New (old) setup
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9119 Registered: Dec-04 | The table will be discussed very soon, but I am looking at phono stages again. I have not found any problems or question on this PSaudio unit. http://www.psaudio.com/products/gcph_phono_amplifier.asp It has everything, is A recommended, and is fully balanced. It is also (relatively) dirt cheap for a balanced phono. Is there a reason to say no? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11706 Registered: May-04 | . From the ad copy; Benefits no better phono stage ever made  Didja hear the one about Miller being the Champagne of bottled beers? Have you ever heard any PS Audio gear, Nuck? . |
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Silver Member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 126 Registered: Aug-06 | Under Benefits from the manufacturer: "No better phono stage ever made" Statements like that make me wonder... |
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Silver Member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 127 Registered: Aug-06 | whoops, crossed posts. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9120 Registered: Dec-04 | should have added 'from them' I guess. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9121 Registered: Dec-04 | My budget is being pushed to the limit, this unit has been rec'd from 2 good dealers, and I can use the stuff that it features, the balanced operation in particular. No, I have no experience with PS Audio preamps. poke poke It's like a grand. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2498 Registered: Sep-04 | Nuck, I was just wondering about that balanced operation feature. My problem with it is that it must be a pseudo balanced connection since they don't appear to have inputs for balanced wiring of the tonearm leads (i.e. 4 RCAs instead of two where the hot pins are used, and taking advantage of the balanced nature of operation of the cartridge). That said, the only manufacturer I know of that does this is Chord electronics and their phono stage is not cheap... I have also read good reviews of the PS Audio item. In the same price range I would be looking at the Dynavector P75MkII and the Tom Evans MicroGroove or MicroGroove+ (depending on budget). The Microgroove is upgradeable to the '+'. I use a Groove but that's megabucks again. The Dynavector is great because it allows you to change load depending on cartridge (and is MM/MC switchable). It also has a unique DrT mode which seems to work very well indeed - and is my choice whenever playing Dynavector cartridges through it. Other cartridges have variable results with the DrT mode. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5575 Registered: Feb-05 | Only a grand...I'll take two...geez! The joy of Mac gear, comes with a phono stage ready to use and enjoy. PS audio is flat and lifeless in my experience...but my experience is very limited and tastes vary as always. Who woulda thunk that MR's combo would gel, certainly not me...however he's reporting that it does and I for one believe him. If you think that the PS Audio would suit your needs give it a whirl and report your findings. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9122 Registered: Dec-04 | Wow! Thanks for all the feedback guys! I guess it pays to hang around, hehe. I am gonna try the PS stage. It looks flexable, and remember, I have not decided on a cart yet. There may be Grado TLZ cart coming along at a great price, or something else. This unit might help me dial it all in, with its flexibility, then I can decide on a more permanent piece, if necessary. I would hate to focus on one solution before the whole kit is up and running, and have a chance to sort it all out. The new speakers and room layout will have a lot to do with that, and deciding on placement of the table and support will go a long way in making a final choice. This stage should provide a platform for deciding where I want to go, and is easily re-sellable to boot. Thanks again, guys, I love this sport! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9123 Registered: Dec-04 | Frank, did I miss how the output of an mc cart is unbalanced? This Sumiko Talisman cart is line contact and .26 mv output. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11707 Registered: May-04 | . "This Sumiko Talisman cart is line contact and .26 mv output." If you're talking about the box I gave you the other night, the box is the only thing that came from Sumiko. The Talisman cartridge is long gone to provide Simply McIntosh with a cartridge for her table. You have a Monster Cable Alpha One (?) medium output MC in a Talisman box. Whatever paperwork is in the box does not pertain to the cartridge I gave you. You'll have to check the model number on the MC MC and do a search on the web for specs of that particular cartridge. And I still haven't found the TLZ. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9126 Registered: Dec-04 |  Told ya i was a noob! will do. After seeing the beheading block you use for a base, JV, I need a refresher on a wall shelf. THIS I will have room for, as the kit will likely be behind the speakers, which will be out 1/4 into the room. Not as much external feedback. All DIY. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9144 Registered: Dec-04 | Art, I am pressed to find a phono stage that does mc and mm, offers gain and adjustability for each channel, along with the balanced outouts that the rest of my stuff runs on. If a grand seems like a lot(it is), I would surely love to find another unit that does this for less. Fully balanced, which all of my kit is, that, my friend, is hard to find. Cept'n the cd players.Why is the Apollo unbalanced? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5582 Registered: Feb-05 | "Why is the Apollo unbalanced?" Probably so the majority of us can use it..... I have no idea why you need a phono stage that does all of that... Check the used market at A'gon or the Canadian equivalent. Remember that a grand seems like a lot of my money but you have more of it than I do so it may be a bargain to you...if so, like I said before, go for it and tell us how you like it. It may very well be quite good. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9146 Registered: Dec-04 | Any unit as good as the Apollo should offer the output option, IMO. I need the stage to be flexible, Art, before I settle on a cart and setup that will be permanent. No matter what the outcome, the solution will have to be balanced, the benefits that have been proven in my kit are just impossible to ignore. People spend thousands of dollars on single ended cables, looking for the solution that is apparant in 50$ balanced connections. I havn't picked up the stage yet(can get it any time), best to step back a bit and get the table running in a few weeks when the arm comes in and I drill/mount it. I am gonna try the table on the Pioneer, cross your fingers and toes! Just a start up, but likely exposing the table/cart or the Pioneer. Take a guess?hehehe Also shopping the NAD PP2, just for trials. Sorry if the $ is out of line, bud, just tossing it out there, features and all. Coffee and Baileys before 7 on the west coast, on me. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2245 Registered: May-05 | Don't waste your time with the PP2. I lived with it for a short while and was happy with it connected to my 320BEE. It worked good in this system, but it'll be a waste of time in your system. I know its just for kicks, but its truly a waste of $120. It would be the equivalent of hooking up a $50 Apex DVD player up to a $10K plasma TV. Use the $120 for a nice dinner with Helen. You'll both be much happier. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5586 Registered: Feb-05 | Nuck, I tip to you my friend!! Oh and I agree with Stu on the PP2. Frank probably knows some great phono stages...wait for his reply before gettin' too exceited. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11714 Registered: May-04 | . "Just a start up, but likely exposing the table/cart or the Pioneer." That's it!!! Send the f'ing table back if you think it's going to be beaten up by a thirty year old Pioneer! Let's just hope the Pioneer doesn't literally die and go to heaven with this table connected. Yeeeshh!  "I need the stage to be flexible, Art, before I settle on a cart and setup that will be permanent." First of all, you need to settle on a cartidge and then buy what's appropriate to that cartridge. Flexibility is one thing, over compensating in expectation is another. There will be more than one way to be flexible and the various methods have their benefits also. Think! Secondly, how "permanent" is your system? Not very at the moment from what I can tell. . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5590 Registered: Feb-05 | I thought you had already selected a cartridge Nuck.....umm umm ummm... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5591 Registered: Feb-05 | Weren't you waiting on one... I see now that Frank already posted suggestions, all of which Jan eluded to, need to be part of a system approach. You need to know what sound you want and like and put the pieces together based on that. You have a fabulous table so now it's time to put the pieces together. This is a table that Jan has used for quite sometime and his insight, even if the two of you don't want quite the same sound, should be invaluable to you. First things first...cartridge choice... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9156 Registered: Dec-04 | I have not moved at all on this one kids. I am just waiting on the rb300 arm that was ordered yesterday. I am poking and prodding,thats all. I ain't gonna make a mistake on this deal, just make sure that the money is worthwhile to what the table/system can do. I appreciate the input, no matter how it happens. I am working from the short end of the money stick by now, and having the $ to justify this table/setup is a touch tight, for once. If I have to wait, then I will start with what I have right now, which means the Monster cart and the Pioneer. Sorry Jan, it won't last forever. If I cannot fit a 10x5 now, then another cart will be in order, but, dammit Janet, I need some vinyl and I need it now! Ya dig? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11715 Registered: May-04 | . "If I have to wait, then I will start with what I have right now, which means the Monster cart and the Pioneer. Sorry Jan, it won't last forever." Exactly! Cartridges are not "permanent" items. Don't buy a phono pre amp for five years down the road. You don't buy tires in anticpation of the car you might buy. Pick your cartridge - you can use the Monster Cable cartridge as long as needed and I'll look for the Grado - and then determine what sound you want and features you require. While balanced inputs are nice, determine how beneficial they will be in this instance by borrowing a balanced input phono section. I think you're making too much of cartridge loading for what cartridges are available today. First, you have to decide you're going to own a MC cartridge that requires loading. If you don't have that, then you're probably better off investing in an over all higher quality pre amp than one you purchased just because it has dip switches. Why do you think you want a moving coil cartridge in the first place? . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9160 Registered: Dec-04 | OK, ok time out. huff. breathe deep. So I need to place the analog around the cart, with the heavy vpi table and he rb300 arm. OK. Which cart should I look at? Music runs a bit bass heavy, Zep and ACDC rather than Dave Brubeck, but always the consideration of Diana Krall. Yes, I want it all, but my gut says that a nice cart can do it all, within reason. Something which will not cost me 250,000$, which is the going rate for a divorce. Does the Dynavector for in here? Cheap(enough) help, guys. But I do not want to underuse the table, which is spotless, BTW, the dust cover is a beauty. JV, I ain't pressing on the Grado cart. If it is there somewhere, maybe I will find it next time while I shuffle through your drawers. Oh that doesn't look right. Just a little guidance here guys? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2519 Registered: Sep-04 | I don't know what your budget is, so I am going to have to be a little circumspect here... I am bearing in mind your tonearm which is the weakness in your vinyl reproduction since, good though it is, the RB300 has certain limitations within which we should try to work. At some stage, you can upgrade it. Change the wiring loom to the Incognito wire for a relative snip and the difference will amaze you. Anyway, cartridges I like in this arm have been as follows: Ortofon 2m Blue - well, for the money... Goldring 2500 - not bad for the money... Ortofon's new Salsa - I like this a lot even if it's a little closed in the treble Grado Prestige Gold - very nice indeed, I like this a lot Dynavector 10x5 - again, very nice indeed with loads of MC qualities Ortofon Rondo Red - fine cartridge with good tonality for an Ortofon allied to a really nice sense of swing. Dynavector 20XH/L - gets better every time I hear them Ortofon Rondo Bronze - I really liked this cartridge. More solid in its presentation than the Red and with a better sense of swing than anything so far. Dynavector 17D3 - fabulous, wonderful, excellent value, this is what you should buy, but it's a bit expensive. I hope this helps! Of course I don't know what it'll sound like with the PS Audio... Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9218 Registered: Dec-04 | Frank, thank you for your input. I may wander to the shop in town today and have a look at the PS and what they have for carts. The bloke had mentioned a few trade-ins, but I ain't so sure I want to go that way with a cart, especially if they are low rent to start with. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11746 Registered: May-04 | . You might actually want to listen to the cartridge I gave you before laying down cash for something else. Unless you just insist on spending money. The Monster Cable MC is no slouch. Otherwise, pick up a copy of the December Stereophile and read the review of the Zu cartridge. Unless you just must spend money this model is based on a very nice and venerable cartridge that has been responsible for plenty of satisfaction for many listeners. I still don't know why you seem to be stuck on a MC however. . . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9219 Registered: Dec-04 | Jan, I am only stuck on a balanced phono, and even then, maybe neurotically so. The balanced PS unit is pretty much all I am able to afford, however, and I like the option of mm or mc carts. I absolutely will try the cart you gave me first, no doubt. However, I will have to run it with the Pioneer for now(perhaps into the Classe), and get an idea of how to compare phono and carts. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 853 Registered: May-06 | You should have made an offer on the MA-6200 while you were here. I did not have it plugged in so it would not have been terribly missed. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 854 Registered: May-06 | Oh piss. Never mind. It's not my MA-6200 to begin with. How about some Spica - Angelus instead? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9222 Registered: Dec-04 | Jan will be excited to see a % of that sale as well. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 856 Registered: May-06 | Try this Nuck. Go buy, rent, borrow, or hot wire a white van. Put all of your speakers, old amps, spare CD players, and any extra wires in the back of the van. Drive to a shopping mall parking lot. Open up the back of the van, pull out a folding chair, and let folks know what a once in a lifetime deal your gear is. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2252 Registered: May-05 | Be sure to have the story of extra gear from an install down. Also make sure you have your fake invoices ready for inspection. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11760 Registered: May-04 | . \i[Invoices?!} We don'need no stinkin' invoices!!! For this deal, we take cash. Goodbye! Hope you like your new speakers. . |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2255 Registered: May-05 | I was referring to the fake invoices showing the outrageous fake prices the donkeys show the prospective suckers. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 857 Registered: May-06 | That and fake reviews. Oh wait, he doesn't need the fake reviews he actually is selling good sh!t. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9241 Registered: Dec-04 | If I get one more schmuck offering pennies for the stuff, I may go postal. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9280 Registered: Dec-04 | I might have the dealer taking all the stuff. The piano black PSB's as the showpieces, with matching sub, in piano black as well. THIS is the part of the hobby that is killing me. Before JV can say it 'just stop buying crap'. This is only sub-standard stuff for people like us...the masses would die for the sound. But would not pay. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 869 Registered: May-06 | Consignment I hope... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9291 Registered: Dec-04 | Likely. The high end shop is a guy I know,the stuff will go at a cost to me, but the stuff will go. The PSB Silvers will be on display, with big big front end. The rest? I dunno. The MA's are not 10/10 on display, so again, I dunno. The Rotel amp and the sub will be as is, the Velo sub is a beauty with the speakers, but not sonicall so(for me). Nice set for somebody. Just make it all go away, and give me a store credit of some substance. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9339 Registered: Dec-04 | The vpi/Rega/Monster/Pioneer/Classe is in service! It works perfectly! The Pioneer as a phono is sounding really good, as one would expect from a 1973 preamp. Vinyl was king, and this baby will run anything, with all functions, including heads out tape, etc. Dandy sound from the vpi table, I is all a twitter! |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 898 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, If I re-ran my TT out of my pre and into my Pioneer 650 (which is only employed as a tuner) then feed that line out into my MAC, I can sorta get an idea of what you got going... Ah, that would be a no. Just yanking your chain. Having that VPI in action finally has to be sweet. Nice work figuring out a way to get in action so quickly. Looking forward to your evolutions. So, now, now does "Boston" sound? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5688 Registered: Feb-05 | I knew you'd come around....good job, now get to spinnin' that darn vinyl. We'll be expecting your reports over in Music section as well! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9340 Registered: Dec-04 | Now for the yard sales. At this time of year I am not sure if I will find vinyl in amongst the skis and snowshoes, but like Mike showed me, ya gotta pry it out of...cold...dead...hands. The Boston will remain unplayed until everything is as good as I can make it Mike. I have a little preamp hum to address, and the table is planted on the concrete floor at the moment. Oh and Mrs Nuck does not share my enthusiasm, so when shopping time happens today, I may pull the Boston out. I am not sure what I was expecting to hear from this setup, but I know that this is better than I could have hoped for. It is smooth, perfectly clear(cept'n the hum)and very lively. The Pioneer pre is excellent in function. I had a scary woofer wobble going on, but the 30Hz cut took care of that, without costing great bass. I tapped the plinth and got no noise from the speakers. This table is dead stable with the plinth on spikes, no spring suspension at all. As soon as I decide on the presentation, it will be mounted good and heavy. Like real dead. I followed the setup procedures to the letter and put 1.6grams of mass on the stylus, by my nifty digital scale. For some reason, I needed 2mm under the rb300 arm, but had a spacer to do so, no problem. I like it! |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2320 Registered: May-05 | You may want to try a wall shelf as a permenent turntable stand, unless of course Helen doesn't want a turntable on the wall. |
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Silver Member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 142 Registered: Aug-06 | Nuck, if you're looking for used vinyl, you should check out the record shows. Plenty of selection, and dirt cheap. There's ususally about one a month in Toronto. Here is the schedule, keep on eye on it as they update it. http://www.vibrations.ca/events/calendars/rs_2006.html |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9352 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks guys. A shelf might be just the thing, Stuie, but built right, the table weighs 60lbs! Marc, thanks for that one. Like a lot. I will show up there with my piggy bank! See you there? I will PM you when I am going one Saturday and buy you a beer. |
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Silver Member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 143 Registered: Aug-06 | Sounds good man, will be there. |
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