First time purchase of Hi Fi System - would love advice
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New member Username: NchantedPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi everyone, this is my first post here. I have spent a few days reading some posts here and just love what Im reading. Im based in Sydney Australia and am about to purchase my first hi fi system. Everything I've owned in the past has been crap and Im ready to enter the world of listening pleasure. I plan to purchase a set of Wharfedale Diamond 9.6 speakers. I want this system mostly for music, Im not really into DVDs, but guess a system that would accomodate this in the future would be a bonus. So my question is, what else do I need to buy to add to my Wharfedale Diamond 9.6's? I have no components at this stage (just an old Technics 3 in one) I would prefer to have as few pieces of equipment as possible, if this is sensible of course. This is what I would like to plug into my system: tv/video i-River (mp3 player) turntable headphones computer other speakers later on perhaps to enable surround sound This is what I want to listen to: CDs DVD's MP3 discs Files on my computer songs on my i-River FM radio I would appreciate any basic advice... i.e. what do I need.. total newbie here at your mercy! LOL Thanks if you can help. nchanted |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8269 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi Dawn. Our esteemed MR here should chime in, as he has a good sense of the AUS$. Dealer. Find a good dealer.This, and other forums are fine and well, but without a good dealer, you are on your own. Please work with a reputable dealer, and shop the used equipment rooms. Find some good stuff, lose the MP3's and watch for a Rega sale. |
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Bronze Member Username: SanioSouth Wester... Canada Post Number: 22 Registered: Jul-07 | Hi Dawn, welcome aboard... My suggestion would be to start small and build up. Set yourself a budget and go looking/listening for what sounds the best to you. Make sure (as Nuck suggests) you find a good dealer to help you in your journey. Buy that base system, with the intention of upgrading and improving it over time. But buy the best that you can afford. Next Sitdown and listen to it.... Give it time... I like wait between purchases 6 months to a year. This gives me time to understand the strengths and weaknesses of the current system. Once I have identified the weakest link, I begin searching for a replacement. Do not be afraid of used equipment, best places to find good quality components at good prices is in the trade-in areas of reputable dealers. Sometimes eBay and on line audio market places like Canuck Audio here in Canada. The downside of this is of course that you need to know what it is you are looking and be prepared to wait to find it. But if you have a good base system, the wait and search is sometimes half the fun. I would use these boards for advice on individual components and comments on service and support from dealers. They are also invaluable as a resource to understand the technology. A good understanding of the tech will help you avoid common pitfalls and to see thru Stereo Sales BS. I am not familiar with Wharfedale but it is as good a place to start as anywhere. Start by Adding a decent quality Amp/Pre combination or Integrated Amp and a CD player. I can recommend the NAD 317 or NAD C162/C272 Combo. I can recommend the NAD 523 CDP, it is older but quite servicable. I am however looking to replace it with something better. From what I have heard the Rega Apollo is a good choice. Buy good quality Cables, but do not go crazy, I found there was a significant improvment in tonality just be adding mid quality AudioQuest interconnects. hope this helps j |
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New member Username: NchantedPost Number: 2 Registered: Aug-07 | Thanks Nuck and John, I guess I have a long way to go. Unfortunately I live 2 hours from the nearest Hi-Fi shop which makes it quite a pain. Hopefully I'll find some time in the near future to go visit the store. I cant seem to find any reference on the web to NAD products here in Oz. Thanks again! Dawn |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1473 Registered: Nov-05 | Dawn, I have no experience with those speakers, but I feel NAD may go well with them if they are what you are set on, but it's your ears so your dealers should let you try a variety of gear in your price range. Nad is great value for money and the classic range, though maybe entry level (plus) into audiophilia to some, is great value for money. Use this link to the Aus NAD distributor, and you will find a search option to locate your nearest dealers http://www.audioproducts.com.au/ Other online sites come to mind http://www.castlehillhifi.com.au http://www.eeonline.com.au http://www.audiotrends.com.au |
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New member Username: NchantedPost Number: 3 Registered: Aug-07 | Thank you MR!!! this is great. There is a hi-fi shop listed about 20 minutes away! Dawn |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1476 Registered: Nov-05 | You're welcome Dawn. Good luck and let us know what eventuates. |
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New member Username: DmlmilPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-07 | I have experience with NAD, Wharfedale and, more recently, Arcam -- so I believe I can be of some assistance. NAD is great equipment. I currently use a NAD 320BEE Integrated Amp. The 320 (I think there is an updated 321BEE now) is probably not great for your needs, as it lacks a phono (record player) input. I originally used a NAD 521i CD player. It was fine. Not great detail and fairly weak on bass. By bass I am referring to the fullness of the sound. About 3 months ago I upgraded to Arcam's entry level CD player -- CD72. The improvement was unbelievable, so it is worth checking out Arcam. It might be above your price range (the NAD 521i was around US$190, whereas the Arcam CD72 was around US$700). I currently have a pair of Wharfedale Pacific Evo 8 bookshelf speakers. The Pacific Evo series is considered one step above the Diamonds, although both use similar technology. I love the sound of the Wharfedales, but they are not for everyone. British speaker paired with a British amp/cd player generally gives a warm sound. Thus, there is some lack of detail in the high end, and not exceptional low end. However the mid-range is spectacular. I listen mostly to classic jazz. I might stay away from wharfedales if you prefer hard rock or hiphop. Beautiful build quality on the Wharfedales. Have not had a single problem with the Wharfedales or NADs since I bought them 5 years ago. Hope that helped some. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 566 Registered: Jan-05 | "I might stay away from wharfedales if you prefer hard rock or hiphop." I'd disagree with the diamond 9.6s, what is it a four way design? It'll be much more appropriate with rock and any music really as the woofer will provide enough (and superior more natural) bass than a subwoofer. I'd recommend a recent tweak to you David, remove the jumper plates on the terminals if you don't biwire and replace the plates with wire. Then the detail is certainly there! Although I must say that you are using a c320 which isn't renowned for being that good with rock and metal and has enphasis on bass and midbass. I listen to a lot of metal and rock, using wharfedale speakers and think my cambridge audio amp is more suited for that kind of music. Hence why I bought it! Dave you do say you have some evo 8s, are these the old ones or the new evo2-8s? I was considering some not long back but realised how big they are (depth). Seriously though, removing those jumper plates for wire was one of the best things I've done with my system. JJ |
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New member Username: DmlmilPost Number: 2 Registered: Aug-07 | JJ, I recently biwired my Wharfedales -- and yes there was a noticable increase in mid-resolution and high end clarity. I also upgraded my speaker wires and interconnects specifically to increase soundstage and clarity. I am quite happy with my system, don't get me wrong. I think that a good deal of rock/rap albums are poorly recorded and it shows on higher end systems. But again, I listen almost exclusively to jazz and classical music, so my ear it towards the mid-range. I have the Evo 8s (purchased back in '02 or '03) not the recently released Evo2 8s. Whether there is a difference who knows. Wharfedales, like NADs, are not the "best" but they provide so much sound and sound quality for the money. Really a perfect entry system. The best thing is to know what kind of sound you want. I wanted a warm more relaxed sound as opposed to a more forward/crisp sound. That is what NADs give you. The other thing I loved about the Whafedale's was their real wood veneer (sp?). Beautiful speakers. Mays well look good if they are going to be a center point of your room. Best advice I ever got: buy a system that falls below your budget. Spend the remainder on "extras" like great speaker cable and interconnects, a power conditioner/cleaner, and good speaker stands. No one would ever put bicycle tires on a Ferrari. David |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8293 Registered: Dec-04 | And treat your room. |
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New member Username: DmlmilPost Number: 3 Registered: Aug-07 | You must not be married/engaged...  |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8295 Registered: Dec-04 | Multiples of each. Treat the room, but tastefully. Wife #2 appreciates this. |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 28 Registered: Aug-07 | Dawn, Wharfedale is a fine speaker co. I have sold them since the early 1980's. Wharf's need a little better power source. Try a mid level Denon or Harmon Kardon. For future use look for a unit with a front USB port. It will make digital applications easier to use. Do not sell Denon or Harmon Kardon recievers short. They provide good bang for the buck. This will also take care of any video in the future. Good wire will help, but don't get crazy. (I am in the cable business) Home theater is concerned with the center channel. 60% of the information is focused on the center channel. We can discuss this when you are ready. your friend, Db |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1477 Registered: Nov-05 | I agree with David about the Arcam, but also the NAD C542 (as does the cheaper C525 I believe) runs rings around the lesser models - it's a fine cdp and very good value for money and a few hundred (plus) less than the entry Arcam here. Wharfedales are made by the same company that makes Quad, so they should be well put together, unfortunately I have only seen them (budget models) in the big chain stores here so that tends to make some overlook them. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 627 Registered: May-06 | Dawn, Have you listened to live music? What type of music do you enjoy? What is your budget? Does size matter? (ASTHETICS, EVERYONE ELSE OUT THERE READY TO POUNCE ON THIS QUESTION!!!!) Will you describe the area where you will be setting your system up in? |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 134 Registered: Aug-04 | Dawn D, how big is the listening room, where the gear will reside? What's you price range for this gear? P.S. You should hear Judas Priest's Sad Wings Of Destiny (the JVC Victor K2 20 Bit Remaster from Japan) through my Wharfedale Opus 2 and the components I use. Holy Mackeral! Absolutely amazing sound! Sad Wings Of Destiny is a very intense....emotional and very musical album! It all comes across extremely well on this 20 Bit K2 version. Oh yeah, Wharfedale does metal.....yes they do. Can anyone say Queensryche The Warning album? Oh man, I knew you could! Killer on the Wharfys! |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 568 Registered: Jan-05 | David. Completely right that wharfedale provide a lot of sound for the money. My stands should be here in about a week. I'm really interested to see what difference it'll make! Power conditioners however, some say they actually make the sound worse.. "Wife #2 appreciates this." Lmao! I wish I could treat my room too, but I live with my parents. A bed, curtains, carpets and a rug will do for me I guess. I've noticed Arcam are never slated around here. Ever!! If only we'd kept our old Arcam Alpha 8/9! "Does size matter? (ASTHETICS, EVERYONE ELSE OUT THERE READY TO POUNCE ON THIS QUESTION!!!!)" Yes. I find size very important for my small room. Thats why I dismissed a possible upgrade to the wharfedale evolution series since they're around 33cm in depth. They'd dominate my room a bit! (its a bedroom). NMyTree. I love queensryche. 'Anybody listening' is a fav. The overture song is quite good too. Infact most of their stuff is amazing. I quite like listening to arcade fire. Neighbourhood 1, 2 and 3, no cars go and others I think are a test because I reccon its quite hard to replicate well in a system. Before I tuned my system, it sounded naff and conjested. Now its quite live sounding and detailed/unconjested. |
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New member Username: NchantedPost Number: 4 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi David L, Don, MR, Michael and NmyTree, I like a warm sound. I hadn't really thought about the size, I have ample space for large speakers. I kinda want a speaker with a dedicated midrange speaker. All the smaller speakers I've listened to, don't seem to have the oompf or warm sound that I like. If anyone can suggest a smaller speaker, Im keen to check it out. I listen to a lot of 70's rock and soft rock, as well as live recordings and a bit of acoustic stuff. I don't mind a bit of heavy rock too!! I've got a budget of approx AUD $2500... I think I can pick the Wharfedales up for under $1000. My room is about 18 feet by 12 feet, but opens onto two hallways (no doors on either) so its kind of open plan at the end away from where the hi fi system will be. The room is carpeted has 2 windows, one with a blind, one with sheer curtains. I have a 5 seater lounge, tv, large 6x6 wall unit, computer desk etc. Along with speakers, leads and the receiver.. what else is needed.. Im such a newbie I don't even know the difference between an amplifier and a receiver!!! Thanks everyone for your great advice. DD |
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Bronze Member Username: SanioSouth Wester... Canada Post Number: 29 Registered: Jul-07 | Yes. I find size very important for my small room. Thats why I dismissed a possible upgrade to the wharfedale evolution series since they're around 33cm in depth. They'd dominate my room a bit! (its a bedroom). Question??? What is the impact of a small room on the acoustics? |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 135 Registered: Aug-04 | Dawn D, 18 x 12 with two open entrances to hallways, should be fine for the Wharfedale Diamond 9.6. If the room was an enclosed room, then, it would be a boarder-line call with the 9.6. I tend to think speakers of that size will do fine in an 18 x 12 with some heavy curtains, carpeting and bass traps in each of the four corners. Some people may consider an enclosed 18 x 12 room to be too small for the 9.6. But I think it's definitely workable and one could get wonderful sound in that situation. When I first got my Wharfedale Opus 2, I was living in a house with an 18.6 x 13.3 living room. I set them up and did a few things to the room. It sounded wonderful. Although, if I cranked the volume knob too high they did over-power the room. But I listen at reasonable volume levels, usually between 9:00 AM and 10:00 AM on the volume knob. If I cranked the volume knob to 11:00 AM -12:00 .....it was way to loud for that room. Which I only did to test the treshold of the room. Like I said, I don't listen to music at extreme levels. Only moderate to slighty above moderate. Go audition the Wharfedale Diamond 9.6 and make sure that they atre what you want. If you end up buying them, that will leave you with $1,500.00 left over; according to your stated budget. Do you already have a CD Player or Universal Disc player that plays CDs and DVDs? We need to know if you already have a source (cd/dvd player), or if part of your budget includes buying one. It's going to be tricky figuring out what would suit you needs, here. You're in Australia and I'm not sure what's avalible in your area. I'm sure there are gear manufactors in your area, that we here in America are not really familiar with. If you were here in the states, there are several options from companies like Outlaw Audio, Van Alstine and a few others; who offer some great deals on amplification, pre amps and Recievers. Thing is, to have them shipped to Australia may very well cancel out the great deal. NAD may be a very good place for you to start. This is the licensed NAD distributer for Australia. Call them and ask for the closest NAD dealer near you. Then call them and check prices on their amps and Receivers: http://www.audioproducts.com.au/brands/nad.html NAD's website: http://nadelectronics.com/index I would say that you want to get a receiver that puts out at least 125 watts per channel, for the Wharfedale 9.6. Ideally, 200 watts or more. But that would take you out of your budget. But 125 watts of quality power, from something like NAD gear, is better than some of the crappy recievers made by other companies that boast more watts; but fall extremely short of that mark. NAD is known for being accurate with their specs and delivering quality power; for their price range. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 136 Registered: Aug-04 | " What is the impact of a small room on the acoustics? " Small rooms cause a mess of reflections bouncing all over the place. The sound waves haven't far to travel and they bounce and reflect back and forth, in a terrible manner. One would have to dampen the room with a lot of acoustic wall, floor and ceiling treatments to absorb the sound waves and reduce/eliminate the reflections. The larger the speaker, the worse it is......in a small room. |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 34 Registered: Aug-07 | Dear Dawn, I am going to get a little teche right now but bear with me. By the the numbers: The Wharfedale 9.6 are 90DB efficient. That means with one (1) watt of power they will produce a SPL (sound presure level) of 90 Desibels of loudness at one (1) meter away from the speaker. If you want a comparison, normal talking voice is 82 Db.( vocal cords have about 4 watts of power) If you double the power you can add 3 Db of sound pressure. ck out the following chart: 1 watt = 90 Db 2 watts = 93 Db 4 watts = 96 Db 8 watts = 99 Db 16 watts = 102 Db 32 watts = 105 Db 64 watts = 108 Db 128 watts =111 Db Etc, Etc. Turning the volume knob to the 12 0:clock position is at the upper limites of the amp. The question is how loud do you pay your music? There is very little connection from how loud something will play and the quality of the sound. It is clear that there a law of dimmishing return for spending on power. ANYTHING in the 80 to 125 range will be more that enough to drive Wharf's 9.6. Now that you have an understanding of power, focus on quality and features. Nad is a good product. So is Denon. Even the Marrantz of late is pretty good. The reason for buying in this range is that most features people want do not show up until you enter this power range. I hope this helps, your friend, Db |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 35 Registered: Aug-07 | Dawn, Sorry I can not help my self. A note about room acoustics: I DO NOT THINK THAT YOU ARE BUILDING A ROOM FOR MUSIC. One feature that is showing up in current product is a reciever that has an acousticial microphone that senses the frequiences in the room. That be it the case, Denon for sure and others have this feature and you can find in the power range that your are purchasing. I let the reciever select the proper settings and then I ajust for my own taste. This might be a better solution for you. I two prefer the (warm) sound and went out with the intentions of doing that. your friend, Db |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 36 Registered: Aug-07 | Dawn. A basic guide to componets: In a hifi system you have these basic componets. AMP- this is the unit that powers the speakers PRE-AMP- This is the control center that all other devices plug into, DVD, Tuner, SAT dish, etc. TUNER- radio Combine the AMP and PRE-AMP into one unit you get an INTRGRATED AMP COMBINE THE INTRGRATED AMP WITH A TUNER YOU GET A RECIEVER These are basic componets. Each of these units have there own specs and unfortunely there is no rules that one is better than another. I am glad that you are seeking this kind of advice. In the old days I would pray for an opportunity like this on thr retail floor. your friend, Db} |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godDoncaster, South Yorkshire England Post Number: 569 Registered: Jan-05 | "The larger the speaker, the worse it is......in a small room." Thanks Tree. I didnt know that but it does make perfect sense. Its noticable in larger rooms that music does sound better. Even in cinemas, a larger cinema room has better acoustics. |
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New member Username: NchantedPost Number: 5 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi everyone, well 3 weeks later and I have purchased a pair of Paradigm Studio 20 v.3 a yamaha AX-497 amplifer and a NAD C525BEE CD player. My ears are suffering from the highs put out by these speakers.. and I also apparently will benefit from a subwoofer. I bought these speakers without auditioning any others, they're hurting my ears (cymbols, tabourine, snare sounds)... Oh Well! I will try working around this. Someone suggested adding a graphic equalizer and trying to reduce the sound that is bothering me. I wonder if choosing a different brand of amp or receiver will help. I have learned so much! Regards Dawn |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8555 Registered: Dec-04 | Dawn, are you listening with the 'pure direct' turned on? |
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New member Username: NchantedPost Number: 6 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi Nuck, I have tried turning the pure direct on and off.. also have turned down the treble.. some sounds are still too harsh for my ears. These very clear speakers are totally different to anything I have listened to ever.. and I wondered at first if I need to adjust to this. Some CDs sound awesome (so long as there's no continuous tick tick tick on the cymbol). One track example that comes to mind is "Everywhere" by Fleetwood Mac.. aaarghhh. I also wonder if its my ears (have been attending Rock Concerts since I was 10 yo - now 42). Most nights when all is silent I hear ringing in my ears (tinitus?). I rarely notice it during the day. The other night after trying to listen to new speakers for an hour or so, my ears were ringing really loudly at sleep time. D |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5322 Registered: Feb-05 | I really believe that you have a mismatch with your speakers and your receiver. Yamaha receivers work well with some speakers and not so well with others. Although the Studio 20's aren't particularly demanding of amps they do sound best with an amp that can deliver a fair amount of good clean current...Yamaha's typically don't deliver that...Also some cd's just don't sound particularly good and the more revealing your system the more you'll hear that. With you ears being the way you describe you may want to move to a warmer sounding amp....Studio 20's are often described as laid back (I personally don't describe them that way, I say neutral, but what do I know) which means that they are not likely to be the source of your problem. Also, what are you using for interconnects and speaker wire? A different amp and a switch to Audioquest or Cardas cables and you should be fine. Someone will likely be along to discuss the room as a factor as well...less hard surfaces and more soft or padded ones....I can hear them coming!!! |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 266 Registered: Feb-07 | This sounds pretty strange. I have a Yamaha RX-497 (which I assume would not sound that much different), and it's anything but harsh. I too listen to it the pure-direct turned on. It could be the speakers. A while back I had Yamaha speakers pair with the 497, and it was just brutal - after 10 minutes of listening I would have a splitting headache. Ditched the Yamaha speakers and hooked my PSBs, and it made a world of difference. This is not to say that I would compare my old Yamaha speakers with the Paradigm Studio 20s! Those are good speakers - maybe a little bit of break-in is required? |
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New member Username: NchantedPost Number: 7 Registered: Aug-07 | Thanks for the input Art. The brand of speaker cable is Gecko (could be an aussie brand) - it came with the speakers and connections are banana plugs. Yes I agree, some CDs do sound much better than others. I kind of thought the amount of time and money Fleetwood Mac spent in studios, and Lindsey Buckinghams perfectionist personality would give good recorded sound. Im certainly not saying its bad, just bad in this situation. (Id be the last person to knock FM). WOW! this is very interesting to hear you call these speakers laid back, this makes me think that there is something wrong with either my set up or my ears! Which amps would you suggest, and would you suggest and receivers? Thanks! Dawn |
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New member Username: NchantedPost Number: 8 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi David. Kinda brutal is what I would say for my ears down here. The speakers were pre-owned and 10 months old, should be already broken-in at a guess. Im going to try changing the cables.. Thanks Dawn |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 451 Registered: Dec-06 | That certainly wouldn't describe the 20's I litened to. They were powered by a Marantz (I don't recall what model). And at another listening I heard them with an Adcom amp. Again, I thought they sounded great. I moved up to the Studio 60's because I wanted a floor stander. I would agree with Art and his comments regarding good clean current to your speaks and Yamaha's ability to deliver that. My $.02 |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5327 Registered: Feb-05 | I would say that an NAD would work fine in that setup, or even a Rega Brio...no remote for the Rega and no FM for either but that's why they the Tivoli table radion, just hook it up to your amp and off you go. More later, time for breakfast. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8557 Registered: Dec-04 | Time for a few acoustic panels in select locations. I don't know how the 20's could be that bright, I am sorry, but I really don't. Even with the Yammy. Cables, yes. Grab some audioquest cables for a quick test. Great cables, low cost and a quick reference.Blue Jeans cables are also attainable. And grab some Auraflex panels right away. Stick a few triangles in the corners. If FM doesn't sound right, don't blame Lindsey. OK blame Mick(pompous azz)but not Bucks. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5329 Registered: Feb-05 | That's why they make the Tivoli table radio's...that's what I meant to say....I wish editing was as easy here as it is on the other site where I spend the bulk of my time. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8559 Registered: Dec-04 | Apologies, my last post was FM= Fleetwood Mack. And yes Art, that is why Tivoli makes the best radios that are commonly available. And can be placed as pieces of art in various locations. |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 54 Registered: Aug-07 | Dawn, Dump the Yamaha. It is a shell of what it used to be. I am in the cable business. Cables will Help (a little) The harshness that you are experiencing is from your Yamaha. The speakers that you have are not forgiving. Meaning to say, they could use a better power source. When Fleetwood released that album I used that sound track to screen out potenical want to be amps. I believe what your are hearing is syblance (for give spelling). Read my last comment on freqency. A graphic eq will help but not make up for your Yamaha. If you are having trouble with Yamaha stay away from Sony. You won't help yourself. your friend, Db |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 353 Registered: Jun-07 | "Nuck- I don't know how the 20's could be that bright, I am sorry, but I really don't" Nuck is right, I have heard the Studio 20's around a dozen times now, not once have they ever been bright. They are a fantastic speaker. Very Neutral, and will sound what your Receiver/Amp/Source will want them to sound like. |
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New member Username: NchantedPost Number: 9 Registered: Aug-07 | Thank you everyone for your great responses to my problem. I forgot to mention I have the speakers on 110cm stands so that the tweeter is way above my ear... at ear level I was ready to leave home after 2 minutes. The more I read from you guys, the more Im wondering if its me and I should ditch these speakers and start over. Im more than happy to ditch the Yamaha, but Im unsure that enough difference will come from changing amps that I will be able to cope with the sounds. I know they are a great speaker, the person I bought them from is devestated that my ears are having trouble. Im gonna check out a subwoofer tomorrow to add with them and this might possibly might change things, in that, the high sounds wont be as obvious? I have no idea really if it will change anything. Big Fleetwood Mac fan here, knowing Lindsey's work is why I wanted to use some of their tracks for my "ear" testing. I would never be happy with a system on which I couldnt enjoy Fleetwood Mac. (I wasn't knocking Lindsey by the way either) Thanks everyone! Dawn |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 354 Registered: Jun-07 | Dawn. It is not the speaker. Change your AMP. It will make a big difference. Yamaha's are going to sound very bright with a Neutral speaker. |
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New member Username: NchantedPost Number: 10 Registered: Aug-07 | HI Nick, Thank you, someone has suggested a NAD.. any model suggestions? Or any other suggestions (brands)? Any reason why I might not put a NAD receiver (for the benefit of having radio) |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 355 Registered: Jun-07 | I am, as most people know on this site, a NAD fan. I just like the sound of their products. I think anything from the C352 integrated amp will be a big improvement. There is lots of stuff out there that will be an improvement though. Not sure what your budget is. What comes first is find a good dealer, and see what they carry. That has probably already been said, but I havnt read the whole thread yet. Sorry. Cheers. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8573 Registered: Dec-04 | NAD has just released a whole new series of receivers, any of which might relieve youe fatigue, Dawn. I do not know the delivery dates or pricing. Hit their website for info. BTW, H/K aint bad either. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8574 Registered: Dec-04 | Dawn, thats like 3 responses that say the 20's ain't the problem. This enire issue might be put to bed if you pay attention to your ROOM. See the problem with room treatment is that it doesn't come in a box. It has no rating, and doesn't plug in. It has no pizzazz.No sax appeal. But treating your listening environment is the most important part of this hobby. You feel the need to replace properly working gear with more stuff, but in the same room. Dawn, please stand back and look at your room. It ain't the Yammy. |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 356 Registered: Jun-07 | Good point. Yammy, or no Yammy. It isnt the speakers either.lol. |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 11 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi Nuck, Thanks for the info on the NAD amps, I'll check out their website. Its not easy to find a dealer here, there are only 10 hi-fi shops in greater Sydney now, and well you generally find one sells a few brands and another sells a different few brands. So it isn't easy to become a "loyal" customer. So tomorrow I will go and listen to same speakers in a hi-fi store 1.5 hours away, so I can hear them with an subwoofer, but I cannot listen to or buy a NAD amp from him because he doesn't sell that brand. The guy who sells NAD Amps doesn't sell Paradigm speakers etc. and none of their listening rooms will sound like my room anyway! ugh!!! I don't know what I can do to significantly change my room as it isnt a dedicated music room, it serves many other purposes, its a loungeroom, a computer room, a reading room, kitchen dining and listening room! Its carpeted with a 5 seater sofa, many other items icluding.. a glass computer desk, a wall unit full of books lps nick-nacks, 2 x windows. For the uninitiated newbie in hi-fi, I have no idea what affects these items will have, but I can't change the room all that much.. its all a tight squeeze! Im willing to do some inexpensive experiments if you can suggest any. One window (behind stereo) has a pull down blind. The other window directy at end of room from speakers, has kitchen cafe curtains (barely any cover because I love my sunshine). Regards Dawn Regards Dawn |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 359 Registered: Jun-07 | Dawn- Head out to a few Dealers, and pick one that gives you top notch service. I mean the kind of guys that don't care if your in there to buy a 50 dollar cable or a 50,000 dollar set-up, and they still treat you with the respect and courtesy that you should have. Let us know what you hear the speakers on. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8578 Registered: Dec-04 | Dawn, how are your walls treated? I mean, are they painted plaster with no art? The softening effect can be dramatic(my approach) or subtle (everybody with taste). The corners should be treated with triangular fixtures, to deny the high frewuencies the space to bounce around. The idea is to first recognize the acoustics, then to make the waves react to your room, to your liking. If you cannot control the soundwaves and recognize them, then you cannot make them to react in your room the way you want them to. Go to the market and get some burlap(hope you dont have to buy 50 lbs of spuds.) Put 14" triangles of it in each square corner of your room, and hang it with stick pins. Take a big 36" square and put it right behind your listening position. Take another sack and cut it to about 36" high and 24" wide and tack it on both walls about a foot in front of the speakers relative to your listening seat. Your room now sounds like poo. Now start removing pieces. When it sounds about right, look for some interesting pieces to replace the crap that I suggested. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1562 Registered: Nov-05 | Dawn your room doesn't sound overly bright by your description, but I agree it's not the speakers. I think too a NAD amp might help here, but also things could get better with a bit more run in time. Make sure your speakers aren't refecting sound from glass or smooth surfaces, try different speaker placement (and toe in) etc and good heavy stands. |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 55 Registered: Aug-07 | Dearest Dawn, I agree with Nick. I am becomming a NAD fan. Entry level units are around 650 US. Reference: women are more succepible to higher frequences (us guys don;t listen anyway) gl your friend, Db |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 12 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi Nuck, The walls are painted plaster, one wall is 60% covered by the Ikea wall unit and the speakers are facing towards the window all be it 6 metres away (this is the window that is barely covered. The glass computer table is right by the left speaker and this is where I am often sitting. Im thinking burlap is probably what we call hessian.. I'll google it. Great advice though.. Im gonna fiddle about over the coming weeks with this idea. If I clap my hands in the room there isn't much echo, perhaps there is more up towards the glass window where there is vinyl floor covering. If a NAD amp, subwoofer and room treatment dont work.. I guess then it IS my ears and I just have to sell speakers and buy something duller. I really appreciate every moment you all have taken to offer these great suggestions. Regards Dawn |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 13 Registered: Aug-07 | Nuck, there are two largish framed photographs (Martha Davis and Stevie Nicks) on the wall behind the speakers. Im hoping these aren't causing me issues. |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 14 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi MR, My speaker stands weigh 40 kilo's each.. BIG STRONG HEAVY STEEL SUCKERS (at 110cm high to get the tweeters away from my ears!!) Thanks Dawn |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1565 Registered: Nov-05 | Dawn, with a little sticky tape and tissue, carefully try a layer over the tweeter, then if needed, more layers. Maybe this might help the ears and bank account. Cheers. |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 56 Registered: Aug-07 | Dawn, Did you by your speakers new? Db |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5330 Registered: Feb-05 | Don't think I would try the tape job...too risky. If it isn't the room then it's the amp and/or cables...not likely to be the speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mekongdelta69Grew up in Brooklyn an... Post Number: 76 Registered: Apr-07 | Dawn, "Most nights when all is silent I hear ringing in my ears (tinitus?). I rarely notice it during the day. The other night after trying to listen to new speakers for an hour or so, my ears were ringing really loudly at sleep time." >> Yes, you absolutely have tinnitus. I would highly suggest you make an appointment with an otolaryngologist (ear, nose, throat specialist). He'll check your auditory nerves, inner ear, middle ear, eardrum, ear infection, etc., etc. -- or something as simple as ear wax build up (I don't want to get into it here -- or should I say, "hear"! Sorry - bad joke). It can have an effect much more than simple ringing and not hearing your speakers 'correctly' might be the least of your problems. To keep this short, just make an app't. ASAP -- Trust me... Mike_____ . |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 15 Registered: Aug-07 | MR - a guy in a department store suggested put foam in front of the tweeter (between speaker box and grille) Don - The speakers are 10 months old Art - Im definitely going to upgrade cables and amp this weekend Mike - You've got me scared!!!! but yes these speakers have brought to light, possible reasons to visit ENT Specialist SOON! |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 57 Registered: Aug-07 | Dawn, The reason I ask the question is that your speakers are way out of line for you to have this problem. I suppect that thoes are not the orignal tweeters. I have heard these speakers many times and they not that bright. Did you buy then 2nd party or from a store? Please take your Fleetwood Mac - CD with you and ck other speakers and compare. Women have trouble with frequenices 13 to 15000. I have had that happen to me before. Your Friend, Db |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 16 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi Don, I do believe that the speakers have not been tampered with. I bought them from a very nice guy on an Aussie forum who purchased them directly from a hi-fi store who hold Paradigm in very high regard and sold them to me 10 months later due to an upgrade. He loved the speakers and is devestated that I am having trouble with them. Thanks Dawn |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 460 Registered: Dec-06 | Go listen to them at his place. |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 58 Registered: Aug-07 | Dearest Dawn, Based on our years of friendship (lol), Dump the Yamaha. This really is a mid-level product at best. One of our local dealers has it on sale for 225 US. In the day, they were a flagship product under the Yamaha mortor umbrella. Once they were spun off into thier own unit, the quality went right out the door. Your speakers are talking to you they are saying "HELP" No No No. The NAD is a fine product, not cheap. Try the Denon especially one with a built in sound anaylizer. That should correct your high frequiency imbalance. It this does not work; you have an execptional ear and it is time to pony up. Make sure you can retun the Denon if you do not like it. best of luck, your friend, Db |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 17 Registered: Aug-07 | Thanks Don, Im taking the whole lot back to the store it was purchased today.. and will talk to them about solutions. Thanks! Dawn |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 462 Registered: Dec-06 | Best of luck to you, Dawn. Let us know how this shakes out, huh? Those speakers really do sound nice. And I learned something here too.....I did not have nearly enough Fleetwood Mac in my collection. Problem solved. Thank you. |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 18 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi everyone, I took my speakers and amp to the shop that sells Paradigm. Firstly they played me their Paradigm Studio 20 v.4... sounded brilliant. They then hooked mine up and they sounded great too. We then put my amp and my interconnects into the mix and it didn't sound too bad... there was some difference when we changed the leads. So, Im thinking perhaps I need to exchange my NAD CD player, it could be that that is making the speakers bright. I did bring home with me a subwoofer, and things are sounding ok here. Ive got stuff all over the place and Im waiting for a cabinet. So after it arrives next weekend. I'll be able to set everything up properly and have a real good listen. I bought some speaker cable from the guy and tried making up my own leads, crapped out at trimming the coating off the leads and will have another go tonight after having purchased some wire strippers. This cable is only $6 per metre, and it was all he had.. he also only had some skinny stuff that he sold me to go with the subwoofer which I have plugged into my "B" speaker outlets. Any suggestion on better cable for my subwoofer? Thanks for listening. Regards Dawn |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 376 Registered: Jun-07 | Dawn D- Did the dealer say it might be your NAD cd player. Ive never heard a NAD cd player sound bright. Just curious. |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 19 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi Nick, No, he didn't say it was the NAD player, Im looking for answers and in my situation it may not be the player for me. Im also thinking of changing to Rotel gear. regards Dawn |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 59 Registered: Aug-07 | Dawn You need better wire for your sub. Thin wire just won'y hold the signal. Make sure that your wires are all the same lenghts. What amp did the dealerh ook up to your speakers/ Db |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5340 Registered: Feb-05 | Rotel has good synergy with Paradigm and B&W speakers. The Rotel RA 1062 is a good little integrated amp that with an RCD 1072 cd player and audioquest cables should make for a pleasant listening experience. Does your dealer carry B&W speakers...that may be another direction as well...especially with Rotel. |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 20 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi Don, He hooked it up to a YAMAHA Home Theatre receiver Regards Dawn |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 377 Registered: Jun-07 | Rotel and Paradigm do make a very good combo. But if Dawn is hearing his 20's as very bright sounding, should Rotel be the way to go? Or something more warm or dark sounding? |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 21 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi Art, WOW, this is sounding good. Well, no there are no dealers around here at all, and I wont be returning to the one I went to on Saturday. Wondering why this particular dealer sold me really thin speaker wire to hook up the Subwoofer, what do you guys use? Regards Dawn |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 60 Registered: Aug-07 | Dawn, If they hooked up a yamaha reciecer fron the same series, then your yamaha is not the problem unless it is defective. Since your problem seems to be with only certin recordings, I would recommend a grapgic equalizer. I use one in my system and it does make a difference. Please give the denon a shot. It has a built in eq and should stop your problem. Best of luck! Db |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 61 Registered: Aug-07 | Dawn, I am in the cable business and it would be wrong to promote my own brand. 16 gage wire or better for sub double shield if in your budget. Db |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 62 Registered: Aug-07 | Good call on the the Rotel Nick is right I think you find the rotel bright. Db |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 22 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi Don, I really have no idea what 16 gauge wire is. Is it the same wire I use for my normal speakers? I have someone looking out for a graphic equaliser for me, they are rare as hens teeth round here. I thought I read yesterday that Rotel is warm.. Im very confused.. what brands are warm? Regards Daw |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 63 Registered: Aug-07 | Dawn, Warm is a relitive statement. What is warm to you may not be to me or any one else. Next Saturday I will be making my rounds in Southern California. I will take a listen to your speakers. Wire is measured in gage. the smaller the number the bigger the wire. Please ck out Monster Cable web site and you will have a good basic understanding of wire and cables. The differences are spelled out clearly. Good graphic eq's are are 10 bands on each side. I own Luxman and I have a good one. About 100 US on ebay. Your Friend, Db |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 23 Registered: Aug-07 | Thanks Don! Regards Dawn |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 378 Registered: Jun-07 | Dawn, I don't think Rotel is warm to anybody. Detailed,forward,and a raise in the treble department. Very nice stuff though. NAD is warm,laid back,with a raise in the bass department. Both are good, what sound u prefer is of course up to u. |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 24 Registered: Aug-07 | Nick, I appreciate your comments. Thanks so much. Dawn |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 379 Registered: Jun-07 | np Dawn, is possible have a listen to both. Let us know what you decide.Cheers. |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 380 Registered: Jun-07 | np Dawn, is possible have a listen to both. Let us know what you decide.Cheers. |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 25 Registered: Aug-07 | Saturday morning Im off to listen at a hi-fi shop just over 1 hour away.. they told me to bring my speakers, so hopefully they will be more accepting than last week's effort. After reading all these great emails from you guys, it sounds like the NAD will be the warmest and I should stick with my NAD CD player.. perhaps throw the NAD C352 into the mix. Or is there anything worthwhile from ARCAM under US$650 |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 64 Registered: Aug-07 | Dearest Dawn, I have reviewed the following 3 recievers. After being in this business for 30 plus years I understand budget. Reievers; NAD = T 763 at 1300 us Rotel = RSX 1057 at 1299 us Denon = ARV 2307- ci at 799 us The NAD is sweet at 1300 a bit pricy a good value Rotel at 1300 just below Denon at 799 smoken deal! The Nad is a tad (I mean a tad) warmer and friendly. but at double the price of the denon no way. All of these recievers are 5.1 and have HDMI and great features. The Denon has the built in eq for adjustments. You will need a mike to plug into it for calibration. These are surround sound units that will deliver 5.1 and they work well for stereo. If your just buying a stero unit I will be glad to do more research. Best of Luck, your friend, Db |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 26 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi everyone, I have take the Yamaha out of my system and installed a NAD C352... ALL FIXED!!!!!!!! Whodathunkit? Thank you one and all for your input.. I just have to find the best way to connect my subwoofer (Yamaha YST-SW515) currently plugged into preout 1 with "y" RCA plugs.. possibly this is my best option! Thanks again everyone. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1588 Registered: Nov-05 | Idathunkit! Good one Dawn, congrats. |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 27 Registered: Aug-07 | Thanks MR!!!! d |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8645 Registered: Dec-04 | http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/av/english/sub/YST-SW515_en_UB_rev-1.pdf Just in case your manual went astray, Dawn. There are a couple of sub connection options in there. I like the speaker level bare wire connections, meself. |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 65 Registered: Aug-07 | Dearest Dawn, I am glad you are happy. I like the people on this site and I believe they speak from the heart. We have your back! Good luck, your friends Db- et all |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 399 Registered: Jun-07 | Congrats Dawn, good pick up. How does it sound to you now? Obviously not bright? How would you describe the speakers with the C352? |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 28 Registered: Aug-07 | HI Nick, I'd like to give you a great explanation on how the speakers sound, but being so new, and having not listened to any other gear other than what I've purchased, I really don't know the terminology to use. I find now that the vocals are more upfront, the highs (cymbol, snare, tambourine) sounds are lovely. The bass is good I would say for bookshelves although I have nothing to compare to. Subwoofer obviously helps here. Some recordings are just bad!!! I've learned that for sure. I was listening last night to Jewel's "This Way" to my ears, its very well recorded. The Fleetwood Mac Very Best Of... is not so good.. distortion at certain points in the recording, which is most disappointing - things I never knew existed before I purchased some decent gear. Thanks again everyone! Dawn |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5358 Registered: Feb-05 | Hope your system is sounding excellent Dawn. I've had a difficult time in responding timely on your thread...I lost someone dear to me in June who was Dawn D and she was just 43 yrs old. Guess it just seemed a bit freaky to me. Enjoy your music. |
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Bronze Member Username: NchantedPost Number: 29 Registered: Aug-07 | Hi Art, That must have been quite a shock to see my post... I too am in my 43rd year and I agree,it is very freaky. You did respond, and thanks for your input. I'll be thinking of your friend (my namesake) now, when I listen. Take care Dawn |
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