Reciever for 4x B&W DM 303
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New member Username: Pingo76Slovenia Post Number: 1 Registered: May-04 | Hello. As a newbie in hi-fi, HT i would really like some advices. I basicly got this equipment: 2x B&W 303 (front) 2x B&W 303 (surround) - arriving tomorrow 1x B&W LC3 - stil putting money together.. YAMAHA RX-V340RDS reciever So the questions are: Is this reciever any good for these speakers? Do i need particularly good cables for speakers? I think that my awesome DM 303 should definitely sound better paired with another better reciever or i'm wrong? I use this setup for music, movies and also gaming  By priority music wins by a slight margin. With this setup my music sounds very good but upping volume a TAD distorsion kicks in fast. Did i reach the limit of DM 303 or is it YAMAHA 340 being the most cheap 5.1 reciever. Cabling maybe? Due to the lack in good hi-fi cabling (in the store) i bought (take a good laugh) mid/high end car audio cables. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance Pingo76 |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 210 Registered: Feb-04 | It's definitely your amp. The 340 is weak and short of features when compared to most other cheap receivers. I believe you would get a lot better sound with a better receiver. How much are you willing to invest? I also believe your cables are fine. If they're copper and at least ~1,5mm^2 (I have no idea how you imperial system guys state the thickness of a cable) you will have no problem. |
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New member Username: Pingo76Slovenia Post Number: 2 Registered: May-04 | the 340 is weak but it has all the features i want. Even more that i want. Who wants all those DSP "enviroments" anyway? B&W DM303 are rated 25-100W should i look for a 5x 110W reciever? As for how much i'm willing to spend... double the price of that 340 which was like 320$ (a real steal... of my money). So far, i've ony heard some HK, Onkyo, Marantz, Yamaha and haven't really found one that i really like more. Probably just because of the ultra lameness of the selling guy. Not to mention the lack of professionality. Anyway im looking something with great clarity at the cost of features. No funky DSP for me. 6.1 isn't required, 5.1 should be more than enough. A remote is a must tough. As for my cables they have an internal phi=2mm (it should be a little more than 1.5m*2) |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 213 Registered: Feb-04 | You're right about the DSPs, they're not wanted. Some manufacturers still like to advertise their hardware with those, but also others dont. Also you shouldn't stare the advertised power ratings, they have nothing to do with the reality. Most cheap 5*110W receivers are really something like 5*30W so beware. For the best sound quality and not too many DSPs and stuff you should check the NAD T742 or T743. The T743 is a new model with a couple extra features, but if you're happy with the V340, the older T742 will suit your needs very well. Myself I'm here in Europe, so I dont know many US retailers, but this one ( http://saturdayaudio.com/ ) seems to have the T742 for $399 discount price. Other good models to look for are Marantz SR5400, H/K AVR230, Pioneer Elite 53 etc. |
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New member Username: Pingo76Slovenia Post Number: 3 Registered: May-04 | Hey, i'm from europe too ;) I just converted prices in USD coz many here are from us (just for convenience). Anyway i will take a look at this NAD T742. It does look somewhat ugly but i bet is good performer. Anyway, i will try to buy one for his qualities not aesthetics. Thanks. Btw, is the power rating of B&W DM303 rated at 25W-100W based on DIN, RMS, or some other weird techniques used for example pc multimedia speakers (worst rating ever seen... was that P.M.P.O.?!? )? I don't wanna buy an amp which will potentially burn my speakers nor buy one which is a waste for those speakers. I prefer listening music from low (most of the time) to moderate volume but never loud as hell. Ever heard of Onkyo SKW 205 (subwoofer)? I can get it for cheap but looks too cheap for being any good. I can not try it though (store weird policy). The store also would take back (with some loss) my yamaha and reccomends me an ONKYO 601E priced 550EUR. Im not sure it will sound better than my current yamaha. Thanks for your time. |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 215 Registered: Feb-04 | Usually speaker power ratings are useless, you cant burn them with a too powerful amp, but with too less power you can because of distortion of sound in high volumes. It will break the treble drivers quite easily. None <$1000 receiver will have 'too much' power for the 303s. The Onkyo 601 is a good basic unit with definitely better sound than your Yam, but it's nowhere near the quality of the small NAD. One worth checking for is the new Cambridge Audio Azur 540R, it has good sound quality even for music and not too many boring features. I haven't heard about the sub, but I recommend you never buy anything without trying first. If they dont let you test it, dont buy it. |
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New member Username: Pingo76Slovenia Post Number: 4 Registered: May-04 | Thanks for your answers. I think i know how i (or was my sister long time ago) did burn my previous speakers tweeters. Nice boxes but immensely hard to find replacement tweeters. Also, the crossovers must be broken too... (i can listen some midrange tones coming from the woofer which isn't nice at all). Well, they are at least 19 years oald and deserve to be at least repaired coz they sounded very good some years ago. Anyway i got those B&W DM303 which are sweet. I'll put aside some money and go straight to NAD 743 maybe 753. As for the subwoofer i'll try some in the next days. Today i listened to one JBL and sounded very good compared to some little less expensive Yamaha ones. I guess i'm not a yamaha fan at all. Damn it! It's way too hard to put aside enough money for a really nice audiophile system which could be also used for HT. Apart from Sade and some 80's music all other music i listen just doesen't sound right. Jazz is somewhat disturbing. I really appreciate your kind responses. Thanks for now, you answered at all i wanted to know. Regards, Gregor |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 218 Registered: Feb-04 | "Damn it! It's way too hard to put aside enough money for a really nice audiophile system which could be also used for HT." Roger that. I'm just a university student with not too much money to spend to anything, but I think I have a quite nice multichannel audio system. The receiver I had to buy, but most of the speakers I have I've built myself. Just bought the drivers and predesigned crossovers and made the enclosures out of wood or MDF. This way I can have one ~400 euro speaker for like ~150 euro. Also by making them yourself you can have the finish you like, anything from lacquered birch to bright ferrari yellow paint. |
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New member Username: Pingo76Slovenia Post Number: 5 Registered: May-04 | Nice, i thought that selfmede speakers are a thing of the past due to massive research, design, claculatinos and engineering involved. As for finish i like black the most. Well, some real dark cherry wood is still quite breath taking... What kind/brand reciever dou you use? |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 220 Registered: Feb-04 | I actually have an old Sony wich works fine, but doesn't sound very good. I've been planning a while to get a new one and the NAD T743/T753 are one option. All the speakers I've made are predesigned by speaker manufacturers so I didn't have to calculate anything. What I could do is to build a sturdier enclosure. One model I've been interested for a while is the Konus Audio Essence with a full range Jordan driver. It retail for $4000, but the internal parts can be bought for ~$400/pair. |
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New member Username: Pingo76Slovenia Post Number: 6 Registered: May-04 | Eeeek! I guess it can be a good afternoon hobby and you can still make some cash out of it if you are good enough. I'll stay with my yamaha till december then i'll hopefully get a NAD 753. Btw, i can get a Marantz 4300 for cheap. Any good? |
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New member Username: Pingo76Slovenia Post Number: 7 Registered: May-04 | One thing also bothers me. If i want listen to music with all 4 speakers is it possible to do so without using that lame pro logic II thing? It does work but it also does something to the music i don't like. |
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Silver Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 222 Registered: Feb-04 | If you want to use the 4 speakers in a 2xStereo combination you will have to plug the other pair to the receivers B-speaker output and select A+B for speakers. If they are connected as surrounds, you'll have to use the PL2. I listen all music with 2 speakers as it is the easiest and also the best way to do it. Try the 4 and see if you like it. |
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New member Username: Pingo76Slovenia Post Number: 8 Registered: May-04 | Unfortunately my yamaha doesent support a+b. I can however use my pc digital output (audigy sound card) and have "proper" 2x stereo mode. Quality suffer greatly though. But when i'm editing video is really nice. |
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Bronze Member Username: SulfurPost Number: 23 Registered: Dec-03 | I think you would be very happy with either NAD or Marantz paired with B&W. I'm not pitching for any brands but these are the 3 brands you mentioned and I happened to have auditioned them alot recently. I end up buying B&W 600 series (603/601/LCR600) with Marantz 7300ose & liked it alot. The general rule of thumb is to spend roughly 1/2 as much on amp/receiver as you did on the speakers, eg if your speakers costed $1k, target something in the $500 range. Of course there is nothing stopping you from spending alot more or alot less, and the rule is probably meant for 2 channel setup, but I personally found the guideline turned out to be the best bang for the buck in my case for my 5.1 system. Also, don't forget B&Ws are nice but DM303 is the bottom model. If the plan is to stick with these for a long time, I would aim for a NAD 742/743 or Marantz 5300/5400 and save some money(4300 may be ok but some users on this forum had issues with it, forgot what though). If the plan is to eventually upgrade the speakers, I would jump a step higher & get a nicer receiver, eg NAD 75x/76x/77x or Marantz 7x00, etc, and upgrade speakers later. The catch is the unit you buy should match nicely with whatever speaker brand you have on your wish list. Just my two cents... |
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New member Username: Pingo76Slovenia Post Number: 9 Registered: May-04 | Well considering that i spent roughly 300$ for i pair of DM303 and something like 300$ for the amp should be fine. These speakers are indeed entry level but sound like 600$ per pair. They are very near B&W 601 S3 as i listened them too. More bass is a rough difference. I choose DM303 insted of 601 S3 because they are very good as monitors for video editing sessions and are a bit smaller than 601 S3. I'm not regretting my decision for them. I think only that yamaha 340 isn't up to the job for these "entry" level speakers. Franky, every ear has it's judge but i did not found anything that sounds near those DM303 in my price range. Maybe i'm one of those that don't like yamaha sound very much. And, yeah i'm planning to stick with these for a looong time. In future i will try to get two B&W 802 (expensive as hell) and a nice lamp based stereo amp. As for the near future this is unfortuantely only a dream. Btw, ever tried to listen music with 601 S3 only? |
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Bronze Member Username: SulfurPost Number: 24 Registered: Dec-03 | Don't get me wrong, I like the DM303 and it's very good for what it costs. My point was don't blow 1k$ on a receiver (and expect them to sound like 2k$ speakers) I think the major difference is it doesn't have the kevlar driver the 600 series have. I did briefly consider it for my surrounds, but bought 601 because they didn't cost too much more & it'll be a better choice for DVD-A/SACD (when I can afford a decent player). If I were on a tighter budget I would consider the 303 as well. And yes obviously I tried a pair of 601 S3 for 2 ch music, that's why I bought them as surrounds. They are a bit bulky but very decent for a 2 ch bookshelf setup. I originally wanted a smaller 5.1 setup with bookshelf fronts (601/600/LCR60), but then with the stand it occupies just as much space as a 603. In the 600 series I liked the 601, 603, LCR600 but did not like 602, 602.5 or LCR60 that much. The 700 series is pretty decent but personally I would either get the cheaper 600 series or save up for their 800 series. The 800 series towers are way out of my budget but I did spend alot of time listening to the 805 bookshelves. They were exceptionally nice & I had a tough time deciding if I should spend my entire budget on them for a 2 ch setup. I end up picking the 5.1 setup for DTS concert DVDs, DVD-A/SACD, and of course DVD movies. |
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New member Username: Pingo76Slovenia Post Number: 10 Registered: May-04 | I have yet to try SACD. Today arrived my second DM303 pair. Unfortunately the box was damaged slightly. I did a quick checkup and all seemed well. Upon unpacking and mounting all was good till i removed the dust protection "grill" off. One of the tweeters was punched in with something spikey and one of the screws was missing. Upon inspection it was not even in the package. Fortunately i will get them replaced tomorrow. But i'll try to replace them for two 601 S3 instead for a small money. Not a bad idea i think. |
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Bronze Member Username: Pingo76Slovenia Post Number: 11 Registered: May-04 | I see you don't have any subwoofer. I guess that your 603 are up to the job. I will need one but i've listened to some and liked none. (jamo, jbl, onkyo) The b&w AWS600 costs a fortune and the owner of the shop said that he sold one but didn't really liked the sound, especially for that price. I is worth that much or should i search for another brand. Any reccomendations? I can choose from these brands only: Jamo, Yamaha, Onkyo, JBL, Mirage, Athena, Dali, Mission, Wharfdale and Sony - eeek!. |
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Bronze Member Username: SulfurPost Number: 25 Registered: Dec-03 | Forgot to mention I have a 8" Polk Audio PSW 250. I live in an apt & can't turn the base up. It's a cheap solution (about US$150) until I move to some place more private. Then I'll get a 10" or 12". Didn't do much research on subs. And no I wasn't impressed with B&W subs either, not for the price they cost. There are alot of good info on this bbs, I'm sure you'll find what you need. |
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Bronze Member Username: Pingo76Slovenia Post Number: 12 Registered: May-04 | Yay! I went home with a shiney new pair of b&w 601 S3 bought instead of those damaged DM303 pair. Put the DM303 as rear speakers and put those 601 S3 as front. Im very happy now. Anyway my yamaha will still be replaced someday in future. I'm pretty sure my speakers aren't giving it's true potential. No worries i won't buy a 2000$ amp. for them. Stil looking a NAD 743 maybe 753. I can find "cheap" NAD 742 should i just ignore it and go for ones previously mentioned models? My friend has the same 601 on a way more exensive amp and i must go check how it sounds. Unfortunately it's still a yamaha though. Thanks for all suggestions, tips and time. Anthony, thanks for "reminding" me about b&w series. |
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Bronze Member Username: SulfurPost Number: 26 Registered: Dec-03 | Congrats! Glad I could help. Another friendly reminder is B&W needs about 500 hrs of burn in before they would sound good. The info is actually on their website. |
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Bronze Member Username: Pingo76Slovenia Post Number: 13 Registered: May-04 | I knew that but thanks. I still play them gently at somehow low volumes (yeah, even for a weak yamaha is low. ). |
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