Hello again I have Arcam Avr280 by-amping totem Arro in my living room, Squeezebox as a source. About to get Avr350, and in the future planning to buy totem Dreamcatcher 5.1 for HT in basement. What would be the best match: avr280 with Arro (as it is now and I am very happy with this setup) and avr350 to the basement for DC 5.1? Or Arro with avr350 and avr280 for DC 5.1 for HT?
I am getting deal I can not refuse on avr350 so yes. The only thing is that apparently 280 sounds better (this is what I was told by both Arcam and Totem rep.) But 350 has more power and Arro's are power hungry. Yes of cause I will try both combinations but was just wonder if anyone more experienced could give me educated advice. Pablo
In my opinion the Arcam/Totem rep doesn't know what the heck he's talking about. Yes, there are detail things which can appear nicer on the AVR280, but the 350 is way better in my view due to a better balance. Furthermore, Arros are not an easy drive and the AVR280 easily reaches maximum with them, whereas there's a bit more in reserve with the AVR350. Therefore, musically the Arros are better with the AVR350. The DC5.1 system will enjoy the 280.
Question for you - is the Arro system purely for 2-channel music? If so, the AVR350 is not really the machine for the job. You should be looking at dedicated 2-channel stuff. The AVR350 may be a good deal, but only if it's appropriate.
Hi Frank The reason for AVR in my living room is the source - Squeezebox. I know, I know what you going to say but I would rather sacrifice bit of the quality and gain superb convenience. I have over 700 cd burned in not compressed wave format and some in flac and instant access to them via squeezebox s remote. Plus all the internet radio is accessible the same way as well. So having this as not negotiable fº Arcam have much superb DAC then $300 squeezebox. I tested this and the difference was noticeable. So if I had just a 2 channel like A90 V I would loose on quality because of DAC. Also with 280 or 350 I have Arros by-amped which made big difference. So my question is which set up will be better? Will it improve significantly if I put 350 with Arros? Will 280 be sufficient to drive DC5.1? Thanks Pablo
How much is the AVR 350? Could you get a Bryston B60 with an internal DAC or Naim SuperNait (which has an internal DAC) for about the same price?
Both will sound far better with the Arros than the receiver IMO.
Another thought may be to get an Arcam integrated and external DAC. Again, I have no idea on prices.
Frank - I believe he's using the AVR as a 2 channel set up. I think he's bi-amping the Arros with channels 1-4. He's usiong the receiver because of its DAC.
hi I am paying for practically new AVR350 $1650 total Canadian $. And it is already done deal (I gave down payment). I do not think that for this price I could buy anything better. This is private sale from my dealer 2 weeks old unit. He is getting YBA receiver at 40% of cost. I just need couple more weeks to came up with rest money and I will have it home. Stu - yes 2 channel set up bi-amping Arros with 6th and 7th channel. And like I said it is because of squeezebox. Arcams dac's are much better. I am already compromising on source because of convenience and this is why I want to use Arcam DAC. Plus (which is not that important) I have in avr's a tuner. I think separates of this quality would cost me much more and already I am stretched like a hell!! Not sure when I would be able to get Dreamcatcher 5.1. Probably another 6 months or more. This was a deal I could not pass(in my opinion) this is why desperately I took it.
I don't think he'd have found one with the internal DAC. Especially for that price. The DAC is about a $1000 option.
I'm sorry if I'm starting to sound like a broken record pushing the B60. After living with mine for the last few months, I can't recommend them highly enough. There are instances in which there are better options, like Pablo's current situation.
I understand what you're saying. I agree that the weakpoint of the Squeezebox is its DAC implementation. As Stu has pointed out there are integrated amps with built-in DACs but you are correct in saying that these would probably be more expensive.
On the subject of the deal, I note that Arcam have dropped their prices recently. I believe it's because they have not implemented the High Res audio features you can find in most models of the same price. Arcam's AVR350 price has dropped by about 20% here in the UK. That said, most of those other models don't do very well with music and in some cases not as well on surround sound, even with the High Res options!
You seem committed to the purchase. My optinion on which way to combine the amps and speakers remains unchanged. The AVR350 has a better preamp section than the 280 as well as the better power amps. I would be surprised if the 280 sounded better into the Arros.
On the subject of the Squeezebox as source, it could be worse, and the idea of storing and using uncompressed files is a sound one. There's nothing wrong with that. My problem has usually been with people trying to use low bitrate MP3 files. The only place where we know there are problems is the S/PDIF and Toslink interfaces where jitter occurs. Jitter can be a real music-breaker because it directly affects timing and rhythm, but then nothing's perfect, so if you find the result with the AVR280 to your satisfaction now, then the result will be just as satisfying or better later, whether you use the 280 or the 350 with the Arros.
In the end, the easiest thing to do is compare the two amps side by side - after all you will have both.
Just to add more confusion From Totem rep: "we recommend keeping the avr 280 to power the Arro in bi-amp mode the 280 delivers more than enough power for the Arro ( it really can't accept much more)the avr350 should be used to power the 5.1 system take care, TOTEM"
from Arcam rep:
"The increase of power on the AVR-350 over the AVR-280 makes a big difference at all volume level; you will be able to hear every single details event at low level. I would recommend to use the AVR-280 with the Arro in a bi-amp mode and use the AVR-350 with the DC 5.1 as well in bi-amp mode for the front. Hope this helps."
my dealer is like Frank - Arro's are power hungry they would benefit from 350, while 280 will comfortably drive DC5.1
350 or 280 this is the question. It takes few minutes to switch all the cables and play the same music on difrent AVR so it is really hard to tell if Arro's are much better with 350 vs 280. It is not like pressing speakers A or B buttons when testing difrent speakers (like I did some time ago with totem Staff and Arro's smoked them ) Also - this is my settings: Speakers large, no sub, everything at 0 stereo pcx FX - Music is this optimum with squeezebox as the source?
Hmmm. Normally this would be easy. I'd just tell you to switch on the Direct button on both receivers and listen to some music played through the Arros, first with one, then the other. However, the Squeezebox is heaps better when used as a transport and allowing the Arcam to decode the digital stream, which means you can't use the Direct button (which switches off all DSP).
So I would switch off the Direct button and on effects just have Stereo - no FX-Music or anything like that. This cleans up the sound by giving you just the two channels (or 4 if you biamp) and as little processing as possible.
Setup both AV receivers the same. Play whole tracks through the AVR280, then swap to the 350. Play last track first for direct comparison, play one or two more (different album/different artist), swap back, play last track first etc. If it's not obvious in the first swap, it should be obvious in the second.
Thanks Frank. I did not have a patience to do it. I've put 350 with Arro's and 280 for HT. When I get Dreamcatcher 5.1 i will then revisit. For not I have crappy speakers in HT so Arro's will benefit from new 350. Most likely I will leave it like this because I listen music more then watch movies so 350 will get better use. thanks Pablo
on avr350 so yes. The only thing is that apparently 280 sounds better (this is what I was told by both Arcam and Totem rep.) But 350 has more power and Arro's are power hungry. Yes of cause I will try both combinations but was just wonder if anyone more experienced could give me educated advice. 