Heavy metal amp?
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New member Username: HeavymetalPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-04 | New to this and am trying to decide whether or not to get an arcam A85 or a rotel RA 1070. I mostly listen to 80's metal.....was thinking about pairing the rotel up with an nad c521bee and a pair of paradigm studio 40's v2 or v3 (btw anyone have any advice on which versions are better v2 or v3 for this combo? Am I going in the right direction?) My budget is about 2k for good used gear. Thanks alot in advance  |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 395 Registered: Dec-03 | to me the amps aren't that big a deal it's the speakers. for heavy metal i would not buy a bookshelf. i would get a floor stander with at least a 10" driver and very good power handling. personally i would go for a large 3-way or 4-way with a 12" driver.maybe like an older jbl or even cerwin vega.with like 200-250w power handling and a 150-200 watt a channel 2 channel amp.and rock the house. to me if you get just about any bookshelf and try to jam out some havy metal at very loud levels you will blow them up and wish you got something bigger.trust me i've been through that. another allternative that i did back in the day of rocking was i went to a pro audio gear place like a dj center and bought some yamaha dj speakers. these things had 15" drivers with a bullet tweeter and were a 3-way design that took some pounding and came back to live another day.i still have um! and they weren't that expensive.plus were made for jammin! now if you want to go that route i would get your amp and cd player take it to the shop and ask them if you can hook it to up to a few pairs and rock the place to find the ones you like. good hunting, glad to see theirs still some heavy metal fans around! |
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Silver Member Username: Project6Post Number: 633 Registered: Dec-03 | Kegger is spot on with the bookshelves. You're just not going to be able to rock out. You may want to think in terms of hornloaded high effeciency speakers in the areas of Klipsch. The paradigm studios are well mannered, so to speak. |
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New member Username: HeavymetalPost Number: 3 Registered: Jun-04 | Thanks for the input guys....the studio's get rave reviews but just didn't seem quite what I was looking for,not big enough or something...maybe the 100v3's but then I would have no amp to push them with I am not real clear on what high effeciency means or how the db ratings of the speakers themselves relate to an amp? Does the Rotel RA 1070 sound like a good start in terms of power/musicality? Thanks alot, Mike |
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Noddin0ff Unregistered guest | Since when does 80's metal and musicallity show up in the same forum? I've got some studio 20's. I'd have to aggree, they are a bit refined for my few 80's holdout cd's (Scorpion, Def L) The don't quite give those 80's sonic chords all that lush power they should have. Leads and vocals are great though. If you like the metallic edge on the guitar they are good. If you desire the reach through your ribcage grind, maybe not noddin0ff |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 400 Registered: Dec-03 | basically without trying to get to technical the efficency rating on speakers means they will put out that much sound level per watt input to them. so basically a speaker with 86db efficency will not be as loud as a speaker that has 91db efficency when you put the same amount of power in them. the rotel you mention should be fine with a speaker of say 90db efficency or higher to get plenty of volume. as berny mentioned the klipsch are known for their high efficency and power handling also likewise for jbl just make sure you look for them or others with at least a 10" driver I.M.O. so you get that good heavy metal kick. |
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swampcat Unregistered guest | I use Adcom amps and Klipsch speakers for hard rock from 70's. Had cerwin vega! for years, also good . Klipsch Much better speaker, But Vegas! handle alot more power. Driving Klipsch w/200 wpc dont need much more. Both vega's and klipsch have SPL ratings @ 95db-102db depending on models. |
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New member Username: HeavymetalPost Number: 4 Registered: Jun-04 | Noddinoff....not qiute sure what you mean by musicality/80's metal being in the same forum but I suspect it's a fun dig or maybe I'm using the term musicality incorrectly? Anyway,reach through the ribcage is what I'm looking for soundwise...thrash metal may have been a better term.....highly distorted thumping guitars,ect,Overkill,Testament,but Queensryche is also one of my favorite bands from that era and at times their music will have alot going on especially on the slower tracks .....but my listening will be mixed so I'm looking for a well rounded speaker with mostly metal in mind (except when The girlfriend is listening) then its Nelly furtado and the likes but I would like her to be moved as well as she's never heard a good system and thinks 2k+ for a used system is insane! But if I were picturing a larger version of a crappy bookshelf system I probably would too LOL. Anyway I think I'm gonna go with the Rotel Ra 1070 and shop for some other speakers than instead of the paradigm studio 40's. Thanks for the info on the DB levels Kegger it helps alot but I've noticed on the paradigm site they will have a set of speakers with a db rating split like 88/91 can you tell me what that means? Thanks again.......Metal Still Rulz! Mike |
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New member Username: HeavymetalPost Number: 5 Registered: Jun-04 | Berny.....its funny you said that... I originally was thinking about horn loaded speakers mainly because I remember playing clubs and during intermissions or when no band was on they would crank stuff out on those horn loaded monitors or whatever and it would make you wanna put you're head through the wall....it was just so in you're face! I remember thinking I want that sound in my ear,all the time LOL.....Going to look for some Klipsch speakers now ....... Mike |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 404 Registered: Dec-03 | yo mike it really sounds to me by the music you describe that you listen too and your girlfriend that you are giving me a vision of a certain speaker. i think it would be perfect for you they sound great and rock they are also 92db efficency. because it really sounds like your describing jbl more than klipsch. do a search for jbl s-312be you should still be able to get some and they are beautiful also. now their are some newer jbl version II of these they aren't as good trust me. they would say jbl s 312 II don't look at those. let me know what you think! |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 405 Registered: Dec-03 | hey i got a cd for yu too when you get your system! if you don't allready have it that is! "PRONG" .......(cleansing) that album loves to be played loud. |
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New member Username: HeavymetalPost Number: 6 Registered: Jun-04 | Hey kegger...was just floating around ebay.....gonna check those jbl's out and see if I can get a pair are they older? I was wondering....I've heard alot of good things about older speakers...I guess I assumed that with technology and all newer was better but what I've been reading for the last few weeks or so seems to be painting a different picture? Probably a broad subject but any knowledge would be welcomed. Mike |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 406 Registered: Dec-03 | they aren't that old maybe 5 years. do a google search you can still find new ones. their were different models in that series but the s-312's were the best in my oppinion. they are a tall 3-way with a gold 12" driver and gold midrange with a titanium tweeter.they look great! the s-312be is the beach colored version that look the best. |
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New member Username: HeavymetalPost Number: 7 Registered: Jun-04 | Thanks kegger....would love to hear it...tell you the truth I dont think I've heard the whole album or at least not for some years.....some old friends of mine were into prong and has probably been hangout background music at some point or another but there was so much good metal coming out back then it was hard to keep up with everybody...over the last 6 years I've bought and sold collectable compact discs and have discovered and am still digging up great metal bands from the 80's early 90's that just got lost in the shuffle or overshadowed by the Metal Giants like Metallica, Maiden,Priest,ect..so its not just the same old Metallica Kill em all or Feel the fire (Overkill) or Maiden stuff played to death....been lots of fun and really exciting especially when you find a diamond in the rough that you never heard..... have been able to rediscover a style of music that I grew up with and (by todays Metal standards especially) IMO is second to none. Any good metal is definitly welcomed here... There's the bleep bleep in my e-mail again lol...ttys. Mike |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 407 Registered: Dec-03 | hey their is a pair of s312 on ebay the black version but it is the original s312 none the less. now these are fairly heavy speakers before you bid on some you should find out where they are and what shipping will be! |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 408 Registered: Dec-03 | CHECK THIS OUT AND LOOK AT THE S310BE-Z AND THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE HAS THE BIG GUY'S. http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/default.asp?brand=JBL&market=HOM&sp=S&c at=BFS |
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Gopal Unregistered guest | 10 inch driver? are you guys kidding. If you like metal, get monitor audios. they will give you tighter, faster and punchier bass than any JBL and they will do it with only a 6.5inch driver. get a rotel 1080 to drive them and Robert's your mothers brother. |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 411 Registered: Dec-03 | no response needed their!!!!!!! |
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Silver Member Username: Project6Post Number: 655 Registered: Dec-03 | Kegger, Don't you just love these trolls!?! |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 416 Registered: Dec-03 | berny i know what you mean! just don't let it temp you into saying something stupid that makes your prior postings look less edjucated. anything new on the subject their mike? if your interested in horns yes klipsch will for sure work also the dj supply places have quite a few horn choices for you including electro voice and peavey just to name a few. i'm not sure if any of the new klipsch have much more than 8" drivers in their speakers nowadays. and are more geared for home theatre. but some of the older ones definatly rocked out with 12's and 15's. |
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New member Username: HeavymetalPost Number: 8 Registered: Jun-04 | The audio monitor gold 10's look pretty cool with the stands but I read there's a bit of a large "hole" in the midbass....which brings me to the question of what would seem to be logical......A speaker seems like it would be much more rounded and effective (for metal particularirly) as a threeway.....1 for bass 1 for mids and 1 for highs,espacially with no sub? Seems to me it would seperate the instruments better? Is that a somewhat correct observation? Kegger,talked to the guy on ebay about those jbl's....says about $115 to ship em both here to jersey....what do you think? Its definitely in my pricerange.... actually feels too cheap! Like you get what you pay for kinda thing and I'm wondering if I could do better soundwise with a 3way in the $700 area (used) although I understand the jbl's are normally much more than what the guys selling them for....what do you think? Still thinking about that ra 1070....dont know if I like the fact that there's no tone controls though just some "contour" knob....My understanding is no tone controls are a good sign from a purist point of view but I dont know..wish I had more listening time......been looking at the Nad c372 also.... has good power 2x140 and decent reviews but again some quirks,man..so many opinions/options..I'm starting to wonder if the reviews I'm reading on the net are just supercritical things that you're average person or even somewhat critical listener would hardly even notice.....I mean I've yet to review a "perfect amp" in basically ANY pricerange! But then again I'm new Let me know what you guys think. Thanks alot, Mike P.S. Berny...trolls....lol |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 417 Registered: Dec-03 | i agree a 3-way is a better design for hard rock. and don't let that price fool you those speakers were $1000 new 5 or so years ago. and if you feel comfortable dealing with the guy on ebay i would do it."what $325 total you could sell them for probably more than that if you didn't like them" and i also think the rotel would go perfect with them.don't worry about the contour knob. if you feel they need adjusting pick up an eq. the combination of those jbls and the rotel i'd believe you would be much happier than with the monitors and some lesser powerful amp. now don't feel that i'm trying to talk you into anything, this has to be your choice. but with what you've described to me and knowing those speakers i had a pair and have a rotel amp you should be rockin with that combo! |
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New member Username: HeavymetalPost Number: 9 Registered: Jun-04 | Kegger.....I think I'm gonna go for it! I always wanted a large solid LOUD pair of good sounding speakers like these and the price seems right as well.....What Rotel/system do you have? I'm thinking about getting an NAD C521bee CD player as I hear it pairs up good with the rotel,any suggestions? Somebody mentioned someting about a tube CD player? I'm familiar with guitar gear and I do prefer the sound of tubes over solid state but I dont know it its quite the same thing but probably more expensive as with most guitar amps..... Could use some help looking for good interconnects for the amp to CD and speaker cables as well......btw what type of inputs are on the JBL's? Mike |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 418 Registered: Dec-03 | to me mike as long as you get descent cables the sonic difference between ultra expensive ones is minimul at best."so don't go spending a lot" i use either medium grade monster or have been using acoustic research from best buy they are very well priced for how well their made. tube players are more for audiophiles trying to get the utmost out of their systems i don't feel the need hear. i have heard a lot of good things about the nad cd player. i am using a denon 2200 universal dvd player so i can play sacd and dvd-audio along with cd's. just in case you didn't know sacd and dvd-audio are new high resolution audio formats that you need a special player to utilize and they play 2 channel stero or multi channel surround. the rotel i'm using is a 3 channel amp 200w chanl to power my front and center speakers in my multi channel setup. the jbl's can take either banana plugs or just the bare wire on the end going into the lockdown. |
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New member Username: HeavymetalPost Number: 10 Registered: Jun-04 | I think the rotel has 5 way binding posts and the JBL's do also......I have no idea what that means? Mike |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 419 Registered: Dec-03 | i wasn't sure if you knew that's why i described what the jbl's conectors are like. those are 5-way binding posts. the post has a hole in the end that you can stick a conector into it and it kinda squashes out. "banana plug" also their is a hole in the side of the post that you can put the wire in and screw down the post connector on it instead of using a banana plug. |
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New member Username: PbuxtonProvidence, RI USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Jun-04 | Kegger, I just bought a rotel rb1080 and rc 1090 on Tuesday. Everything was working fine until today when the left channel went out. So I started researching some forums looking for any problems with rotel stuff. What I found in htguide.com were some annoyed owners of the rb 1080 having problems with the fuses blowing sometimes once a week! I don't feel like taking my amp into the dealer (30 minutes drive away) everyweek so he can change the fuse. I mean it seems ridiculous to even imagine having this kind of performance from a 2200.00$ amp/preamp. I was wondering if you had heard of anything about this issue and if you had any advice as to how to proceed. Cheers! Preot |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 420 Registered: Dec-03 | i have not heard of this before but if you go into any forum for brands of electronics you will find issues on all brands. if you do have to replace the fuse though i would not take to the dealer i would replace the fuse they are generally very easy to replace. and you should be able to find the fuses at your local hardware store. |
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Bronze Member Username: HeavymetalPost Number: 11 Registered: Jun-04 | Kegger, Starting to doubt a little on those jbl's based on reviews only.....think I can afford some Paradigm studio 60's,they seem to be a better speaker,I really want exceptional sound quality......what do you think about the comparison of the 2? Wish I could hear em both but cant. Let me know.....thanks! mike |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 421 Registered: Dec-03 | i think you know my answer allready! and what is there to dought $325 but you have to make up your own mind! and as i said if your going to play loud heavy metal you need the larger drivers that's all that i can say! |
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New member Username: PbuxtonProvidence, RI USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Jun-04 | thanks, I'll search some more forums. Preot |
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Bronze Member Username: HeavymetalPost Number: 12 Registered: Jun-04 | Am thinking about getting some paradigm active 40's instead of a rotel ra 1070 paired up with paradigm studio 60's any thoughts? |
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Silver Member Username: SoccerPost Number: 173 Registered: Apr-04 | Go here |
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Bronze Member Username: HeavymetalPost Number: 13 Registered: Jun-04 | Can probably get the actives for around 1k....as far as bridging amps and a preamp then I will need more connects,ect.....the actives are 125w bass/mid and 50w to the tweeter....they are supposed to be amazing quoted by many as the best speaker paradigm has ever made....hooks right up to a cd player with volume control? I really need some help here guys.....I'm starting to get really stressed anybody own these or heard them? They are discontinued so I can't really check them out. Thanks alot, Mike |
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Silver Member Username: SoccerPost Number: 188 Registered: Apr-04 | Don't know Paradigm (never heard them) just keep in mind you must try to listen to 3 or 4 sets at the shop, than choose one and listen to it at home, with the shop's compromise to exchange if it doesn't meet your expectations Enjoy |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 475 Registered: Dec-03 | hey mike iv'e been pretty busy lately and havn't had much time to follow the board lately. have you made any headway yet! just curious! |
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Silver Member Username: SoccerPost Number: 208 Registered: Apr-04 | Why don't you try and listen the Energy LS26? If you can get access to them, you'll find them very, very, very good for its price, and they'll come to you as a surprise! They're around93-94 dBm Enjoy |
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swampcat Unregistered guest | Klipsch Rf-7 with dual 10 inch woofers 250 watts cont with 1000 watt peaks and a spl rating of 102 db @ 2.83 volt / 1 meter Thats for you, will blow JBL 312 away, And a better sounding speaker. Check out some of the other klipsch as well. They play all the way up with no distortion or any signs of stress. My amps have clipping indicators, Klipsch sounds clean even when they start flickering @231 watts per channel Give a listen. |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 478 Registered: Dec-03 | swampcat i agree the klipsch rf-7 are excelent i almost bought some. i own both klipsch and jbl."along with others" but when your talking the price difference of $1500-2000 rf-7 and getting some s-312's at less then $500 it's pretty hard to compare them and say the rf-7 blows away the s-312's. and for some the tweeter in the jbl is a little more articulate than the rf-7's horn. i owned the s-312's they play loud and clean for long periods of time without stress! not everyone enjoys the sound of a horn tweeter verses a traditional dome. you need to listen to both to decide which will more suit your listening in the long run. some after long periods of time do not like horns. both klipsch and jbl are very simular in that they play loud and effecient.their made by the same manufacturer so yes they do have simularities. i enjoy both but feel the jbl can tend to be a little bit more detailed than the klipsch. it's all a matter of taste! p.s. make sure were talking about the same s-312 also because there was a much cheaper made model called s-312II. |
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swampcat Unregistered guest | Think I'm talking about the s-312II Has gold matallic woofer and mid list @ 1000 or so new? Maybe say 3 years ago? I would assume the s-312 is the original? I remember the Jbl's being great speakers say 25 years ago . But havent been impressed lately. Only see at best buy lately. |
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New member Username: AudiophiliacBoise, ID USA baby Post Number: 10 Registered: Jul-04 | We had a pair of Wilson Audio MAXX IIs in the store (breaking them in for a client) powered by a Krell FPB 700CX with a Krell KPS-28 and a Theta Preamp and I put in Metallica - ...And Justice For All.....oh my goodness....I had that system up louder than I have ever had any system up. It was as loud as the Metallica concert I recently attended....I couldnt hear afterwards but seriously...Ill bet I hit 120 in that room. Then I realized that I blew the resistors on all 4 of the midrange drivers...hehe...I felt sick having to tell my boss that I blew up a pair of $48,000 speakers that belong to someone else. Its all good now though. That being said. I had 2 pair of Studio 60 V.2 (still have one pair) and they will rock. They beg to play louder and louder....I love cranking metal on those things....the v.3 are better in every way. Hence the higher price tag. But they surely rock! |
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asal73 Unregistered guest | So much bad advice in this thread...... I guess Americans just don't understand audio..... |
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asal73 Unregistered guest | So much bad advice in this thread...... I guess Americans just don't understand audio..... |
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asal73 Unregistered guest | So much bad advice in this thread...... |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 589 Registered: Dec-03 | For a $2K budget and for someone that likes to listen to loud 80's heavy metal it makes sense to buy either a pair of sensitive bookshelf or tower speakers that are 8 ohm or easy to drive 4 ohms like Axiom's (have both 4 and 8 ohms and can buy them online). If you like Paradigm Studio 40's (an excellent speaker, although I never heard of them being the speaker of choice for head-bangers), I would just make sure that they are capable of playing as loud as you need for your room size. But using a good subwoofer should allow you to play many bookshelf or tower speakers incredibly loud before they distort, as long as you use the subwoofer active crossover at 60-120 Hz, depending on the speaker. I recommend getting at least one good self-powered subwoofer, an SVS, A HSU, or an Outlaw Audio . This way any half decent amp can blast the midrange and tweeters as loud as they can take it. Much of the above info depends on your room size and the acoustic charcteristics of the room. But it is easy to find 100-200 watt stereo amps used for under $500 at Audiogon.com In a medium to smaller sized room I definitely prefer bookshelf speakers, because in a tower speaker the woofer is never well balanced and since it is part of a passive crossover system you can never get the bass time/phase coherency correct and since the bass is attached to the speaker, it is almost never properly placed in the room, as the bass is the toughest aspect to place acoustically. I would buy whatever speaker (probably bookshelf that has a timbre you like and can play very loud) and hook it up with one or two self-powered subwoofers. Most of the power goes to powering the subwoofer anyway, so there is no need to buy a big powerful amp to power midrange and tweeters which never require that kind of power to play loudly. Heck, you can get a great amp for $500 or less a pair of Axiom M22ti bookshelves for $420 or M50 ti towers for $620 and then get a pair of Outlaw Audio subwoofers for $999 or a single great HSU VTF-3 MK 2 at $699 or a similar SVS model. Right there you have a ton of wattage to drive only midrange and tweeters (be careful), enough money to buy one or 2 self-powered subwoofers to blast almost any size room, which allows you to buy even an inexpensive amp or integrated used amp to go with any pair of speakers that can play loud and undistorted in the upper end as no power will be used to power the lower end. |
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