Archive through March 16, 2007
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1234 Registered: Mar-05 | That is why I put the question mark after that statement. After listening some more it seems that even though the gain is decreased the fidelity (don't know what words to give this) is increased. This is a great tube to be sure. Now playing is Anne-Sophie Mutter playing Beethoven's Violin Concertos and the range seems to be just as fluid as I have ever heard. Good stuff. On a side note : "JC - You know how I hate to disagree" Jan I have to disgree with that statement. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1235 Registered: Mar-05 | I also have to disagree with myself on how to spell disagree. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2761 Registered: Dec-03 | Actually lower gain in a stage be it tubes or anything else can and usually does make for lower noise and a cleaner signal. As any amplifying device has a power supply amung other things introducing grunge into the signal path which can be quite a bit and very noisy not to mention the device it'self like a tube just sitting there and running full boar without even having signal present has noise it'self so a lower gain device it'self "can" be quieter then a higher gain one for sure. Now once a signal is present the signal it'self boosted by the amplifying device may or may not be quieter and cleaner depending on how quiet and clean they are compaired to each other with no signal. But by lowering the noise floor in a piece to start with (possably with a lower gain tube) should give you the cleaner signal in the end. In otherwords the math tells you a lower gain device is quieter when no signal is present, but if the inherint device is noisier to start with than the higher gain device it may be a wash or even worse. I generally believe 5751's are quieter then 12ax7's as an amplifiying device then you add the slightly lower gain usually spells a much quiter signal all the way around. Quiet passages in music are quieter, backgrounds are blacker then any difference in sonic signature can take over as well. The gain difference between the 2 is usually pretty small in any given piece, but as Jan said another benefit to this (if your piece still has sufficiant gain) is you can turn the pot up higher while getting the same volume as before to where now the previous piece "can" see a better load to run into. As I siad it's not allways an "upgrade" to run a 5751 instead of a 12ax7 but the chances for success I believe are quite high. But it also comes down to how much and in what way the change may have affected the tone of the piece as well. I believe all the way around a 5751 is a better "sounding" tube then a 12ax7 but in some circumstances it won't be. Some may still prefer the sound of a 12ax7 over a 5751 if they like the sound they produce in the first place, I happen to prefer the 5751 and think it sounds better. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1238 Registered: Mar-05 | After listening to it all day I do like the sound. It reaches lower than all my other 12ax7's (except for the Sovtek 12ax7wb which has a boosted lower end and sounds like shite in all other areas) while maintaining awesome midrange. I guess I prefer this tube to any I have tried. I have not purchased any pre tube over $30 though and maybe a Mullard or a Telefunken may change my mind, but I am not prepared to spend over a hundred to try it. Playing YES - 90125 and now these babies are showing their true colors. Have been in the office in the next room working all day but I had to go in there and sit and listen. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1239 Registered: Mar-05 | Here is the tube in case anyone is interested. http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-5751jan.html |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9617 Registered: May-04 | . " ... once a signal is present ... " Aye, there's the rub! The music! You've got to get "X" amount of voltage through the amplifier to get "X" amount of volume from your speakers. If you listen at the same volume with the lower gain tube, the voltage has to be made up somewhere in the loop. Either you're driving the pre amp to higher voltage or you're making it up in the output stages. It's somewhat like running a Klipschorn or a LS3/5a off a tube amp. The Klipsch has such high efficiency that you hear the circuit noise at idle but it requires very little voltage to get the signal to jump. The 3/5a is so inefficient you don't hear the noise at idle but you have to push the amp harder to get volume. Quiet passages get swamped in circuit noise through the Klipsch while loud passages get close to the amp's limits on the mini-monitor. It's all a trade and you get to decide where you want to trade A for B. If the sound is better, then there's a case for making the trade out. . |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1243 Registered: Mar-05 | Worth the time and money switching out the driver stage (12at7) tubes in the Jolida? Heard that was waste of time and concentrate on preamp stage. I currently have the ecc81 JJ tesla version in there now. Just seeing that NOS 12at7's are a steal when compared to the ax7 versions. Any thoughts? |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2762 Registered: Dec-03 | I hate to sound like a broken record, but if you do some good searching you'll see many feel the 12at7 isn't that great of a tube either and I feel pretty much the same way. A lot of times I'll sub a 6829, e180cc or 5965 in there place with very good results. Most these tubes go for peanuts as there no longer made and no one builds any new equipment that is based on a roughly 45 gain tube with the same pinout as the 12at7,12au7,12ax7 I use them in some of my builds be it rebuilds or new creations, I find these great tubes for the money and feel very glad most either don't know about them or just pass um up for there usual suspects and pay more doing so.  Generally the first tube "can" have a more profound effect on the sound/performance of a piece then the rest of them will, but all the tubes do make up the sound of a piece so yah other tubes besides the driver may make a pretty nice difference, won't know till yu try um. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1244 Registered: Mar-05 | 5965a would be a safe choice for the driver stage on the Jolida in your opinion Keg? Here is one for cheap. http://store.triodestore.com/5965age.html |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2763 Registered: Dec-03 | Yes I believe that tube should sub in just fine on your amp. Only issue I've had with the 3 previous 45mu/gain tubes mentioned are microphonics, it hasn't been an incurable one with good isolation though. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1247 Registered: Mar-05 | Thanks for the advice Keg, just ordered them. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1248 Registered: Mar-05 | Maybe if you are interested, we could work a deal where I take out boards that have caps on them inside amp and ship to you for upgrade someday if you want? Save me shipping and some labor costs. Or maybe just do old fashioned way and send you whole amp and work out a deal for upgrades that way. If you are interested of course. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2764 Registered: Dec-03 | We could probably figure something out, shoot me an email when the time comes. In the meantime get your tube choices down and some good listening on it stock. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5210 Registered: Dec-04 | I ordereed Sovtek EL84M tubes from Tube Depot in a matched quad. $75C delivered is about the best price I could find, without putting premium gas in a Yugo. The one channel with good tubes leaves me 2 EL84's left over. Is there any use in keeping them? What happens if I split these 2 with 2 Sovtek's, one in each channel? Or just shitcan the old ones? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9625 Registered: May-04 | . Keep the old, working tubes as spares to use when checking for faults that could destroy a better tube. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5224 Registered: Dec-04 | Faults? What could go wrong with my 190$ chinese amp? I will keep the el cheapo's. What is El cheapo in Chinese? Other than what I have. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9630 Registered: May-04 | . "What is El cheapo in Chinese?" #2 with an eggroll. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5227 Registered: Dec-04 | hehehe |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1272 Registered: Mar-05 | I have some Sovtek 6550's for the Jolida. They are nice but a little "slow" for my tastes. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5246 Registered: Dec-04 | What did the 6550's replace, JC? |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1274 Registered: Mar-05 | Actually they were stock in the J, I replaced them with EH kt88's. Much nicer tube for my application. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5250 Registered: Dec-04 | Are the EH kt88's so smooth? I have a link to a tube guy in Detroit?I think. He has a lot of stuff, Mullards, too. Lemme find that, he had a set of matched quads for like $700, I think. Kegger must know him. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5251 Registered: Dec-04 | http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?accstube&1171852061 There it is. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1275 Registered: Mar-05 | I like them, only paid $100 for a quad. Much better than the Sovteks in my op. Well defined low end compard to the Sov's and much better detail in the mids and highs. I wouldn't spend $700 on tubes though. That's the level at which I would have to agree with Jan on. Go ahead and do mods on the amp before spending that kind of money on just tubes. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5254 Registered: Dec-04 | Fair enough. Have to hit the wall somewhere. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1276 Registered: Mar-05 | Ok, now I am really confused. I have been playing the new 5965a's in the driver stage of the Jolida this morning and love the sound. I now have 5751 for pre amp and 5965 for driver stage for the front end on this amp. No one but Keg has given me suggestions on substituting tubes for the ones supposedly needed for the amp. This amp now has much more detail and strength especially in the midrange and such a difference in soundstage(seems wider and deeper). Why would the tube shops not suggest this type of swap if it sounds this much better. I am not kidding when I say that the combination of these two substitutes make a big noticeable difference. Is it because they don't make any money off of these tube types? Oh well. thanks Keg and I really hope someone else can try this kind of swap soon. For the record, total spent $52 for the four tubes and $14 for shipping (since it was two sep orders) not bad. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5257 Registered: Dec-04 | JC, why do the shops not suggest this swap for the best sound? Simple. You are better than most shops for your kit. So is Kegger. A big pat on the back for a job well done, at a great price, and for sharing. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5264 Registered: Dec-04 | Well, I hopped oout of the shower, only to see the Purolator guy driving away. I checked the front door, and found the dreaded 'nobody home' slip taped there. I have to go 100km to the depot, so I tossed on some duds and chased the guy around town. In my slippers. Found the truck, the guy nearly died laughing, I forgot a hat. Nice. But I now have the Sovtek EL84's in the kit. If these only get better with time, I must say that is a kickass combo. The Ling's have finally found the sweet spot. The smooth mids have been complimented with a snap in the 60-80 range that is quite sharp for guitar transitions, EC unplugged, in particular. I like it! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5269 Registered: Dec-04 | The new tubes take like a minute to glow up, as opposed to the old ones(10 seconds). Tim's Lings are terrific in this config! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5278 Registered: Dec-04 | Aww but ain't that America... |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1284 Registered: Mar-05 | Here is one for you when you get the bug again: http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_28&products_id=57&osCsi d=9f139e8c6a4cb396ba2d767ee5b922e7 |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5281 Registered: Dec-04 | Good link, JC. I will look for EL84's |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5285 Registered: Dec-04 | This little tuber has a lot of shine to it. Recommended at the price! With Slovtek EL 84's. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1043 Registered: Nov-05 | I can see you chasing down that truck, Nuck and I'm rotfl! Glad the amp is working out with those Lings. Sounds like you did it again! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5290 Registered: Dec-04 | No Ducky heads on the slippers, though. But good for the offering! Gawd, I look like a weenie! |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1295 Registered: Mar-05 | The tube/monitor combos are so full of character don't you think Nuck? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5306 Registered: Dec-04 | Yes I do, JC. I am very pleased with the tube roll results. The sound is very lively, and the bass is less muddled now, even with the poor speaker placement. For the investment involved, a listener with a good ear would guess a lot more went into this. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2765 Registered: Dec-03 | JC my guess as to why tube shops wouldn't suggest those tubes is they just don't know about them so they just suggest what is the norm or more used types of tubes. That's what's great about designing your own is you don't have to build with the more "expensive" and widely used tubes and can build with the cheaper lessar used tubes. You can experiment with a tube that has the parameters that suit what you want to do. Many manufacturers and tube sellars alike will not use or sell many tubes that are no longer being produced for fear of differences in there products when they have to switch to something else and tell there customers they can only buy NOS tubes for there gear. But we as customers or builders are not constrained to only using the "audio" tubes! There are many great hidden/secret tubes out there that are truly great cheap tubes. I have to bite my tounge sometimes not to promote many of them to keep the secret. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1310 Registered: Mar-05 | Man! I tell ya. Horns sound sooooooo good on a tube setup. Wether it's in Talk Talk's "give it up" or in the sacd Baroque music for brass and organ, they just sound so pleasing. There is a certain harshness that a horn gives out that is translated terribly in most SS setups that I have heard. Granted I have not heard super high end SS amps but there we go. Had a rough day and the wife wanted to watch some E hollywood crap so I came down here to the "man room" ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5362 Registered: Dec-04 | Welcome back to the 'man room', JC. I am embarrased to not even have a pinup pic for you. HOWEVER, anyone interested in a busload of military tubes? http://crownassets.pwgsc.gc.ca/search/ItemInfo.cfm?Language=ENGLISH&LOT_CONTRACT _NO=147350&LOT_CONTRACT_TYPE=L Huh? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9634 Registered: May-04 | . Canadian military!? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5373 Registered: Dec-04 | Jumbo shrimp. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9635 Registered: May-04 | . How about a proven tweak for all your gear? http://www.vibrapod.com/ Last night I replaced the spike/coin/pumice stone/thick rubber construct under my Mac amplifiers with a set of Vibrapods and found it to be money/time well spent. The improvements are exactly what the company claims. The immediately apparent improvement came in the bass response where the extension, weight and tone brought forth from the LS3/5a's four inch woofer was welcome. For those of you with the "Emma Demo" disc to use as a reference, the response was now a smooth, waning declination beyond the previous limit at the mid thirties and now into the upper twenty Hz range. But, the benefits extend through the entire frequency bandwidth and are evenly balanced throughout. The pods did not change the basic character of the Macs, their improvement was merely an enhancement of the amplifiers' already pleasurable qualities. Cymbals, bells, gongs, etc, were cleaner with a more tightly defined metalic leading edge. Ambient decays were excellent in all regions but quite noticeable at the frequency extremes. The big Telarc drum had more impact and the cymbals on Fanfare for the Common Man obtained a more expansive reverberation. "Shimmer" and "transparency" are the words for the improvement in the high frequencies and more "round" or "woody" double bass, cello and bass strings on an acoustic guitar is what you'll hear at the lowest octaves. Rounded instrument tone, however, is accompanied by the more well defined pull or draw of the string. Drum heads are drawn just a bit more taut and have an additional resonance that helps define which drum type/brand is being struck. PRaT is improved and musical lines are separated out while becoming more cohesively tied together with a common movement forward amongst the performers. Everyone has had an additional rehearsal together and improvisational lines have a smidge more lift to their flight. Alberta Hunter is clearly enjoying the companionship of her fellow musicians with the Vibrapods in place. Layering is improved in massed instruments and voices. Most importantly for me, voices are pulled out of the mix without being forced forward or artificially brightened. Words and phrases that before had fallen away into the common mix are now defined and better articulated. To my pleasure the Vibrapods brought forth a more refined ability of the system to define thought, intent, talent, ability and momentum in a vocalist or instrumentalist in order to enhance and explore the nuance and performance style of the individual or the group. Frank and Elvis were just a bit more dynamic in front of the beat while Blossom and Ella were more evidently in control behind the moment. Arlo was all the more empathic when singing about the old grey men riding the train they call the City of New Orleans. All this from 65 lb. Mac tube amplifiers that don't like most attempts at damping. The Vibrapods are not, in my brief experience, however, a plop and drop tweak. Since the tubes and other gear in my system have already been tweaked with isolation/coupling/damping techniques, the addition of the Vibrapods was a good/bad effect at first. I suggest you buy the complementary cones and be ready to experiment with what you hear. Have some additional items as described on the company's web site available to use in order to tune the system to your taste and needs. Placement of the pods under power transformers and sensitive components will give various results concomitant with your skills at listening to the subtle effects of a few inches movement here or there. I finally ended last night with the pods slightly decoupled from the bottom plate of my amplifiers and at not quite the outer limits of the amplifier's base plate. Further damping in the pre amp was adjusted to bring the performance into focus and increase the depth of field. Some new high temperature O-rings were installed on the pre amp tubes and their sockets after I became fairly familiar with the Vibrapods' effects, but I found I had purchased too many O-rings based on the needs of the system prior to the pod's arrival. The heavier rings were more than I needed to bring the system to life and the lighter/thinner rings were moved up the tubes' enclosure to get a bit less damping effect which tends to squash dynamics. There is still more experimentation to be done and more pods/cones to be ordered. The effect, however, is striking and can be easily reversed or altered to suit. The pods come with a 30 day trial and 10% of all company profuits are donated to worthy charities. Buy more of the pods in a lighter weight bearing number rather than fewer of the higher numbers and experiment. The Vibrapod sandwich is probably a good thing to expect you will at least try, so buy those materials in advance also. These are very cost effective tweaks that have now replaced items I've used for years with great success. If you are experimenting you might find what you assumed to be good sound prior to the Vibrapods is now out of kilter with the addition of the pods. In general more light damping devices are usually better than a few heavy attempts at such. Don't assume the "absolute polarity" of the system is correct or the AC polarity to all components is right. Make adjustments and listen. Since one of my speakers must be moved into place for each listening session, I got out the tape measure/laser level to assure proper speaker set up. For a few dollars you can pick up an AC cirucit tester to assure proper wiring before you set out to tweak your set up. It's a bit early for the annual reminder to do a spring cleaning on your system, but paying attention to these details as you tweak and listen will pay off in larger benefits for the few dollars you pay for the pods. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5385 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, Jan. I wil put a pot of tea on, then re-read your volumenous posting once again. As usual, thank you for sommore to think on! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9636 Registered: May-04 | . If it has not been stated, do not apply any "rubber" type of damping ring to power amplifier tubes. The tubes get far too hot for most devices and will melt the ring onto the surface of the tube envelope. Damping rings should only be used on pre amp or low level tubes - such as a DAC. I got my set from a gasket company and these particular 0-rings are good to approx. 400-450 °. I think Nuck had mentioned this source before also. The thin pieces cost $0.98 @ and the thicker rings were $3.00 @. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5390 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi-Viton is the material to use. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1065 Registered: Nov-05 | "Alberta Hunter is clearly enjoying the companionship of her fellow musicians with the Vibrapods in place." Yes, and the audience is not amused. [grin] |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5397 Registered: Dec-04 | Hey, people pay more for less than Hunter on a Virator. It's all I got. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1343 Registered: Mar-05 | Didn't want the tubes section to get lonely. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9687 Registered: May-04 | . http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MHEATDAMP |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1346 Registered: Mar-05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9689 Registered: May-04 | . I don't know if jc's last post was meant as a comment on my posting but I would hardly consider tube dampers to be snake oil. I would consider $30 each to be outrageous but that's not the point. If, at nortmal volume levels, you can tap on the glass envelope of your tubes (use the eraser end of a pencil) and hear anything through your speakers, you can benefit from tube dampers. . |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1359 Registered: Mar-05 | http://www.fulkerson.org/1-janvig.html Snake oil salesman j/k JV I don't hear a thing when I do the microphonics test on my gear. Just me though I suppose |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9690 Registered: May-04 | . Probably not. If you hear nothing when tapping on the tube, the manufacturer of the equipment has either done a very good job of damping the microphonics or the tube is not very microphonic. Either way, that's a good thing. The tubes I use in my pre amp are microphonic and require some damping. The small signal tubes in my Mac amplifiers aren't microphonic. Different circuit, different tubes and different results. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5608 Registered: Dec-04 | Jan, what do you currently use to dampen the preamp tubes? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9691 Registered: May-04 | . The high temperature O-rings are on the tubes and the tube sockets. While it's not sitting on it at this moment, the pre amp goes on a semi-suspended support and sits on Sorbothane feet with cones under them. Between the support shelf and the Sorbothane/cones is a double layer of marble tiles. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9692 Registered: May-04 | . Just for further clarification should all that sound extreme, the benefit is primarily to the phono section where an additional 50dB of gain is supplied. The line level tubes are far less microphonic and need only a touch of damping to help them along. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5636 Registered: Dec-04 | Umm...yeah. That sound about right. 50 DB gain? OK, that makes sense for the isolation then. Wow. An aside, if I may. This tube amp has resumed the snapping, which is killing my pleasure. Replacing the stock el cheapo's with Sovtek El84's worked for a while, but the demon returns. My input tubes are 6N3's, I will replace them as well. Just a straight change to the input tubes for Sovtek's is appropriate, or should I look at something else? Ideas? http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=processors&product=26.1 |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9698 Registered: May-04 | . I know I ask this a lot, but, why change the input tubes trying to solve this problem? Do you suspect they are the cause of the problem? Do you see any pops and snaps occurring inside the tube itself? There might be other problems that are being masked by replacing tubes. What other solutions have you pursued? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5646 Registered: Dec-04 | They may be the cause of the problem. Should I see an arcing or funky pattern in the tube itself when the problem manifests? I have replaced the cables, the only remaining originals are the splitter(headphone out to rca), and the pc card. And the amp itself, cursory inspection/check. If I sit and stare at the tubes, Mrs. Nuck will go around the bend. Potential back-of-head-slap happening here. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9702 Registered: May-04 | . I would say nine out of ten times if the tube is arcing or causing the snap, crackle and pop, you should see some visual sign of that in the tube. Examine the tubes in a darkened room - so Mrs. Nuck won't see you - and look for anything untoward. Your case might be the tenth out of ten and you can certainly change the tubes for better units but I wouldn't immediately suspect the tubes as the cause of the noises if you see no visual signs of tube problems. . |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2766 Registered: Dec-03 | Unfortunatly Jan is right, but the other side of the coin is you would like to know for sure it isn't something as simple as a tube so you go chasing things that just aren't there. I would want to have extra tubes just for these types of issues if not anything else like finding better ones for yourself, so I'd suggest yes getting some new tubes then you can at least take that part of the wondering away. MY 2cents. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9703 Registered: May-04 | . Try this if the tubes appear to be operating with no apparent problems(and even if they are); retension the tube sockets. Unplug the amp and let it sit for a few hours to a day (or drain the power supply caps with a big resistor) and then take a very small flat blade screwdriver and very gently give the tube sockets a once over. You aren't trying to do anything other than snug the contacts to the tube pins. A bit of Pro Gold wouldn't hurt at this point. Squirt some into the sockets and insert and remove the tubes a few times with a gentle rocking motion to the tube. Let the tube pins clean the socket fingers. If need be, take a pencil eraser to the tube pins. If any pins are bent, take the tip of a ball point pen with the cartridge removed and, again, very gently straighten the pins. Do some housekeeeping on all the contacts. If you are not certain the caps are bled completely, keep one hand in your pocket while probing the tube sockets. Do not have both hands on the unit at the same time as you are probing the tube sockets with a screwdriver and do not touch any metal parts of the screwdriver. In other words, do not create a circuit for the voltage to flow from one hand, through your heart and down to ground at the other hand. Tube amps can bite pretty hard even after they've sat for a while. . |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2767 Registered: Dec-03 | Good advice there, DUH! Kinda missed that one myself, but yes dirty or non tentioned pins can make all kinds of funky noises for sure, drive yu nuts to! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5676 Registered: Dec-04 | I didn't have Pro Gold, but I did squeeze the tube sockets, with contact cleaner. I rubbed the pins of the tubes with an eraser. I had one hand on a glass container with beer inside for insulation. Problem remains. The integrated amp may just suck, but I am at the limits of knowledge. I admit that with pride, a smart guy knows when to say no more. Pisses me off, though. A roll of the input tubes, then? Kegger, you must know this guy |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1364 Registered: Mar-05 | Remeber I had that crackling sound with my amp. If it's not the tubes, it may be a loose solder joint. Worth a try if tubes are ruled out. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5683 Registered: Dec-04 | JC, I warmed all the joints. Now THERE is an opening for a quicky. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5749 Registered: Dec-04 | So anyhow, I gotta spend 30 bucks. The inputs it shall be. I can't go a whole weekend without buying anything! Can't go anywhere, it's like -stupid degrees outside. Hate winter. Should I order the replacement 6N3's from Sovtek with the EL84's? Or is another common swap better? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5750 Registered: Dec-04 | And thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2768 Registered: Dec-03 | If you could order something other then Sovtek I would. As for EL84's I really liked some EI's I used a while back. Don't know who all makes 6N3's though. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1371 Registered: Mar-05 | Try those cryos we talked about earlier http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_28&products_id=57&osCsi d=9f139e8c6a4cb396ba2d767ee5b922e7 |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1385 Registered: Mar-05 | How we all doing tubers??? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9903 Registered: May-04 | . I had a tater the other night. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2769 Registered: Dec-03 | One of my long time creations is finally taking shape. It's 6BG6G tv sweep tubes utilizing adaptors I built to fit a standard socket. Right now it's in experimental stage but running well, I'm testing on st-70 output trannies but the final build will be Acrosound TO-300 outputs which are a very nice impeadance match for these tubes. These are 19watt plate tubes so they should work well with the Acro 35w OT. I will also be experimenting with the 35watt plate versions on a 60w Edcore OT. So far I like what I'm hearing and my front end board is holding up rather well. OH yah this 70 has the new triode electronics beefier power trannie as well. Not needed with these tubes but I now can run kt88 and or kt90's in this amp.  |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 6111 Registered: Dec-04 | Kegger, good to see you again. What final output would you expect with 88's or 90's, seeing as you have the power transmission in place? Clean your bench, man, make room for a beer can or something. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1387 Registered: Mar-05 | IT's ALIVE!!!! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2770 Registered: Dec-03 | On an original 70 the power trannie is the limiting factor without it bursting to yeild about the 40wpc rated, on one with the new power trannie 2 things become the limiting factor and that's the ouput trannies and the single 5ar4 rectifier to the tune of say 55wpc if your really pusing it. The outputs the farther you push them the less bandwidth you can yield from them, a 5ar4 rectifier is good for 250ma of current it can provide. So you need beefier outputs and either solid state rectification, dual rectifiers or a pair of high output tube damper diodes which you could use with this new power trannie and remove the original can cap, install another socket and and go dual rectifier or dual dampers. But really by then you might as well build a new amp and do it right with more room and a better power supply. I have a plan for the future of building a bigger amp with larger outputs and the beefed up power supply on a larger chassis, but the 70's are about done here. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 6151 Registered: Dec-04 | With ss rectifiers, would the load be lessened enough to make a safe gain for KT90 tubes at full stage? |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2771 Registered: Dec-03 | No you wouldn't want to try an get full KT90 operating on the ST-70's output trannie. You'd either burn up the trannie or saturate the core so bad frequency would suffer much. To get passed say 50-55 watts you'd want a different output trannie then an original 70. The citation amps and some of the heathkits like the w6 have much beefier outputs you can push. I have a CIt V I plan on doing some different type setups with utilizing it's outputs on monoblocks. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9920 Registered: May-04 | . "I have a CIt V I plan on doing some different type setups with utilizing it's outputs on monoblocks." That's kind of like dropping a big block Chrysler in the rear of a '57 Biscayne coupe. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2772 Registered: Dec-03 | I probably didn't portray it as I'd intended. What I'd like to do is take the Cit V output transformers and base an amp around those. Building a new pair of monoblocks using regulated power supplies and doing them up right. The chassis on the Cit V is just way to small to do any real power supply on but the outputs are very beefy and well built plus they are extremely linear with excelent frequency extension that if I had to buy something new like those it would just cost me to much so I'd like to build something that could really show off what they could do. I think it would be a really nice setup. Also the Cit V I picked up is/was a basket case so I'm not all that bummed about taking it apart. I'll probably build another amp on that chassis but one that doesn't "need" a killer power supply. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 6155 Registered: Dec-04 | KEG, you are the original mad scientist. Bless you for that. I gotta call you up and come see you and your group. And maybe learn a bunch. Nuck brings beer. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2773 Registered: Dec-03 | There are many mad scientests out there, actually quite a few in my own neck of the woods. Nuck and anyone else for that matter might like to check out and attend our big audio get together. http://audiokarma.org/ak2007/ |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 6157 Registered: Dec-04 | Lemme check with Mrs. Nuck KEG, I am away so much, I would like to see you there with my girl. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2774 Registered: Dec-03 | Oh yah by the way Nuck you bring the real beer from your side of the tracks and you can stop by my place anytime, my preference is, I believe it's spelled sleemans?.. The red one whatever that variant is called, good stuff! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 6159 Registered: Dec-04 | If I make the trip,a case of Sleeman's red label shall be in the R/T, KEG. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2775 Registered: Dec-03 | sounds like a plan! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 6162 Registered: Dec-04 | I will email you. Back to your regularly scheduled program. Oh wait, there was none. Rats! |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1390 Registered: Mar-05 | Finally going to move the 2ch setup into the office so I can enjoy it more. Having bookcases delivered tomorrow and even though the speakers will be on the shelves (not ideal) I am very excited about actually hearing my setup while I work. Will post pics after it's all setup. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1392 Registered: Mar-05 | Ahhhhh, looks good if I do say so myself. Acoustics aren't as bad as I thought they were going to be.  |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 6339 Registered: Dec-04 | Nice set of shelves, JC! lookin' good! And front and center, especially! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9993 Registered: May-04 | . Is that the CD player you're using as an isolation platform for the amp? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 6349 Registered: Dec-04 | Somebody had to say it...glad it wasn't me! A heat sink for the cdp...yup! |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1395 Registered: Mar-05 | Not ideal, but at least I use it now. I would be better having a platform above the cd for the amp? |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1396 Registered: Mar-05 | Ok, you critical bas*&^ds!! moved the cd to lower side shelf and left tubes to bachelor status. Sounds worse!!!  j/k thank you for guidance |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10006 Registered: May-04 | . Sure it sounds worse. You were using the CDP as an isolation device. Get something else under the amp besides a boxy cabinet and then listen. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1400 Registered: Mar-05 | Actually Jan it sounds the same to me. The tubes and amp I have are a combination of not too high end and super low microphonics so there really isn't that much difference. Mainly moved it cause it looks better and not so worried about heating up the cd player. I would like to have the room to just lay everything on pieces of marble directly on the floor, alas I am not in a big enough house yet. I will keep saving my pennies and maybe one day I will have that perfect setup like you have. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 6359 Registered: Dec-04 | JC, don't get touchy, you posted the pic. Very nice. Now get the platforms in place, in a nice finish, you will be oh so fine. Nuck |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10009 Registered: May-04 | . Doydedoydoy! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 6364 Registered: Dec-04 | Jan, ya got it all wrong. It's Da Doo Doo Dooh, De Dah Dah Dah, that's all I want to say to you. The work of a classic lyracist. "Ahh, the Giants" says Mr. Spock Star Trek 3 |
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