Receiver Types - Setting up a new home system
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New member Username: GuysonPost Number: 1 Registered: Oct-07 | We are redoing our family room. New set up will include a 42" plasma HDTV, DVD player, cable box and a non-surround sound speaker set up (just 4 in the ceiling). What type of receivers should we look at? Is there a stereo receiver with HDMI ports? Or should we just go for a 5-channel receiver and just use it with four speakers? |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 505 Registered: Jun-07 | I would go with the receiver. Allows you to add that all important center channel perhaps in the future. If your not planning on doing the full Surround sound, a stereo receiver will do your 4 speakers running A and B speakers together. It will be Stereo of course, but a lot of people on this forum have great success with running two channel audio for movies as well. Cheers. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2387 Registered: Sep-04 | Guy, I recommend going for a full surround sound receiver and runing it in phantom (4.1) mode until you decide you can cope with a centre speaker. If you rarely replace your home entertainment gear, try to get one which is as future-proofed as possible. This means getting one which understands and decodes the latest uncompressed audio tracks from the high definition formats (HD-DVD and BluRay). You don't have to spend huge sums to do this: Onkyo's TX-SR605 is around $600 and includes these formats. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 507 Registered: Jun-07 | Frank- The new NAD line now does this as well. Just a heads up. But the entry level Receiver in the new NAD line will run 2.5 times more expensive than the Onkyo. Worth it? perhaps. But for 600 bucks its tough to beat the Onkyo Guy for specs man. For the price it is a dandy choice. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11413 Registered: May-04 | . "I recommend going for a full surround sound receiver and runing it in phantom (4.1) mode until you decide you can cope with a centre speaker." It has been pointed out on this forum that removing a channel from Dolby Digital 5.1 systems will automatically result in a 8-15dB reduction in dynamic range. This seems to be a flaw (Dolby doesn't see it as such) designed into the DD software and confirmed in the white paper provided by Dolby Labs. The software automatically shifts into "midnight mode" compression whenever the 5.1 channels are downmixed. Since the entirety of any high definition broadcasts are dictated to include Dolby Digital signals, this would result in a compromised performance from a new system. The situation would be the same for most DVD material since DD is the pervalent format. DTS does not suffer from the same format problems. http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/h....html#post11862 Scroll down to; September 14th, 2006, 5:31 PM. . |
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Bronze Member Username: SobeeatchPost Number: 42 Registered: Sep-07 | I suggest you go with a 5 channel receiver and use it in the mode you find most pleasing to you. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2390 Registered: Sep-04 | Jan, The alternative is to go with a stereo amplifier and downmix in the player which will still result in the reduction in dynamic range which is a real pain in the butt and very obvious. At least with the full surround option Guy is future-proofed and can add the necessary centre speaker as and when convenient. Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: 007bPost Number: 16 Registered: Oct-07 | Exactly, Frank. Jan doesn't even respond to the poster. Just goes off on one of his pedantic tangents. I guess he'll report my comments to the Administrator and have me banned. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11450 Registered: May-04 | . I wasn't arguing for a stereo receiver. I was pointing out an issue that really should be addressed more often when HT receiver/component recommendations are made. It was actually PG who brought this to the forum's attention. I agree that letting the client know what they will get will in the long run benefit everyone. I'd hate to sell a decent system to someone who decides, through lack of knowledge, to forgo a center channel, only to have them hear their neighbor's HTIB system and feel they are missing out. . |
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Bronze Member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 92 Registered: Aug-06 | Okay, I've stayed out of this, because frankly, both sides are way outta line. I've sat back and eaten bags of popcorn watchin y'all go at it, but I'm bored now. Wiley, Jan put down a useful and knowledgeable response with regards to the question at hand. Frank put down a useful and knowledgeable response with regards to the question at hand. You come in, and bash Jan.... If you want to fight, can you keep it in the "ban wiley" or "efficiency" thread, for the good of all the other members. Thanks in advance, Marc |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2138 Registered: May-05 | Did I miss something in this thread? Where does this one go bad? Or has it been censored? |
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Bronze Member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 93 Registered: Aug-06 | Stu, your ignore button works really well...what kind is it? Read again, you'll find a shot at JV. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5410 Registered: Feb-05 | I run a 4.1 with a phantom center and it sounds very good. I'm not looking to ad a center anytime soon. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2407 Registered: Sep-04 | Baxter, Jan's response was entirely appropriate and accurate. I did not dispute the fact that there is a bandwidth reduction when downmixing (something which annoys me intensely). In fact, I learned something, because I was only aware of the problem in downmix to 2-channel. Jan would be right to be annoyed at your response, which was not only unhelpful but antagonistic as well. I'm just glad he's taken the sensible route and ignored you, rather than retaliating. Regards, Frank. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11479 Registered: May-04 | . "I run a 4.1 with a phantom center and it sounds very good. I'm not looking to ad a center anytime soon." I can understand how, under certain circumstances, you would find the sound quality sufficient to your needs. Personally, I find center channels to be more distracting than beneficial and ran my HT system for years without a center. The program material I most listen to is not dependent upon large scale dynamic range to impress the audience. The example used for many of these dynamic range comparisons is "Master and Commander" or whatever that RC movie was a few years ago. As you can guess, that movie isn't in my library. If your tastes don't require the dynamics of explosions, car crashes and intergallactic thermonueclear devices being detonated, you might not notice much difference when downmixing to less that 5.1 channels. The sales experience for HT, however, is about impessive scale. If a client is buying a new HT system for the sort of viewing that would depend on full dynamic range, downmixing will present obvious compromises. "Buyer remorse" is a real thing salespeople must contend with and a satisfied client is a client who provides more business. Satisfaction doen't come when the buyer finds his neighbor's Bose Lifestyle system to be better in any way than what he's purchased and installed. That's the point. I do run my system with a center channel now. It has always been turned down and the main speakers run full range. I can't say it makes any significant improvement in the material I listen to. But DD's white papers bear out the fact this is how to get the "best" performance from their software. Salespeople most especially should be able to provide accurate information regarding the advantages and disadvantages of system configuration. That's all. You get to run your system any ol' way you like. . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5416 Registered: Feb-05 | Yep, at this time I just can't see spending nearly $400 on a matching center for the Rega's and that's probably the only way I'd use one is if it matched the mains. Then there's finding room for it, nah not now anyway. BTW I watch a variety of movies from indies and foreign films to Hollywood blockbusters and action films, I just don't need it that loud...gettin' old I guess. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2150 Registered: May-05 | I find two channels more than sufficient for my needs. Furthermore, no one has come into my listening room (TV also in there) and been unwhelmed by the sound in anyway. I run an interconnect from the audio out on the back of the TV to my integrated amp and turn the TV volume all the way down. I'd hit mute, but I can't get rid of "MUTING" displayed on the screen. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8858 Registered: Dec-04 | Although I have to move the speakers on sharp spikes between music and film, the points for each are on the rug, and each will provide more than enough from either position. The tape marks are handy for movies, and placement is crucial, as my exasperated wife rolls her eyes. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 779 Registered: May-06 | M.R. found a way to have his cake and eat it to (so to speak). His wife appreciates his set up, whereas Marsh on other hand, no longer rolls her eyes, she just stopped coming into the room. I have tape on the floor for my speakers and chair. Someone once moved my chair of all things. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11494 Registered: May-04 | . I suspect it had to be done. To check for dead critters if nothing else. . |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 783 Registered: May-06 | Oh, so that's why my chair got moved. Dead critters get tossed behind the chair with just about everything else. Can't be having anything between the chair and soundstage, except occasionally this laptop I am typing on. Some day this will morph into a real room which company can comfortably come into and enjoy. Just not anytime soon. Right now entering the room requires signing a waiver "enter at your own risk". |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8878 Registered: Dec-04 | I have been there, and they guy made me sign it, no shite... |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11496 Registered: May-04 | . I've been there and felt at risk. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8879 Registered: Dec-04 | I really have to espouse the 2.1 thing. And this is gonna look nasty, but you really gotta have a good stereo to make the 2.1 work. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2154 Registered: May-05 | Absolutely Nuck. But keep in mind the costs - Surround receiver, at least 5 speakers, and a sub. Keeping the same budget - 2 channel amplification, 2 speakers, and possibly a sub. Which one will be better quality overall? What's the absloute best surround setup you can get for say, $5000? What's the best 2 channel setup you can get for the same money? The only thing the surround setup will have on the stereo is side and back effects. If the OP is into action movies with tons of explosions and special effects, the best 2 channel system probably won't be half as good as an average surround system. If he's watching sports and sitcoms almost exclusively, there's no need for the extra channels. In this case. put the money into 2 very good channels rather than 5 or 6 mediocre ones. |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 546 Registered: Jun-07 | hmmmm well it depends on what Guy wants to watch in this setup like Stu already said. Too bad we have not heard from GUY since he created this thread. Guy if your a movie buff, and you want the full audiophile movie sound quality(DTS,Umcompressed PCM,HD-Audio formats) which will blow away a two channel experience with any new DVD you buy, then you need an A/V receiver. Movies these days really push the Digital Audio formats. Most will throw a 2 channel PCM mode in there that is not near the quality of the, say, DTS-EX mix. You can also build a great quality home theater that has very good quality two channel sound. You may have to spend a little more to do so. Dropping the center channel includes dropping the Mixes SQ about 20, to 30 percent. 65 percent of all movie material, in surround sound, is on the center channel. The center channel IS the most important speaker in a 5.1 setup. When down mixing to 4.1, the receiver will try to divide the center material throughout the two front speakers, resulting in loss of depth and sound stage to the movie's mix, and dialog. If the Dialog/Voices is mixed with the main sound stage to the movie, the experience will be crap. But Stu is right, if your only going to watch TV and the odd 1959 Western movie, than go with a great two channel setup by all means. Cheers. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2425 Registered: Sep-04 | Guy, Nick makes an excellent point about the importance of the centre channel in a surround mix. It's remarkable how much of a movie's content comes through the centre channel. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11528 Registered: May-04 | . " ... odd 1959 Western movie ... " They're not all odd. I was watching "One Foot in Hell" the other day. Allan Ladd plays a made-it-to-sherriff by killing the former sherriff who hired Ladd's character as his deputy. Ladd's character was a Yellow Bellied Southern Reb to most of the townspeople when he arrived and his wife dies because they wouldn't allow him $1.87 credit on the medicine she needed. So he plots revenge on the whole town. OK, it sounds "odd" but it was pretty good right up until the writers boxed themself into the ending. I don't want to spoil it for anyone who would prefer to rent this one, but Ladd's character dies. One more notch in the Hollywood Western's Big Iron. But it was in mono so there was a need for more than one speaker for that movie. Watch it with someone you love, the sweet spot is huge! . |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 551 Registered: Jun-07 |  nice Jan. I will watch that one. |
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