Rega brio 3 vs. Harman kardon hk 970 II vs. NAD c352
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New member Username: NightrhymePost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-08 | Hi seems after a long Internet surf, I finally found a knowledgeable Hi-Fi board. I'm looking for advice on choosing a new integrated amplifier. I have narrowed my choice down to 3 combatants. The Rega brio, the Harman kardon hk 970 II and the NAD c352, which all costs around 800$ in Denmark (my home country). The sound I prefer: I tend to like the typical British musicality, dynamic, a little dark and never stressed sound. The system I current have: CD-player: Arcam alpha 8se,Loudspeakers: Audiovector m3, and my old beloved amplifier: Aura evolution. I regrettably don't have the possibility to test them at home. I guess I'll have to come to some sort of conclusion based on your subjective input  Thanx in advance Regards NightRhyme |
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New member Username: NightrhymePost Number: 2 Registered: Jan-08 | Sorry don't know what happened with the topic formatting  |
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New member Username: NightrhymePost Number: 3 Registered: Jan-08 | hmm no comments ? |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 955 Registered: Jun-07 | IMO both the Rega and NAD out class the H/K. For Musicality I would think the Rega would be the top choice. For a flat, fluid like sound the NAD. I am not familiar with your speakers, and don't know if they are a hard speaker to drive. The Rega Brio, does not have a lot of power under its hood. Is it possible, to bring them both home and return the one you like the least? That is what I would be doing. |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 956 Registered: Jun-07 | Sorry, it says you dont have a way to test them at home. hmmmm, why not?lol can you test them somewhere else? You got to hear them somehow. The Rega sound is a class above the rest, but is a required taste. Not everyone likes it. Same goes with the NAD. The two sound totally different. One boasts much more power, but if your speakers are easy to drive then that doesn't mean anything. I would recommend you find a way to demo these. |
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New member Username: NightrhymePost Number: 4 Registered: Jan-08 | Thanx so much for reply My speakers (http://www.audiovector.com/default.asp?Side=68&Parent=64) are extremely easy to drive so no problem there . By reading some more I have actually turned my eye towards Rega Mira as well but I'm still a little unsure if Mira really sounds double as good since it's twice as expensive. The reason I couldn't test Rega at home was because the nearest retail store was 300km away (I don't have a car). However I posted these questions on a Danish HIFI forum as well and the Danish importer of Rega contacted me and tomorow I'll go listen to the Brio and Mira and maybe even bring them both home. The comments on the Danish forum sort of made me forget NAD and Harman kardon. Hmm dunno if that's a good thing or not  Any comments |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5885 Registered: Feb-05 | The Mira doesn't sound twice as good however that's usually the case with the diminishing return on the dollar with hifi. The Mira has a bit more robust power supply and better volume potentiometer and remote control. In other words the Mira has some more convenience features. The Brio is an excellent amp with a very good power supply that seems more powerful than it is. |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 957 Registered: Jun-07 | Art- how much are the Brio, Mira and the Pre amp..I think its the Cursa? Im just curious for myself as well. Doesn't look like the Brio has pre-outs, which is a killer for me. But is the Cursa3 less expensive than the Mira? Nam Nam Nam- Rega is a great choice. Also consider future upgrades, if there IS any plans on upgrading. Then again, if your speakers are easy to power, and you dont' have plans to upgrade them, or add power amps, then forget what Im saying. |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 958 Registered: Jun-07 | Appears that the Mira 3 is cheaper than the Cursa pre amp. Art- Have you used the Mira3 as a pre amp at all? If so, how does it fair as one? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5886 Registered: Feb-05 | No I haven't used it as a pre amp. It has all the power I need for the R5's so I haven't considered it....yet. |
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New member Username: NightrhymePost Number: 5 Registered: Jan-08 | Well I borrowed both the Brio and the Mira. First impressions: Was that the Brio actually sound the best. It has a more "in your face" approach and tends to be a little more aggressive, perhaps even more perky. The Mira is more laid back, relaxed and seem more effortless in its approach. Both sound really good. But unfortunately I'm having a hard time getting use to the very dark sound Rega seems to produce. My old Aura amplifier is dark sounding and I like that. But the Rega amps sound even darker. So much so, that the vocal and openness tends to suffer. To be extreme it sounds like someone put a sock in my loudspeakers tweeter. I don't know if this is something you get used to ? But I haven't given up yet. I'll listen some more... |
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New member Username: NightrhymePost Number: 6 Registered: Jan-08 | On a lighter note: Just came across this review that's not at all impressed with both Rega and Naim. Group test: Stereo amplifiers £500-£750: http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/article/mps/UAN/777/v/1/sp/ |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 979 Registered: Jun-07 | Interesting NAM NAM- I wouldn't describe the Rega sound to be dark, but again, everyone hears things differently. When are you going to audition the NAD piece? Or what other brands are you planning on bringing home? |
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New member Username: NightrhymePost Number: 7 Registered: Jan-08 | Hmm. Well I always heard Rega and Naim described as dark sounding. Actually I sort of no longer intended on auditioning any other amps. People I talked to sort of gave me the impression that the NAD 352/372 and Harman Kardon HK 970 II was no competition for the Mira. I'm also quite pressed for time. But I guess I could borrow the Mira a little longer and compare with NAD or HK if need be. Is need be ? *lol* |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 980 Registered: Jun-07 | Nobody can tell you any product wont compare to another product. You have to decide that for youself. By listening to it with your own ears.lol. I would say, audition as much as you can in the little time that you have. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5908 Registered: Feb-05 | Dark sounding...it appears that some other link in the chain has issues... |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1015 Registered: May-06 | I have to agree with Art. I had the Apollo, now have the Saturn, listened to Rega Turn Tables P5 and P9. Nothing dark there. Nuck and I heard an ill fitted Mira set-up in a complete Rega system with the Apollo. While short of soundstage and extension, it too was not "dark". On top of which, for you and only you, can determine what gets the bang for the buck? Think about whether you are confusing force with color, i.e. Brio / Mira. I do not mean to be disrespectful however there are different interpretations to hard and soft, bright and laid back, etc. Please understand that I respect and appreciate your interpretation of what you heard. It is inconsistent to my experience which is why I posted as I have. |
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Bronze Member Username: DudywoxerScunthorpeUK Post Number: 34 Registered: Mar-06 | I must admit to having problems reconciling rega and dark, I have heard and used a lot of rega kit over the years, and have never found it to be dark. It has a different presentation to a lot of kit, being more about the timing of music, and the interplay between musicians rather than about deeper deeps and tinkly airy highs. It also has a smaller soundstage than some, and the sound stage hangs around and behind the speaker line, rather than being thrown into your lap. You just have to listen for yourself and decide which presentation you are looking for. If Rega does what you want then you are fortunate, as the bang for your buck level is high, if not then its time to audition other brands. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5909 Registered: Feb-05 | Yep! |
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New member Username: NightrhymePost Number: 8 Registered: Jan-08 | You are probably right guys. But the way I look at it is like this. If an amplifier doesn't sound good with my current setup I can't justify buying new speakers to make the amplifier shine. I might do that at a later time but not because of a new amplifier. Maybe Rega just doesn't like my speakers. I thought the Mira played very musical and my records all seemed to make my foot tap. After listening some more to the mira, which I really like, I re-connected my old Aura Evolution (12 years old) and what an anti climax that was. It just made the listening experience that more interesting. Much more musical and much more "whole through" and more open. Aggressive electric guitar solos no longer sounded damp and constrained as they do on the mira but much more alive (hard to express musical experience in a foreign language). However the Mira is the best amplifier I have heard aside from my old aura. And the Mira does indeed do a lot of things better than the aura. Much more control of the midrange and low bass. But I can't shake this "dark" or "damp" feeling it seems to give the delivery. BTW Before the Rega amps I auditioned Arcam alpha 9 and 9p in BI-amp config which played very well and contrairy to the mira sounded too bright. But there was just something boring and plain about the delivery. Again my old Aura played much more involved and musical and made my foot tap more than any amplifier. I have also auditioned a S.A.T Amplifix which gave me sort of the same experience as the arcam setup. To praise the Rega amps they do play much more musical than S.A.T and Arcam but however close to my old Aura just not as good. And I'm thinking, what's the point in buying a new amplifier which doesn't surpass my old. Maybe I'm just too used to the Aura sound. On the other hand if that's the type of delivery I like I wish I knew which brand produced amps with that particular sound. |
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Bronze Member Username: DudywoxerScunthorpeUK Post Number: 35 Registered: Mar-06 | how about a fellow Dane,, Densen |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5913 Registered: Feb-05 | I wasn't trying to sell ya a Rega, I don't get any commission from it. I just hope you find something to your tastes and play some music...that's where it's at. |
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New member Username: NightrhymePost Number: 9 Registered: Jan-08 | I know ART that wasn't my impression. I guess I'm just thinking out loud. I just really wanted to like it and I do. Will se if I can get an extension on the borrowed Mira and perhaps borrow a NAD 352 and HK 970.. |
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New member Username: NightrhymePost Number: 10 Registered: Jan-08 | So I borrowed a Harman Kardon hk 970 hk II (which was d.o.a) so I couldn't listen to that one. Then I borrowed a NAD c352 and an older NAIM series 5. Here are my subjective findings. Please excuse my lacking English terms when it comes to describing listening experience: Rega Brio 3: Very powerful little amp considering its size and specs. It has a very musical and engaging delivery. Can seem a little stressed at times. At first listen Brio vs. Mira the Brio seems much more engaging. But after a few days it becomes clear that it's just more harsh in its delivery than the Mira. Rega Mira 3: Again very powerful little amp. But with much more control and relaxed delivery than the Brio. Like the Brio it has a very thick and tight sound. However it has this damped constrained delivery around the upper midtones. This tendency causes the Mira to lack in openness and detail. Furthermore this tendency sometimes makes it hard to separate the vocal from the instruments. I know you can't get both analytical and musical delivery. Amp makers have to make a compromise. But in this case in my humble opinion the prize is to steep. NAD C352: After listening to the Rega amps. Listening to the NAD was almost boring. The NAD music delivery seemed very cold, correct, precise, unengaging but very detailed. It was missing the ability to make my records sound engaging and involving. Just cold and precise replication. I didn't find the delivery warm as some people describe. The Rega amps have a warm delivery and the NAD comes nowhere close. NAIM series 5: Didn't get to listen too much to this amp as my focus was on the Mira. But something happened once I auditioned it. It just seemed to do everything right and remedy the complaints I have with the Mira. It's very open, detailed (not as much as the NAD), musical and almost neutral in its delivery. Much more refined separation between instruments and vocal. In all fairness I also should mention that the NAIM amp is the one that come the closest to the sound produced by my old Aura evolution. Maybe that's why I prefer this sound. So it seems something like NAIM Nait5i is the way for me. I'm a little surprised that I evidently need such an expensive amp to achieve similar sound to my old Aura which is 14 years old and at that time had a prize of about 780 $. Hmm... I'll take a break for now auditioning amps. It's killing me. But I guess my next suspects will be NAIM nait5i and Densen beat 110... Any comments would be highly appreciated... Thanx in advance |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 6004 Registered: Feb-05 | Love the Naim... Curious what your source was, as the separation between instruments and voice are very clear with my Mira 3...wonder if it could be due to the synergy I get with the all Rega system. Naim is probably my favorite and I would likely have an all Naim system if I could afford it (minus the TT and speakers...). BTW I don't usually spell my name in bold...  . |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1056 Registered: Jun-07 | When I listened to a Rega Mira 3, I found that it had great separation between instruments as well. Also, Ive never heard anyone prefer to the NAD sound as Cold and Detailed.lol. Sounds like both brands have problems in the synergy department with your system. Naim should top them all of course, and sounds like it fits the sound your looking for, and your system much better. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 1057 Registered: Jun-07 | I find that the Rega amps add a bit of color to the music, where say Arcam or NAD seem to keep it flat and try to be as true to the original recording as possible. Problem with this, is that it can seem to be very dull and boring with certain music. The Rega seems to add a bit of magic to the music. Not for everyone, but for most. Naim do the same thing, just a bit better. |
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Bronze Member Username: LuxendelGondelsheim, Baden-Württe... Germany Post Number: 31 Registered: Oct-07 | Hmmm , interesting... I find my NAD c370 VERY musical.... I had the HK 970 here and the Marantz 7001PI... Maybe the newer NADs tend to be more "cold/clean". The C370 makes BIG FUN...even on old CDs... Boring would be an offense to this noble amp... And also the bass is warm and VERY rich... Yeah, all tastes are different.... |
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