Planning for a HT, need some guidance
|
New member Username: KbearPost Number: 3 Registered: Dec-06 | Hi all, I am in the early stages of planning for a HT but I'm finding that I need a little guidance, mostly in terms of how I should narrow down my search. I am scouring the Internet for the right amp to match my choice of speaker. I'd like to get something nice that doesn't break the bank ($3,000 tops for the entire system). I'm planning on using it in about a 60/40 ratio of movies/music. In terms of music I'm into hard rock (GN'R, Aerosmith, Led Zep, etc.) As far as I can tell the types of speakers I choose will ultimately determine the amp I need. That's because I am considering going with Magnepan speakers (MMG W/C), which will require more power to drive. I haven't heard them yet, I will do so in the near future. But are they even an option on my budget? The speakers are cheap enough but it seems that a $1000 receiver won't cut it, I'll actually need separates (and if I'm not mistaken that means two units, a preamp and power amp). Is this the case, and if so is there anything that's affordable enough? Outlaw Audio appears to be the most affordable option, but what combination of theirs is the minimum I'd need to power the Mags? Other than the Mags I'd consider any quality make that's also affordable, be they Wharfedale, Energy, PSB, Athena, etc. I actually just listened to some Totems which were gorgeous, however I think that brand is a bit out of reach. I digress. I'm in the Toronto area, there are quite a few stores so I'm sure I'll have some choice, not to mention there's always the Internet. The other factor that complicates things is that eventually I want to move up to HDTV and either Blu-Ray or HDDVD. Therefore, I'd like Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding, or at least the ability to accept PCM over HDMI. HDMI 1.3 would also be a nice feature. That said, I'm a bit unsure if a High Def setup can get away without HDMI. From what I've read though, it sounds pretty important. Speaking of these features, I notice that most (if not all) separates shun them. If I want these it seems like I will have to buy a receiver. 'Tis ashame. Receivers that have caught my eye so far are the Denon AVR-1908, Marantz SR5002, H/K AVR 247, and Onkyo SR-705. In terms of source, I want a DVD recorder, which seems to necessitate going with one of the mass market brands (Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, etc.). But I will also add something like the Cambridge Audio DVD89 OR Marantz DV6001 to get SACD and DVD-A capability. I'm also planning to use a record player from time to time. Again, I'm looking for a bit of guidance. Should I even consider the Mags? If I do, what amps should I consider keeping in mind my budget? And if I don't, well I guess I'd simply have to match one of those receivers to a set of speakers. I know this is a bit of a mess but any help and direction would be much appreciated. Thanks! |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9036 Registered: Dec-04 | Dan, MMG's and RnR go together like peas and ice cream. The MMG's do a lot of things well, but Zep ain't one of 'em. Look at box speakers with 8 ohm impedence. |
|
New member Username: KbearPost Number: 4 Registered: Dec-06 | Thanks Nuck. Do you think a good sub could solve that issue, or is there more to it than that? |
|
New member Username: KbearPost Number: 5 Registered: Dec-06 | Well, assuming the Mags are out, I've got two speaker systems in mind. KEF iQ5 Towers KEF iQ1 Rears KEF iQ6 Centre or PSB Image T45 Tower PSB Image B15 Rears PSB Image C60 Centre For the sub I'll go with HSU STF-2. Any thoughts on either of these? Haven't listened to either set up yet, but when I head out to some audio stores in the coming weeks I will look to audition both the KEFs and PSBs. Whatever else the stores I go to have (assuming they are in my price range) I'll also give a whirl. I know from the stores I'm going to they also carry ProAC, Acoustic Energy, Mirage, Energy, Sunfire, Angstrom, PMC, Mordaunt Short, Martin Logan, Paradigm, Monitor Audio, and Totem. Some, like the Totems and Logans, I know are definitely outside my budget. The receivers I'll be looking to auditioning are, as above: Denon AVR-1908 Marantz SR5002 H/K AVR 247 Onkyo SR-705 NAD T755 (probably out of reach but maybe I'll get a good deal) Hoping to spend about $800 on a receiver. Thoughts and/or suggestions are welcome. |
|
Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 658 Registered: Jun-07 | For pure sound quality on the receivers, Id try to go NAD or the H/K. IMO. Although the new Onkyo stuff is getting good reviews. |
|
New member Username: KbearPost Number: 6 Registered: Dec-06 | Yeah, I'm only considering Onkyo based on the reviews the new line is getting. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been on my list. I should also add that the Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH may also be in the running. |
|
Gold Member Username: Arande2Rattle your ... Missouri Post Number: 2634 Registered: Dec-06 | I own the Pioneer Elite Vsx-91txh. I've had it for about 6 weeks. It's a lot better than I had imagined. Just don't skimp out on the bass. Please, don't skimp out on the bass. If you're going to get that, get two..or something. I have a bias for Paradigm, but it's your decision. |
|
Bronze Member Username: DmanwithnonameLondon, Ontario Post Number: 14 Registered: Sep-07 | Perhaps look at axiom and ascend speakers (internet direct with a 30 day in home trial minus shipping) and a hsu or svs subwoofer combination. I have axiom speakers, they are extremely efficient and i like the sound. I have an svs sub as well (i'm clearly biased here) and its nothing short of awesome. Its a 20-39 pc+ Speakers often sound different at home than in a listening room. At the worst you are out some shipping, but this could give you some time to play with placement and help decide what kind of sound you like even if the sound isn't for you. The pioneer elite reciever is no slouch, and having owned HK so in imho is a solid contender. I have a marantz SR-6300 and i love it. It is versatile for what i use it for although i hardly use anything but stereo and 5.1. I don't know about the new onyko line, if it is anything like their old models they are normally vastly underpowered (compared to their own specs) and fall short of anything considered "refined". Perhaps they have changed but i would be wary from things i've heard from and about this company in the past. I think you could do much better with the other brands you have mentioned. I guess its best if you had a listen if its possible with the speakers you have in mind if that is at all possible. Good luck with your search! |
|
New member Username: KbearPost Number: 10 Registered: Dec-06 | Thanks dman! Yeah, I'm a bit wary of Onkyo. Why take a chance on them when there are a bunch of other choices that are already proven? But I'll give them a fair shake. I know about Axiom and Ascend, to be honest I haven't considered them much but the chance to test them at home would be a pretty neat thing to do. Maybe... The first store I'm going to carries PSB and KEF speakers, for receivers they carry Marantz and NAD. Hopefully I can get a good sense from that one visit how the speakers stack up against each other, then go from there. I'll be honest, I'm hoping I love the KEFs as they look fantastic. |
|
Bronze Member Username: BaldeagleMichigan USA Post Number: 60 Registered: Oct-07 | So what receiver did you go in for? |
|
Bronze Member Username: KbearPost Number: 11 Registered: Dec-06 | Actually, I'll be heading out this coming week to do some auditions. I've come up with a list of stores to check out. No change on the receivers that I will consider, it's still between those six brands. Other speaker brands that these stores carry that I am looking forward to hearing aside from PSB and KEF are Tannoy, Monitor Audio, B&W, Paradigm, and Quad. I've budgeted about $1,700 for the five speakers and $800 for the receiver, but those numbers can move up or down slightly as long as the total is around $2,500. In the limited listening that I've done in my life, and going by what I've read about musical terms, I think I can determine that I prefer a somewhat forward and bright sound, spaciousness (good soundstaging), not thin but also not boomy (good clean bass) but more of an emphasis on the midrange. I like hard rock, and so I like music that sounds impactful. Drums are something I've noticed. Some speakers can make a drum sound very impactful, others much less so. I like, when there is a hard drum hit, for there to be a clean hard THWACK! that's very forward in the mix, and even some reverberation or echo (kind of like upper bass, so you feel the impact, but it's also clean and well composed). But I plan to listen to a lot of receiver/speaker combos, so maybe I'll determine that I actually prefer something a little more laid back. We'll see. Hard rock won't be the only thing I listen to though...some softer stuff I'd like to listen to as well (think Sheryl Crow), so I'm hoping for a system that has some versatility. |
|
Bronze Member Username: KbearPost Number: 12 Registered: Dec-06 | Actually, maybe emphasis on the midrange isn't the best way to describe it. I'm looking for detail, clarity, and spaciousness, a very open and impactful sound, but I don't think I want emphasis on any one frequency range. The midrange just shouldn't be recessed is all I mean, with smooth but present highs and detailed (not muddy) lows. A good sub (HSU) could probably handle much of what I want from the lows. |
|
Gold Member Username: Arande2Rattle your ... Missouri Post Number: 2650 Registered: Dec-06 | Always HSU and not ML isn't it  Ahh, you couldn't afford ML anyway. It would eat up more than your whole budget hahahaha So why am I even bringing it up? (DON'T ANSWER THAT!) |
|
Bronze Member Username: KbearPost Number: 14 Registered: Dec-06 | I don't know if I should post this here or in the speaker section. Anyways, today I went out to listen at some audio shops (2 to be exact). The first system I heard was a pair of PSB T45 fronts powered by a Marantz stereo receiver and a Marantz CD player. They didn't have the 5002 receiver so I couldn't listen to that, but the salesman said that this should give me a pretty good idea of the sound I'd get with the 5002. It sounded great I'll admit, but it didn't really wow me. Everything was clear, very smooth, and the bass well controlled. I would be fine with this as my system I think, but again, I was hoping to be wowed a bit. The second store I went to was pushing this one deal they had, and the salesman said it was the best value they had going, by far. These are a couple of brands I hadn't really considered, though I know they are well regarded. I'll lay it out here: Mordaunt Short 906 fronts Mordaunt Short 905 center Mordaunt Short 903 dipole rears Mordaunt Short 409 subwoofer Cambridge Audio Azur 640R reciever Cambridge Audio DV89 Universal DVD Player Regular price was somewhere up in the $5,000 range, on sale for $2,899. The salesman said they did a lot of business with Cambridge and they often get package deals that Cambridge helps out with, but it's only a limited number of sets and the sale lasts as long as they have units in stock. I got the impression that they often put together packages like this one. Anyways, I listened, and came away quite impressed. The main impression I had was that the speakers were more detailed than the PSBs since I was hearing sounds in the music that I normally do not and that I didn't on the PSB/Marantz setup. The sub was a bit boomy, but the salesman noted that it was set for HT. When the sub was not used (stereo only mode) things really sounded great. I'm off to read up on the Azur 640R. If anyone has any comments on any of these components I'd love to hear them. I've still got many stores to check out over the next two or three days where I will hope to hear something from Monitor Audio, Quad, Tannoy, and KEF on the speaker end and NAD, Onkyo, Denon, and Pioneer Elite on the receiver end. |
|
Bronze Member Username: KbearPost Number: 16 Registered: Dec-06 | I'm going to have to make a thread in the speaker section as my speaker options are really piling up. Each store I go to seems to result in a new consideration as far as speakers go. Which speakers I decide to buy will ultimately decide how much receiver I can get: Marantz 5002 and the like on the one hand or Cambridge 640/NAD T755 on the other. |
|
Bronze Member Username: KbearPost Number: 27 Registered: Dec-06 | Hey all, Just wanted a bit of insight on how you'd pair receivers, first to the type of music, and then to the speakers they power. I'm looking in the $600-$800 range. Still considering the following brands: Marantz Denon Onkyo Pioneer Elite Harman Kardon NAD (would obviously be above budget) The first three more strongly than the rest. Now that I have my speaker choices narrowed down to three, a few questions: 1. Assume you enjoy rock (often of the hard variety) - which brands of receiver do you think that genre is most suited to? 2. I've narrowed down the speakers to Monitor Audio and PSB (will audition Tannoy in the coming days). Which receivers typically match up with these brands of speaker? 3. How would you rate the above receiver brands in terms of warm vs. bright? One thing I've learned while auditioning the past week or so is that I think I prefer a more smooth, laid back, full, and neutral to warm colored speaker. Is that how you'd class PSB and Monitor Audios? Also, is that the so-called British sound? These probably sound like supid questions, but I'm still a rookie at auditioning and so I don't have much to compare to. If I'm not mistaken, you'd normally want to match a warm speaker to a bright receiver...I'm not sure therefore, if Marantz matches up well with Monitor Audio, Tannoy, and PSB. However, it seems to me that most dealers that carry MA speakers also carry Marantz, at least in my area. |
|
Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2283 Registered: May-05 | "One thing I've learned while auditioning the past week or so is that I think I prefer a more smooth, laid back, full, and neutral to warm colored speaker. Is that how you'd class PSB and Monitor Audios?" It's a good description of PSB and MA. But... I listen to classic and modern hard rock/metal almost exclusively. I used to like the laid back, warm, and smooth gear too. But it quickly gets old with this type of music. It sounds a little too muddy and slow. Lower tuned electric giutars start to sound like bass guitars. Fast paced drums start to get a bit fuzzy. This isn't true of all laid back, warm gear. But most gear in this price range and description does it. McIntosh doesn't do this. Then again, it costs multiples of your (and my) budget. I went from a NAD/PSB system, to a Bryston and soon to buy PMC system. If you haven't heard it, try to hear Rotel. It has more bounce in its step, so to speak. It pair up very well with Paradigm, MA, and PSB, whom all have some of the traits you're looking for. For what I think rock music should heard on, try to hear a Bryston/PMC, Naim, or Rega system. They cost a lot more, but it may change the way you think it should sound. To my ears, this music preformed live doesn't sound warm, laid back, nor slow. If music is the main priority, and you can get away with running a 2 channel set up connected to your TV (you'd be amazed at how good a good 2 channel stereo can sound with TV), this may free up funds to get some better gear. You can get a far better 2 channel pre-amp/amp combo or integrated amp for the same money as a surround receiver. Same goes with buying 2 speakers vs 5 or 7. |
|
Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2284 Registered: May-05 | For example - The $3K max you stated could buy you a Rega Mira 3/Apollo/R3 system that'll blow the doors off of anything you've listed from a music standpoint. If you're lucky, you could find a used Naim Nait 5i and CD5i on Audiogon, and get some Rega R5s. Just some food for thought. |
|
Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2285 Registered: May-05 | Sorry to keep posting... Research "flat earth" audio and PRaT (pace, rythym, and timing). Read a few Naim, Rega, and Linn reviews. |
|
Bronze Member Username: KbearPost Number: 28 Registered: Dec-06 | Hi Stu, I do think I want 5.1. I want to listen to SACD and DVD-A in full glory, plus I do watch movies. Music is definitely important...not so much so that I'd pass on 5.1 entirely, it's more that I don't want 5.1 to compromise musical quality in a very significant way. In truth, I was also planning on vastly upgrading my current music-only stereo after the HT is done (and probably after a few years of saving some money to do it). My stereo currently consists of a Denon minisystem, Energy C-1 speakers, and a Mission MS-8 sub. So my tentative plans are to have a HT, plus a higher quality music only system. But I will look into the things you've suggested. I'll read about those terms and check out some reviews on the brands you mentioned. I'll let you know what I think. Your comment about the warm, smooth, and laid back gear and how it presents hard rock is something I've thought about. The songs I take to audition are Patience and November Rain, two songs I know well. Patience is soft the entire way through (all acoustic guitar and vocals), and of course NR can get a bit hard but is still relatively tame. I guess these aren't the best rock songs to use to really test laid back and warm gear, because they are probably the kind of rock songs that lend themselves to that kind of sound. I'll keep that in mind, though I'll admit I was really looking forward to having that kind of set up, in comparison to my stereo which is, I think, very forward and bright sounding. |
|
Bronze Member Username: KbearPost Number: 29 Registered: Dec-06 | This is about the best discussion that I found on PRaT: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/155421.html For what I think rock music should heard on, try to hear a Bryston/PMC, Naim, or Rega system. They cost a lot more, but it may change the way you think it should sound. To my ears, this music preformed live doesn't sound warm, laid back, nor slow. No, it doesn't. But are we talking about studio albums or live albums here? I sure don't want my studio albums to sound like a live show. Live rock shows are pretty messy, unless you have a nice soundboard recording. And if you do, then I suppose having it sound as it did live is ideal. I usually listen to studio recordings myself, though I am very much into collecting concerts of my very favourite bands. But ask me how the show sounded live and I'd struggle to say. Rock shows are LOUD!!! You can get a general sense on how things sound, the tone of a high pitched electric guitar, the pounding of the drums, but it's more of an approximation I think as the ability to really listen to the entire production is quite compromised. Depends on the show I suppose, but most rock shows is what I'm referring to, not stuff like Unplugged. I don't think I'd want my stereo quite as bright and forward as a live rock show. I'm not sure how laid back and warm I'd like it to be either for that matter... |
Main Forums
Today's Posts- Home Audio Forum
- A/V Receivers Forum
- Amps Forum
- Cassette Forum
- CD Players Forum
- CD Recorders Forum
- DAC & Transports Forum
- DVD-Audio & SACD Forum
- Equalizers Forum
- Integrated Amps Forum
- iPod Docks Forum
- MiniDisc Forum
- Mini Systems Forum
- Digital Music Systems Forum
- Phono Forum
- Preamps Forum
- Speakers Forum
- Subwoofers Forum
- Tuners Forum
- Home Video Forum
- Home Theater Forum
- Car Audio Forum
- Accessories Forum
- All Forum Topics