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New member Username: Geo123Post Number: 5 Registered: Jan-08 | I am looking for a HT sound system and walked into some high end HIFI stores and was seduced by the amazing quality and sound by some reputable labels. The first was Definitive Technology speakers (mythos 8) and supercube sub with an AVR-350 Arcam receiver. = $10,000 Wow! Amazing sound in both video and audio. The second was B&W 8 Series SCMS speakers with a Rotel RSX-1067 = $10,000 again, amazing sound! The less $ alternative (which I didn't listen to) was the Paradigm Millenia 20 speakers and a Cambridge Audio 640R = $7,000 so what do you think? Is the less expensive system that inferior in quality? Any help is appreciated! |
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New member Username: BoozeaddledPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-08 | Man, I've been all over the internet looking to answer the same question you're asking: How do I buy the best quality for my money without being tricked into something inferior by sonic semantics or marketing? I was totally set to build a system with B&W 704's and the Arcam 350 amp, but I'm also considering the Paradigm Studio 60's with an Antehm or Cambridge amp. Problem is, I can't just walk into one store and listen to both side by side and make a fair decision. B&W is represented in this city by a small, privately owned store that is 25 years of top end top dollar selling. Great shop, great sound, but the owners were almost appauled or condesending that I would dare compare B&W to Paradigm. They made it sound like only a madman would put these two in the ring together and call it "fair". My suspicion is that, maybe, in a blind listening contest, I would choose the Paradigm and save myself a pile of money. Money is not my main concern, as I intend to buy a system for music and movies that will keep me happy for the next 10 years. Just like I did last time. And last time, I was selling the equipment and did very well with a modest budget. I'm just ready for that next step. What did you end up doing? Has anyone ever answered the question in a satisfactory manner for you? I'll tell you what I think in about 3 days, as I'm going to listen to the two systems mentioned above, on the same day at their seperate locations, to gain a better perspective of all that I have read. Sounds to me like you can't possibly screw anything up with the short-list you've got. Excellent taste. I can't find a stitch of bad news on that Arcam. Really, it's the only piece out there that so many people dare to say "cannot be bested". But is Cambridge really that much worse? I'll tell you on Wednesday. Tell me how your research is coming. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 197 Registered: Jul-07 | I can't answer your question directly, as I haven't heard any of those combinations. I'm sure they all sound quite excellent. I just can't help feel that you could get most or all of the same sound reproduction at a fraction of that cost. Perhaps others here more into HT can offer some opinions and/or options. |
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New member Username: BoozeaddledPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-08 | Yeah, Chris, they all do sound excellent. However, I don't think your "fraction of that cost" idea is going to work here. What I mean is that I took my current Paradigm speakers and compared them to some B&W's worth - I don't know - say, $800 more - and there was murder. My speakers got killed. Well, good, I suppose, because now I understand what type of leap forward in soundstage and clarity I'm getting. Then I took the B&W's and compared them to the next step up - again, big difference. Then I stopped. The next price jump was too much to handle. And, it goes on and on and on... I know Jose is talking about a large amount of coin, but unless the fraction you are talking about is 7/10th's, you can't really cut too many corners and expect the same ballpark of sound. Won't even be the same sport. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 199 Registered: Jul-07 | Perhaps you're right. I know you could get darn good sound for half that. Whether it would match up to your expectations I can't answer. I'm envious of anyone who can throw that much money at a new system. I'd love to have that hi-fi budget. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2593 Registered: May-05 | To be honest, I doubt those speakers will perform anywhere near their potential if you're using a receiver. I'd go down a level in speakers, and get seperates instead of a receiver. While these are very good receivers, seperates will have cleaner power and more drive than the receivers will. They can't compete with seperates. The end product will probably be better overall. The 704s and Studio 60s aren't easy loads on amplification. They have difficult impedence swings. Also make sure you have a good source. If not, it doesn't matter how good the amplification and speakers are. They can't make something out of nothing. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1304 Registered: Jun-07 | Stu is right, a power amp is a must for speakers like Studio 60's or the 704's. Even if your stuck with a receiver already, use it as a pre amp. Although A full fledge Pre amp would be ideal. |
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New member Username: BoozeaddledPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-08 | Nick K & Stu Pitt: Yeah, that's the thought process I want! Sounds like I'm more or less on the right track. Word around the campfire says the Arcam 350 will drive these speakers just fine, though. Much of this decision is based on that information being reliable. I refer you to the following article: http://www.iar-80.com/page140.html Tomorrow I go to compare the Studio 60s to the 704's. I have a selection of music picked out, and a place to listen to both speakers side by side. If I'm lucky, we'll have them hooked up to the Arcam 350. Once I choose my speaker preference, I will reconsider the power source. Speaking of source, Stu's comment begs the question, "What is the best dvd player you can think of - which will also play music cd's and dvd audio from time to time - for under $600?" Last thing about the new choice in speakers: I still have the Paradigm performance series 5seMK3's I bought in 1998. They did well. I liked them quite a bit - but I'm ready for the next step. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1305 Registered: Jun-07 | The Studio 60's are a definite step up from the 5seMK3's(now known as the MOnitor 5's, although the MK3's are much better) The Studio 60's are a whole new ball game. As I think the Arcam 350 WILL be able to power the 60's, you will still benefit from a separate power amp. Cheers. |
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New member Username: Geo123Post Number: 9 Registered: Jan-08 | Hey Kim, I've been out of touch for a while. I got so frustrated by all the different opinions out there that I decided to just out my decision off for a while. I think for aesthetic reasons and performance of course if i were to get speakers now it would be the Def-Techs. They sound and look amazing and the reviews speak for themselves. But You gotta drop 5 G's and that's a lot for how much I use them. Funny thing about the receiver is, going back to the same store a diff. salesperson recommended the top of the line Yamaha and a guy at the B&W store the Denon! Go figure, now I am really confused. Let me know how your system sounds and good luck! |
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New member Username: BoozeaddledPost Number: 4 Registered: Mar-08 | Jose, Again, we're both in a similar situation. I paused from my considerations to allow for clear persepctive. Going back to things again, I took a pair of Paradigm Studio 60's from one store and put them side by side with B&W 704's to compare them directly. I will return to this in a moment. The recommendation of Yamaha and Deonon is not a bad thing. I don't think either salesman had hidden motives of any kind. However - and this is a big but - they may be suggesting these options due to FEATURES and not pure sound quality. I can say without hesitation, and back up the argument, that the Arcam 350 is the best SOUNDING amp. In fact, I can also say, without hyperbole, that it is ten thousand times better than anything in it's price range. Read the review I posted a link for above. Read it twice. Three times. Once the information sinks in (it's a fairly complex and detailed analysys) go and listen for yourself. The Arcam doesn't do much but sound great. That's it's job. Not a bunch of video switching. Not a bunch of inputs and outputs you'll never use. Not 50 DSP modes. You put in a cd or dvd, IT. SOUNDS. SPECTACULAR. Back to the speakers: I asked permission of the second store to bring in comparison speakers, and they were fine with it. But upon begining to set up, they suddenly made me feel like a real wanker for doing something so "unorthidox". As uncomfortable as I was in this store with the owners, I decided I owed it to myself before spending $5000 - $7000 to be certain. I'll spare you the labour and show you the baby: there was murder. The B & W's crushed the Studio 60's in terms of range, clarity and use of negative space. If you want to know why I think this, ask me specific questions and I will try to reply effectively. The system in mind is set: B & W 704's with the Arcam 350. If my local store had treated me with respect and given me at least some "warm and fuzzies" that every consumer deserves...well, it would all be in my living room right now. As for the reality: I think I'll wait until my next trip to a city where I have another choice of dealer. Get out there and compare, Jose. Take your own music. Don't let people F with you. It's your money, your ears, your living room, your records. Pick what sounds best to you, spend as much as possible to get quality and enjoy it all for the next 15 years. Regards from Canada, Kim |
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Platinum Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2603 Registered: May-05 | "Get out there and compare, Jose. Take your own music. Don't let people F with you. It's your money, your ears, your living room, your records. Pick what sounds best to you, spend as much as possible to get quality and enjoy it all for the next 15 years." That's the best advice anyone can give. Nothing else matters. In regards to the Studio 60 vs 704, I tend to disagree. But, its a personal thing. I've heard them both side by side on the same system numerous times. But, that system didn't have an Arcam AVR in it (it was Rotel seperates). I'd choose the Studio 60 any day, even though I don't think the Studio 60s blew them away. I've said a few times that I'd be very happy wityh either speaker in the setup I heard, but I thought the Studio 60 was a little better to my ears. Again, I haven't heard them with Arcam gear, and system synergy is a very big and real thing. But how I heard them, Paradigm beat them out. What does this mean? Everyone listens for different things. The Arcam receiver is an exceptional receiver. Its an audiophile's receiver much in the way a '72 Porsche 914 is a driver's car. Bare minimum as far as creature comforts, but phenominal handling, response, acceleration, and everything else that goes into pure car driving. The Arcam AVRs are the Porsche 914. Everything you absolutely need, and nothing you don't. Performance is second to a very select few. |