Rega set up
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New member Username: ShariKnebworth, Hertfordshire UK Post Number: 3 Registered: Feb-08 | Hi Guys This is my first post so I hope you will be gentle!! I have the following set up Rega Apollo CD Cursa3 Maia3 JM Lab Focal Chorus 816V Chord Rumour speaker wire Chord Chameleon Silver Plus interconnects I am getting to what I believe is the end of the burning phase and am finding this set up overally smooth and a touch unexciting. The detail is there plus the bass and high frequecies, but the excitement is missing and the vocals are not what I call solid!??. I think it may be a mid band thing?? Yesterday I changed the speaker cable to Naim NACA5 which improved the excitement a little, but dulled the detail in the mid band and it was maybe a tad bright(or is it increased detail???) and some of the warm rounded sound has gone. I have changed back to the Rumour now. Chord advised that because I have Rumour 4 and the speakers have a single pair of posts, that I join the wires at both ends to make a 2 into 2 cable. Not sure if there is any difference though. Is this a trade off for excitement and warmth, or can I achieve both. What I want to accomplish is better more solid vocals and some excitement in the music when its required. It may just be that the system is still not bedded down, but I have given it about 100 hours so far. I know at least a few of you have good experience with Rega, namely Frank and Art, and would welcome you comments or suggestions. I must say the Focals on the end of the Rega do sound good, so this could be about subtle cable changes rather than equipment change and I am trying to get the last 5-10% out of my current set up. Cheers in advance Shari |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6177 Registered: Feb-05 | I have good experience with Rega however I've not heard the Focal's with Rega gear to good affect. The store I bought my Rega gear from does carry Focal and Chord cables. They don't use the Focals and Rega together unless you ask and to be truthful I can see why. They just don't come from the same school of musical thought. They tend to use Focal with Simaudio and Sugden. I've also used the Chord cables as that's what the distributor recommends and that's what Rega travels with when they demo gear or show gear. I don't like Chord with Rega especially the interconnects. They lead to exactly the sound you are talking about...lifeless with unconvincing vocals. I don't know what to suggest. I don't know what the Focals retailed for but I would rather have had the Rega R7's with Rega gear. Far more lively. I would look at cables...Frank and I will disagree...I like van den Huls The Orchid interconnect, anything less by van den Hul will be a bit dull sounding. The Orchid is $600 US for 1m. For speaker cable I use van den Huls D352 but would recommend one step up to the Magnum. van den Hul cables made a huge difference in my system. Chord just didn't work for me. |
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New member Username: ShariKnebworth, Hertfordshire UK Post Number: 4 Registered: Feb-08 | Hi Art Thanks for the response. The Focals retail for 1000GBP and the dealer has said I can change them if I wish although he does not see a better alternative. He says the other options are the Rega - bright and shrill Totems cannot be turned up too loud Spendors 5se - will have the same bass response but a a bit slow and not the detail in the high frequencies He is convinced I have the right speakers. I did demo them and they are rocket fast, detailed with good highs and lows. It may be my room that is doing it? When I sit closer to the speakers the vocals are better, but sometimes its nice to get that rawness of sound as well as the soft smooth stuff with classical and jazz. Sometimes I think its just smooths everything off no matter what it is. I may of course be being too fussy! The dealer I have is great, but only has the R1s in the shop so I cannot get to hear the Regas. As a company they generally rate the Rega stuff but have never been fond of the speakers. In terms of the cable. I have always had Chord. I had it on my Cyrus stuff when i was running it through PMC FB1s. I have some VDH the seconds that I tried, but you may as well have thrown a duvet over the speakers! I nam trying to get to a sound where I ghave excitement when it was intentioned and smoothness when it is intentioned. It must be possible!? Cheers S |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 622 Registered: Feb-07 | "Totems cannot be turned up too loud" I've heard Totems turned up very, very loud. What was the dealer's rationale on this statement? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6179 Registered: Feb-05 | van den Hul's Orchid is different than the standard vdh cable...detailed and lively. Totems do play loud (enough) and Rega's are only bright and shrill in a poor system. Try the other alternatives yourself and pay no mind to the dealer (who sold you what you are presently unsatisfied with). We all have preferences. Frank doesn't like the Rega speakers either. I have a local high end dealer who loves the Rega speakers...prefers them to anything in the price range. Try different things and don't settle that's what's important. Off to work I go. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12232 Registered: May-04 | . I really don't know what sort of "excitement" you're listening for. Can you be more specific about the issues you find to have improved and those that have not with this system? If you've changed speakers, you'll probably have to change speaker set up. Have you tried various placements with the Totems? Anything prescribed by anyone or just your own methods? Try the W.A.S.P. speaker placement system. You mention your room having an effect, how so? http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html . |
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Bronze Member Username: DudywoxerScunthorpeUK Post Number: 43 Registered: Mar-06 | Listen to the speakers, not to the dealers. Totems will go LOUD, To my following comments you nead to keep in mind that when I was looking for speakers I tried a couple of Focal models and discounted them as being more about the Hi-Fi than about the music. We have similar set ups, I am using Saturn>Cursa>Exon. I started with the Rega R3's which were superb. lean, fast and very entertaining, but a change in listening rooms forced a change in speakers. I tried the R5's as my first port of call, but just could not get them to gell in my room. After varying tries I finished up with S5'es. Rather than re type it all I have copied over the following extract from a review I dis on another place. You could(should) also consider speakers from NEAT, but try to ensure you have the correct room placement sorted for the focals as well. Spendor S5e How much of the sound of the Spendors is attributable to the electronics that go before them, or the room they live in I am unable to say, as I have only heard them in any critical way in my system, and obviously in my room. After a change round of listening room it become obvious that the little Rega's needed to be changed. Nothing wrong with them I hasten to add, I still think that they are a stunning speaker, but they were being asked to drive twice the room volume originally intended, in what appears to be a much brighter sounding room. In fact if I moved back to the old room, the Rega's would probably still be first choice. Getting the placement right was a bit of a pain, but I believe that this is much more down to the room than to any design quirk with the S5e's. Having got it right, or least I think its right the following is the best written description I can come up with for the sound. I will probably have to revisit this section, but till I do:- I keep thinking that the Spendors are not as quick as the Rega's, but when you really listen to them they are very bit as quick, and time every bit as well, they just have more meat on the bones, and have a warmer overall balance. They therefore do not give the same impression of speed, but I really can not find any fault with their timing. With orchestral work the S5e's sound reassuringly large for such a small floor-stander, being able to convey the power and scale of the orchestra all round the speakers, behind as well as spread across, and in front of the speaker plane. They are able to convey the swings in volume, and scale as more and more of the orchestra join in with Music. When you listen to them, you can very easily imagine that the speakers are much bigger units, with correspondingly bigger drivers than they actually are. They seem to produce bass much lower down the scale than the specs say they do. They are also able to convey the feel and power of individual instruments in a very realistic way, making the scale and power of a Piano a tangible thing, or the size of the air box on a cello etc. When the music is scaled down the spendors are if anything better, if the recording engineer new what he was doing they are able to portray the feel of a small venue when listening to live recordings. Female vocals have that uncanny ability to make the hairs on the back of your neck stand, and the emotion that they are able to portray can be quite astounding at times. The relationship between instrumentalists in small group jazz music is so right, that they seem able to make sense of music that a lot of speakers can not translate. They can handle any type of music that I would want them to, from Rock, some heavy metal, some blues and classical, Big Band, and Jazz with the same ease, and a real feel the music. They certainly have an affinity with the Rega gear in front of them, making the whole much greater than the sum of its parts, or that's the way it seems to me, and I would imagine something similar would happen with Naim, Linn or Ayre, and from what I can remember Sugden as well. Trying to turn sound into words, is too a large extent beyond me, but in summary I would say that although the Spendors are not the last word in Transparency, and that speakers with bigger bass drivers will obviously have more bottom end impact, and some speakers have a sweeter top end to them I can not think of a compact floor stander at anything around the price level of them that can match the overall integration, cohesive overall sound, with the timing ability to make such sense of the music. Or a speaker that sounds so good when sitting in the sweet spot, but also fills the room with music in such a way that sitting well of axis does not spoil your enjoyment of the music. As far as cables go, somedays I know I can hear differences, some days I can not, I can't be arsed with all the double treble blind listening tests, its way too much of a pain to strip all the gear out of the racks to change the interconnects any way, so what I have is staying. And speaker cables, I am currently using the 4mm van dame blue stuff, and as I need a pair of around 12 metres I am way to much of a tight sod to be putting in anything at £30 a meter to try so make your own minds up, what I have will do fine thanks. Will I change anything, Of course I will, but at the moment I have a well balanced sound that I am more than happy with, and I will try to restrict my changes as much as possible, but the evil weevil called upgrade-itis will twitter in my ears about tweaking this or changing that, but I will try to resist. |
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New member Username: ShariKnebworth, Hertfordshire UK Post Number: 5 Registered: Feb-08 | Thanks for all the comments so far. I have plyed my Focals for an hour now to really try and pin down what I don't like about them. I have them well placed and have studied and tried different techiques to get the sound just right. Un fortuantely I do not have the ideal listening position. My room is 6x4m and I am on the long section, speakers up one end and me down the other. The speakers are a 68cm away from the rear wall (the max I can get without the wife going mad), but I am up against the rear wall although I have a carpet on that wall to try and deaden the sound coming back off it as much as possible. The speakers are slightly toed in. Good points are, they are fast accurate with a great top end. They also go low. Bad points are they feel too big for the room and the bass can dominate on dance music to the point it makes my ears go funny. The bass does not feel refined. It makes me feel like these speakers were made for home cinema with huge lows and high treble, without the refinement and sweetness needed for music (just IMHO). I have decided that I have given the speakers long enough now and there is something just not right with them for my ears. I play rock, dance, classical and some jazz. The speakers are great and warm with jazz and slow classical, but once it all speeds up the bass feels like it could take over. As for alternatives. I will probably demo the totem arrow, spendor 5se as these are all the dealer will have. I am curious about the toems as I wonder if they cann do large scale and fill the room being so small, but I am very open minded given the Focal feel over powering at times. Art: I am interested to hear you views on the Focal and the "diffrent schools" they are from as I don't quite understand. David: not sure where the dealer got the idea that the totems will not go loud from Jan: excitement....the only thing I can think of which is a good example is the theme from Gladiator and the Battle track. Its loud, and dframatic and the Focals play it loud and detailoed, but I do not get the sense of drama from it, bass, treble and bits inbetween. Like I say, I cannot put my finger on it, but it just sounds OK, which is not good enough given the money I have spent. Colin: thanks for the advise and I will use it when I demo other speakers if my dealer gets back to me Sorry about the long post, and you can probably tell I am confused and hacked off Cheers |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2696 Registered: Sep-04 | Shari, As Art says, we disagree on cabling and Rega speakers. That said Art is the one who bought Rega - I just sell it!  I am not that familiar with the Focal 816V because we have only recently had a couple of the 800V models in, and my colleagues didn't get on with the 800Vs finding them a bit ponderous in the bass. Actually, they were a bit less complimentary than that... Anyway, you must have demoed the system before you bought it so I'm wondering what your dealer used in the demo that could cause the difference you're getting, especially since the system has run in now. At first glance, my gut reaction is that the Apollo is a bit of a light source for the rest of the system. however, there are a couple of other things in there I'm not too sure about. 1. Chord Rumour - it's a good cable but a bit warm or big in the bass for my taste in your system. I would use Naim NACA5 (same price as Rumour give or take). Art would go for the Bland'n'Dul, but hey ho there you go! ;-) 2. The Chameleon is a good allrounder, but I suggest you get your dealer to try the latest variant of Chord Anthem 2 (£300). try it and see if this is where the problem lies. If you decide to change the speakers consider the following thoughts. I know what your dealer means by the Totems not going loud. I've had the same comment from my own colleagues and by comparison to some speakers such as Focal and Naim they can certainly seem not to go as loud or carry as far. However, I find they offer other attributes which escape the others. That said, speakers colour the sound most obviously so if you chose the Focals, you must have done so for a reason. The Totems in the price range you're talking about are either the Rainmakers or the Arros. If you want better deeper bass then the Rainmakers are the ones to listen to. Both of these are nothign like the Focals which are a bigger 2.5 way floorstander. I'm not sure the Totems would be for you. I don't agree with your dealer that Rega's own speakers are bright and shrill. To me, they're all midrange and, in the larger speakers, boxiness. I can see why some might find them entertaining enough (the 3 in particular which I actually like) but that's it. The Spendors are also not to my taste, although they look gorgeous. In summary, I think the Apollo is out of its depth, I think the interconnects are light, the Rumour is wrong, too warm and laid back, the Focals could be a problem too but not sure. Of those, primary culprit is Rumour. Ask your dealer to lend you some alternatives - he must be able to do that. If you get nowhere with different sonding cables, it may be the speakers, although I still think the CD player is light. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: ShariKnebworth, Hertfordshire UK Post Number: 6 Registered: Feb-08 | Hi Frank Thanks for the comments. I did demo the speakers and commented at the time that I was a little apprehensive about how large the bass was. I chose the speakers because I love the big sound they produce. Its very detailed and meaty. I must say the speakers are great with classical and jazz and give a very rounded and rich sound, but when there is bass ther IS bass! I take your points about the CD player and the cables. The cables were recommended by Chord for the system, but yes the Rumour is fairly warm sounding. I have now changed back to the Naim cable and it has moved the presentation forward a little and made the music a little more emotional. I have emailed the my dealer, who has been excellent throughout, to mention about the alternatives and no doubt he will contact me tomorrow. I would be interested to hear what speakers you would put with the Regas? I did have a Rega system a good few years ago. It was the PLanet and the Mira running with Ruark Prelude 2s. I really liked the sound of that system, but sold it for a Cyrus one. I will see what my dealer suggests Cheers |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6180 Registered: Feb-05 | Bland'n'dul...funny...lol! Have you heard the Orchid...probably not. However I do understand listening to a product and getting used to the sound and then having a difficult time with a change (if there is one). I found Chord to be a decent cable certainly better than Analysis Plus but not as good as what I replaced my Rumour and Chorus with...Bland'n'dul!!! Shari...you describe the Focal as "very detailed and meaty". I wholeheartedly agree and that's exactly what the Rega's are not. They are fast and get the essence of music right with a forward presentation. Bass is excellent but Rega's are everything but detailed and warm. The van den Hul Orchid is very detailed while maintaining a warmth that takes the edge off of Rega's forward presentation without stealing the famous Rega signature sound. I love the combo but that's just me. Just my lunch 1/2 hr no time for more at this point....bye bye! |
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New member Username: ShariKnebworth, Hertfordshire UK Post Number: 7 Registered: Feb-08 | Hi Art yes I have been listening to the system alot tonight with my wife and the speakers are exactly as I described and thats whats been niggling me I think. In the demo they sounded good, but to live with long term the sound is just too big and bold and seems to not gel with the Rega gear. You seem to get laid back bold and meaty music which is a bit weird. If it was forward and bold then fine. Anyway. I have emailed my dealer to tell them they are coming back and could I demo the totems and spendors. I just hope he takes them back! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6181 Registered: Feb-05 | Both the Totem's and Spendor's are a good match Shari...much luck to ya. I have 2 dealers that regularly recommend the S5e with Rega, not quite enough bass but a very nice match. Ofcourse I love my R5's and really appreciate what they do. |
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New member Username: ShariKnebworth, Hertfordshire UK Post Number: 8 Registered: Feb-08 | Hi Guys Just got word rom the dealer and he is being a star as usual. He is OK with changing the speakers and has recommended some Totem Sttaf speakers over the Arro for the improved bass response. He thinks the Spendor 5se will sound bland in comparison, but I have asked him for a demo of them as well. What do you guy think before toddle off doe a demo on the next week or so. Shari |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6185 Registered: Feb-05 | Once again a controversial choice. Frank and some others aren't very fond of that speaker, I am. I think it'll likely be a very good match for your gear. I'll be interested in what you think. |
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New member Username: ShariKnebworth, Hertfordshire UK Post Number: 9 Registered: Feb-08 | Well you may be right. I don't have alot of room to play with with the back wall either. I can bring them out about a foot and that is about it, so they may sound too overblown at that distance. My room is 6x4m so it may be difficult to fins a speaker that can fill the room and be placed a max of 12" away from the back wall. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 629 Registered: Feb-07 | Aren't very fond of which speakers? The Sttafs? I've heard the Arro's on many occasions and I love the sound of them. I almost bought a pair once, in fact, but then I realized the room they would have gone in would be too big. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2708 Registered: Sep-04 | The nice thing about Sttafs is thay are not half as difficult to drive by comparison to some Totems. I reckon the dealer knows his onions and gets where Shari's coming from to have chosen them. That said, I am not a big fan of Sttafs and would prefer the Rainmakers in this situation. Yes, yes, I know they're only tiddly but the sound they make is remarkable with lots of scale and fast detailed bass - and more engaging than Sttafs to me. Rainmakers can be placed about 12" from the rear wall and they fill our 7x5m room easily, although we fire across the short length. I don't think the Spendors are a good idea that close to the wall. Well, I don't think they're a good idea period, but even worse near the wall. Beguiling midrange so beware! Really not a fan. The S6e is much much better, and this is because he's not trying to do so much with so little, but I fear the bass would still compromise the situation. If he's a rega dealer he might be a Naim dealer. Naim make speakers designed to go against the wall. If he has them in, have a look - but one word of warning, they're a unique sound and most people who hear them don't like them! Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: ShariKnebworth, Hertfordshire UK Post Number: 10 Registered: Feb-08 | Hi Frank Yes the dealer has the same view as you on the Spendors and is really steering me away from them as he feels the bass would be too much that close to the wall. I feel the dealer is really listening to me know and we are starting to get somewhere. They have always been good to me and this is the first time things have gone a bit weird. This is when you really find out how good your dealer is! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12244 Registered: May-04 | . With your space limitations concerning speaker palcement, my suggestion would be to listen through a standmount speaker with the best coherence from the top of its range down to the limits of its bass extension (it neeed not decend much beneath 55Hz) and then fill in the remaining few bits with a quality subwoofer. You will have fewer problems placing a standmount speaker 12" from the wall (I assume this is from the wall behind the speaker, I don't believe you've mentioned the proximity to side walls) though this is still going to flatten the soundstage as it would with any speaker. The subwoofer can be placed for best sound quality independent of the main front pair and you should have no problem filling your room with a moderately sensitive standmount/subwoofer combination. At 12" maximimum from the reinforcing wall you will probably always have boomy bass even with a somewhat bass light speaker as you are asking the speaker to work into a situation that defeats its design goals. I cannot imagine a stand alone subwoofer would not be the better choice in this installation. The flexibility of controls prvided by most subwoofers will benefit the sound quality and the main amp will be driving a lighter load in most cases. If you simply can't see a standmount working in your room, make certain the dealer demonstrates his wares in a loaction similar to how you must place your own speakers. Ask him to place the speakers as close to the walls (front and side) as you must in your room. Then ask him to demonstrate a satellite/subwoofer system in a similar set up with consideration given for broader placement options of the bass unit. This is, of course, best done on a quiet weekday afternoon when the dealer can spend some time rearranging products. . |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2709 Registered: Sep-04 | Yup, that's another way to skin the cat, although one wonders whether you would need a sub with a satellite capable of 55hz extension. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShariKnebworth, Hertfordshire UK Post Number: 11 Registered: Feb-08 | Thanks for the suggestions. The speakers are both about 28 inches from the side walls. Although the speakers can only be 12 inches from the rear wall there are curtaims behind them. Not sure if this makes a difference but it must absorb some of the sound. I may also try the standmount and sub idea and see what happens, althoough I am not a big fan of this kind of set up. My dealer is getting a virtually mint second hand pair of Sttafs in the next week or so, so have decided to wait and demo those along with the Arro's and the Spendors (even if its only to elimate them). I will also see if he has any stand mounts as they do seem to do quite well in my room as well. Thanks for all your help so far, it has really helped to focus the mind regards |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12246 Registered: May-04 | . That's something that can be decided after an audition. Not all satellites will provide extension down to 55Hz and many of those that do may have a fairly steep roll off beneath that number. Some that roll out at 70Hz might be more agreeable overall than another that contributes to 50Hz. I find that room limitations are very restrictive when placement is constricted to specific placement options. I also find many people buy floorstanding speakers because of some misguided concept they have regarding small speakers with smaller drivers. Many floorstanding speakers are not much more than 2 1/2 way versions of the 2 way standmount speaker that exists lower in price in the same line. Buying that 2 1/2 way buys you more problems than solutions when you have issues placing the speakers for best quality bass reproduction. Faced with that option I would almost always opt for the 2 way with similar sound quality through the upper nine octaves and supplement the rest with a subwoofer that can be placed to give its best quality independent of the satellite's position. In room response from a satellite capable of an honest 55Hz on paper will likely get you down to 40-45Hz real world. Of course, "honest" on paper is a bit too "iffy" for me. Numbers on paper are too often fudged to the benefit of the seller and not the end user. Whether the on paper response is taken from an in room measurement or not will change the results. If the satellite has the familiar 80-120Hz bump, then what is perceived in room will be subjectively better - and more difficult to integrate with a sub - than a speaker that is capable of flatter response through that midbass region. The one thing that remains constant in this system is the ability of the sub to be placed where it provides the best integration of deep bass and smooth response from the satellites. Given the amount of power available in this system against the apparent room volume any satellite of approximately 87dB sensitivity should fill the room with sufficient SPL's while also providing quality dynamics and excellent soundstaging/transparency. Bass response beneath 45Hz is up to the listener's taste and budget. Many long time listeners would forgo the last octave of response to gain better quality through the remaining nine. If musical tastes are limited to the 41Hz low frequency limit of an amplified bass guitar, then the last octave might not be of great importance musically. OTOH, having the ability to push up the bass level without seriously damaging the quality is one advantage of a subwoofer/satellite system. If the budget stretches to provide a sub with parametric EQ, the advantages of EQ and placement could provide a strong incentive toward a subwoofered system. If the budget only allows a cheap subwoofer, then I would suggest it is better to wait until you really need a subwoofer and for now listen instead to cleaner sound through the top nine octaves. Building a system is a process that concentrates on having the most music and the least system sound at all stages. . |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 133 Registered: Jul-07 | Shari, I'm really sorry that you are not getting what you thought you were buying. You've got lots to think about already, but I'll just add this. The one thing I would be trying to evaluate is how much your room is the problem. If this all sounded dandy at the dealer, then the most likely area that would significantly change the sound is the room, in my opinion. Your listening room can be a very large percentage of your issues. Sure, it is possible that changing an interconnect or speaker wire could make a big improvement, but the issues you describe are many and varied. Get a set of speakers that are easy to move around and send your wife on a shopping trip so she won't see what you do with the room. Move the speakers around, try different listening positions, angles....even reorient your system to the other side of the room, pointing cross ways. If after all of that you can't find anything that works, then you may have to think about swapping out components. But if it's your room that's the problem, you can bring in as much different gear as you want, you'll never get what you want. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShariKnebworth, Hertfordshire UK Post Number: 12 Registered: Feb-08 | Hi Chris Yes you are right, there is lots to think about and I appreciate the advice you are giving. I have tried to move the room around and done a number of things to try and get the most out of the system to see what the is the issue. I know the Rega is the right choice as I have had it before and like the overall presentation, philosophy of the company etc etc. I also know the cable I have is OK with the Rega as again I have used it throughout most of my systems, including the Rega from before and all has been fine. The only thing that has changed in the room are the sofas which are now leather instead of fabric and I have experimented with covering them with throws to see if that effects the sound. I have moved a carpet that was on the wall by the hifi to behind my listening position as I thought I was getting overally strong bass reflected back. This calmed things down alot. If I am being totally honest the focals are huge and produce a whopping amount of bass. I think I may have succomed to the impresssive demo session in my excitement and was not level headed enough to really sit down and think what I wanted long term and whether the type of sound could be sustained for a long listening session. I take total responsibilty for this and my dealer knows this and we are working on a solution to fix it. We both agree that the electronics are right and the cables are a good starting point and the issue is getting the right speakers to make the most of my tastes and room. I think the Totems may be the answer, but we will have to see, if not then I am not sure the dealer has much more to offer, but we are both working hard to come a solution, which makes me feel more positive about the whole thing. As long as the speakers have the correct presentation and more or less work in my room, I can work from there on the room to perfect things. I am not expectoing things to be perfect straight off, but if the speakers compliment the electrics and work in my room I have something to work with. For the last week or so the hifi and me have been working against each other and you cannot perfect something that is fundemntally wrong to your ears. I have learned tonnes through this process and all the advice has been well received and used to evaluate what I have and how it could be changed. You will see in my first post that I am speaking about a cable change, but very soon after it dawned on me that maybe it was more fundemental than that. Anyway....ramble over S |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1092 Registered: May-06 | I like Jan's and Colins post up top. Speaker placement is a cheap change. Have you considered moving your listening position, a chair perhaps closer to the speakers while at the same time finding the optimal bass point from the back wall for your speakers? As suggested before, do this while the wife is away. If you hit a home run, mark the spots for the speakers and chair and then return them to near the wall and whereever you pulled the chair from. Then when you want to listen the next time move them back to their sweet spot. You can mark the spots with clear tape or thread through a carpet loop. You may have already done all of this, but I figured it didn't cost anything to offer it and won't cost you anything to try it if you have not done this yet. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6193 Registered: Feb-05 | Speaker placement is critical however it won't likely change the fact that the Focals are probably not a good match. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2716 Registered: Sep-04 | I am also willing to bet that if Shari pulls forward the couch by 18 inches to 2 feet, the bass boom will disappear. If the couch is upagainst the back wall you're right at the point where the bass resonance is tied down. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShariKnebworth, Hertfordshire UK Post Number: 13 Registered: Feb-08 | Hi Just thought I would post an update. I picked up the Sttafs yesterday and have given them a good listen. I managed to get a pair of mint second hand ones from my dealer, so it was a straight swap. What can I say....its like night a day! The Totems are really nice and give a good even sound with bass, but not overblown like the Focals. They are little slower than the Focals but give the music a more real sound. I am truely amazed that such a large sound comes from such a small box! I first trued with the Chord Rumour cable and them switched to the Naim NACA5. The Naim cable gave the music a bit more excitement and feeling, so I have stuck with that for now. Nothing else to add really, apart from these speakers are a great match for my Rega gear and I have finally found some speakers I like the sound of. Many thanks to all those who contributed advice. I have taken it all on board and its now onwards and upwards! Cheers Shari |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6294 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks for the update and much good listening to you! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2730 Registered: Sep-04 | Shari, If you're using the standard Sttafs with the standard brass plates linking the biwire terminals, please replace the brass plates with some decent wire, preferably the same as your speaker cable, but in fact anything that's halfway decent (even a power cable will do). This will open things up quite significantly - more than you'd credit. Also, plug in the speaker cable diagonally, so you go to the HF positive connection at the top and the LF negative connection at the bottom. It seems to balance the sound better that way than to stay on just the HF or LF connections. Also, with Sttafs it is not necessary to toe them in very much, the less the better for a more fluid bass presentation. If you toe them in hard they will slow down a bit. My experience with them is toe them in only very little (say 10 degrees at most, but start with them facing straight into the room). Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShariKnebworth, Hertfordshire UK Post Number: 14 Registered: Feb-08 | Hi Frank Bizarre! I have already done all that you suggested even to the point of diagonally plugging in the speaker wire as you explained. I did a lot of traill and error listening yesterday and the set up you mentioned is exactly what I have ended up with. I listened to them again tonight and I am even more impressed than I was yesterday! the Naim cable is definately better than the chord rumour for this set up. I will live with is for a bit and then try some better interconnects. One thing you may be able to help with? I am finding it difficult to get the spikes through my carpet all the way to the concrete floor as I have thick underlay. Could I use the speakers just sitting on the carpet as the floor is concrete uinderneath, or would it be better to put them on granite, or something else. Many thanks Shari |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1118 Registered: May-06 | Hmmm. Never even considered that one Frank and Shari. Not that I could with my current set up, but I cetainly found that most intersesting. Only concern is can someone misinterpret that and create shorting or phase issues? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9811 Registered: Dec-04 | Shari, yes, try a thick concrete paver or slab, and mount the speakes on spikes on them. Balance the speakers very carefully. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2739 Registered: Sep-04 | Mike, I see where you're coming from but so long as the reader exercises some common sense, it shouldn't be a problem. Shari, Nuck's idea of a concrete slab is not a bad one, although the wife might have something to say about that! If so, you can try some floor savers under the spikes, such as Perfect Sound Discs. Even though you're on carpet, they seem to work well. If you can't use them try some very small coins, preferably choose them so the point of the spikes can't slip so choose a point in the coin that is a dip. Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShariKnebworth, Hertfordshire UK Post Number: 15 Registered: Feb-08 | Hi Frank Good idea. I will try the coins first and then if I have no joy the discs Cheers Shari |
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