Build my system..
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New member Username: ZaireekaPost Number: 2 Registered: Nov-07 | Hi all. I sit with a destroyed amp, an NAD 533 turntable in need of a new cartridge, a pair of Paradigm monitor 7 speakers, little knowledge of hifi and about a grand to spend. What do I get? I listen to vinyl almost exclusively and mainly rock and blues. Ideas? Thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2491 Registered: Sep-04 | Sounds like you need an amplifier with a decent phono stage. I strongly recommend Rega's Brio for this purpose. The 533 turntable is actually an OEM'd Rega P2 turntable so it's a good match. As for cartridges, there's Rega's own although I'm not a fan. I prefer Ortofon's 2m series which is pretty good or Goldring's new 2000 series which is also pretty sweet. In either of these cases, you'll need a 2mm Rega spacer for the cartridge to get the right VTA. Good luck, Frank. |
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New member Username: ZaireekaPost Number: 3 Registered: Nov-07 | thanks much, Frank. That Rega Brio looks like it would do the trick and fits my price range, thanks. The cartridge....pardon my ignorance, but what is the "spacer" you speak of and how difficult is it to install? What about the Clearaudio Aurum classic? Also, anyone have a good suggestion for speaker cable as well as a gauge for what I should expect to pay for good sounding cable on a budget? Thanks again. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9112 Registered: Dec-04 | http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html I see no reason not to start out with these cables and runs. |
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New member Username: ZaireekaPost Number: 4 Registered: Nov-07 | Thanks Nuck, and thanks again Frank. For now a friend is giving me a kenwood ka-501 as a stand-in (anyone know anything about it?) while I buy the cartridge and speaker cable with the brio to follow soon after. This forum is great. I'm getting that it isn't just plug and play, that each piece of the equipment; amp, cables, speakers, turntable will effect sound not only due to it's own abilities (which I did understand but was still ignorant as to the "whys") but also due to it's ability to "play well with others". This seems to be a substantial area of ignorance for me so thanks to this forum's previous posters and threads for starting my road to enlightenment! That all being said, although I am a long-time lover of vinyl, I am still a newbie and pretty ignorant to the idea of properly hearing it, I am still confused on alot of things. 1)The cartridge issue Frank had mentioned, what is the "spacer" you speak of and how difficult is it to install? 2)What about the Clearaudio Aurum classic as my cart.? Will this work well with my paradigm Mon. 7's and the Rega Brio? 3)Does anyone else have speaker cable suggestions? Should I just go with the d.i.y. mentioned in this thread on the cheap or are they too good to be true? Also, once the dust settles, I'm going to need a cd player (never thought I would say that) $500.00 or less...what's the biggest bang for my buck? Thanks again. neil |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9179 Registered: Dec-04 | Z, at the outset, you might want to be looking at out/in voltage levels. Matching pieces is tricky at best, but some cases are better than others. Mike Wodek here has done an outstanding job of piecing together a really great kit, but not without blood, sweat and tears. And dollars, truth be told. The biggest bang for the buck in cd players is a Rega Apollo. I have lots of players. A solid sound card in a puter and a good DAC is also an option, with all the editing functions available from a company like Creative Labs. Their X-pro studio functions very very well. Their external I/O is also very good for electric guitar, analog sources like TT and so on. If budget is tight, this pc based solution is quite good. I don't use mine as much as I used to, but then again, I have a pretty heavy investment in other stuff. Sometimes poorly chosen. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2505 Registered: Sep-04 | Zaireeka, 1. In your case, the spacer is a metal ring that you place under the arm to raise it by a specific amount. Spacers come in different thicknesses and you choose the thickness depending on the height of the cartridge. It's unusual for customers to fit spacers themselves partly because they're not used to it and they need a very wide spanner to do the job. One has to remove the arm from the deck to do this. It's actually quite simple. You just: a. Unscrew the cinch that holds the armlead to the deck. b. Unscrew the massive nut under the deck that holds the arm in place. c. Remove the arm with its armlead from the deck. d. Thread the spacer along the leads right up to the underside of the arm. e. Replace the arm into the deck. f. Thread the nut back in and tighten in place. g. Screw the armlead back in place using the original holes. Piece of cake, even I can do it, just make sure there's no cartridge on there at the time. 2. Not sure about the Clearaudio cartridge, but I think it's taller than the Rega cartridges and so would probably need a spacer. A Clearaudio dealer should be able to tell you - they're bound to have fitted one on a Rega deck at some point. From what I've seen I'd go for the wood bodied variant for the slightly warmer sound. I am assuming here that you're looking at the entry level Aurum model. I would not put anything much higher than that on an entry level table since the table won't cope with it properly. Better to have a better record deck with cheaper cartridge than the other way around. It's unusual to put a Clearaudio cartridge on such a deck. I've had good results with things like Dynavector's 10x5, Grado's Prestige Gold (great cartridge) and Ortofon's new 2m series (all these need a 2mm spacer). I don't really know how the Clearaudio will work. 3. Speaker cables really need to be associated with their amplifier. If you're talking about the Rega Brio, then the best cable for this is Naim's NACA5 in my opinion. Distant 2nd place would be to Chord's Carnival Silver Plus. (But the Naim cable's the boy so go for that if you can do it.) At $500, you'd be hard pressed to beat a NAD CD player. Not sure exactly what the prices are where you are but get the best you can. If using with the Rega Brio, connect up with a decent interconnect such as Chord's Cobra 3. You'll get good results this way. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 103 Registered: Jul-07 | Z, do you have any cd player currently ? Even a very cheap one ? If so, an option I would recommend is a DAC in the $500-$600 range over a $500 NAD cd player. My own experience is that with the right DAC this yields far superior sound, especially for someone who listens to mostly vinyl and likes that sound. The downside is of course you do need a cdp that you can use as a transport, and a good connecter from cdp to DAC, so it will be closer to $700 than $500 in the end I suppose....so I kind of blew your budget. Sorry about that. |
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New member Username: ZaireekaPost Number: 5 Registered: Nov-07 | Anyone have an opinion on a sansui au-9500 or au-717 in combo with my paradigm monitor 7s and my nad 533? What would the difference in sound be to, say, the Brio 3? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5691 Registered: Feb-05 | I use a Sansui receiver in my second system and Rega integrated in my main. Sansui gear is very good sounding generally speaking. The Brio would have a more contemporary sound...what does that mean? The Brio will be snappier/faster sounding. It will have a little less texture than than the Sansui so the nuances around the color palette of the music may be just a bit less with the Brio (with CD's) but the phono section on the Brio should flat out whip the old Sansui and the noise floor with the Rega will be an order of magnitude quieter. |
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Bronze Member Username: Josh784Seattle, WA Post Number: 88 Registered: Mar-07 | Hi zaireeka, If I were you, especially on a budget, I'd skip the boutique cables. Blue Jeans Cable make some very respectable cables that sound just as good as any you'd pay 10 times the price for. McIntosh might agree  http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2588 Registered: Sep-04 | Roger Russell again. Every time there's talk about cables, people trot him out as some kind of proof. The fact is that if you look at the methods he's used and the abysmal connections he makes in his tests, no good cable is goign to come out smelling roses. The cables I suggested were specifically for the system zaireeka is considering. If zaireeka chooses a different system, he should buy the appropriate cables for that. However, to discount cables 'because the science says a cable can't make a difference' is to close the door on good CD players 'because they're all digital'. What total utter absolute ill-informed rubbish. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 878 Registered: Jun-07 | I agree Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9453 Registered: Dec-04 | While I might suggest that rather expensive cables are unnecessary for most modest systems,and the benefits or detriments may be unnoticed, I find the effect of cables in my overpriced system to be rather dramatic at times. Good and Bad. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2358 Registered: May-05 | I just went from cheap Acoustic Research cables to Canare 4S11, and found a very big difference. Music opened up, and everything was cleaned up. My wife noticed the difference. I've heard some very expensive cables. I'm not saying I've heard revelations with them, but have heard differences none the less. If you truely know your own system and music, the changes others will hear may be marginal at best, but to you they can be very big. But that doesn't mean that price directly coorelates with quality. |
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Silver Member Username: Josh784Seattle, WA Post Number: 102 Registered: Mar-07 | I agree with you, cables do make a difference. The key is to have quality cables and connections, and I think that's all there is to it. Canare makes great cables, and they're very affordable. Blue Jeans Cable sells them, as a matter of fact. Cables are a pretty simple piece of equipment, and as such they don't cost a whole lot to produce. I can't fathom any reason to spend half the cost of my CD player on interconnects, for example, when I can get a pair from Blue Jeans (and other places), terminated with Canare RCAPs, for $30 that is just as effective. I'm not saying that cables and connections aren't an important aspect of any system - they most certainly are. It is just my opinion that far too many people have been suckered into the exorbitantly priced boutique cable business. I think the excess hundreds and thousands of dollars that many people spend on "brand name" cables would be much better spent elsewhere, where they might really hear a difference, as opposed to thinking they hear a difference. I demoed some Chord interconnects from my dealer when I purchased my latest system. They were terribly constructed, yet incredibly expensive. I tried two different models of interconnect, and in both sets, the pin in the middle of the RCA connectors wasn't even centered. But hey, if spending a fortune on cables and interconnects makes you feel better, then go for it. |
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Silver Member Username: Josh784Seattle, WA Post Number: 103 Registered: Mar-07 | BTW, Frank, the science does say that not all CD players are the same. CD players are an incredibly complex component. Cables are not, and the science says that so long as they are well constructed and terminated, they sound the same. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1790 Registered: Nov-05 | That may be true Josh providing different brands are constructed and terminated in the same way using the same materials. But interconnects can vary in many ways so differences can be noticed. I agree many exotic cables may be a waste of many, some may not be according to the ears and wallets of the beholder. Also some lesser priced cables can make differences too of course. To say as long as they are well constructed and terminated, they sound the same is not science as far as I'm concerned. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5761 Registered: Feb-05 | I second that MR and Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2598 Registered: Sep-04 | Josh, Not wishing to have a go at you here, just making a point. I'm surprised and disappointed at what you found with the Chord cables. I am a Chord dealer and I never have such problems. Incidentally, Chord offer a 10 year guarantee on their cables should you have any problems with construction, and that kind of thing would be sorted out. My argument is really for appropriate cabling. I would not consider those cables as particularly expensive and I know the results of that kit both with those cables and with other cables, so I know why I recommend certain cables over others. Furthermore, it's not quite as simple as you make out. The more esoteric cables are usually being employed in HiFi as an 'unusual' application. For example, the more expensive Chord cables are low energy loss microwave transmission cables. They're actually pretty expensive as a unit cost (a unit is a kilometre!) and since they're not really designed for XLR or RCA plugs it takes quite some skill to make them up well. Chord themselves acknowledge that much of the cost in any interconnect is in make-up. For example, a 1m Chord Cobra3 pair costs about £60, but every extra metre costs £9. Of course, the initial £60 absorbs extra costs such as R&D, packaging, shipping and marketing, but the example is still made. It just really gets my goat when Roger Russell gets trotted out as some kind of authority on the subject when one sees such abuse in the testing procedures. It makes my blood boil. Sorry about that. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: MrtomasuloSt. Louis, MO USA Post Number: 151 Registered: Mar-05 | I went from a $30 Blue Jeans Cable to a $400 VH Audio Spectrum copper cable (purchased used for half that), and the improvement it made in my system was just as large as made going from a HK 3480 to a Rega Mira 3, or from a Rotel changer to a Rega Apollo. I also tried a Chord Silver Siren in between those two and didn't like it that much. It was better in some ways than the Blue Jeans (detail, highs) but worse in others (bass, slight sibilance). |
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New member Username: ZaireekaPost Number: 7 Registered: Nov-07 | Thanks all.....for the lesson in cables! hahaha...thanks for all input. What about having the choice of a Rega Mira 3 or a Naim Nait 5i? Both amps are used with the Naim being $400 more than the Rega. This amp will again be used with: ~Nad 533 turntable ~Paradigm monitor 7s ~Rock, jazz then folk being my primary choices in music....all on vinyl nearly exclusively ~Cable needing beefing up...with much more knowledge of the issue now...thanks (probably Naim naca5) ~still needing a better needle (probably clearaudio aurum classic) Anyone? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2434 Registered: May-05 | Keep in mind that the Nait5i doesn't have a phono stage. You need an external one which will add to the overall cost. The Mira3 has an excellent phono stage built in. |
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New member Username: ZaireekaPost Number: 8 Registered: Nov-07 | yeah....gapped on that one. Thanks Stu for pointing it out. Sooo including then a phono stage, would the difference in price between amps+phono stage for the Naim....would the cost be made up for in sound? Also, what phono stage would anyone recommend? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2691 Registered: Sep-04 | Difficult one to answer. The NAD is an OK record deck but not a great one. An external phono stage can cost a fair amount of money, and the best way to really take advantage of the Naim is to cable up appropriately which means Naim speaker cable. As it happens I always recommend Naim speaker cable for Rega amps too so the latter is not really that big an issue. The Mira is a lovely amp. In my view, the Naim is a little bit better, but this is just my view. It does what I like more than the Mira does. I know some people who prefer the Mira. As to the phono stage, the entry level is something like Pro-Ject's Phono Box. Not sure on cost in your part of the world but in the UK it's the equivalent of $100. Another option would be NAD's PP2, also about $100 hereabouts. Then there's the interconnect to go between it and the amp, say another $100 for the right thing (Chord Crimson in 2RCA-DIN configuration). The Mira is the easy option. The Naim is a bit more complicated but should give you some more rewards. Then again, if saving that money you'd be spending on the Naim meant you could balance out your system with the right cables and decent cabling, then that may be the better solution overall. Sorry I can't be more helpful. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: ZaireekaPost Number: 9 Registered: Nov-07 | Thanks Frank. Well, let's say instead of getting the cartridge I mentioned, I upgraded my turntable completely....tax return coming and all  ....and with getting the proper cabling and the phono stage, what then would be better, in your opinion, the Mira 3 or the Nait 5? Also, what turntables would be recommended with said system? Thanks much, Neil |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2701 Registered: Sep-04 | I prefer the Nait5i. Turntables would be: Rega P3-24 minimum with a Dynavector 10x5, preferably with the external power supply Rega P5 with aforementioned 10x5 and definitely the power supply (makes a ridiculous amount of difference) Michell Gyro SE with RB300 and 10x5 or anything better Phono stage would have to be something good for any of those. Rega Fono would be the minimum, Naim's Stageline is ok but no great shakes at the money. Some people like the Graham Slee but the cheaper ones aren't that great. The Tom Evans Microgroove is great, although it's MM or MC only. The Dynavector P75MkII is also a great machine and very flexible with it. There you go. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: ZaireekaPost Number: 10 Registered: Nov-07 | Frank....thanks so much...again. I've decided to wait, save, and get the Naim Nait 5i, the right cables and interconnects and The Dynavector 10x5 looks like a definite. What about the Rega 25? The Bellari ABELVP 129 for a phono stage? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2720 Registered: Sep-04 | Rega don't make the P25 any more. It's a good deck. If you have a line on a 2nd hand one it's worth a look, although I haven't compared it to a P3-24. I don't know the Bellari, sorry. Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: ZaireekaPost Number: 11 Registered: Nov-07 | Thanks Frank...for everything. Bellari phono stage: |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2735 Registered: Sep-04 | Sorry, I know of the Bellari, but I have never heard it. This is why I cannot advise you on it. Seems like that P25 was highly modified - and is now sold... |
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