Naim Nait 5i vs NAC122x/NAP150X
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New member Username: Kiwi_jonnoPost Number: 6 Registered: Aug-07 | Have any Naim users done much comparing the Nait 5i to the seperate pre/power NAC122x / NAP150X? F0r me the Nait 5i is $2500 while the seperates are around $4300 give or take. I have the CD5x so IDEALLY want to match with a Naim amp. The supernait is out out of reach. Both of these above amps are 50w. Im told the seperates would have more drive and current then the Nait 5i? Is this right? Also a HiFI mag did a test on the power @ 8ohms for the 5i and was actually 65w. Am wondering if the same can be said for the power amp? Amp would currently be driving Paradigm Monitor 7s (94dB sensitivity) but want to get ProAc Studio 140s in future. http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2006/proac_140.shtml These are... Nominal impedance is rated at 8 ohms, with sensitivity at 91dB, 15 and 250 watts per channel. Any thoughts? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2453 Registered: Sep-04 | Jonathan, I have a fair bit of experience with both those amplifiers. In essence the Nait5i is a 150x with a passive preamp built into it. As you'd expect, the 122x/150x is a superior beast all round. However, it does not have more power, and if anything has a tiny little bit less power because the power amp has to drive the preamp (Naim preamps do not have power supplies and must be powered by an external unit, be it a power supply or a power amp). However, the 122x preamp is far far better than the one in the Nait 5i! It's cleaner, has better resolution, better depth and generally less stressed than the Nait 5i. there's something really quite special about the 122x. Its predecessor (112x) was really quite limited by comparison and some people even preferred the Nait 5i since t had a livelier feel, but this is not true of the 122x. As for drive, both amps can happily drive those speakers. I know the Naim amps have a low power rating, but they seem to punch well above their weight in that respect. Both speakers you mention are very sensitive and easy to drive, so there's no problems there. I regularly drive more difficult speakers than that such as Totem Rainmakers, Dynaudio Audience 42 and 52 in a fairly large room (7m x 5m) with no problems. If you can afford to go for the pre/power, it's well worthwhile. It allows you to connect more sources and has the ability to be upgraded in future with a separate power supply (flatcap 2x) which can power both your CD5x and 122x, and it's a more satisfying performance than the Nait 5i. To those who have a Nait 5i, your amp is a wonderful little machine which hits all the right buttons, it's just that the 122x/150x is that bit better...sorry... Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: Kiwi_jonnoPost Number: 7 Registered: Aug-07 | Thanks heaps for that post. I know a lot more now. The seperates are a tempting buy. Do you know what the power amp does into 4ohms etc? And if its real output is more then 50w? As the Nait is 65w |
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New member Username: Kiwi_jonnoPost Number: 8 Registered: Aug-07 | Thanks heaps for that post. I know a lot more now. The seperates are a tempting buy. Do you know what the power amp does into 4ohms etc? And if its real output is more then 50w? As the Nait is 65w |
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New member Username: Kiwi_jonnoPost Number: 9 Registered: Aug-07 | Thanks heaps for that post. I know a lot more now. The seperates are a tempting buy. Do you know what the power amp does into 4ohms etc? And if its real output is more then 50w? As the Nait is 65w |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8988 Registered: Dec-04 | JC the Naim seperates are expecting a stable load of 6 ohms or more. This kit is all about dynamics, not grunt alone. Think maybe Naim's speaker line> Or a Rega R5, mmm, or Quad 21L's. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2463 Registered: Sep-04 | Jonathan, I read that review where they claimed the power was higher than the rated Naim power. As I said earlier, the 150x and the Nait 5i's power amp are very closely related. they sound much of a muchness in terms of power - i.e. I have to turn them up about the same to get similar volume levels and they run out of steam around the same point (high). I used to drive 94db sensitive speakers with my old Naim 62/90. The 90 was a 30wpc amplifier. I never ran out of steam and was more likely to overdo the speakers than anything else. Therefore I would not expect there to be any issues with ProAC 140s, apart from the fact they're ProAcs!  Nah, seriously ProAc is a good brand who make decent speakers. The 150x and Nait 5i will prefer an easy load but they can drive 4 ohm loads well provided it's not too difficult a load, so you're n good shape here, whichever you go for, but I'd still advocate the 122x/150x, since the 140s are quite discerning of what's fed them. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: FazliRiyadh, Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-07 | Which under $1,000 bookshelf speakers would anyone recpmmend to match the NAIM Nait 5? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2489 Registered: Sep-04 | Fazli Strictly speaking this should go in the Speakers forum. However here are some options: Focal Chorus 705V or 706V B&W 686 or 685 Dynaudio Audience 42 or 52 Totem Dreamcatcher or Mite There are loads more. These ones I have used with the Nait5i in rooms up to 7m x 5m without problems. NOTE: If you really meant the older Nait5, and not Nait5i or latest 5i, then remove the Dynaudio 52 and possibly the Dreamcatcher from that list. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: Kiwi_jonnoPost Number: 10 Registered: Aug-07 | Am kinda leaning towards the Nait 5i here as its only $2500, instead of $8800 for the Naim seperates... It still is gonna bring out a lot more in the Naim CD5x, compared to the HK970. The Flatcap 2 also seems like a compareable upgrade as the bass was just so much better with it. As far as upgrading the Paradigm Monitor 7 v5 goes, whats everyones opinions on these following speakers... all are similar price in NZ dollars. Naim Allae ($6000 ish) ProAc 140 ($4695) Image 414 loudspeakers ($2500) Paradigm Studio 60 ($3299) Rega R7 ($4300) BMW's??? To hard to drive? Are all these above speakers OK with the Nait 5i? |
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Bronze Member Username: Kiwi_jonnoPost Number: 11 Registered: Aug-07 | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 08:52 pm: Am kinda leaning towards the Nait 5i here as its only $2500, instead of $8800 for the Naim seperates... It still is gonna bring out a lot more in the Naim CD5x, compared to the HK970. The Flatcap 2 also seems like a compareable upgrade as the bass was just so much better with it. As far as upgrading the Paradigm Monitor 7 v5 goes, whats everyones opinions on these following speakers... all are similar price in NZ dollars. Naim Allae ($6000 ish) ProAc 140 ($4695) Image 414 loudspeakers ($2500) Paradigm Studio 60 ($3299) Rega R7 ($4300) BMW's??? To hard to drive? Are all these above speakers OK with the Nait 5i? |
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Bronze Member Username: Kiwi_jonnoPost Number: 12 Registered: Aug-07 | Am kinda leaning towards the Nait 5i here as its only $2500, instead of $8800 for the Naim seperates... It still is gonna bring out a lot more in the Naim CD5x, compared to the HK970. The Flatcap 2 also seems like a compareable upgrade as the bass was just so much better with it. As far as upgrading the Paradigm Monitor 7 v5 goes, whats everyones opinions on these following speakers... all are similar price in NZ dollars. Naim Allae ($6000 ish) ProAc 140 ($4695) Image 414 loudspeakers ($2500) Paradigm Studio 60 ($3299) Rega R7 ($4300) BMW's??? To hard to drive? Are all these above speakers OK with the Nait 5i? |
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Bronze Member Username: Kiwi_jonnoPost Number: 13 Registered: Aug-07 | Am kinda leaning towards the Nait 5i here as its only $2500, instead of $8800 for the Naim seperates... It still is gonna bring out a lot more in the Naim CD5x, compared to the HK970. The Flatcap 2 also seems like a compareable upgrade as the bass was just so much better with it. As far as upgrading the Paradigm Monitor 7 v5 goes, whats everyones opinions on these following speakers... all are similar price in NZ dollars. Naim Allae ($6000 ish) ProAc 140 ($4695) Image 414 loudspeakers ($2500) Paradigm Studio 60 ($3299) Rega R7 ($4300) BMW's??? To hard to drive? Are all these above speakers OK with the Nait 5i? |
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Bronze Member Username: Kiwi_jonnoPost Number: 14 Registered: Aug-07 | Shoot my appologies for posting a few times! Was having trouble with Mozilla Firefox posting here... sorry |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2518 Registered: Sep-04 | Jonathan, I'm surprised at the difference in price. The separate 122x/150x should only be twice the price of the Nait5i. Incidentally, the amp has just been upgraded with the new nomenclature being 5i instead of 5i - not very clear but there you go. The new models (the cd player has likewise been upgraded) are referred to as the italics. The Naim Allae is a fine speaker which works equally well in small or large rooms. It offers superb performance if you like the sound. Naim speakers are very much an acquired taste! They're lean in the bass and lightning fast. If there is bass in the track then they'll hit you with it but if not then they'll not butter you up either. This means they're a riskier proposition. What I've found is that if someone likes the sound of a Naim speaker it's very difficult to find them anything else they'll like and even more difficult to wean them off said speaker. Kind of a lifelong love affair. Although naim Allaes are ported, they're designed to be used near the rear wall. One can pull them away from the wall if too much bass is present of course. This allows for a certain amount of tailoring on the part of the customer, but I ahve known the occasional person who simply had too much bass and couldn't get rid of it, quite in contrast to the usual problem of Naim's 'too lean' bass. ProAC 140s are a lot of perceived value for money. They're very well made and give a lot of sound for the pound. I personally find them a touch on the mechanical side but there are many many people who swear by them. No idea about the Image or Paradigms. I'm not a fan of Rega's current range of speakers. I find them boxy and limited in bandwidth. That said, once again, there are many who love the Rega presentation. BMWs are not any harder to drive than any car! B&Ws on the other hand are a different kettle of fish. It depends on what level you're talking about. If you're talking about the top end of the 68x series, the 683s are a very nicely made speaker with very good midrange (courtesy of their outstanding FST unit) and treble. I find all B&Ws to have a bit of a disconnected bass, which is why I tend to prefer their smaller speakers personally; since there is less bass to worry about from a smaller speaker, what is there is likely to be better integrated with the rest of the frequency range or at least less of an issue. The 68x series are easy to drive. The presentation is a bit warm for my liking but they are good speakers that a lot of people are liking. The 700 series is likely to be on its last legs. The 705 is a good speaker. It is a large standmount, but I must admit I never considered driving it with a Nait5i. I don't know that the Nait5i will have the legs to drive it adequately. More likely, something like a SuperNAIT would be required. The 703 is in another league and needs loads of space (as does the 705) and lots of control. Personally I think the 700 series, good though it is, is a bit much for a Nait5i... Is Focal JM Lab in your area? Their 700V series would definitely be worth looking at. Another option, if your local dealers have Naim speakers (you're looking at the Allae), some people have preferred a similarly priced option in the form of Naim n-Sats allied to a Naim n-Sub. The n-Sat is a small sealed two way monitor designed to work against the wall. On its own it is fabulous fun. Typically Naim, in that it is super quick with a very lean bass presentation. They're best on their dedicated stands which have a unique and effective mounting configuration. In adding the Naim n-Sub you get faithful bass reproduction down to 22hz. The sub integrates beautifully with the n-Sats courtesy of a total lack of cabinet resonance and typically super-quick reflexes. This means that it works really well for music as well as movies. We often put it into high end systems to give the very deepest notes a bit more body. It's an excellent sub anyway in other words, but the combination with the n-Sats means that you get a really synergistic solution for similar money to the Allaes. The areas I would say the Allaes leave behind the n-Sats is midrange presence and slam. On the other hand, the n-Sat/n-Sub combination can have a bit more bite to it and a bit more depth courtesy of the sub. Just a thought... Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: Kiwi_jonnoPost Number: 15 Registered: Aug-07 | Thanks a lot for the very detailed and informative post! Wow interesting to hear the Nait(i) is now Nait(i). (With Italic incase it doesnt show!). What are the upgrades in the "new" Nait? I take it they would be pretty minimal however? I havent seen anything on the Naim website or elsewhere, mind you I havent looked overly hard. Is the sound slightly improved as well? Thanks for the help on the speakers. The dealers in my area have the above brands, as well as Mission, Sonus Faber, Dynaudio. Iv heard the Dyns are a real struggle to drive? I heard the Naim speakers and really liked them even though they are expensive. I thought they had good amount of bass to. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2522 Registered: Sep-04 | Jonathan, Dynaudios are 4-ohm loads so you need to exercise caution when driving them. That said, the Nait5i can drive Audience 42, 52, 52SE (very good combination) and 62. That's where I'd stop with the Nait. The realy nice thing about Dynaudio load is that it is very even indeed, more so than most, so amplifiers find they can control the speaker more easily, even though it might be a bit more thirsty to get sound out of. The Nait5i differs from its predecessor in a number of ways. From their website: "These include improved ceramic heat sinking, restructured cabling, and circuit changes to lower distortion and improve RF rejection." Also, a 3.5mm input socket on the front is provided primarily for use with MP3 players. A colleague of mine has listened to it briefly and he says it's a nice improvement over the outgoing 5i. That said, the older 5i was already an excellent amplifier. It's not suddenly old hat not worth listening to any more. When it comes to making choices, I'm afraid you're the only person who can choose what is going to float your boat for you. I can make suggestions, but then you're going to have to hear the options and figure out which flavour you prefer... Regards, Frank. |
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