth, detailed, look great to boot, and are very reasonably priced. I will likely buy the Bronze series, but on your budget you could probably get into the gorgeous Silver line.
I've never been to Soundworks but it seems like they have a great selection and would be the best place to start. You'll have the ability to compare many models all in one spot. Go on a weekday morning or afternoon when they won't be as busy as they would probably been in the evening or on the weekend. Bring your own music and take some time to listen to what they offer.
The saying goes that so long as the amplifier is of sufficient quality (low distortion, gobs of current/power, high damping factor (low output impedance), flat frequency response, etc, etc), and is capable of driving the loudspeaker of your choice to the volume of your choice without clipping, then there *shouldn't* be any real difference in sound between them.
Unfortunately in the real world, a good number of amplifiers probably don't meet the "sufficient quality" mark. Compounding this problem is that the spec sheet of most amplifiers contains little useful information. As a simple example, telling me how an amplifier performs into a static 8 ohm load tells me next to nothing of how it will handle a dynamic loudspeaker with an impedance between 3 and 50 ohms. Things like damping factors and slew rates tend to be ignored completely. Given this, while two amplifiers superficially spec'ed the same might be able to make a loudspeaker put out sound, one might make the loudspeaker sound like garbage, and the other might make it sound like a dream.
Keep in mind, all of this pretty much ignores the complexity of rating how difficult a loudspeaker is to drive. There is much more than "4 ohms" "6 ohms" and "8 ohms". An impedance plot and phase angle plot will give you an idea of how hard a speaker is to drive (the flatter the impedance curve, the better; if you don't have a lot of current at your disposal, higher impedance is better; you want relatively low phase angles). However, you're still left with the conundrum of not knowing whether a given amplifier will work well with the speaker, as noted above, the specs really don't say that much.
Of course there is a simple way to bypass all of the technical garbage, and that is simply to listen. As far as for what to listen for, all that can really be said is you'll know when you hear it. The sound might get harsh; it might get loose; the amp might go into protection; it can sound thin and bright. However, a good rule of thumb to keep in mind is this: if you can forget you're listening to a stereo system and just start tapping your toes, maybe sing along, etc, you've got a good system in front of you.
Update: I went to Soundworks in Kensington, Maryland, and listened to some Paradigm Studio 60s, which I really like. Does anybody have any suggestions for other speakers in that price range (less than $2,000 for the pair) that I should also check out before making a decision? I also listed to some Totems (forget which ones), which I did not like as much.
Also, the guy was suggesting putting the Studio 60s with a Marantz SR7002 receiver -- any thoughts on this combination? Thanks in advance.