From NAD C370 to Nait 5i?
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 63 Registered: Oct-07 | Hi all!! Since I am so happy now with the NAIM CD5i-2, my freaking mind tortures me about an amp-upgrade... Would it make sense in terms of sound-improvement to give the NAD C370 in payment and get a Nait 5i? Is the Nait really THAT much better? Is the NAD C370 now somehow "limiting" the Naim CD5i-2? Or would it even be better to wait some time and invest later in a better speaker set, thus keeping the in-my-eyes wonderful NAD C370? Sorry for bombarding the experts...but I am hooked now...  |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 64 Registered: Oct-07 | Oooooops, I forgot... How would I then connect my subwoofer to the Nait? http://www.canton.de/de-produktdetail-plusas-as85sc.htm |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 65 Registered: Oct-07 |  |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6118 Registered: Feb-05 | "Is the NAD C370 now somehow "limiting" the Naim CD5i-2?" Yes. Obviously the Nait would improve your system immensely. It's up to whether it's worth it. Sub, speaker level if you must...there's always a way. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1090 Registered: Jun-07 | Thorsten, the Naim unit would be a very large jump up in quality. Build and sound quality that is. Bring one home and have a listen. |
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Bronze Member Username: James_lehmannPost Number: 23 Registered: Nov-06 | "Would it make sense in terms of sound-improvement to give the NAD C370 in payment and get a Nait 5i? Is the Nait really THAT much better?" I'm doing exactly that upgrade tomorrow Thorsten - watch this space! :-) |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 66 Registered: Oct-07 | I have the Nait 5i-2 here... Man I am confused like hell... Thanks to all for your kind words...but really it is very difficult, since the KEF -speakers are a bit too bright with the Nait... Detail is much clearer with the Nait...much more alive... But I have to check out some more.... The NAD is not that much detailed, but REALLY not a lot worse... My head hurts.... |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 67 Registered: Oct-07 | Oh, and yes, I use no sub with the Nait. Not at all necessary.... Phew.... |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1092 Registered: Jun-07 | Keep listening Thorsten. Although the Naim is a better product, doesn't mean your ears are going to like it over the NAD. Everyone is different. Also doesn't mean its going to be a good match with your speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6122 Registered: Feb-05 | Frank leave those KEF's alone...I can feel it comin'. As always Thorsten let your ears be the judge. You are the one who will have to listen to the system long term. As I've stated elsewhere, all we are doing is stating is our preferences but it's yours that matters. |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 68 Registered: Oct-07 | SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET JESUS!!!! Sitting on the couch, mouth wide open, drooling like a little kiddo... UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!! Never mind the KEFs, here are the KEFs!!! Did a few changes.... 1) Put the NAD C370, T+A Speaker Six cables and my old DENON CDP in payment and got me... 2) Naim Nait 5i, 2x4 meters NACA5 cable, with Sub-cable already worked perfectly in from the dealer....as u can see on the pics... What a dramatic change a cable can bring about....freaking unbelievable... NOTHING left from treble-peaks...and honestly, I love BASS, what can I do...so I use the sub, but WAY tuned down...just to give additional structure. WONDERFUL!!!! And yes, DIN cable rocks!!!! Sorry, but I am overwhelmed.... The NACA5 is every cent woth it. Balanced, rich and VERY powerful...just a bit tough to handle as in ROOM DECORATION (my girlfriend likes it un-cable-crazy....lol). What a gigantic leap from the NAD.... I thought "Oh God, now the KEFs suck"...but au contraire...the speaker six cable had too much silver in it.. For 1000€, the KEFs do a very nice job... To all of you friendly helpers: Be embraced... Will now bath in "Since I've been loving you" (How the west was won).... CHEERS Thorsten     |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6134 Registered: Feb-05 | Awesome! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9739 Registered: Dec-04 | Good stuff, TL! Now pull the spekears out from the wall, the right one is too boxed in, and set a couple of bass traps in the wood corners. Ooohh mama! |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 69 Registered: Oct-07 | Thanks, guys.... Nuck, "out from the wall" meaning more towards me on the couch "into the room"? I specifically put the right one there...I loke the bass... Bass traps in wood corners??? Please make me understand via example...what kind of bass traps? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6140 Registered: Feb-05 | If it sounds good, pay no mind to our rambings.... |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 70 Registered: Oct-07 | Phew...what a nice sound!!!! Due to wall-placement, I inserted the foam-plugins from KEF into the bass-holes... Another incredible improvement. The bass is now tighter and the sound even more precise. I am VERY happy.... Thank u |
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Bronze Member Username: James_lehmannPost Number: 32 Registered: Nov-06 | Thorsten - how do you place a photo in a post? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2710 Registered: Sep-04 | Thorsten, Some observations: 1. I know that you have put the bungs in the speakers to control the bass but the right hand speaker is in the corner and the left hand speaker is not. By being right in the corner, the right hand speakergets a 6db lift in the bass over the left hand speaker which is just against the wall. Therefore, I would normally suggest you swap the sub with the right hand speaker to level up the bass response. 2. The speakers are very toed-in. I suggest you start with them almost not toed in at all. You will immediately notice that the image is not as sharp, but at the same time you should notice that the bass becomes more tuneful and you can remove the foam bungs which allows the speakers to breathe, removing some congestion in the midrange. Toe them in a little if you wish just until the image snaps into focus but no more. At that point, the system should give you good spread (particularly with classical) as well as a focussed image in the middle from bands and vocalists. 3. Why place the CD player on the bottom rung? It's the unit which you need to touch. The amplifier is almost never touched. 4. I see that you have locked the DIN plug in place on the amplifier (and I presume the CD player). This may seem the sensible thing to do and used to be the norm. However, Naim have done a lot of work on decoupling technologies and found that leaving the plug unlocked and preferably with the lock ring slid back off the socket, there's a very small (minute) improvement in performance. Naim took this theory to its logical conclusion in the Airplug which they use on their HiLine interconnect. The Airplug allows the pins to move and 'seat' themselves in the most natural place int he socket. This allows them to make the best connection without strain. At the same time, the airplug decouples the pins from the main interconnect cable by having a very flexible link cable between the two. Although this seems like it should introduce an extra connection and therefore be a bad thing, the evidence of the HiLine is very much to the contrary, so it's worth just trying the standard interconnect without locking the plugs. After all, the HiFi is not in a place where you can easily knock out the cable. 5. I see the power cable of the subwoofer. Where are the Naims plugged in? Try to plug both Naims into the same double wall socket or a single multi-way block (without any spike filtration, conditioning or regeneration). 6. Your units are switched off! They should only be switched off when you go on holiday or there's an electrical storm (when you should also disconnect your TV antenna and/or any other antenna cables such as Sky). Other than that, they will only sound at their best after 2 hours of warming up. Glad to see you are enjoying your induction into Naim lore. It's a slippery slope...  Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: James_lehmannPost Number: 35 Registered: Nov-06 | >> Glad to see you are enjoying your induction into Naim lore. It's a slippery slope... Please don't say that Frank! I finally arrive at Destination Naim (after 20+ years of roaming the sonic hinterland) and now you're saying my journey has just begun? WTF! ;-) |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 71 Registered: Oct-07 | Dear Frank, what a wonderful reply. Thank you so much for taking the time...I REALLY appreciate it. 1. I know that you have put the bungs in the speakers to control the bass but the right hand speaker is in the corner and the left hand speaker is not. By being right in the corner, the right hand speakergets a 6db lift in the bass over the left hand speaker which is just against the wall. Therefore, I would normally suggest you swap the sub with the right hand speaker to level up the bass response. Will try this soon. But I think the sound is much more precise and tight and clear WITH the foam-bungs in.... Lets try the sub-LS-switch again.... 2. The speakers are very toed-in. I suggest you start with them almost not toed in at all. You will immediately notice that the image is not as sharp, but at the same time you should notice that the bass becomes more tuneful and you can remove the foam bungs which allows the speakers to breathe, removing some congestion in the midrange. Toe them in a little if you wish just until the image snaps into focus but no more. At that point, the system should give you good spread (particularly with classical) as well as a focussed image in the middle from bands and vocalists. Did a researched on "to be toed in"....I understand now. They should "look straight ahead" if they would have eyes, right? Will try this too. 3. Why place the CD player on the bottom rung? It's the unit which you need to touch. The amplifier is almost never touched. I ordered a nice HIFI-rack. Should come today or tomorrow. Will place the CD on top of the rack. Cool. 4. I see that you have locked the DIN plug in place on the amplifier (and I presume the CD player). This may seem the sensible thing to do and used to be the norm. However, Naim have done a lot of work on decoupling technologies and found that leaving the plug unlocked and preferably with the lock ring slid back off the socket, there's a very small (minute) improvement in performance. Naim took this theory to its logical conclusion in the Airplug which they use on their HiLine interconnect. The Airplug allows the pins to move and 'seat' themselves in the most natural place int he socket. This allows them to make the best connection without strain. At the same time, the airplug decouples the pins from the main interconnect cable by having a very flexible link cable between the two. Although this seems like it should introduce an extra connection and therefore be a bad thing, the evidence of the HiLine is very much to the contrary, so it's worth just trying the standard interconnect without locking the plugs. After all, the HiFi is not in a place where you can easily knock out the cable. Will try this too. Good info!!!!!! 5. I see the power cable of the subwoofer. Where are the Naims plugged in? Try to plug both Naims into the same double wall socket or a single multi-way block (without any spike filtration, conditioning or regeneration). I bought the NAIM- multiway block and did connect as the dealer adviced. Source first. 6. Your units are switched off! They should only be switched off when you go on holiday or there's an electrical storm (when you should also disconnect your TV antenna and/or any other antenna cables such as Sky). Other than that, they will only sound at their best after 2 hours of warming up. Nope, they are not switched off. I just shut off the display. The power-switch on the back is on. Electricity is constantly there, just not the FULL display.... Again, heartfelt: "Thank you!!!" |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 72 Registered: Oct-07 | Did all things Frank suggested....nice. Just experimenting with the "toe-in"-stuff..... Also, I thought it would be cool to do this: My dealer has the KEF iQ9 (I just love the KEF-sound). Maybe he takes my iQ7 in payment (they are from him) and I replace the iq7 with the iQ9 and additionally remove the sub.... The sub even NOW is not that necessary....   |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 73 Registered: Oct-07 | Hi! Just went and gave the KEF IQ 7 in FULL payment (AWESOME) and received the KEF IQ9. NOW: No more sub needed!!!!!! Very very nice sound. More depth, clarity, punch...cool... And the new rack is pretty cool too...  |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2463 Registered: May-05 | I think we've created a monster. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6194 Registered: Feb-05 | Nice!!!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 74 Registered: Oct-07 | Stu, what do you mean? I learned a lot here....lol |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2466 Registered: May-05 | You came asking about changing one piece. Since then you've changed the entire system. Our insanity is rubbing off on you. |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 75 Registered: Oct-07 | I know, hehehehe... But be assured, I was nuts already before....  I just re-remembered how much I LOVE MUSIC... And now I had the money....and the right association...lol Again, big hugs with "THANKS" on'em... Love, Thor |
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Silver Member Username: JawPost Number: 180 Registered: Mar-06 | Are you the editor for Better Homes & Gardens; what's the outside look like? Very nice. |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 76 Registered: Oct-07 | Will post some pics of the house... |
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Silver Member Username: JawPost Number: 181 Registered: Mar-06 | Cool, do it. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2719 Registered: Sep-04 | Thorsten, Can you say what you thought of the changes, particularly the toe-in? It would be nice to discuss these cheap tweaks. Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 84 Registered: Oct-07 | I DID IT AGAIN.... Call me nuts, so be it... I went to my Naim-dealer, gave the KEF iq9 into payment (300€ added) and.......brought home the ARIVA!!!! YEAH!!!! Now, I will sit back and ENJOY. Why I did it? The dealer had the ARIVA down at 1400€...and they are easy to place. I can now nicely put them against a solid back-wall and enjoy an awesome controlled bass. Something with the KEFs didnt seem right...too strange middle/high... The ARIVA kicked out my subwoofer in 5 seconds. Now to be sold on ebay... More testing and burn-in to follow.. Good thing too, the ARIVA's are burnt-in by the dealer, full 5 years warranty. Will post pictures this afternoon. Now I am a fully Naim-nut. Everything Naim. Everything pure music. |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 87 Registered: Oct-07 | As promised, some nice pictures. I do not want to seem proud or something, just happy.      |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 88 Registered: Oct-07 | Two more....  |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 653 Registered: Feb-07 | Wow! Awesome house, awesome gear. Did you win the lottery and not tell us? |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 89 Registered: Oct-07 | Naw, the house we own since 2003. The gear comes from savings and one monthly payment to my dealer. And I got also at least some money for my ex-gear. 400€ for the NAD CDP, 350€ for the NAD amp, 100€ for my old DENON CDP, then 1050€ for the KEF IQ9, 200€ for the old speaker-cable...and remember the ARIVA's were down to 1400€. And we both are teachers, no kiddos in plan, so some bucks come around too. But sure, some investment has been made. This will last a pretty long time...I hope... |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2482 Registered: May-05 | Very nice system and set up Thorsten. For the amount of money you spent, there is nothing better out there IMO. I'm eagerly awaiting the day I can afford a complete Naim system. Next upgrade Thorsten - CD5x, then a power supply for it... |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1179 Registered: Jun-07 | "'m eagerly awaiting the day I can afford a complete Naim system" Stu- Whats wrong with your Bryston?lol. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1180 Registered: Jun-07 | Very very nice by the way Thorsten. Excellent setup and beautiful home. Cheers. |
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Bronze Member Username: James_lehmannPost Number: 38 Registered: Nov-06 | You needs some bass-traps in those corners Thorsten! http://www.realtraps.com/p_mondotrap.htm |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnWisconsin Post Number: 676 Registered: Dec-06 | Real nice, Thor. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9784 Registered: Dec-04 | Bravo, Thor! |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 90 Registered: Oct-07 | To ALL! Thank you. Without your help, nothing could be done!!!! James, naw. No bass-traps needed. Me loves bass. |
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Bronze Member Username: James_lehmannPost Number: 39 Registered: Nov-06 | I love bass too but there's fantastic bass and too much bass! ;-) My room was appalling before I treated it - bass nulls and nodes everywhere - so I'd certainly recommend some traps as probably making a much bigger difference than almost any other tweaks you add into your system. |
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Silver Member Username: JawPost Number: 183 Registered: Mar-06 | Fandamntastic. Plenty of room. I vote spring break at T's; we need room for about 15 plus wives, girlfrends or mistresses. |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 91 Registered: Oct-07 | Where should I place some traps??? |
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Bronze Member Username: James_lehmannPost Number: 40 Registered: Nov-06 | In the corners and behind the couch for starters. I'll see if I have time to take some pics of my room as an example... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9797 Registered: Dec-04 | JL, put them over in system pics for us to see? |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 92 Registered: Oct-07 | The most reasonable priced stuff I found would be those: Wave Panels CR I guess those two panels in those 2 corners, right? |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 93 Registered: Oct-07 | Sorry... |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 94 Registered: Oct-07 | My dealer offered me 4 of these here: Used one time, but he said no problem to use them again... 4 pieces for 100€...good stuff, right? |
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Bronze Member Username: James_lehmannPost Number: 41 Registered: Nov-06 | >> 4 pieces for 100€...good stuff, right? Well, it would be if they were proper bass traps, but they don't look anything like that to me; just big blocks of foam, and you simply can't absorb really low frequencies with foam alone! I'd take a very close look at the absorption figures before you buy anything that claims to deal effectively with bass frequencies for €25 each. The problems in my room were around 60Hz - what effect if any do these Primacoustic panels have at that frequency? Answer - they don't tell you, ie probably zero. Here's an example of another manufacturer's data sheets: http://www.realtraps.com/data.htm It makes for some pretty interesting reading - especially the comparisons with 'Acme Foam Wedges'! I don't work for RealTraps but they do seem to sell products that work, they provide proper data for their products, and they don't peddle acoustic myths that so many of us erroneously accept as gospel. RealTraps don't come cheap - one Mondo Trap will set you back €250; all I'm saying is you have to wonder about a product costing €25 that claims to do the same thing. My advice would be don't spend any money on room treatment until you've done a lot more research. |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 97 Registered: Oct-07 | That is NOT the original price, though.. Looky: http://www.rockshop.de/oshop.php?PHPSESSID=77e7253dff48f81487997134d3f5e4d8&arti kelnummer=1015749&new_lang=2&caller=navlang&sp=1&langID=2&KXxL=2007 But you are right...I will not spend THAT much money on room improvement anyway...because first of all its "OUR" living-room and not a studio or anything similar... Right now, I put a foam-roll wrapped in rockwool above our couch, just behind the wooden barrier on the ceiling and it worked already very very nice... Picture will follow soon. Maybe I will place one Primacoustic in a corner. But already the sound is so beautiful. I measured out the stands of my LS with watermarks and adjusted the spikes accordingly. Awesome result too. I slightly toed the speakers in, just a bit. Perfect soundstage.... |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 98 Registered: Oct-07 | Now, this is what I did. Works fine.   |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2734 Registered: Sep-04 | Thorsten, If you're happy with the bass response then there should be no problem and you shouldn't have to apply bass management solutions. FWIW, the one thing about your system that I wasn't happy about was your speakers, but I thought you were happy which is why I didn't say anything. I much prefer Arivas over Kefs (any Kefs), but they can be a bit unruly in certain situations. If you're not aware of this then I don't see why you should change what you have. Arivas should not need any toe-in or if you apply any, it should be so slight that if you look at them you probably wouldn't notice. The problem with toe-in, especially with Arivas, is that the bass slows down dramatically and the soundstage snaps into the middle. At the right point, Arivas, have an excellent spread of soundstage (beyond the speakers), but the musicians and instrumentalists are still laid out in front of you without emphasis. In the case of classical you will get some depth, but not as much as from your Kefs due to the closeness of the rear boundary. On that point, if you do have too much bass, you can pull out the Arivas a little at a time to reduce the bass response a little. It all depends on whether you're happy with the results or not of course. Hopefully, the Naim system will start teaching you a little about your own music! Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 108 Registered: Oct-07 | Dear Frank, thank u. Much appreciated... I found out that toeing-in the Arivas sucks kind of. The soundstage diminished. About the bass-thing: I hardly can do anything about the reverbs or the reflections...its the way the room is. The ceramic tiles, the glass and the wood...its like it is and right now I am very happy about it. Honestly, since it is the living room of my soulmate-lady and myself, I am not inspired to transform it into a studio, with zillion bass traps and mondo-traps and the heck. Some slight improvements are worthwhile here and there, but mainly the sound is so awesome...I do NOT regret a single cent. And maybe in the future we will live in another house, in the States perhaps with different ambiente...who knows? Yes, the NAIM-sound re-tought me mucho about my own music. Its "live", "natural" and "musically pure" character really lifts my spirit. Thank u all again. Rock on, Thor  |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 118 Registered: Oct-07 | Again some nice improvements, thanks to you all.... 1) I put the LS-cable on wooden pucks to avoid contact with the floor. 2) I put a corner-trap in one corner, next to the couch, additionally to the ceiling-trap. Wonderful sound. I hear more and more details everyday as the system gets "played-in"...AWESOME!!!  |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6375 Registered: Feb-05 | My dream system and probably the only one I'd rather have than mine Thorsten...awesome! I love those speakers...truly. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 119 Registered: Oct-07 | Yeah man, just went through "The Wall CD1" again... Overwhelmingly beautiful...getting better day by day... It is nice, now that really ALL is NAIM. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2750 Registered: Sep-04 | Thorsten, Will you stop fiddling and just play some music? Please??? Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 120 Registered: Oct-07 | Will do..sorry, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: James_lehmannPost Number: 48 Registered: Nov-06 | Er... Thorsten - that foam 'trap' won't make a fig of difference to the sound down there! I'd just remove it or use it as a cushion. I apologise for perhaps diverting you on the acoustic treatment/trapping issue - I'd only recommend exploring this if you a) are prepared to do a bit of research on acoustics and treatment and b) have a reasonable budget (let's say $1,000) or the time and DIY skills to invest in improving the sound of your room. I work in professional studios, which is why I am both familiar with and a proponent of raising awareness of this critical aspect of music reproduction. As you can read in my other post, I opted to fix up my room acoustically before upgrading my system - it took me twice as long to save the money (obviously) but the results fully justified my decision when the Naim went in. Whilst I accept that others may not attach the same value to room treatment as I do and have aesthetic considerations to take account of, I would encourage everyone to investigate whether this might actually have a far greater impact on the sound of your system than some of the other tweaks I see regularly recommended on this site. I think almost any room (short of a perfect anechoic chamber) can be significantly improved with the addition of some decent room treatment. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 121 Registered: Oct-07 | "Er... Thorsten - that foam 'trap' won't make a fig of difference to the sound down there! I'd just remove it or use it as a cushion." Er...James - have you been in that room? To me, it DOES make a difference. The bass is much more controlled and these "standing" waves are nicely diffused... Nope, I am not inspired to invest ~ 1000€ in "room improvement", sorry. As you clearly see, this is our LIVING ROOM. It wont become MY STUDIO. I live in a beautiful relationship and my soulmate is not such a big HIFI-freak, and compromises should and can be made. Even the "foam trap" above my head brought some improvement. I appreciate your nice advices from before, but please do not comment on something you clearly cannot know, in this case, HEAR. This is not just some friggin "foam trap". Looky here: http://www.rockshop.de/oshop.php?PHPSESSID=76a25acd86144eb0c09ffe59e7ee860b&arti kelnummer=1015749&new_lang=2&caller=navlang&sp=1&langID=2&KXxL=2007 Anyway, no worries. All sounds fine to me. I just got the floor-protectors from NAIM for the Arivas. Great stuff, since the spikes should not stand directly on the ceramic tiles.  |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9837 Registered: Dec-04 | An anechoic chamber is the worst possible 'dead' space to listen for pleasure. A dead room is worse (to me) than a lively one. 2c |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 122 Registered: Oct-07 | Nuck, could you explain, please???  My Naim-dealer also told me to put a light, see-through-curtain on the "in-the-middle-of-the-speakers" window, benefitting the sound-stage-building. Will try so later, LOL.  |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 123 Registered: Oct-07 | James, sorry for maybe being rude, but this does not look like a very good "researched"-listening-room either...  |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1140 Registered: May-06 | Thorsten, you seem to be a bit defensive when there is no need to. I do not see James as being critical of you but offering valuable advice. I get what he is saying relative to the value of room treatments. I rank room treatments way up there, but I did not realize that (it certainly is not glamorous or cool and it is not NEW gear) until after I did the buy the gear thing first. I would reverse the order if I had to do it over. While your room does not appear acoustically biased, James' room does not look like something out of Home and Garden but from what I see I suspect he, like you, is doing his best for what he has to work with. My room used to look charmingl like yours does Thorsten, but I destroyed that look completely to where my wife tends to avoid it. Musically, it does not get much better. Then again I am in my room to listen to my music, Marsh has the whole rest of the house to entertain or spend idle time in. To each his own, no really right or wrong answers unless someone states that they are at Point "A" and asks how to get to Point "B". You are closer to "A" than James or I, if you want to get closer to "B" you know what to do. Hope you understand. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9839 Registered: Dec-04 | Mike's is the room from hell, Thor. And it works very well. A 'dead' room offers zero reflection.It just sounds, well, dead. Single waves of any frequency just pass once, and offers very little in soundstage. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6425 Registered: Feb-05 | As Thorsten is trying to point out, when your listening room is your living room, room treatments take a back seat to several other considerations such as the aesthetic sensibilities of your significant other and yourself for that matter. Ofcourse one can be careful to a certain extent but there are limitations when this is your everyday living space and place to greet folks. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 124 Registered: Oct-07 | Quote: "I do not see James as being critical of you but offering valuable advice." Quote: "Er... Thorsten - that foam 'trap' won't make a fig of difference to the sound down there! I'd just remove it or use it as a cushion." Sorry, I was just a little annoyed with the tone of his advice. And with the point that actually, he cannot know if it makes a "fig of difference"... I do not want to stir up problems with James, but his words sounded kinda harsh to me. Forgive me for this. |
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Bronze Member Username: James_lehmannPost Number: 51 Registered: Nov-06 | Well, no worries - I don't mind being criticised or taken to task for what I did say. Apologies for offending anyone or using a poor choice of words. But let's just be clear on what I DIDN'T say: 1) MY OWN ROOM I did not say that my room is a reference listening environment in any way shape or form. I wish it were, and I hadn't had to spend $1500 on acoustic treatment to get it to sound even vaguely listenable! As Michael points out I'm as tied to (3) as everyone else here! 2) ANECHOIC CHAMBERS I did not say that an anechoic chamber is an ideal environment for listening to music in. I was making the point that as an anechoic chamber is specifically designed to minimise reflections at all frequencies, the addition of further acoustic treatment would likely upset this delicate balance and render the room unusable for the function it was designed for. 3) OTHER LIMITATIONS ON ROOM CONSIDERATIONS I did not say that listening rooms are not subject to important and possibly conflicting considerations of aesthetics, functionality and 'share-ability'. Almost everything is a compromise for almost everyone. I hope this clears up any misunderstandings. Have a nice weekend everyone, with your wonderful sound systems in your unique, comfortable and non-anechoic living rooms! And think of me in mine, swapping cables in and out of my Nait5 like an over-worked 1940's switchboard operator trying to decide which ones work best (see other thread)! James |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 125 Registered: Oct-07 | Dear James, no hard feelings... I wish you a "good choice" with the cables. I would prefer the NACA since it REALLY fits into your system. But I never heard the Chord-one... Well, its a tough job... Yesterday evening I was finally adjusting the spikes on the Arivas so that all is right and watermark-proof with the floor protectors... Have a nice weekend...and again, forgive me that I was a bit pissed off with your tone... Love, Thor |
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Bronze Member Username: James_lehmannPost Number: 52 Registered: Nov-06 | OK - all is cool man! I used Linn Skeets for the spikes on my parquet floor - they were quite expensive ($30 each or something x 8!) but seem to work very well. http://www.linn.co.uk/music_systems_skeet_floor_protectors Yeah cables - did you take the NACA5 for your system? I'm sure I'd be very happy with that cable, but the Chord is sufficiently different to have me thinking! Enjoy your AC/DC - I have the remasters too - awesome! |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 126 Registered: Oct-07 | I bought the NACA5. Its just so damned good. For me, no need to check on the Chord... As floor protectors, I bought the NAIM-ones. Yep, expensive too. 29€ each...my dealer said: 8x 29 = 200 Could you describe the MAIN difference between those two cables? |
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Bronze Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 77 Registered: Nov-07 | James-I enjoyed your write up on the cables. I, like thorsten chose the NACA5 (3.5m) as recommended by my dealer. As my Focals run in, I am noticing an increase in bass and clearer vocals. What I thought was a short coming turned out not to be the case. I also changed stands to a more rigid steel (sand filled) and this has also improved perofrmance. On a side note, I was wondering if you have listened to the Focal-JM Labs and compared them to the PMC's you own. Trying to avoid the upgrade bug and just enjoy some music for a while. Ed |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2510 Registered: May-05 | ED, The PMCs are a better speaker IMO. But they also cost $700 more than the Focals, so its to be expected. |
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Bronze Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 78 Registered: Nov-07 | Thanks Stu, but my new Naim kit will be running a pair Focal Electra 907 Be Special Editions in Signature finish real soon. Thanks for you guys here with great advice, I have changed speakers, CD player, Amp and Pre-Amp and now speakers again. These speakers should keep me happy until I can get my hands on a CD5X and power supply. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2514 Registered: May-05 | I love the CD5x without the power supply. The power supply makes it significantly better. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 132 Registered: Oct-07 | Just auditioned the CD5x....hmmm...pretty good. Not REALLY sure that it is a 1200€-better player than the CD5i-2 though...missed the "live-feeling"...the musicality... Sure, better punch, more power, more "organized", but....hmmm...for me not worth spending another 1200€... The CD5i-2 really is a fantastic CDP, for me there is no doubt about it... Frank, how far should the ARRIVAS be apart? I find it very nice at 2,20 metres...more?? |
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Bronze Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 81 Registered: Nov-07 | Thorsten, thanks for the mini-review. This means I'll definitely enjoy my CD 5i.2 for the next year before I revisit the subject. Especially with some new speakers on the way.... |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 134 Registered: Oct-07 | Only for one year??? Honestly, the CD5i-2 has a extremely good price/value-relation...some even like him better than the CD5x... I am pretty impressed with the patience of young skywalker James...I guess I will humbly follow his footsteps. Sure, better is always an option...but that means MUCH MORE money... Here in Germoney, the CD5x is about 2572€, the CD5i-2 about 1298€...to my newbie-ears, the CD5i-2 doesnt sound only half as good as the CD5x..never. I would say the CD5i-2 comes astonishingly close to the CD5x...in some parts even tops it... Just my humble 2 cents... The CD5i-2 in a pure NAIM set-up can not be beaten in the price/value-league... |
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Bronze Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 82 Registered: Nov-07 | I say one year now.... But with this gear I know I can be satisfied for many years to come. I will audition the CD5X, but your early leg work helps me along the way. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2525 Registered: May-05 | Everyone's opinions are different. I think the CD5x is worth the increase in cost. It does everything better than the CD5i. I'd definitely buy a CD5x if I could afford one, but that's just me. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 135 Registered: Oct-07 | Definitely the CD5x IS better. Must be, when one considers his inner-life... But again, the Cdx2 is better than the CD5x...and the CDS3 is better than the CDx2...and the CD555....lol... |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 136 Registered: Oct-07 | Right now, I am very happy with this setup...  |
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Bronze Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 84 Registered: Nov-07 | Way to go Thorsten. Lovely. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 137 Registered: Oct-07 | Not good solution, destroyed the soundstage... System should go not in the middle of the speakers.. Back to this...   |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2780 Registered: Sep-04 | Yes, it's my experience that systems seem to play less well when placed between the speakers. No idea why! It would be nice to have the speakers slightly further apart, but I don't see any space, especially considering the location and size of the sofa. By all means move the system closer to the side window and move the speakers a bit further apart, but the right speaker will be getting closer to the side wall. Although Arivas don't mind being closer, there's bound to be some effect from that. That said, the better placement could work for you. Also, the system is still running in realistically speaking, so there's still a bit of settling to happen. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1175 Registered: May-06 | TL, I am aware of the fact that you share this space with your wife and whatever you do has to be unilaterally acceptable. But what if you moved you speakers to the wall to the right of your couch and then moved the couch to face the speakers. I think the open air that would give you behind the couch would add much to your listening experience. I would have mentioned this earlier but it is the first time I saw your room with an open left side (well the first time I realized it anyway). |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1852 Registered: Nov-05 | Yes, TL, I agree with Mike. To test his theory, sit forward on the couch and hold your hands up flat behind your ears (or better still use larger cardboard sheets or whatever) to make like elephant ears. Take them away and put them back while the music is playing. Having open space behind your head is much more preferable for listening imho. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 138 Registered: Oct-07 | Thanks guys, just had some friends over. How cool that was...we know each other for 20+ years...and we did: listen to music...the whole evening...great. To your kind advices: I cant move the speakers to the right side of the couch. The couch is too huge...you would stumble on it by entering the living room and it would be too big within the whole room and I stressed out Monika pretty much, but I understand the point with the open space very well... No problem...the sound is so awesome right now...lets see for the future...I have to accept the facts. The problem with moving the system to the window on the right side is the length of the NACA. The left speaker is up to the max. If I move the system...its a no-no. Honestly, I just put a thick curtain on the soundstage-window in the middle and it worked nicely. My friends both were BLOWN away...thanks to NAIM and you guys. Love, Thor |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 139 Registered: Oct-07 | And another upgrade!!! Gave my CD5i-2 in payment and got a demo-CD5x with full warranty...AWESOME improvement.... |
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Bronze Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 89 Registered: Nov-07 | TL I said at least one year. You didn't even make it two months..... What made you give in after your initial listening session? |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 140 Registered: Oct-07 | Hmmm, at first , I wasnt very much impressed...but when I was again there...phew...I got "infected" again... And the price finally made it very very much, lets say, comfy.... And GREED!!!! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2788 Registered: Sep-04 | Thorsten, You're impossible... Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 141 Registered: Oct-07 | Dear Frank, I know. I just went to my dealer to bring there my "old" (LOL) CD5i-2...so I decided to get my NACA5 soldered with the NAIM-plugs instead of the Deltron-bananas. He really did a first-class job and again I can hear a big improvement in the sound. More Naim-y... YEAH |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 734 Registered: Feb-07 | TL, you upgrade even more than I do. And I thought I was bad. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 142 Registered: Oct-07 | |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 712 Registered: Apr-04 | I have been wondering for a while now how a Nait 5i would do with my Martin Logan Aerius i's? Anybody try? I have heard it would be fine! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2792 Registered: Sep-04 | It would probably squeak in shock and keel over. The Naim cannot cope with an impedance load that drops below 2 ohms. Martin Logans aren't renowned for being easy in this respect. Provided the impedance stays above 2 ohms then it should be OK, but the other issue with MLs is their general sensitivity. Am I correct in saying they're only around 86db/w/m? If so don't expect headbanging levels. It'll be good but not extraordinary. Finally, ML is very far from the Naim presentation, beautiful tonality, lovely resolution and a palpable, large soundstage. The Naim doesn't really major on these attributes - its strengths are pace rhythm and timing. Now if you want to wake up your system, this is possibly a good way to do it, but if the combination plays to the weaknesses of the components, rather than their strengths, then you could get a pretty awful result... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9904 Registered: Dec-04 | I would try for free. Maybe 10$ gas money at most. |
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Bronze Member Username: James_lehmannPost Number: 57 Registered: Nov-06 | Odds on Thorsten will have a 555 in his house before the year's out at this rate! |
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Bronze Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 90 Registered: Nov-07 | James, you must have been reading my mind this morning..... |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 143 Registered: Oct-07 | Hi! Just curious...got some savings left...harharhar What difference would a change NAIT 5i-2 to SUPERNAIT on my system make??? CD5x/ARIVAs... What would I hear and experience differently??? |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1866 Registered: Nov-05 | What difference would a change NAIT 5i-2 to SUPERNAIT on my system make??? Answer: a further diminishing of your bank account. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 144 Registered: Oct-07 | Dear Mr.R., hmmm, not really THAT funny your comment. Really, any of your business???  |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 743 Registered: Feb-07 | I think M.R. was just kidding... |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 145 Registered: Oct-07 | Hmmmm, does he know me that good....??? Whatever... |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1867 Registered: Nov-05 | You print it on a forum and it's anyone's business Thorsten. Take it easy fer Pete's sake, I was just ribbing you. Guess I should have put a smiley on the post, but I'll leave this thread and you alone. |
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Bronze Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 93 Registered: Nov-07 | TL, I would like to hear more aobut the CD5X if you care to PM me. Just got my new speakers and differecnes are not night/day, but they exist. Oh yeah and for the better I might add. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1191 Registered: May-06 | TL, do you see anyone snapping at you in the manner in which you snap at others? M.R. is a long standing member of this forum and he has elected to no longer participate. That is too bad as you never know when someone can provide insight on something. There are fairly hostile posters, trolls if you will, that you can have ample opportunity to take issue with. It's only a matter of time when one of them crosses your path. Possibly you have thought yourself what M.R. posted? It's not like he was calling you out. None of us have endless resources for what its worth. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 146 Registered: Oct-07 | "You print it on a forum and it's anyone's business Thorsten. Take it easy fer Pete's sake, I was just ribbing you. Guess I should have put a smiley on the post, but I'll leave this thread and you alone." Dear M.R., I want to beg for your forgiveness. Please accept my humble apologies. I guess you hit a button in my sub-conscious mindo...and I reacted stupidly. Maybe that smiley would have been a cool idea... Please do not leave this thread since you are a senior member and it was my bad... I hope you can forgive my faux-pas... Love, Thor |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9910 Registered: Dec-04 | I just love a good line of credit, meself... |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 147 Registered: Oct-07 | Nuck, what do you mean?? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9912 Registered: Dec-04 | It is a light moment referring to financial matters, Thor. A line of credit is useful for me to buy stuff that I would otherwise have to wait for. Classic personal financial mismanagement, but fun. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 746 Registered: Feb-07 | Hopefully you've got a good interest rate, Nuck. |
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Bronze Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 94 Registered: Nov-07 | Thor since the CD5i.2 have moved on, you may want to update your profile adding the new CDP. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2565 Registered: May-05 | Guys, Keep in mind that Thorsten is from Germany, and English most likely isn't his native language. Some expressions don't translate very well to other languages. Combine that with words on a page and no way of seeing body language, and we have what we have here. Thorsten, You should probably keep that in mind as well. Congrats on your CD5x. Its a phenominal CD player. The SuperNait is supposed to be a good bit better than the Nait 5i. I haven't heard it to give my impression of the differences. But if you're still in upgrade mode and your Naim dealer is willing to let you haer a bunch of different things, you may want to try out a power supply with the CD5x as well. It may make a better difference and also cost less. Keep in mind that the power supply can also power different Naim gear if you want to upgrade again down the road. If you go with a power supply now, it can power your CD5x. If you then upgrade to a SuperNait or seperates, it power both the CD5x and a pre-amp or SuperNait. Also, have you heard the Naim seperates? The entry level seperates may sound better than the SuperNait for equal or less money. A good portion of the SuperNait's cost comes from its flexability like an internal DAC. The seperates may sound better. Having not heard the SuperNait, I can't say if it would better the seperates and how much better it sounds than the Nait 5i. If you have a definite use for the SuperNait's extras, it may make more sense. If not, the seperates may be better. Something tells me the power supply will be the biggest, cheapest, and most flexible upgrade. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2566 Registered: May-05 | One other thing... A power supply will not work with a Nait 5i. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 148 Registered: Oct-07 | Dear friends, thanks. I was rude and I apologized. Please be forgiving.... Dear Stu, I more and more think the same way.... Since i do have the need to use all that extra-cool stuff the SUPERNAIT offers...I stand on two options, if I can access my savings soon enough...lol... 1) CD5x/Flatcap2x/Hi-Line/NACA5/ARIVAs/NAIT 5i 2) CD5x/NAC122x/NAP150x/Hi-Line/NACA5/ARIVAs I tend to do the first, since the NAIT really is a good amp. Will he be able to handle the first combination of CD5x/Flatcap2x/Hi-Line or will he be the weak-point and diminish the experience, so-to-speak...? |
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Bronze Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 97 Registered: Nov-07 | Lux, A home demo will surely tell. Like you, I have grown to prefer one big box. After discussing this with my dealer he feels moving from Nait 5i to 122X/150X would not yield the big improvement that say a 202/200 would since the Nait 5i is soooo good. Option 1 without Hi-Line would get my vote. The Hi-line could be added later if you upgraded CD again. But when the time comes I will most likely end up with CD5X/FC2X/Nait5i. Ed |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 149 Registered: Oct-07 | Hmmm, thanx a lot. Honestly, my girlfriend also plays a big role in this, since 1) the units are in our living room and she doesnt really know HOW mucho the stuff costs...only hints...lol 2) I should be cautious with the money... So, adding 3 more units, removing the NAIT....she will most likely freak-out BIG TIME...which I can understand.... But adding a flatcap2x and a hi-line right now would be my thing. Then, in due course of time, changing the NAIT to a bigger combo would make sense to me...and I would have time to save up some more...lol... So, with the first option I would not "shoot the rhinoceros", I know, but it would be an improvement still, right??? Even if the Flatcap would be used only with the CD5x... So most probably I will go for this: CD5x/FC2x/Hi-Line/NAIT 5i-2/ARIVAs/NACA5 Love, Thor |
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Bronze Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 98 Registered: Nov-07 | Thor I may even have it better than you with respect to your girlfriend. My wife commented on my listening to more music lately, but still has not figured out or bothered to care that I replaced the Adcom Amp/Pre & Denon CDP with the Naim gear. Of course my listening area is not the living room so it makes things easier for the sake of upgrading. I'm thinking that the FC2X/Hi-Line will make a larger improvement than you think. My plan is add CD5X & FC2X together so I can really get that "WOW" from the upgrade. After that I'll home demo Hi-Line to see what improvements are gained. This plan of attack is what my dealer agrees with me on once savings are right. ATB Ed |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2568 Registered: May-05 | While the Hi-Line is an upgrade and can work with the 5 series gear, it wasn't designed with the 5 series in mind. It was meant for use with the 555 series. Its very expensive, and many feel its not worth it if you're using it with the 5 series. If the money's burning a hole in your pocket - the Hi-Line costs $1100 US - you may find things that'll give far better benefits and cost less money. Not that I'm saying all wires sound the same. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2569 Registered: May-05 | If money is really burning a hole in your pocket, you can get a Bentley with a Naim system factory installed later this year - |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1869 Registered: Nov-05 | Dear M.R., Please accept my humble apologies. No worries Thorsten - can you explain the differences the CD5X made over the CD5i Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2800 Registered: Sep-04 | Thorsten, I do hope you realize that you have upgradeitis very bad! The SuperNAIT is better than the 122x/150x/flatcap2x amplifier. It's not just a little better. It's a lot better. one of the most satisfying systems I have had the pleasure to play with is the CDX2/SuperNAIT/Allae system. Just three boxes and absolutely lovely, but then it should be given how much it costs! The idea of adding a HiLine to your current system comes very high in my book. The Flatcap2x is an interesting one - some people find a big difference by the addition of the power supply but some people do not find it makes much difference for them. generally i find it makes a very nice difference, but I think I'd go with the HiLine first - it really opens the window. ...with apologies to your lovely girlfriend... Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1871 Registered: Nov-05 | I was salivating at this CDX2 on Ebay here: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NAIM-CDX2-HIGH-END-AUDIOPHILE-CD-PLAYER-SOUNDS-AMAZING_W0 QQitemZ320231591423QQihZ011QQcategoryZ3272QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Trouble is my wife wants a holiday - much more than she'd want me to have this. It appears to be about 3 to 4 yrs old going by the serial number so I don't know if the price is right. Anyway, I'll dream on and leave this for Thorsten to ponder. (note the smiley Thor). |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 150 Registered: Oct-07 | Har har....good one, M.R... Go on Holiday...and have a wonderful time... So, according to you, Frank, it would be a vast difference if I would put on a Hi-Line to my current system...and then later in a few years (hahahahahaha) I could add either a big combo or the SuperNAIT...right? What would it mean to "open up the window"? Thanks |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 151 Registered: Oct-07 | Differences between the CD5i-2 and the CD5x: For information, still far into run-in-time... But i hear a more refined sound. The bass is wonderful. Very tight, not so "wobbly"...Clarity is just awesome. The soundstage got wider. The vocals have more "stomach"...more power. Turning up the volume does not result in strain...the 5i-2 sounded too digital and edgy at higher volumes. Female voices too. Too much condensed and a bit too much treble on the 5i, more space and again more "stomach"-power on the 5x. Separation of the instruments is better too. Awesome guitar-sound. Listening to "Jambi" (Tool- 10000 days) blows my ears away... Listening to the first attaks of AC/DCs "Back in black" brings you inbetween the guitar-riffs... Resumé: The CD5i-2 is a very very good CDP, but the CD5x can do everything better and yes, also the rhythm and the timing is more precise. More like Vinyl then CD... |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 152 Registered: Oct-07 | From Stu "If the money's burning a hole in your pocket - the Hi-Line costs $1100 US - you may find things that'll give far better benefits and cost less money. Not that I'm saying all wires sound the same." What would be those things that would give FAR better benefits, dear Stu??? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2575 Registered: May-05 | Frank states that the HiLine would give better results than a Flatcap. He has far more experience with this gear than I do, so I would give his opinion far more weight than mine. However, you should really audition both and decide for yourself. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 153 Registered: Oct-07 | Hi again! Just came back from my dealer... Checked out the following: 1) CD5x/NAIT5i-2/Totem ARRO Very good combination, like my home system, only that i love my ARIVAs much more soundwise. 2) CD5x/Hi-Line/NAIT5i-2/Totem Arro So, the moment arrived. Same as home, except Arro instead of ARIVAs and now Hi-Line interconnect. Yep, better. More open, warm, clear. Very nice. But not: WOW!!!! But not: !YEAH!!! Lets pay 848€ for this improvement. 3) CD5x/FC2x/NAIT 5i-2/Arro Wonderful. MUCH better to my ears than adding a Hi-line to a bare CD5x...more "everything". Great improvement. HERE: "WOW!" 4) CD5x/NAC 122x/NAP 150x/Arro Very very good, too. But not really THAT much better than the NAIT...slightly better. More dynamics, more soundstage...but again: no "wow"-effect. I am tending to go for the Flatcap 2x, since I can get it for 750€ with full 5 years warranty. The NAC 122x/NAP 150x-combo I could get for 1250€ (giving my NAIT in payment though). But I think better to buy the FC2x now and then make a bigger step some time later (bigger combo, SuperNAIT), since the difference between the NAIT and the smallest combo is evidently there, but a) I really like my NAIT and b) I found the adding of the FC2x the best improvement, money-wise too. Thank you Love, Thor |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 154 Registered: Oct-07 | Oh yes, I use now the Empire-rack in my AV-room... The IKEA "EINA", follow-up of the famous "CORRAS" sounds MUCH better, unbelievable... 150€ versus 19€, result is amazing.   |
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Bronze Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 100 Registered: Nov-07 | Good work Thor. Enjoy the music...... |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2809 Registered: Sep-04 | Everyone is different. I'd have expected the HiLine to open things up more than the Flatcap2x, but as I said in my original post, some people really get the Flatcap2x improvement and others prefer the HiLine improvement. The IKEA Corras is a really good inexpensive way to improve many people's systems. It's the lack of ferrous metal which helps. Congratulations on your latest acquisition Thorsten - what are you buying tomorrow? Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 155 Registered: Oct-07 | Ha, Frank, good one... I didnt buy the FC2x yet...hehehehe... I think the Hi-Line is the "creme" on top of a much better system... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9928 Registered: Dec-04 | Thor, you got it bad. I love it! |
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Bronze Member Username: James_lehmannPost Number: 60 Registered: Nov-06 | Aargh! Make it stop Thorsten please! Here I sit, totally broke and just barely settling in with my new Nait5i + CD5i combo which I'm absolutely loving and which I seem to recall we both purchased within days of each other, and now I gotta do something crazy just to keep up with you! Hmm... wonder if my dealer has a CDX2 + Supernait in stock I can demo? hehe! Buzz Lightyear was clearly talking about the Naim upgrade circus when he said "To infinity and beyond!". |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9940 Registered: Dec-04 | Hard to keep up with the Lux's, James. Maybe follow the Jones's. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9941 Registered: Dec-04 | The Naim stuff isn't flashy, doesn't show at all what it can do, but does it all very well. Nice and understated. Nice. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 156 Registered: Oct-07 | I admit. I am crazy. What can I do? I got the NAIM-flu... It is so nice, but has its price... What can I say? I guess I pay! Until the dough is getting low. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9942 Registered: Dec-04 | Hey Thor, You Seussed! |
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Silver Member Username: Scorpio1PA USA Post Number: 103 Registered: Nov-07 | Aha a poet is born. If its the Naim-flu, I'm never looking for the cure.  |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 776 Registered: Feb-07 | The Seuss was good. But how about that in a Haiku? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2585 Registered: May-05 | I have an Ikea Lack coffee table, which is basically the same thing as a Corras. I tried my system on it and was pretty impressed with it. I didn't think amps benefitted from isolation until then. I was kicking around the idea of getting a Corras shelf, bt it doesn't have enough side ventilation room for my B60. You should get spikes for the Corras Thorsten. They supposedly improve it a little more. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1209 Registered: May-06 | Thorsten, You did a nice job of listening to the variety of options. How long did you listen to each set up? What did you listen to on each one? |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 157 Registered: Oct-07 | Stu, the spikes are on, hardly visible, though. Michael, not THAT long, but for me long enough... We listened to "Katja Maria Werker", wonderful German lady-singer. Second song of her new CD. A very nice recording. Sure, I could have listened longer, but it was pretty much enough. Going to get the FC2x today....  |
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Bronze Member Username: James_lehmannPost Number: 61 Registered: Nov-06 | >> Going to get the FC2x today.... Incoming!... |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2812 Registered: Sep-04 | Thor, I have no words! Well, just those... Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 158 Registered: Oct-07 | Ooooooooooooooooops I did it again... Crazy nutcase I am.... The Flatcap 2x really makes the CD5x even better....awesome. Again , more of everything: More punch, bass, dynamics, clarity... I realize the improvement especially in the vocals and in the separating of the instruments... All seems to be more focused with more underlying fundament... YEAH |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 160 Registered: Oct-07 | Yesterday I had a Hi-line at home.... What can I say...welcome, new family member... By the way...end of budget...NOW. Not broke, but now "GAME OVER". Happy Thor |
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Platinum Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2820 Registered: Sep-04 | What can I say? I knew it...I just knew you couldn't resist the HiLine. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 162 Registered: Oct-07 | Nope, this frigging cable is so good... Really, if one has the money...its a no-no-no brainer. Just listened to Amy Winehouse´s "Back to black", which always sounded too digital before...now very very nice and warm. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9996 Registered: Dec-04 | Thor, you have all of audio nirvana and a wife still? Sweeeeeeeeet! |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 163 Registered: Oct-07 | Man, she doesnt know how much the stuff is worth.... She also couldnt care less...as long enough money is still there on the side for whatever... And there is.... Next year: Supernait, ahahahahhahaha |
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Platinum Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2828 Registered: Sep-04 | Thor, Did your dealer tell you how to prepare the HiLine before insertion? You need to render it quite floppy. By default the HiLine is quite stiff and needs to be worked a bit to lay flat and naturally by bending it on itself in 'S' shapes until it just lies without any kinks and without any stiffness. Then connect it up, hopefully without it resting on any other cables or items so the airplugs can do their work best. Ensure you don't start bending at the airplugs! They will break. Start just after the plug... Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 165 Registered: Oct-07 | Dear Frank, thanx. I am very happy about the Hi-line. It is totally "run-in", since it was the main cable on the biggest system in their shop...connected to the 555...lol. It is pretty smooth and soft. But I am not able to leave it hanging "free fall". From the CDP it hangs very nicely and free down to the wooden board which serves as a boundary to the floor. There it snakes around, resting on a little niche and then goes in the NAIT. No other possibility. So it is not touching anything except wood. Both ends can be moved freely, the air-plugs are under no pressure at all. That is the best I can do...I cant go any more crazy, believe me. The sound is already SO friggin awesome... I got nice spikes for the EINA-rack and I made an isolation platform with a MDF-wooden shelf, resting on those nice spikes...picture follow tomorrow. Pic Absorber Maxi, Premium-line...the big ones. Sound is now even more detailed and fresh. Tighter. |
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