I couldn't take the fatigueing highs I've been listening, to the point that my wife is making fun, and trying to enjoy, but any amount of volume got my head to throbbing. So, I went and auditioned a pair of Paradigm Studio 20's. I brought my CD's to the shop, and listened. Since I am usure of the source of the problem, AVR or Speakers, I was less than excited about dropping $875 to see. (The shop doesn't do home demo's, but does give me a 30 day return policy) So, no speakers, no answers, and a little let down.
I came home and pulled my Carver Receiver again. Using only logic, I deduced that if the BA Towers didn't make my ears bleed with the Carver in the great room, how could they be the problem? I connected both sets of my Paradigm Micros (V1 & V3) to a speaker selector thru the HK AVR, and I connected the NAD 525 to the Carver then directly to the BA Towers. Put the ear wrenching Queen CD in and listened. The highs weren't as forward, but still crisp and clear. The mids seemed to fill in where they were lost with the HK. Then the bass kicked in. Not as deep as the sub, obviously, but it was clear and I could feel it. The best part was that when I turned up the volume, it just played louder, not annoying. So, thanks to Jan, 'compelling' me to listen, I think that I've not only found the issue, but I also think that I am finding what I like! (Crisp highs, filling mids, and clear bass) That's what I feel I'm hearing right now, although I understand that I can probably get more with an upgrade of speakers. (Can't miss what I don't have, right?) I then played the same CD thru the HK/Paradigm setup(s), and although, not as bright, it wasn't as detailed nor as enjoyable through either set of Micros w/sub.
So, after all that, I've come to the conclusion that my next move will be an amp/pre. So, again, Jan was right about the issues of a dual system. Now, I'm going to mention brands and models, but only due to what is available to me from my dealer, from what I've researched, and what is within my budget. I still have a lot to learn about amps/pres in general, so that's where this question is coming from. If you would like to ignore the brands & models, and recommend features & specs to look for that in my price range, I would appreciate that greatly, also. It's a short list, but here goes:
1) Anthem PVA2/TLP1 - Very good writeups, upper end of my price range at around $1,600 msrp. A little concerned about the 105wpc - 150wpc peak. Not sure if the jump from 80 - 105 is worth the expense, and also with my limited reading on headroom, that there may be better options available. I read info on wpc on the Axiom site, and have a better understanding now. (80 - 105 isn't even going really give me a subtle 3db increase according to that) That being said, I am also keeping an eye on Agon for a used MCA 20, which is 220wpc, and also has good reviews.
2) NAD 272/162. Also very good reviews and from the specs, more power (150wpc) and headroom (230 dynamic). It also has the 2 inputs, of which one is variable. This setup is a little less expensive than the Anthem also.
The Anthem sounds good to me with Paradigm, and should since they are related companies. I've read the NAD also works well with Paradigm, but my dealer didn't have a NAD setup at the shop to audition.
Basically I have fairly efficient speakers that won't be upgraded for a year or 3. I have dedicated the Carver as my second system for now, and don't mind it all, so it will stay for a while, just fishing for more info, or direction in the meantime.
The funny part is that I had a stack of unused components laying around. Now I have but one unused receiver, an HK330i, which was my first. I may have to look into setting that up in my office!
Do I understand correctly that you are basing some of your decisions on a poorly recorded disc?
Let's work on another analogy, TT. You twist your ankle doing something you shouldn't be doing. The dr. prescribes some pain medication and tells you to wrap the joint for additional support. You think this is a good idea and begin the medication and conclude that if the additional support is good for the damaged joint, it will be beneificial for all your joints. So you wrap everything. Both ankles, both knees, your elbows, wrists, back, shoulders, neck, ears, your cat, etc.
And you keep on doing what you shouldn't have done in the first place.
After awhile, you get used to taking the medication and your joints get used to not doing the work. Finally the dr. tells you what you've done has made your joints weaker, not stronger and you're hooked on the medication. So now you listen and you remove the wraps and stop the medication. You walk out on your front porch, start to jones for the meds and your knees give out. You fall off the porch and break your neck and die. Your kids get the inheritance and never come visit your grave.
Same thing as getting your system to sound good on crappy recordings.
I can address point number (2) to a degree. I ran the NAD 272/Paradigm combination for about 8 months or so and I HATED the sound of the two together. Mind you, I was running Monitor 7's - The Studio series are a cut above and would undoubtedly sound much better.
Jan, LOVE! the analogy, but I think what I'm really saying is that I don't think it was due to the crappy recording. Jan, you're ability to be thought provoking has no bounds. I'm up to medical, photography, and hifi analogies.
Are you really saying that my Carver Receiver is soooooo bad that it makes good recordings sound crappy and bad recordings sound good???? And, if that's true, I would think that replacing it would be a good direction??? I listened to all the songs that I've been playing, and, in my opinion they sound fuller and more detailed with the current combination. I will speculate that this is due to the majority of the tracks were female vocals with a couple instruments. Freddy Mercury's voice isn't as soothing or smooth as Jewel's or Alicia Key's. Add in the Orchestra in Bohemian and there's a lot going on. Also, my AVR receiver won't go into true stereo mode (or I can't figure out how). I put it into bypass mode, but when I go to the OSD and change the crossovers they still work, which means, theororetically, that no speaker can play lower than 40hz.
Seriously, Jan, the info that you've provided, made me think about, and research has been quite helpful. As I said above, I'm going to live with the current 4 systems I have. (I can't even type that without laughing) I'm pretty much sold on the next step being seperates, but I'll still have a lot of research to do. For now I'm just looking for some "Cliffs Notes" so I have a little insight.
D. Mitchell, what did you HATE about the sound combination????
David- THe NAD/Paradigm match up is well known to be a good one. So I am surprised by your findings. Also remember, you mean you hated the Pioneer/NAD/Source??/Paradigm MOnitor combo. BUt you liked the Pioneer/Outlaw/Source?? Paradigm monitor combo. Too many people forget about the pre amp and souce has a huge effect on the whole combination. You C272's are head and heals better in the SQ department than any Pioneer receiver. Your sound is only as good as your weakest link. Adding the outlaw's, perhaps, added something to the combination that you liked. Still didn't cut it though with the Pioneer...therefore u changed speakers. NAD, wasn't just the problem, its the whole course of pieces together. Perhaps NAD/Pioneer is bad with Paradigms. NAD is knows to have a great synergy with Paradigm speakers, as well as MA's. I sure do like those MA's though buddy, their sweet.
I will fully concur that using the Pioneer receiver as a pre in my system is the weak link. But, as I've posted before, I really quite liked the Pioneer-Outlaw-Paradigm combo. The Pioneer-NAD-Paradigm combo I did not. What I found with this combination is that the sound was a little muddy/sloppy (if there is such a thing). It just didn't sound tight and crisp like the Outlaw 2200 did. As well as that, and what I found even worse, was that mid-range sounded artificial, almost muffled.
Would it have sounded better with a better pre-amp? Most likely.
That being said, the Pioneer-NAD-Monitor Audio combination is quite good, and my speakers aren't even broken in yet :-) The mid-range is pretty sweet and I'm actually hearing things in my music that I'd not heard before.
I really liked the Paradigm/Rotel much better than Paradigm/NAD. Has better drive and life for my ears. I'd really like to hear Paradigm/Cambridge...could be interesting.
I guess im a "flat" sound kind of guy. Although the Studio Monitors are much better than the Monitor line. Either way, I enjoy my combo at the moment. Art, I will let you know what I think of the Mira3/Paradigm Studio Monitor combo in a few days, as I have ordered it this Saturday. Should be in mid week. I heard Cambridge with Paradigm, I liked it. Never heard Rotel and Paradigm. David, I have heard NAD/MA more times than I can count, I thought it sounded great every time I heard it.Enjoy.
You guys rock! I just took a quick break from playing my youngest's x-box 360, (103" projection thru my HK home theater very low) while playing cd's thru my Carver 732/Nad 525 thru BA 930T's. All I can say is that myself and my wife are enjoying every song. My youngest decided to go to bed, she doesn't like our music choices.
I think I'm going to enjoy my remedial taste in components right now. I may drop the $ on new seperates soon, but hope to get some more detailed feedback. I may just stay where I'm at and enjoy. As far as the info I've got on this site, so far so good, I know the NAD 525 is no Rega, but it sure was a big step in in the right direction for me.
TT - All I meant was you should use well recorded material for settting up your system. Trying to get the best sound from a bad recording is like tweaking the carbs for wet weather/high altitude and then taking the car to the desert without making adjustments. If you base your decisions on material that sounds as life like as possible, then you should be able to get the most out of the broadest selection of recordings.
