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New member Username: FerrariPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-07 | Hello- I currently have a Yamaha RX-2600 with KEF KHT9000 (3 on wall) plus 2 KEF Surrounds (8000's) and a Velodyne DPS-12 Sub. I tend to run 5 channel sound and while i like the Yamaha it will cut off (shut down) at about 80% max volume when listening to rock music or loud music in general. I want something that can play alot louder since the KEF's seem like they need more power in 2 Channel and definitely in 5 Channel mode. I also will be upgrading to a Pioneer Plasma Kuro so i will still need HDMI 1080P switching. So since my Yamaha won't pass a 1080P signal and will bomb out if the volume goes to high i guess i am now looking at seperates. I have seen the ADCOM GTP- 870 HD/ GFA-7707 line and also a little bit of the Anthem series. If you had my config and was looking to spend about 7K tops keeping the speaker setup and needing HDMI pass thru what would you suggest? Thanks in advance. |
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Bronze Member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 42 Registered: Aug-06 | Looking to blow some roof tops Byron? |
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New member Username: FerrariPost Number: 4 Registered: Aug-07 | most definitely - would like to wake the neighbors up on the weekends. |
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Bronze Member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 43 Registered: Aug-06 | Well hang tight my man, someone will be along shortly to help you out. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11149 Registered: May-04 | . How efficient are the KEF's and what is the lowest impedance point they hit? Any idea what the electrical phase angle of the speakers might be? I assume the Yamaha has a digital read out for (volume) level. How do you know you are playing at 80% max volume? Is the Yamaha capable of driving a low impedance load? How much louder do you want it to play? Why do you think the KEF's need lots of power? How much power do you have available with the Yamaha? Do you run the KEF's full range? . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8382 Registered: Dec-04 | Byron, would you really take advise on spending 7k on gear from an audio forum? Where is your dealer? |
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Gold Member Username: KanoBC Canada Post Number: 1221 Registered: Oct-04 | In my opinion the Yamaha's feature set and pre-amp section are pretty decent. Don't worry too much about 1080p pass through as you can easily split the HDMI signal before the receiver and get the best of all. I'd look at 2 channels of seperate amp to take the strain off the receiver - the Yammie should be able to run the centre and surrounds, no? I run a Harman Kardon AVR430 into a Yorkville AP800 (200x2) to power a Polk 5.1 and adding the amp really opened the whole system up, more than enough power now for anything I throw at it. http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html 2 of the above for $650 total just saved you $5000 and should deliver what your looking for. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2315 Registered: Sep-04 | The Yamaha delivers 130w/ch into 2 speakers and 105w with 5 channels driven, and although it's only a midrange surround amp, Yamaha usually supply fairly stiff power supplies. The KEFs are a relatively easy load: 88db/w/m, 8 ohms with minimum of 3.2. So what size room are you trying to fill and are you sure you're not trying to take the KEFs beyond their scope? Their maximum SPL is 111db at 1m AFAIK. This is nicely below pain threshold but easy to hit with a clean signal. Perhaps you need larger speakers with more scale, but your current choice indicates you want/need discreet speaker systems. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: FerrariPost Number: 8 Registered: Aug-07 | Thanks for the feedback. The room is about 18 feet long, 15 feet wide. The Yamaha will shut off in 2 channel mode at about 100 DB when playing for say 20-30 minutes at or about that volume range which is about 80-90% of max volume as read off the readout. The cabinet does get a bit hot but i have a fan on it as well. For people that have experience with Yamaha's should it go into safe mode when it reaches a temp threshold or just power off all together? It simply shuts off at high levels in 2 or 5 channel mode. Lower levels it runs fine for extended periods. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11154 Registered: May-04 | . You're driving the Yamaha too hard, IMO. The visual read out is no indication of the power usage, it is merely a numerical read out which provides repeatable level set. The power requirements will vary depending on the source material. A source with a higher voltage output will elicit higher power output from the Yamaha at the same numeric setting vs. a source with a lower output voltage. The numbers mean diddly when it comes to how much wattage is being supplied. Source material will determine how much power is required and bass heavy source material will quickly demand higher wattage. And wattage is a function of voltage and current over load. The "volume" display provides no insight into how much of either or both the amplifier must supply in order to drive the speakers to volume with adequate control. If the KEF's reach to 3.2 Ohms at some point, probably a bass frequency range where electrical phase angle is mostly capacitive, the amplifier is overtaxed. Being under-ventilated is only adding to your problems. Mostly, there are several issues at work here which are causing the shut down. Your figure of "100dB" is once again an unknown. How did you arrive at such a number? With a Radio Shack SPL meter? If so, you are missing the point. The meter is not very good at peak readings and it provides little discrimination between midrange and low frequency power requirements. I believe you are letting visual displays influence you in ways they cannot accurately accomplish. You need a translator. If the Yamaha is running hot, where will you place the new amplifier should you purchase one? Will it suffer the same issues of ventilation? If so, you have other issues to deal with before you spend money on new equipment. At the moment I'm more inclined to suggest more sensitive/efficient speakers which require less wattage to drive to your preferrred levels. There are, of course, issues with more sensitive speakers which would need to be addressed and this doesn't improve your amplification. But it would allow the volume levels you are desiring without taxing the current amplifier. If you want volume, you first buy it in speakers, not by buying more watts. This is a task better left to a qualified shop where you can listen and discuss what you really should have bought the first time. What sort of dealers are available to you in your area? Anything other than big box shops? . |
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New member Username: FerrariPost Number: 10 Registered: Aug-07 | Thanks for the feedback and questions. I think it's obvious the Yamaha is overtaxed and vent could be an issue (although i do have a fan on it) in combination with the load. I don't really want to buy another set of speakers since i like the KEF's but i will take your advice and look for a local dealer for help. The other option maybe is to add an outboard amp it looks like but i still may have some issues. thanks again. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11156 Registered: May-04 | . How do you have the fan positioned? It should be drawing air through the amplifier chassis rather than blowing air into the chassis. In other words, it should vent hot air away from the receiver. You should provide sufficient space beneath the receiver for air to flow from the bottom of the receievr through the chassis and out the top. If you are merely blowing hot air back into the receiver, you've simply made matters worse. . |
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Silver Member Username: LeonskiPost Number: 172 Registered: Jan-07 | The fan setup makes a difference. I picture a table fan blowing on the receiver. No good. You could actually be inhibiting airflow. Make sure your cooling is in order. I have, in the past, used a 4" box fan set to suck air from the top of a chassis.....makes a racket, but at the loudness levels where you need the fan, it doesn't matter! Is the room A/C'd? Hot rooms make matters worse. That being said, you apparently do need some more power... |
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Bronze Member Username: FerrariPost Number: 11 Registered: Aug-07 | Thanks- Yeah i have a fan (bought of ebay) that has a temp probe which pulls air out of the chassis once a certain temp is reached (lays flat on the chassis) I may try taking the Yamaha out of the rack and see if more airflow helps it- but i think it is a combo of the two. thx |